Little Sluice - Page 9 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Land Use and Trails > Rubicon Trail
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-26-2012, 09:14 PM   #201 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 17,122
yup, had a FANTASTIC day up there! took a bunch of pics, but i don't have a star on here anymore........but i'll email a few if somebody wants to post them.


georg
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 09:17 PM   #202 (permalink)
Need an LS
 
Kurtuleas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Member # 23188
Location: Discovery Bay, CA
Posts: 16,210
Blog Entries: 1
I asked that question not to be an a**h*ole.... But if my specific type of recreation is being taken away becuase of such a wishy-washy term, I need to know the exact defintion of it.

If I am grading a project in my class, I can't just say its an "A". I need a rubric to gauge it by.

Is an attractive nuisence something that draws a lot people and has a party atmosphere? How many people would it take to be considered one? What's the legal definition of a party atmosphere? Must there also be resourse damage for something to be labeled as an attractive nuisence? Loud noise? Drinking?
__________________
KEEP PUBLIC LANDS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC

Last edited by Kurtuleas; 09-26-2012 at 09:19 PM.
Kurtuleas is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 09-26-2012, 09:19 PM   #203 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Member # 148059
Posts: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtuleas View Post
That term: "attractive nuisance". That's a weird choice of words.

Can anyone tell me what the BOSs exact definition of an "attractive nuisance" is so we can avoid it in the future? If that is the reason for the change in the box....what EXACTLY does that term mean? What is the critera for something to be labeled an attractive nuisance?
Attractive nuisance probably means that too many people like it.. Therefore it must be destroyed.

Wheelers are as a group under attack.
Stonebone is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2012, 09:24 PM   #204 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,542
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangefj45 View Post
yup, had a FANTASTIC day up there! took a bunch of pics, but i don't have a star on here anymore........but i'll email a few if somebody wants to post them.


georg
Bebehumr at gmail dot com. I'll upload them to my photobucket

Thank you for the report on your day.
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars???
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL

Last edited by Bebe; 09-26-2012 at 09:24 PM.
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 09:25 PM   #205 (permalink)
FOF
 
kdub0013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Member # 103588
Location: Garden Valley, CA
Posts: 8,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangefj45 View Post
yup, had a FANTASTIC day up there! took a bunch of pics, but i don't have a star on here anymore........but i'll email a few if somebody wants to post them.


georg
I'm down and ill post them for ya if you like [email protected] I think many folks would like to see sluice in its final stages before its demise.
__________________
COMBAT VET - USMC 01-05

FRIENDS OF FORDYCE
kdub0013 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 09:28 PM   #206 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,542
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
Wow - is it ignorance on the County's part - or Manipulation of the facts???

Quote:
In the law of torts, the attractive nuisance doctrine states that a landowner may be held liable for injuries to children trespassing on the land if the injury is caused by a hazardous object or condition on the land that is likely to attract children who are unable to appreciate the risk posed by the object or condition. The doctrine has been applied to hold landowners liable for injuries caused by abandoned cars, piles of lumber or sand, trampolines, and swimming pools. However, it can be applied to virtually anything on the property of the landowner.
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars???
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 09:34 PM   #207 (permalink)
Need an LS
 
Kurtuleas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Member # 23188
Location: Discovery Bay, CA
Posts: 16,210
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebe View Post
Wow - is it ignorance on the County's part - or Manipulation of the facts???
So an attracive nuisence is specifically geared toward children? Huh....

Edit: how is it possible to trespass on a public, county road?
__________________
KEEP PUBLIC LANDS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC

Last edited by Kurtuleas; 09-26-2012 at 09:36 PM.
Kurtuleas is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 09:37 PM   #208 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 17,122
Sent ya a few pics bebe. Thanks in advance.

Georg
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 09:38 PM   #209 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
cruzila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6650
Location: Garden Valley
Posts: 5,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR View Post
Thats good news but...and this is an honest question....How does that work with Sweeney on the RTF board?



Damn
You are assuming that agreement is a requirement for working. It is not. Pretty simple.


Sent from my cool iPad I won at the Rock Zombie rig wash!
__________________
Scott Johnston
Rubicon Trail Foundation
Founding Director
Past President 2010-2012
Retired Director 2004-2013
ReElected RTF Director Dec 2017

cruzila is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 09:42 PM   #210 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member # 95522
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtuleas View Post
That term: "attractive nuisance". That's a weird choice of words.

