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Old 09-23-2012, 07:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Little Sluice

For those who don't know, the little sluice is going to be altered this Thursday/Friday. You can thank Jack Sweeney for this.

So, I personally don't care WTF happens to the "BOX" simply because I dont care for crowds....anywhere.


I do however, as an American, care about what happens to the sluice. Why? Because it is the only place for those that enjoy the challenge of hard "Rock Crawling" in Northern California, its only 100' at most and is easily manageable.

With the peer pressure lately, the lawless crowds have all but died down and it has become a respectful place on the trail, not the party spot of years past.

I see no reason to have it blown up, or covered, closed or touched in any way.
Everyone needs a place to enjoy in the PUBLIC forest and with the "Box" being so easily managed and regulated, we should all VOW to make sure it is left alone.

RTF, Step up or Step aside. I am calling all of you out. I challenge you. Make any alterations of the sluice...STOP.

Or...... show the entire country/world, why it should be altered, blown up or filled in....

Public land is for ALL of the Public.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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...Gosh forbid anybody upset the Jeepers Jambo or Jeepers USA applecart in RTF...Blowing the box is in their interest so they can get their little wheels through maybe...??? Crap, did I type that out ...ooops
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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seriously? That sucks.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Ready for it to be back to the 1925 standard. Investing in woodenwheels for the new buggy.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:24 PM   #7 (permalink)
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RTF, Step up or Step aside. I am calling all of you out. I challenge you. Make any alterations or the thought of the sluice...STOP
Who let Piggy out of chit chat?

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Old 09-23-2012, 08:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Who let Piggy out of chit chat?

FU..

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Old 09-23-2012, 08:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I have not read the RTF's position on the box. I do hear they want the trail open to all users of all types, from 4x4's to hikers to skiers for year round use.

There is a lot of influence from commercial interest in the Rubicon that's a given. Jeepers with a long history, as they just celebrated there 60th anniversary.

2 years ago during a pack county room, it was said they would reduce the rocks in Little Sluice. So your question would be better stated
"What has been the RTF position to county since that meeting on the Little Sluice"
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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X5, fawk this garbage. By time my baby girl is old enough too know what the rubicon is all about it will be a paved country road. It's a shame. Guess last summer was my last trip to the box. I'm with baggy, bust the wooden wheels and studebakers out.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R290 View Post
I have not read the RTF's position on the box. I do hear they want the trail open to all users of all types, from 4x4's to hikers to skiers for year round use.

There is a lot of influence from commercial interest in the Rubicon that's a given. Jeepers with a long history, as they just celebrated there 60th anniversary.

2 years ago during a pack county room, it was said they would reduce the rocks in Little Sluice. So your question would be better stated
"What has been the RTF position to county since that meeting on the Little Sluice"

RTF Position on Little Sluice


FOTR Position on Little Sluice
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:10 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Thanks! I was searching for those types of threads.
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Couldn't of said it any better (bear)
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Here a quote from the thread Bebe posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by randii View Post

Folks have been complaining at the ROC for years (and not RTF folks) about Little Sluice -- RTF is working to ensure that the public has a voice. If we'd have wanted to blast the Sluice, we could have just helped shush it through on the down-low -- how many of you folks attend the ROC, read the minutes, or talk with DOT? Instead of turning our head, RTF insisted that a public process was necessary -- kinda ironic, since the anti's who normally demand everything needs to be NEPA-ed, CEQ-ed, and played to the public were instead asking thet DOT just "Get in there and do it" with no public notice required.

RTF could have left Little Sluice in the crosshairs of the Water Quality Board earlier this year, but we fought hard to get it pulled... and we succeeded. If we wanted to 'do away with the sluice,' it would have been simple to just let it slide back then.

RTF fought for and acquired grant funds for mid-trail staff, and every day from early July through late September, an RTF-funded Mid-Trail Staffer is out the remaking contact with people and doing education, handing out wag bags and brochures/maps. That's a tough job these days, since explaining the laws is simple, and explaining why they aren't being enforced is complicated. One of the areas we are focused on is Little Sluice, because we WANT to see it kept open.

RTF believes that successful intervention at/near Little Sluice will require a multi-pronged effort that coordinates agencies, organizations, and volunteers. Closure is NOT acceptable, regardless of how many bypasses there are -- but we're gonna have to work hard to mitigate the issues so that we can 'Save the Sluice.'

