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Old 10-31-2012, 06:27 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by WLDWUN View Post
what you dont seem to understand is that if the trail were to continue to be and UNMAINTAINED road, it would also be a CLOSED UNMAINTAINED road.
I've heard this before. However, I've never seen any official statements reflecting such a paranoia.

Do you have any links or anything to support such a threat as being true and possible from an official source?

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Old 10-31-2012, 07:12 AM   #77 (permalink)
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I've heard this before. However, I've never seen any official statements reflecting such a paranoia.

Do you have any links or anything to support such a threat as being true and possible from an official source?
Dude, I thought you were paying attention. Remember being in Rancho Cordova in April 2009? That proof is called the CAO. Pretty dang official to me.

EVERY piece of propaganda I have seen from the ski crowd has called for closure. Some of those are on the Internet. The threat is very real.

Thanks to Jack Sweeney there is now an official easement for the trail. That helps a whole bunch legally, but still the closureists are out there looking to make the next move. The threat of a seasonal closure still looms large. If, that happens, the next step is a longer time period.


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Old 10-31-2012, 08:02 AM   #78 (permalink)
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It still amazes me how much of the "younger crowd" still doesn't "get it"

For anyone that thinks RTF, or FOTR helped blow up the box, you're wrong. If you attempted to be involved a little more, and stopped just yelling on the internet, maybe you would understand.

If you want to be mad at someone specific, hell at the douche that dropped the first rock off the wall. He already posted in this thread.
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Rage 4th............ "safety is our #2 concern"
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:18 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Dude, I thought you were paying attention. Remember being in Rancho Cordova in April 2009? That proof is called the CAO. Pretty dang official to me.

EVERY piece of propaganda I have seen from the ski crowd has called for closure. Some of those are on the Internet. The threat is very real.

Thanks to Jack Sweeney there is now an official easement for the trail. That helps a whole bunch legally, but still the closureists are out there looking to make the next move. The threat of a seasonal closure still looms large. If, that happens, the next step is a longer time period.


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So because every piece of propoganda from the anti-access crowd calls for closure that is a REAL threat?

I believe that the ramifications of trail closure are too far reaching (economically, logistically, ect) for the state/county to just put up a gate one day and call it done.

Once again, everyone is bowing down to EVERY request of trail alterations to satisfy the opposition based on a false sense of "winning" by keeping the trail open.

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Old 10-31-2012, 08:22 AM   #80 (permalink)
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It still amazes me how much of the "younger crowd" still doesn't "get it"

For anyone that thinks RTF, or FOTR helped blow up the box, you're wrong. If you attempted to be involved a little more, and stopped just yelling on the internet, maybe you would understand.

If you want to be mad at someone specific, hell at the douche that dropped the first rock off the wall. He already posted in this thread.
Brian, I think the "younger crowd" "gets it", but they dont like it and are willing to voice their opinions about it.

There is no reason to "yell at the douche that dropped the first rock off the wall". That did not cause all of these problems, it was just another rock in the trail...IM SURE THERE WILL BE MORE!!

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Old 10-31-2012, 10:15 AM   #81 (permalink)
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what you dont seem to understand is that the trail became one of the most famous recreational 4x4 trails in the world because it was an unmaintained road, ruin the hard sections of trail and it will no longer be anything but another sierra mountain back road, the trail should evolve just like the "jeeps" we drive have. the difficult sections of the trail do not have to be altered/closed in order to maintain it,
I was famous because it was difficult to stock vehicles at the time. just because technology has gotten better doesnt mean the trail needs to be harder.
If you are skiing and the mountain isnt steep enough for you, you do not make that mountain steeper, you find one that is up to your abilities.




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what am i doing to change the direction i would like to see it go? voice my opinion and put my money where my mouth is,
Your opinion seems more like complaining, just my take on it. I get it that you dont like the changes you have seen, hell I didnt like it when the closed hundreds of miles of other roads in this Forest, I would have been happy if they kept them open anyway possible.
And where do you put your money that you feel helps?