Can anyone tell me what the BOSs exact definition of an "attractive nuisance" is so we can avoid it in the future? If that is the reason for the change in the box....what EXACTLY does that term mean? What is the critera for something to be labeled an attractive nuisance?
Thanks for asking that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebe View Post
In the law of torts, the attractive nuisance doctrine states that a landowner may be held liable for injuries to children trespassing on the land if the injury is caused by a hazardous object or condition on the land that is likely to attract children who are unable to appreciate the risk posed by the object or condition. The doctrine has been applied to hold landowners liable for injuries caused by abandoned cars, piles of lumber or sand, trampolines, and swimming pools. However, it can be applied to virtually anything on the property of the landowner.
And thanks for answering.

It looks like it was quite a stretch using that term. Remind me not to use whatever lawyers couldn't handle that one. I'm sure it's too late now, but this should have been hard to push through with such a lame reason.

Last edited by Brizzman; 09-26-2012 at 09:44 PM.
Brizzman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 09:42 PM   #211 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,542
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtuleas View Post
So an attracive nuisence is specifically geared toward children? Huh....

Edit: how is it possible to trespass on a public, county road?
It's not...it's a ruse.
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars???
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 09:48 PM   #212 (permalink)
Need an LS
 
Kurtuleas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Member # 23188
Location: Discovery Bay, CA
Posts: 16,210
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebe View Post
It's not...it's a ruse.
Or they have thier own definiton for that term. Does it have to be the one posted above?
__________________
KEEP PUBLIC LANDS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC
Kurtuleas is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 10:08 PM   #213 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Member # 347
Location: Fair Oaks, CA
Posts: 9,588
I respectfully disagree, Craig, especially when private citizens appear to be representing more than just themselves; accountability should follow.
I'd like to see the details in the sunlight ...or we could just let this be ugly infighting, accusations without information, suspicions without substance.

Ryan, I doubt that everything you know has been posted, and truly hope I'm wrong. If you know more than has been posted, it would be the worst sort of hypocrisy.

Randii (not in the LS planning 'loop' and just fine with that)
randii is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 10:14 PM   #214 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
speedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Member # 19392
Location: Auburn Ca.
Posts: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtuleas View Post
Or they have thier own definiton for that term. Does it have to be the one posted above?
"Not in my back yard"
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Bebe's"On Board Mechanic"
speedy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 10:16 PM   #215 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,542
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe




Thanks Georg
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars???
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 10:23 PM   #216 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member # 13807
Location: Petaluma, CA
Posts: 14,909
Send a message via AIM to Crash440
closed?????

I F-ing knew if this went public they would pull a ......move like this

i r dum.......they planned this all along
__________________
TDO Member
BUY OUR JERKY @ offroadjerky.com

Last edited by Crash440; 09-26-2012 at 10:29 PM.
Crash440 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 10:33 PM   #217 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Member # 43587
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 5,495
Send a message via AIM to TBItoy
I hope y'all get to "keep" some aspects of the TRAIL that make it a TRAIL. but since it's a county road that generates revenue, it will likely get put back to a maintained road status...

At least you'll still be able to drive on it.

You CAN'T drive on any of the previous trail in Tellico.


Y'all will be wheelin private land like us and building rock bouncers before long. It only took a couple years here.

Or you'll be doing different hobbies...
__________________
The Gremlin - small ugly linked beater Toyota
TBItoy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 10:41 PM   #218 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Member # 53528
Location: norcal
Posts: 15,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBItoy View Post
I hope y'all get to "keep" some aspects of the TRAIL that make it a TRAIL. but since it's a county road that generates revenue, it will likely get put back to a maintained road status...

At least you'll still be able to drive on it.

You CAN'T drive on any of the previous trail in Tellico.


Y'all will be wheelin private land like us and building rock bouncers before long. It only took a couple years here.

Or you'll be doing different hobbies...
or people will just do whats done before, and pull more big rocks into the box, which is exactly what i see being done, and i sure wont stop them.
rockyota83 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 11:56 PM   #219 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Member # 224589
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 7
This conversation has run the gamut from problems with special interests, people not attending meetings, and a "great schism" in the four-wheeling community. Isn't the problem a lot more basic than that? People need to pick up (quite literally) their crap. They closed Spyder Lake to camping because of human feces. If people would clean up their oil spills and their waste, not drink on the trail (it is a county road), not drive off the trail, not damage the vegetation, not modify the trail, and not otherwise break the other rules, then this would be a non-issue.

If you want to point fingers, how about pointing them at the people that caused this, and you can do so on the trail when you see this kind of behavior go down.

In the meantime though, the only solutions I see are to do what Bear recommends and email/call everyone you can, and if possible have a peaceful protest and sit-in on the trail (can we do that? will they haul people off to jail? It's public lands there right?).

