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Old 09-26-2012, 06:18 PM   #176 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR View Post
RTF does not seem to have all users interest in mind.
That...is impossible. As I pointed out earlier...not everyone has the same agenda. On the Little Sluice issue...probably 10% want it big, 10% want it back to 1990 and 80% don't care either way.

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Do any of the RTF board members have 42"+ tires? Do any of them run the Box on a regular basis?
Several do...but I don't think they wheel the box....but I don't think that matters....I'm fighting for it....within reason, and I had my BOX experience taken away by someone in 1991...without any public input.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:46 PM   #177 (permalink)
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No, Ryan, I'm dead serious. You've asked questions and blasted others for not providing answers... I simply picked up YOUR questions and asked them of someone ELSE who appears to have knowledge and a position, and seems to be representing... well, someone... hell, Ryan, can you answer your own questions, since it seems like you're in on this particular smokey back room as well?
* What are you advocating to go watch on Friday?
* Where will rock be thrown and to what end? (what's the goal?)
* Who are you speaking for here?
* What are the phases and scope of operations?
You seem to have an awful lot of information that you aren't sharing with trail users, all while blasting others for ... wait for it... not sharing information. If you know about the schedule and scope of the work, why haven't you posted details here, why are you keeping it from the people?

There's not enough details to have a decent discussion and address the actual Little Sluice issues. Finger-pointing and personal attacks are simpler than substantive discussion.

I am calling all of you out; I challenge you. State the facts and quit picking and choosing what you'll say and to whom. SPILL.

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Old 09-26-2012, 06:54 PM   #178 (permalink)
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There's other 4x4 trails in Eldo, the land of many uses, like....um...

Barr......uh...no that's closed
Deer va..... Uh, no that's closed...mostly
Bassi..... Uh....no. closed
Long C..... Oh. Not that one either. Closed
Strawberry? That's open now right? Drove my stock yj on that before....


Well we could just winter wheel on forest roads....

Uh....no. forgot. Those are all closed during the winter.

Well. I hope people start waking up pretty soon when it comes to landuse issues.
Camo rigs and run from the 5.0! BTW I wanted to talk to you about a ticket I got in the Stanislaus for being off trail.


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Old 09-26-2012, 06:55 PM   #179 (permalink)
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I think I've seen people talk about what portion of users wants this or that.
Some people say most folks want the box AS IS. Some folks say that's not true, that a ton of people want it smashed.

Well, the most recent poll has overwhelming numbers:
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/rubic...uice-poll.html

Just thought I'd toss this in here to provide some numbers and stats for what "THE PEOPLE" really want. When I say "the people", I mean normal people that care about the trail and have internet and voice their opinions. I am not talking about people that hide and stay quiet, vote in secret, have lots of money/power and can bend things to their own selfish agenda despite screwing over MOST users of the trail.

THE PEOPLE. Everyday normal folks, most of them don't have buggies or 44s, yet they still want it to stay AS IS.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:58 PM   #180 (permalink)
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So my question is this, is there not someone on this board who is a CA BAR member that can file a injunction to get this stopped and forced back to public input?
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:02 PM   #181 (permalink)
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:27 PM   #182 (permalink)
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I sar something.....

Erickson's dump box went by Cheesecamp Road on a trailer at 12:23 pm today.

And Randy, Bebe is a private citizen with no affiliation to RTF (just ask John), so she owes no duty to disclose squat to you or anyone else about what she may or may not be up to. On the other hand, Ken, as an RTF Board Member can probably tell you all about his recent back-ending episode in detail. But, do us all a favor and have him take it off the board.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:31 PM   #183 (permalink)
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So my question is this, is there not someone on this board who is a CA BAR member that can file a injunction to get this stopped and forced back to public input?
There was public input...2 years ago in chambers with the BOS.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:32 PM   #184 (permalink)
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Everything I know has been posted.
I have not chosen to stand up for you and taken money to do so, when I do, you will be entitled to know everything, all the time.

Your still being a Dumbass.
Enough energy wasted on you already, you have nothing constructive or productive to say, nor are you of importance to the issue at hand.

RTF, please contain your pet's they are hurting your credibility.


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No, Ryan, I'm dead serious. You've asked questions and blasted others for not providing answers... I simply picked up YOUR questions and asked them of someone ELSE who appears to have knowledge and a position, and seems to be representing... well, someone... hell, Ryan, can you answer your own questions, since it seems like you're in on this particular smokey back room as well?
* What are you advocating to go watch on Friday?
* Where will rock be thrown and to what end? (what's the goal?)
* Who are you speaking for here?
* What are the phases and scope of operations?
You seem to have an awful lot of information that you aren't sharing with trail users, all while blasting others for ... wait for it... not sharing information. If you know about the schedule and scope of the work, why haven't you posted details here, why are you keeping it from the people?

There's not enough details to have a decent discussion and address the actual Little Sluice issues. Finger-pointing and personal attacks are simpler than substantive discussion.

I am calling all of you out; I challenge you. State the facts and quit picking and choosing what you'll say and to whom. SPILL.