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what are you doing?
Probably not as much as I could, Its only the Rubicon, everyone focuses on that one trail and not the rest of the Forest.
With that said...
I have help arrange several tours of the Rubicon for the District Rangers back in 2008, did the same for one of the current County Supervisors to tour Little Sluice in 2010 prior to the decision to alter it. I sit on Resource Advisory Committee as the OHV representative that determines where certain funds can be spent on improvements and maintenance in the Forest. Help start the coordination committee with the County Supervisor as the OHV person. I have developed a very good relationship with people that manage the trails, both at the county and even more so within the Forest Service. Been to more meetings that I care to. Help set up the only Bay Area meeting for Route Designation. I have helped with FOTR work weekends, helped acquire one of the kiosks from another location. financially supported RTF, got my VE badge specifically so I could help get more people licensed on ham radios for use on the trail. Submitted comments on Route Designation that had a very big positive impact on Greensticker use in this Forest. Currently working on comments to retain all of the 42 routes that were affected by the court order. Spend hundreds of hours each year and thousands of dollars of my own money trying to make the whole Forest a better place.
Do I get a cookie now?




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it will no longer be anything but another sierra mountain back road.....
and to me, that is truely all it is
and every road in the Forest is just as important...no more, no less





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Brian, I think the "younger crowd" "gets it", but they dont like it and are willing to voice their opinions about it.
Dane
They dont have to like it, that is fine. But the way they voice their opinions is against others in the OHV community. they need to work together if they want to get a change that works for them.
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:35 AM   #82 (permalink)
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I like how the small tire crowd believes the big tire crowd is wrong in wanting a few sections that are still challenging. The difference is the jeeper jamboree group doesnt have a big tire event.... Though it sure has one for stock jeeps!!


The " be glad you still got a trail" bs I keep reading is laughable.... Its no secret the big tire crowd are viewed as the riff-raff( how many crowds do you see centered anywhere to watch stock jeeps wheel?). So take away what brings the crowds and big tires and people stop bitching about them... Problem solved


Like I said ...shy of the trail getting closed its pretty much a lost cause. Everything they have wanted to change has happened anyways. If anyone here thinks bitching on a chat board about it is gonna get it changed back.....
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:42 AM   #83 (permalink)
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There is no reason to "yell at the douche that dropped the first rock off the wall". That did not cause all of these problems, it was just another rock in the trail...IM SURE THERE WILL BE MORE!!

So, one rock finds it’s way off the cliff face on to the trail. No big deal or is it?

The boulder(s) moved in to the LS years ago made the trail more difficult. Some people could no longer drive through the LS. Why wasn’t something done immediately? Look to who was in control at the time….

The boulders caused controversy within the OHV community. The man in charge of the Rubicon at the time couldn’t have been happier. His name is Rich Platt. Yes, the R in RMK. Rich loved that we were divided so he wasn’t going to do a thing.

(Although the County has RS2477 rights going back forever, this was before the had re-stated their claim to the trail and took maintenance away from the FS.)

With a more difficult trail there was more breakage and flops/rolls. This put more oil on the ground. Rich still wasn’t going to do anything because he saw that the OHV crowd was digging their own grave.

The boulders made exciting wheeling and brought in spectators. The area around Spider had always been popular but now it was getting overcrowded. Rich still wasn’t going to do anything.

The area has a great deal of granite coverage. This didn’t allow for the burial of human waste so some people just shit on the rocks. Rich was loving it, as the OHV community was setting themselves up for closure.

Then Rich played his card. The FS was closing the area around Spider to camping. The county followed later. Everyone cried. Everyone claimed they could clean up their act and that camping should be allowed.

And them came the issue of defining the trail. It came down to a 8-10 foot trail in a 25’ easement. But where was the center of the trail and why isn’t it marked and you can’t enforce that, can you?

And then you thought Rich was being nice. He allowed a 75 foot corridor around the LS to allow the slabs to continue to be used. He wasn’t being nice. He was giving you more rope with which to hang yourselves. And you did.

The oil spills continued, the human waste continued, the parties and drunkenness continued. The OHV crowd had played right in to the hands of Rich Platt and the anti-OHV crowd.

Save the Sluice started and although had some success in the beginning seemed to fade away. They couldn't turn back the new use of the LS.

The last straw fell when the BOS announced they were going to reduce the size of the boulders in the LS. Two years later it finally happened. And only then did people start to complain about it. Too late.

So, let’s look back. If that first boulders never ‘fell’, the trail would not have been more difficult, it wouldn’t have been worth it to stop and watch people drive through it, there wouldn’t have been the human waste issue, people would still be partying at the Springs (private property).