Going forward the best solution is volunteering and making meetings whenever possible given the constraints of work and life. I just moved out here, but I would love to go out there and I'll pick the crap up myself if it'll keep the trail open.
wgyouree is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2012, 05:11 AM   #220 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Member # 227055
Location: POLLOCK PINES
Posts: 899
man i am soo bummed, this(like others) is in my backyard
i had the opportunity last weekend to take my 8 yr old little homie and i blew it,we stopped at soup bowl to play, he wanted to go in butt i said "no to late"
damn it. damn it. damn it
all he will have is the memory of our past trips, no last pics of him playing on the rocks, seeing others go thru, nothing its kinda like the TREE....GONE
will be just a memory...
if i wasnt on the east coast today it would def. be a sick day at school to say goodbye and try to esplain to him why OUR government- who works for us, elected by us is taking OUR land away from us..

#1 reason why i own guns and live like i do, this i will pass onto to him as well as my guns and beliefs, like my dad did for me

sad sad day.....
phunhawg98 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2012, 05:53 AM   #221 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Member # 21815
Location: Pollock Pines, CA
Posts: 4,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebe View Post
Wow - is it ignorance on the County's part - or Manipulation of the facts???
Are these the only two choices we have?

I suspect like Kurt said, they have their own definition. What I got from the meeting is that they want to remove the atmosphere that attracts users that don't respect the land. Yeah, I know they are punishing the many to discourage the few, and yes it's a political move, but that's the way they see it.
__________________
WWDD?

N6YBH
-

Thanks to
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
for sponsoring the 2017 Cantina For The Con!

"If you need a tool and don't buy it, you will ultimately find that you have paid for it but don't have it". -Henry Ford
resqme is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2012, 06:55 AM   #222 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 17,122
thanks for posting the pics bebe.


i'm going to stay out of this discussion on purpose for a couple of reasons:


1) i don't know enough about the subject at hand ( although i know a bit .... )

2) i have'nt devoted that much time to making a difference ( although i have been to plenty of trail clean-ups and try to do my part )

but there's something i would like to say:

i very much appreciate all the effort Scott and people like him put into making sure our trail stay open. i met scott twenty years ago when he was my trail leader at the first organized event i attended. since then, i've had the pleasure to wheel with him and i've run into him countless times on the rubicon trail. the work he does for "us" is almost a full-time job.

most sincerely!

georg @ valley hybrids
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2012, 07:10 AM   #223 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Member # 117547
Location: Vacaville, CA
Posts: 1,801
Even when the sluice is changed which unfortunately at this point is inevitable. that area will still remain a congregation spot on the trail. That is still a great camping area and other close points of interest for many people even with the sluice maintained. The illegally built cabin owners at spyder in the area there will still have a crowd to deal with. They can lead a battle to close down areas so they can have the place to them selves but they have a long way to go.
__________________
86 4Runner, 12 JKUR, 02 GMC 2500HD
Vice-President Trailbusters4x4 club Solano County
ECV 1004
N6FZY
FuzzyZ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2012, 07:34 AM   #224 (permalink)
Team 261 - VP
 
atvobsession's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Member # 31923
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 4,871
Quote:
Originally Posted by resqme View Post
Are these the only two choices we have?

I suspect like Kurt said, they have their own definition. What I got from the meeting is that they want to remove the atmosphere that attracts users that don't respect the land. Yeah, I know they are punishing the many to discourage the few, and yes it's a political move, but that's the way they see it.

This is my OWN personal opinion, since I can't get into the head of the decision makers....the people today, are paying for the party that was held there for 15+ years, the aftermath of Spider Closure in 2004, etc....

It's sad, and unfortunate...but that's how I see it. If the Little Sluice was used then, as it is used now...I don't think we'd dealing with this.
__________________
Regards,
Ken Hower - KOH #1962 Close Enough Racing/KOH #4899 Legends
Rubicon Trail Foundation - Director 2011-Present

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thanks to
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
for being the primary sponsor for the 2016 Cantina For The Con!

Last edited by atvobsession; 09-27-2012 at 07:35 AM.
atvobsession is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2012, 07:40 AM   #225 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Atv'er's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member # 108773
Location: Antelope, CA
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyZ View Post
Even when the sluice is changed which unfortunately at this point is inevitable. that area will still remain a congregation spot on the trail. That is still a great camping area and other close points of interest for many people even with the sluice maintained. The illegally built cabin owners at spyder in the area there will still have a crowd to deal with. They can lead a battle to close down areas so they can have the place to them selves but they have a long way to go.
There are hundreds if not thousands of illegally build cabins in California. To get a permit to build as I was told you have to have a area for a fire truck to turn around. How is a fire truck going to get there? The permit process is going to be hard to do in these circumstances.
__________________
Scott McCullough
atvobbsession.com
KI6MLH
Atv'er is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.