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Old 09-23-2012, 10:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Fact of the matter is.....everyone deserves a place to recreate and enjoy public land, as long as it is not DESTROYING anything. The little sluice is a LANDMARK for hardcore wheeling in Nor Cal, is not damaging anything, and is easily manageable.

Please tell me, where will the ones that like to wheel hardcore trails go to in Northern California?
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I still find it a bit odd, with all the information out there about where the CAO came from and who the ones that pushed us into it (being the environmentalists), that there is still so much bickering and blaming the County, RTF, FOTR and the Jamborees. These groups have all tried more than any to keep the Rubicon trail open year round. It would be nice if everyone who has just sat behind their laptops and pointed the fingers actually did something like write a letter to your congressman, show up to an El Dorado County Board of Supervisor meeting or a State Water Board meeting and state your view where it might count.
I think most have forgotten the Rubicon started out as a road from Tahoe past Rubicon Soda Springs Hotel and out to Georgetown, that the fact it is a county road is the only reason it is still open. I don’t think many would like the trail to be the way it was back then now, including me, but the road was made by man and the erosion has been caused by vehicular traffic along with Mother Nature. El Dorado County could have easily just said that they did not want to maintain the road and the Forest Service probably would have loved it, but instead they have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to protect it not only for its residents but for all to continue to enjoy. I don’t believe in all the hype that the erosion is such a big environmental disaster, show me one river anywhere that was not the result of water carving its way through the earth, but my opinion will probably not go very far in the fight against the opposing forces. What needs to be done is joining the fight to protect our access to public lands, if you don’t like one of the above there are plenty other good organizations like CORVA, Cal4wd, Blue Ribbon and the list goes on. Do a little research yourself and find one you think might make the difference you’re looking for, because this is not the only trail in their cross hairs.

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Old 09-23-2012, 10:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Who let Piggy out of chit chat?

I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean but:

1. It brings nothing to the conversation and shows that you are not intelligent enough to have an adult conversation

or

2. Is supposed to be an insult, in which, I would recommend you do to my face and not on a keyboard.

That being said, where do you stand on the issue? (or you could continue to be useless.)
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:14 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean but:

1. It brings nothing to the conversation and shows that you are not intelligent enough to have an adult conversation

or

2. Is supposed to be an insult, in which, I would recommend you do to my face and not on a keyboard.

That being said, where do you stand on the issue? (or you could continue to be useless.)
1. This thread is pretty much useless to the ohv community and the users of the Rubicon trail. It does nothing but polarize and divide.

2. Pretty much a tongue and cheek insult. Piggy is well known on Pirate for his grammatical mastery of the keyboard. If I met you and you talked like you typed what I quoted, I probably would make said comment or something similar. "I'm calling you out" the last time I heard that was in the early 70's. If I had to guess, I would venture to say that when you made the original post, you had been drinking.

Where do I stand?

I'd like to see LS left alone and the variants of the trail in that area (ie bypasses) remain open.

I'd like to let Mother Nature place rocks from the side of the hill into the LS as apposed to a number of winch cables, but, what is done is done and time to move on.

I hope to never experience the zoo that took place at LS on the weekend before Spider was shut down. Their is no doubt in my mind that the current "management" is a direct result of that weekend and the many like it that took place prior.

I'd like to see people like yourself, that have a true passion for the preservation of the trail, direct your energy and passion to the areas that might produce a beneficial result. I don't see yet another tyrannical post on Pirate as being beneficial to the trail.
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:20 AM   #20 (permalink)
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1. This thread is pretty much useless to the ohv community and the users of the Rubicon trail. It does nothing but polarize and divide.

2. Pretty much a tongue and cheek insult. Piggy is well known on Pirate for his grammatical mastery of the keyboard. If I met you and you talked like you typed what I quoted, I probably would make said comment or something similar. "I'm calling you out" the last time I heard that was in the early 70's. If I had to guess, I would venture to say that when you made the original post, you had been drinking.

Where do I stand?

I'd like to see LS left alone and the variants of the trail in that area (ie bypasses) remain open.

I'd like to let Mother Nature place rocks from the side of the hill into the LS as apposed to a number of winch cables, but, what is done is done and time to move on.