Yes, that first rock did cause all these problems.





edit: I guess I should add for the record that this is only my opinion and I have no report, study, survey or Magic 8-Ball results to add as documentation.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:17 AM   #84 (permalink)
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Historically closing trails is nothing new by any means. I remember stories from my dad growing up, about trips they used to take with the El Dorado Jeep Hurders. In specific, they used to go to 4th of July Lake often. Access to that lake was closed in the mid 1960's. Granted, it was not from the modern day Greene's, but it did fall victim to early day movements to create more Public wilderness, which is now known as the Mokelumne Wilderness. Ironically closing off motor access to the lake in this new public area.

My point being, This older crowd knows first hand what its like losing trails. Just as we are today.

It always cracks me up that everyone points the finger at Jeepers Jamboree as the driving force behind small wheel tire group. For the record, yes I am a Volunteer for them, I have been for 18 years. Is there any incentive to do it, no just more time spent at my favorite place. Do I stack rocks at certain obstacles, in favorable places to get jeeps through, you bet! I have been know to do it for myself also on trips when stuck, as we all have. Am I moving the same rocks constantly through the day. YES! My point is, for those that think we pave the trail, its constantly changing, and I have literally be on the trail within days of the event, and cannot tell that 400 plus jeeps passed through just days before. The primary reason I personally stack rocks on that trip is not to make it easier, but to make sure everyone gets into camp on time. I would love to see anyone of you try to come close to get that many vehicles/less experienced drivers through in 1 day.

That trip in particular is not about big tires vs little tires. Its about getting users on the trail who would not normally do so. In my book that's a win in General for our community. And last time I checked there is no Bias to which tires can go. The difference is, the big tire guys are self sufficient and don't need that kind of help. That trip is a one of a kind experience that has a great journey, but an even better destination.

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Old 10-31-2012, 11:20 AM   #85 (permalink)
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Brian, I think the "younger crowd" "gets it", but they dont like it and are willing to voice their opinions about it.

There is no reason to "yell at the douche that dropped the first rock off the wall". That did not cause all of these problems, it was just another rock in the trail...IM SURE THERE WILL BE MORE!!

Dane
I guess we will disagree again. I don't think most "get it". If they did, they wouldn't be arguing here with FOTR lead's. They would be asking what the next thing on the chopping block is......(soup bowl), and what they can do to help save it. If more people had "got it" two years ago, maybe LS would still be the same, but only a handfull of people fought to leave it alone, and we lost the battle.

Voicing your opinion is great (lord knows I love to do it), but attacking OHV leadership is the wrong way to do it. Not only does it no help, but it damages what we are working for. If you don't think these closure attacks are real, do you know anyone that wheeled Barrett this year? Me either....

Go to a ROC meeting. Listen to the crazy people spew their crap. I used to question it all too. Soon after GK got blown up, I started going to ROC meeting. Had to take an entire day off work every time, but I went for about 6 straight meetings.... It taught me that the guys (and gal) that I was attacking, were spending a ton of their personal time, fighting for the same things I was. I also realized how difficult it was to get anything done, and how much more "pull" the crazies had than us..... I bet they do a lot less bitchin amongt themselves....

For all the guys mad at Doug, or Scott, or anyone else, cause they have "volunteered" to help the trail.... Untill you at least show up to one of these meetings, sit in the back, and listen, you have no idea what we are up against. If you say its impossible for you to show up to the meetings, then too bad. You will be left in the dark.

At this point, a lot of us "big tire guys" look like cry babies with our heads in the sand. Did I want LS blown up.... no. Am I angry it was blown up, yes. Do I blame FOTR, or RTF, no. I do blame the dirty hippies that hate us, and I also blame Jack Sweeny, but thats just me.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:25 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Yes, that first rock did cause all these problems.
See this is why we are divided. You are blaming all problems on one persons actions.
Lets forget about LS and think about the rest of the changes that have been done. Is he responsible for all that too?

Lets just get it out there and why dont the true intentions be brought to the table. One person says who backs fotr "oh we didnt want LS to change" then in the same sentence point out how the trail was damaged and only damaged by the hardcore guys.
So put it on the table.
You want everyone to band together? Tell the truth. If the truth is they want it to be a super easy trail so stock rigs can make it, then say it. This secret society bs is getting old.

The facts are there, they are telling the "hardcore" guys what they want to hear and doing the complete opposite. Why? Money. Politicians do the exact same thing to win your vote. I continue to point out that yes or no is not in their vocabulary.
So I imagine a legit response to my question is not going to happen. It will included multiple misleading statements that will not get to the point of the original question
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:34 AM   #87 (permalink)
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See this is why we are divided. You are blaming all problems on one persons actions.
Lets forget about LS and think about the rest of the changes that have been done. Is he responsible for all that too?