Randii
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:34 PM   #185 (permalink)
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There was public input...2 years ago in chambers with the BOS.
There were two ... And they were both shams....ever whatever.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:37 PM   #186 (permalink)
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There was public input...2 years ago in chambers with the BOS.
Yea because they really listened to what people had to say. :rollseyes:



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Old 09-26-2012, 07:39 PM   #187 (permalink)
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I had my BOX experience taken away by someone in 1991...without any public input.
*You've been in the box since then and posted pictures.
*The baypass allows you to travel past this point, it is not stopping anyone that has made it that far.
*Until the rocks fell there, it was not an experience, just a part of the trail with a name.
*Its been 20 years since then, get over it.
*The .10% that want it returned still have the rest of the 20 something miles of trail to enjoy, even easier now thanks to RMK. They are only being selfish and for no reason.

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Old 09-26-2012, 07:43 PM   #188 (permalink)
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For the record, RTF is a small group of people that run a nonprofit org dedicated to the Rubicon. That does not mean that this August body does work on the trail. That is for the Friends of the Rubicon to accomplish. We are 15 members only and do not have the wherewithal to accomplish much physical work . Many of our Directors do attend FOTR work parties!

This group of volunteers does so because of a love for the trail and a belief in public motorized access. Whether or not we each want a personal agenda to go one way or the other, we have a responsibility to uphold the positions of the board as a whole. If we make a decision to support a tire size or make a purchase or whatever, each member has the responsibility to uphold that decision. I have not agreed with every decision made by the board, but do my best to follow what we decide.

The position on Little Sluice is plainly here for people to see. That is what we have to go by. I can give you a personal opinion, but it is no more or less than any other opinion that anyone might have.

That said, I do believe that RTF has been actively working as it presents itself, on issues with the Sluice. I know that many hours have been spent within the last few days on this. John, stated the goal of trying to manage the reduction level of the rocks. When the County made a decision back in Jan 2010 after all public comment was made, the hands of the public, FOTR, RTF and the enviro were tied. Is there new information? Well, I can tell you I was not the first to know about the rock drop. Beyond that, this has been known and discussed here in depth since 2004. The whole tire size issue, newbies, idiots, buggies, stockers etc etc. that horse has been weighed, measured and found wanting.

We have a ton of stuff we are working on. Fund raising has become a year round effort now. We have created a committee structure to invite outside help and we have been getting some! We have been active with political issues and the Water Board. The recent easement process was a huge win for trail users! We still have year round access. We have started to get some swag out there for people to show their support.

The biggest thing we do is education. We have two paid contractors out on the trail making contacts and educating. People still poop and leave it, still go the wrong way at times, still break and make a mess, but we are making a difference. Many pack out their poop, stay on the trail and clean up if they have an accident.

We have submitted a request for an easement to the 317 parcel purchased in 2010 and have high hopes for good news soon! We have submitted REAL science to the fs regarding Ellis Creek and the crossing at Buck Island. We were instrumental in getting the forest to ADD roads to the map around Buck so people can camp and park nearby.

Note how many of these things do not revolve around actual work to the trail itself. FOTR is there when work is needed to be done as was done last weekend on the Postpile. FOTR people helped build a repeater system for Ham radio that has SAVED lives on the trail. Mine included! Ask Notpretty about that story. Yes, I was dumb, but lucky.

I run 42 tires on my rig. The last time I went through the Sluice was while it was on 37 back in 200? Do I think that the experience of the trail is important? Rolling over big rocks in the most beautiful place in the world is why I do what I do.

Endorse an occupation? I, Scott Johnston can not do that. I have learned that many more flies can be caught with honey than with vinegar. That is where the BOD of RTF is working and will continue to work. As long as there is a trail and a working relation with the County, there is no reason to do otherwise. If there is a need I really feel that the board would fight in court very emphatically to keep the trail open. The fight for access is that important. The fight for recreation is different, but also important. Recreation is an experience, a feeling, an emotion. It is a slippery slope, one that can go one way or another because it is so fleeting as an ideal. Care needs to be taken to not jump off a bridge ,but to cross it.


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Old 09-26-2012, 07:44 PM   #189 (permalink)
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Well, the most recent poll has overwhelming numbers:
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/rubic...uice-poll.html
OOF, damn those facts!
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:47 PM   #190 (permalink)
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i believe back when it was decided to RESIZE LITTLE SLUICE ther was no approved bypass. now there is one, so we have a new argument to keep LS the way it is
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:10 PM   #191 (permalink)
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i believe back when it was decided to RESIZE LITTLE SLUICE ther was no approved bypass. now there is one, so we have a new argument to keep LS the way it is
That has been the argument since 2010, still and always will be valid.


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Old 09-26-2012, 08:14 PM   #192 (permalink)
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That has been the argument since 2010, still and always will be valid.
That's good news!
So is RTF attempting to use this argument to stop any alterations?
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:15 PM   #193 (permalink)
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Look at this crap.

LOOK AT YOURSELVES.

Seriously

Look in the mirror
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:21 PM   #194 (permalink)
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There's other 4x4 trails in Eldo, the land of many uses, like....um...