I hope to never experience the zoo that took place at LS on the weekend before Spider was shut down. Their is no doubt in my mind that the current "management" is a direct result of that weekend and the many like it that took place prior.

I'd like to see people like yourself, that have a true passion for the preservation of the trail, direct your energy and passion to the areas that might produce a beneficial result. I don't see yet another tyrannical post on Pirate as being beneficial to the trail.
You sound like a bitter old man.

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Old 09-24-2012, 07:30 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I still find it a bit odd, with all the information out there about where the CAO came from and who the ones that pushed us into it (being the environmentalists), that there is still so much bickering and blaming the County, RTF, FOTR and the Jamborees. These groups have all tried more than any to keep the Rubicon trail open year round. It would be nice if everyone who has just sat behind their laptops and pointed the fingers actually did something like write a letter to your congressman, show up to an El Dorado County Board of Supervisor meeting or a State Water Board meeting and state your view where it might count.
I think most have forgotten the Rubicon started out as a road from Tahoe past Rubicon Soda Springs Hotel and out to Georgetown, that the fact it is a county road is the only reason it is still open. I donít think many would like the trail to be the way it was back then now, including me, but the road was made by man and the erosion has been caused by vehicular traffic along with Mother Nature. El Dorado County could have easily just said that they did not want to maintain the road and the Forest Service probably would have loved it, but instead they have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to protect it not only for its residents but for all to continue to enjoy. I donít believe in all the hype that the erosion is such a big environmental disaster, show me one river anywhere that was not the result of water carving its way through the earth, but my opinion will probably not go very far in the fight against the opposing forces. What needs to be done is joining the fight to protect our access to public lands, if you donít like one of the above there are plenty other good organizations like CORVA, Cal4wd, Blue Ribbon and the list goes on. Do a little research yourself and find one you think might make the difference youíre looking for, because this is not the only trail in their cross hairs.
I like the first paragraph. If people were to get more involved by attending meetings there would be less finger pointing on the boards. The county voted two years ago to change little sluice. If more people where involved two years ago the outcome of little sluice could have been differnt. Now it's to late.
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:16 AM   #22 (permalink)
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If more people where involved two years ago the outcome of little sluice could have been differnt. Now it's to late.
Lots of people were involved two years ago and still are, this is nothing new.

It saddens me to think one day I'll be able to take my stock Tacoma across the Rubicon while my rig sits at home on the trailer.

With that said half of the fun in going to the Rubicon and any trail is camping and enjoying the beautiful outdoors. The other half is some good wheeling to get there!

Over the last ten years us trail users have been keeping each other in check and making sure we are all responsible trail users. IT IS WORKING!!
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:22 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I like the first paragraph. If people were to get more involved by attending meetings there would be less finger pointing on the boards. The county voted two years ago to change little sluice. If more people where involved two years ago the outcome of little sluice could have been differnt. Now it's to late.
That horse, I will keep beating until something comes of it.

Not everyone is able to take time off work to attend these meetings. The meetings should at the least be recapped and sent out to mailing lists etc or even better, recorded for the public and put up on You tube. This is a case of not only our Government failing to keep the public informed, but also the "Users" who attend keeping it to themselves. That is a shame.

As this has been circulated through the various groups, I have been told that at the last OHMVR Commission meeting, not only were folks told about the alteration/modification of Little Sluice, but that rocks were going to be re-sized.

So why not spread the word, reach out and inform. Why wait until the rumors are flying to say - "oh yeah, we knew about that". Why the secrets? Was everyone at that meeting sworn to secrecy?

Tom Celio, by letter, committed to a public process with the "User Groups". I understand that Tom has been brought back to complete this project under contract...so do we contact him with user input?

I do understand the rush to complete this project while Jack is still in office. We may not be able to do our diligence as voters and not re-elect him, but there are a whole bunch of other supervisors on the board.
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:00 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Not everyone is able to take time off work to attend these meetings. The meetings should at the least be recapped and sent out to mailing lists etc or even better, recorded for the public and put up on You tube.
Link to El Dorado County Board of Supervisors meeting and minutes, now with video. County of El Dorado - Calendar

The bad part is the agendas are only avalible a few day before the meetings and it takes about a week for the minutes and videos after the meeting.
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:04 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Thanks Matt - I was referring more to the ROC meetings. But links to the Supervisor meetings are good!!
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