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Old 08-01-2016, 11:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Little Sluice Paved Again 5/24/2016? Why?

So I've been holding off on this because I was trying to gather the facts.

This is what went down.

There was a work party scheduled at Winter Camp:

Quote:
Sign up Winter Camp and Soup Bowl:

May 24th the helicopter will be flying in concrete bags to the Bridge and Soup Bowl to be unloaded and stored for later projects this summer.

The helicopter will also be flying in rock to harden Winter Camp.
Jon Crowley posts a thread about a "Little Sluice Aerial photo"
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/rubic...ce-aerial.html

There's a WTF moment.

A facebook post pops into my feed:

Quote:
So, apparently every three years the Little Sluice is going to be paved. How disappointing, I thought I did good work keeping the "experience" as best I could. Do I have to get involved again to keep this BS from happening?? Is there no one there now to check and balance??
Some more questions:

Quote:
Guess the word is... It's was a mistake ? Hope they didn't pay the helo pilot! They must have dumped 5-6 loads there. How could this happen if the county and RTF was there?
The explanations start:

Quote:
From my understanding there were soils exposed in little sluice. This is one of the spots on the trail monitored for contamination of soil for the water board. To keep it simple... Our choices are to bring in rock or risk the cold cracking of larger rocks to keep the area rock hardened and soils covered. The choice to drop rock instead of breaking the larger rocks I personally feel was the best choice given our options.
Quote:
Short version- LS had exposed soils. This was a proactive measure by the county to stay ahead of things like another clean up and abatement issue.
More questions:

Quote:
How TF do you "mistake" soup bowl and winter camp for little sluice?
No prior discussions, no planning, just dump rocks and call it a "mistake".....
And another answer:

Quote:
The mistake was in rock size and placement, we hoped to have it spread out a bit lower in the box. And the first ( one load) of 4 total loads were smaller rock than requested.
More blah blah and text messages.

From what I could gather, FOTR was there to do a work party and were told to stay away while the rock was being dropped (Winter Camp) and then Vickie Sanders called an "Audible" and changed the location of the drop at the last minute while the Helo was in flight.

How is it that Ms. Sanders can make that kind of call?

And then this comes through:

Quote:
You are subscribed to Rubicon Trail Updates for El Dorado County, Parks Division.

This weekend is the 64th Annual Jeepers Jamboree. Because of the maintenance efforts of El Dorado County and the hard working, dedicated volunteers, the Jamboree participants will be able to run Little Sluice if they wish. This is a historic route and a first for Jamboree participants since 1973!!!
Thanks,

Bebe
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Old 08-02-2016, 08:45 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 08-02-2016, 09:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Going to need a name change to Rubicon Highway.
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Old 08-02-2016, 11:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Subscribed. Sounds like an interesting discussion...
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yes, very interesting........it can get worse and likely will.
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I don't think that Jeepers Jamboree & Jeep Jamboree, Inc. did anything but take advantage of a fubar situation. Knowing the work done by the current President to minimize the original blasting and the viewpoint he has, I doubt any collusion there took place.
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Old 08-02-2016, 04:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Well the buck stops at Vickie Sanders. She made the call (apparently). Someone had to bend her ear, pay her off, something.

Wasn't the rock billed at 22K per drop during the first go-round? if they dropped another 4-5 drops, 110K.

If she can have the autonomy to spend half the SMUD budget on on obstacle, while leaving Winter Camp and Wentworth Springs vulnerable to closure (due to the attention they so desperately need), I think we have made a serious mistake in not putting a public process in place with the County.

But because a few RTF Directors insisted that bedding the County was the only option, we are now left with Vicky Sanders in charge. 1). She's an Admin Assistant, 2). She doesn't Wheel, 3). She's easily influenced.

I worked with her directly, and indirectly ( lol when she stopped talking to me and would only relay messages through John/Scott/Randii).

Are we supposed to just suck it up and let her do what ever she wants, or what ever the JJ's or RTP wants?
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Old 08-02-2016, 04:09 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bebe View Post
So I've been holding off on this because I was trying to gather the facts.

This is what went down.

There was a work party scheduled at Winter Camp:


This situation is very disappointing. It is important to sort through the players and their decisions related to a re-pave of the box so that members of the 4wd community can make wise decisions regarding who recieves their votes in leadership positions, who/what organizations they choose to support with their donations, and the appropriate county email addresses to channel concerns. An appropriate starting point would be a direct statement here from the current FOTR Trail Boss. Specifically, what she knew and when she knew it.

As stated above, the Trail Boss called out for volunteer help to accomplish a very important project at Winter Camp. Was that project all along just a smoke screen cover for the more nefarious acts at the box perpetrated by the county and RTF?

So Trail Boss, what do you say, and how would you explain this to trail volunteers.

And just for the record, prior to the normal RTF nutswinging, I stated the county and RTF because Vickie Sanders was "Board Elected" in 2014 to the Rubicon Trail Foundation.
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Old 08-02-2016, 04:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
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If she can have the autonomy to spend half the SMUD budget on on obstacle, while leaving Winter Camp and Wentworth Springs vulnerable to closure (due to the attention they so desperately need), I think we have made a serious mistake in not putting a public process in place with the County
Ummmm

Most of the minions in the cheap seats chomping on f-ing tacos blindly trusted RTF to be that public process.