Lets just get it out there and why dont the true intentions be brought to the table. One person says who backs fotr "oh we didnt want LS to change" then in the same sentence point out how the trail was damaged and only damaged by the hardcore guys.
So put it on the table.
You want everyone to band together? Tell the truth. If the truth is they want it to be a super easy trail so stock rigs can make it, then say it. This secret society bs is getting old.

The facts are there, they are telling the "hardcore" guys what they want to hear and doing the complete opposite. Why? Money. Politicians do the exact same thing to win your vote. I continue to point out that yes or no is not in their vocabulary.
So I imagine a legit response to my question is not going to happen. It will included multiple misleading statements that will not get to the point of the original question
What do you consider hardcore? ( I only ask, cause I want to know if I fit the bill 39's are kinda small nowadays).
I didn't want LS altered by the county, but am more mad at myself, cause I should have done more to stop it.

Before I answer the rest. Do you know what the CAO is? That would explain a lot of the work on the trail. You have to understand that 90% of the work is being done by the county, because of it. FOTR isn't cracking rocks, or trying to make the trail easier, IMO.
They are trying to maintain what the county wants, so that we can still use the trail.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:35 AM   #88 (permalink)
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I would love to see anyone of you try to come close to get that many vehicles/less experienced drivers through in 1 day.
This statement right here says it all. Rubicon should require skill, it did even back in the "glory days".

Man the trail in the direction its heading, you could double the # of participants and That $160,000 in entry fees could be double, thus more profit

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Old 10-31-2012, 11:39 AM   #89 (permalink)
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What do you consider hardcore? ( I only ask, cause I want to know if I fit the bill 39's are kinda small nowadays).
I didn't want LS altered by the county, but am more mad at myself, cause I should have done more to stop it.

Before I answer the rest. Do you know what the CAO is? That would explain a lot of the work on the trail. You have to understand that 90% of the work is being done by the county, because of it. FOTR isn't cracking rocks, or trying to make the trail easier, IMO.
They are trying to maintain what the county wants, so that we can still use the trail.
I have 39"s on one rig, I dont know if im "hardcore"? I and many others would just love to hear the TRUE non misleading intentions they have for the trail.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:49 AM   #90 (permalink)
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I and many others would just love to hear the TRUE non misleading intentions they have for the trail.
Who is THEY? FOTR? RTF? The county? PEER?
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:01 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Who is THEY? FOTR? RTF? The county? PEER?
FOTR would be a great start. And enough of "were why its still open", that bs. The economical effect would not allow such a thing
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:25 PM   #92 (permalink)
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FOTR would be a great start. And enough of "were why its still open", that bs. The economical effect would not allow such a thing
The FOTR misson statement has been posted many times. Our annual meeting is open to the public, as are all of our work parties. 1 thing I can say for sure, is, if it wasn't for FOTR, there would be a gate on the Tahoe side. And if not for Doug, and Del, and the rest of the guys and gals that busted ass that year, no one would be wheelin the Tahoe side after the first ran fall (much like Barrett).

Is the trail open year round only because of FOTR, no.
Is FOTR a strong force that keeps the county happy enough not to have seasonal closures. Hell yes!
If you look back, the original CAO mandated seasonal closures on the trail. But folks from FOTR stood up, fought, and won.
They had that verbage removed, along with other crap that would hurt our wheelin exsperience.

All of this is public knowledge.
I know myself, a member of FOTR, feels that the work we do is keeping the trail available for us to use. Thats good enough for me. I wish it was good enough for you. The more people that consider themselves FOTR, and join the fight, makes us stronger, and helps us win battles. We have lost a lot of them, cause our numbers just arent big enough/strong enough, and united.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:31 PM   #93 (permalink)
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FOTR would be a great start. And enough of "were why its still open", that bs. The economical effect would not allow such a thing
FOTR does not make decisions on the direction of the trail. They are the boots on the ground doing the work that needs to be done.

regardless I dont think you will accept the answer you hear unless it is what you think it will be.

And if you think the trail has too much of an economical effect to close, you are sorely mistaken.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:57 PM   #94 (permalink)
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I guess we will disagree again. I don't think most "get it". If they did, they wouldn't be arguing here with FOTR lead's. They would be asking what the next thing on the chopping block is......(soup bowl), and what they can do to help save it. If more people had "got it" two years ago, maybe LS would still be the same, but only a handfull of people fought to leave it alone, and we lost the battle.