Barr......uh...no that's closed
Deer va..... Uh, no that's closed...mostly
Bassi..... Uh....no. closed
Long C..... Oh. Not that one either. Closed
Strawberry? That's open now right? Drove my stock yj on that before....


Well we could just winter wheel on forest roads....

Uh....no. forgot. Those are all closed during the winter.

Well. I hope people start waking up pretty soon when it comes to landuse issues.
I agree 100% I have been doing my best to get as many people involved in land use as I can. Yea thats right, the 20 year old you guys think "Shits in the woods, doesn't clean up his trash, and doesn't respect the trail". Sadly thats hardly the case.

Since I never got a chance to wheel half those trails on that list, my goal has been to make the most out of the Rubicon and do whatever I can to save it! I have built my Jeep up so I can go places other people cant, and love watching guys wheel the sluice knowing someday that will be me. Heck, the best part about the Rubicon is the trail diversity. Its fun.. well was.. on both 32's and 42's.

When does this all end? The "party" reason is BS in my opinion. Every other weekend I went up to the box and people were cleaning up after themselves, crapping in bags, and using spill kits when needed. I had no idea what a wag bag was until I was handed one on the trail. Didn't know what a spill kit was either until I saw somebody use it. Now I carry multiple of both as well as a trasharoo for trash (not just mine).

EDUCATION IS KEY!

...... I know this post is more of a rant, but I want to stand up for the younger crowd and show everybody that we care too. Im tired of the stereotype that is laid upon us. We want/need to be heard too!
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:21 PM   #195 (permalink)
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That's good news!
So is RTF attempting to use this argument to stop any alterations?
Duh, yes. We have a position that states some work should be done along with all the other stuff from the FOTR plan from 09


Not effectively though.



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Old 09-26-2012, 08:24 PM   #196 (permalink)
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I agree 100% I have been doing my best to get as many people involved in land use as I can. Yea thats right, the 20 year old you guys think "Shits in the woods, doesn't clean up his trash, and doesn't respect the trail". Sadly thats hardly the case.

Since I never got a chance to wheel half those trails on that list, my goal has been to make the most out of the Rubicon and do whatever I can to save it! I have built my Jeep up so I can go places other people cant, and love watching guys wheel the sluice knowing someday that will be me. Heck, the best part about the Rubicon is the trail diversity. Its fun.. well was.. on both 32's and 42's.

When does this all end? The "party" reason is BS in my opinion. Every other weekend I went up to the box and people were cleaning up after themselves, crapping in bags, and using spill kits when needed. I had no idea what a wag bag was until I was handed one on the trail. Didn't know what a spill kit was either until I saw somebody use it. Now I carry multiple of both as well as a trasharoo for trash (not just mine).

EDUCATION IS KEY!

...... I know this post is more of a rant, but I want to stand up for the younger crowd and show everybody that we care too. Im tired of the stereotype that is laid upon us. We want/need to be heard too!
Thank you!!


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Old 09-26-2012, 08:34 PM   #197 (permalink)
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Duh, yes. We have a position that states some work should be done along with all the other stuff from the FOTR plan from 09
Thats good news but...and this is an honest question....How does that work with Sweeney on the RTF board?

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Not effectively though.
Damn
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:44 PM   #198 (permalink)
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well, instead of getting into an internet argument ........... we closed down the shop today and went up to run the little sluice one more time before it gets blown to smithereens.

there was virtually nobody on the trail, only a few DOT guys and two other rigs as well as our buddy John Pardi who was stationed at the sluice.

we ran the sluice three times. it's pretty gnarly. ran the soup bowl on the way in also.

had a great time, the weather was fantastic, so was the trail. and now there's a sign on each end of the little sluice saying it's closed ( for a few days ).


a day well spent.........


georg
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:08 PM   #199 (permalink)
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The Board of Supervisors, who has govenring power over the trail, sees LS as an attractive nuisance...THAT is the reason rock size is being reduced. Not defending them or attacking you, just want the record to be correct.
That term: "attractive nuisance". That's a weird choice of words.

Can anyone tell me what the BOSs exact definition of an "attractive nuisance" is so we can avoid it in the future? If that is the reason for the change in the box....what EXACTLY does that term mean? What is the critera for something to be labeled an attractive nuisance?
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:12 PM   #200 (permalink)
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well, instead of getting into an internet argument ........... we closed down the shop today and went up to run the little sluice one more time before it gets blown to smithereens.

there was virtually nobody on the trail, only a few DOT guys and two other rigs as well as our buddy John Pardi who was stationed at the sluice.

we ran the sluice three times. it's pretty gnarly. ran the soup bowl on the way in also.

had a great time, the weather was fantastic, so was the trail. and now there's a sign on each end of the little sluice saying it's closed ( for a few days ).


a day well spent.........


georg
Wow! Great story and thanks for sharing. Signs posted at LS means its about to get real did you take any pics? Sounds like a freakin great day, wish I could make it up this week but work consumes me. Guess the next time I see it I'll be in 2wd.
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