Voicing your opinion is great (lord knows I love to do it), but attacking OHV leadership is the wrong way to do it. Not only does it no help, but it damages what we are working for. If you don't think these closure attacks are real, do you know anyone that wheeled Barrett this year? Me either....

Go to a ROC meeting. Listen to the crazy people spew their crap. I used to question it all too. Soon after GK got blown up, I started going to ROC meeting. Had to take an entire day off work every time, but I went for about 6 straight meetings.... It taught me that the guys (and gal) that I was attacking, were spending a ton of their personal time, fighting for the same things I was. I also realized how difficult it was to get anything done, and how much more "pull" the crazies had than us..... I bet they do a lot less bitchin amongt themselves....

For all the guys mad at Doug, or Scott, or anyone else, cause they have "volunteered" to help the trail.... Untill you at least show up to one of these meetings, sit in the back, and listen, you have no idea what we are up against. If you say its impossible for you to show up to the meetings, then too bad. You will be left in the dark.

At this point, a lot of us "big tire guys" look like cry babies with our heads in the sand. Did I want LS blown up.... no. Am I angry it was blown up, yes. Do I blame FOTR, or RTF, no. I do blame the dirty hippies that hate us, and I also blame Jack Sweeny, but thats just me.
Fortunately you and I are able to amicably agree to disagree. I THINK one of the issues that the "hardcore/big tire/young crowd" has is that they may not want to "help" out with the groups that dont appear to care about their wants for the future of the trail.

If all that they see is parts of the trail that they love getting closed/paved and people who are "in the know" in these groups saying that its O.K. cause the trail is still open they are not going to take time off work/donate money to help keep a trail open that is of no use to them (in their minds).

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Old 10-31-2012, 01:02 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by WLDWUN View Post
FOTR does not make decisions on the direction of the trail. They are the boots on the ground doing the work that needs to be done.

regardless I dont think you will accept the answer you hear unless it is what you think it will be.

And if you think the trail has too much of an economical effect to close, you are sorely mistaken.
The economics of the trail brings up a few questions that I have. If you have the answer that is great, if you do not, I completely understand.

First, green sticker (ohv) funds that are given to the county; are these funds based on the amount of trails in the county and money given per trail. What I mean is that because the Rubicon allows green stickers does the county get more money from the OHV fund as a lump sum and can they use the money for any OHV area in the county or is it specifically earmarked per trail/OHV area.

Secondly, the economic impact on the local businesses. Fresh Pond, CBMR, and Uncle Toms Cabin are the most related businesses that I can come up with. Are they aware of the incredible loss that they will take if the trail is closed, even seasonally? Im sure that the county has taken this into account, but they may not even be aware of the money that the users of the trail spend every year in local communities.

Dane
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:16 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dane View Post
Fortunately you and I are able to amicably agree to disagree.
True, and I'm okay with that. As long as you don't call me old

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Originally Posted by dane View Post
Fortunately you and I are able to amicably agree to disagree. I THINK one of the issues that the "hardcore/big tire/young crowd" has is that they may not want to "help" out with the groups that dont appear to care about their wants for the future of the trail.

If all that they see is parts of the trail that they love getting closed/paved and people who are "in the know" in these groups saying that its O.K. cause the trail is still open they are not going to take time off work/donate money to help keep a trail open that is of no use to them (in their minds).

Dane
I felt this way 10 years ago, and went to my first FOTR work weekend to "make a difference". I found that most of the guys there had fairly built rigs, they liked to run run the box, soup bowl, etc. If you have never been to one, you should... if for nothing else, but to realize who the real workers are. Its not just abunch of 60 year olds with flat fenders on 31's.
If your only take on FOTR is PBB, than you only have seen 5% of us that post in this forum. It just so happens that the more vocal ones, are the more educated ones, and they know what needs to be done to keep the county happy. And they are probably pretty tired of being attacked by guys on PBB after busting their asses doing what is best for the trail.

On another note: I don't always get along with everyone in FOTR either. I have had my differences with quite a few of them. But I believe we all have the same end goal... sometimes just a differant path on how to get there.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:35 PM   #97 (permalink)
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If you want to be mad at someone specific, hell at the douche that dropped the first rock off the wall. He already posted in this thread.
ive herd this same claim over and over in this forum since it was created, ive yet to come across someone using a name with these claims, until you have a name to go along with these claims youre full of it.

if i knew who he was i wouldnt be mad at him, i would thank him, the box has inspired people to modify their rigs to be capable of getting through it, be it in person or pictures on the internet. the end result is a huge affect on the growth of this sport and the products being offered, with out the box i doubt this website would have blown up like it did. the tech that results from needing a rig capable of getting through the box is the pure essence of what this web site is, am i alone in realizing the title of this site is HARDCORE ROCK CRAWLING.

the box is far more important than you could imagine, its obviously a waste of time debating about it anymore.

if the guy that helped pull rocks off the wall is in this thread reading this, THANK YOU, you have played a role in making this sport what it is today.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:43 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PJohnson View Post
So, you're saying that hardcore rockcrawlers are the only legitimate trail users? Or are you saying that a stock vehicle owner is not a legitimate trail user?

My point is that you, and others like you, are actively aiding those who would love to see all our trails closed by dividing the 4x4 community.

Keep it up, I'm sure it's giving Karen a woody ...

I follow these threads hoping to see the community coming together. Unfortunately, there's been very little community and lots of tin foil hat conspiracy theorists.

Phil
I am all for separating myself, from people who are advocating paving "offroad" "Trails" under the false perception that they are part of this community, because they are too lazy too work at conquering a trail and participating in our sport. By all mean take your stock truck on the rubicon, winch, stack rocks, take a few shots at lines until you make it. I will help you as much as I can and cheer you on. This is rockcrawling this is what we do, and there used to be sections of trail that every level of vehicle had the opportunity to do this in.

If you want to drive to a lake cool, I'll give you a map of twenty you can drive your rockcrawler to. You want to enjoy nature stop on the side hwy and stare at the trees for as long as you want. You want to drive some incredibly challenging terrain that takes you and your vehicle to it's limits and get away from people like you and Karen, well there's only a few which is why it's so important that we keep these areas challenging. Rockcrawling is about being challenged, let me know if it's something different for you and maybe I can point you to a car show club or maybe a car camping club.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:50 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rockyota83 View Post
ive herd this same claim over and over in this forum since it was created, ive yet to come across someone using a name with these claims, until you have a name to go along with these claims youre full of it.

if i knew who he was i wouldnt be mad at him, i would thank him, the box has inspired people to modify their rigs to be capable of getting through it, be it in person or pictures on the internet. the end result is a huge affect on the growth of this sport and the products being offered, with out the box i doubt this website would have blown up like it did. the tech that results from needing a rig capable of getting through the box is the pure essence of what this web site is, am i alone in realizing the title of this site is HARDCORE ROCK CRAWLING.

the box is far more important than you could imagine, its obviously a waste of time debating about it anymore.

if the guy that helped pull rocks off the wall is in this thread reading this, THANK YOU, you have played a role in making this sport what it is today.
Well put, while I don't agree with modifying the trail to make it harder. It was done in an area where it didn't limit any ones access and probably created hundreds of jobs and helped this site do as well as it has done.
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:08 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dane View Post
First, green sticker (ohv) funds that are given to the county; are these funds based on the amount of trails in the county and money given per trail. What I mean is that because the Rubicon allows green stickers does the county get more money from the OHV fund as a lump sum and can they use the money for any OHV area in the county or is it specifically earmarked per trail/OHV area.
Dane
Others will know more about the OHV funds than I do..so others feel free to correct me

The OHV Greeensticker funds are not just given to the County. the County (as well as the Forest Service, RTF, Sherrifs dept, non-profits etc) have to apply for the grants. It has no relation to amount of trails within the county. There are rules as to what the monies can be used for such as maintenence, education, restoration of OHV areas.
If the Rubicon did not allow OHV use, the county could not apply for grants to work on the trail, or educate users. they may be able to apply for funds only to restore areas damaged by OHV use.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dane View Post

Secondly, the economic impact on the local businesses. Fresh Pond, CBMR, and Uncle Toms Cabin are the most related businesses that I can come up with. Are they aware of the incredible loss that they will take if the trail is closed, even seasonally? Im sure that the county has taken this into account, but they may not even be aware of the money that the users of the trail spend every year in local communities.

Dane
Yes the County is aware that the Rubicon does help support a lot of the business. Fresh Pond may be one, but sne of the larger ones would be Safeway in Pollock Pines as well as the gas stations, and parts stores there. It would be extremly difficult to measure what a trail closure (any trail) would cost. Some of those people would just go to other trails within the county, as some would also not come at all.
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