Though, based upon its founding charter, its destiny was secured; many of the early pioneers that I have spoken to reflect upon their misjudgement of concentrating power in a manner that generally leads to petty power brokering amongst its members.

Oh well.
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Old 08-02-2016, 05:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Old 08-02-2016, 05:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Vickie Sanders is an RTF Board Member? WTF?

Holy...How is that not a conflict of interest? She Manages the trail for the County (A government position), manages all the funds that go to the Trail for "Projects", both Public and Private, whose other board members (a few) and Directors work for one profit making entity or another that benefits directly from those allocated funds.

WHAAAT?
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Old 08-02-2016, 06:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Yeah, WHAAT ?
The disappointment regarding the drop in LS is certainly a major one.
The conflict of interest and the responsibility held by Vickie Sanders is interesting and concerning.
One point you mentioned that alarms me is the overlooking of work at Winter Camp and wentworth, It would not be surprising to hear that the resources have been spent and that the areas that needed attention got none and now there is a risk of more mitigation or worst case, closures, because those ares were not addressed.
it is a real surprise that something like this could happen and not be stopped or at least known about prior to. I am with Bebe when she says that it appears there was some underhanded dealings or collusion in order for this to be "just an accident "
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Old 08-02-2016, 08:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Old 08-02-2016, 08:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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It's been made very clear over and over that rtf and jeepers jamboree does not give a fuck what anyone thinks. They're lining their pocketbooks and guarantee they will soon get there wish of closing the trail, except for their yearly event. Then, they will force us to pay them to use it.

Shit like this is why this subforum and support is dying.

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Old 08-03-2016, 06:50 AM   #15 (permalink)
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It's been made very clear over and over that rtf and jeepers jamboree does not give a fuck what anyone thinks. They're lining their pocketbooks and guarantee they will soon get there wish of closing the trail, except for their yearly event. Then, they will force us to pay them to use it.

Shit like this is why this subforum and support is dying.
Loosen the tinfoil there Nancy.

Seems like VS made a judgement call. Might not have been the right one, might have been influenced. I don't know one way or the other, either does anybody else in this thread.

"Talk" with her and find out. The chimp out here on pirate is rather pathetic as usual.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:08 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Is there a way to kick Vicky Sanders out of her positions? Even if this was a mistake, wasting that kind of money has to have consequence. She must pay!
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:16 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Is there a way to kick Vicky Sanders out of her positions? Even if this was a mistake, wasting that kind of money has to have consequence. She must pay!
That sounds logical since it seems no one knows the full story.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:37 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Loosen the tinfoil there Nancy.

Seems like VS made a judgement call. Might not have been the right one, might have been influenced. I don't know one way or the other, either does anybody else in this thread.

"Talk" with her and find out. The chimp out here on pirate is rather pathetic as usual.
"Tinfoil"?

Yeah right.

The jeepers jamboree and organizations such as the rtf use this trail as their personal bank. They buy land "for the public" that the public cannot use, but a certain few use it as their own personal land.

The tree at sluice falls and they take instant ownership and condemn anyone that attempts to take a piece for their own slice of history.

"A poor judgement call" is made and the jeepers jamboree instantly benefits. Now they can sell more tickets to a bunch of stock jks because "whoops, we paved little sluice". And what do you know, the crooked person that made the call has a conflict of interest in the situation, but let's just ignore that.

You're a fool to believe that they're here for our best interest. Yes they started that way, but then crooked people like Vickie Sanders became involved.

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Old 08-03-2016, 10:55 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one......I have mine, you have yours. Yay! That's all it is, just an opinion.
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Old 08-03-2016, 11:14 AM   #20 (permalink)
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FWIW:

I was asked about the work done in Little Sluice just days after we completed our AAT Spring Assessment on Walker Hill. (The weekend after the work had been completed) I was frustrated that the AAT Leaders were not advised of the work prior to it being done so I contacted Vickie to voice my concerns. Here's the response I received:

"I made the decision to add rock to Little Sluice because there was exposed soils. This area was part of the Clean Up and Abatement order and since I had a helicopter in the air paid for by a state grant I decided that ignoring this issue would not be a good choice for the county. My only other choice is to reduce all the rock located in this area to cover the soils. We both know that the rocks will grow again. I am only explaining this to you so that you have an explanation if asked again."

Take this for what it's worth. I like Vickie and still think she wants to do what's best for the trail but this action was the last straw for us and we resigned from the AAT program.
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Old 08-03-2016, 12:24 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Cool, so nobody in here pissing and moaning are going to drive on the rtf property when it opens. Bunch of hypocrites. Typical response is about it never opening....cool, again, don't go there when it does.

I hiked in and got a piece of the LS Juniper. Nobody gave me shit over it. If it was left, most of it would have been firewood.

If you think JJ is going to sell additional tickets because of rock in LS then you are the fool. Cantina money and some sort of mysterious revenue from the trail lining rtf director pockets. Really.

My adopt a trail section got bombed with rocks too. I'll use it to fuel my fire and try to guide trail maintenance so it's not likely to happen again. At least participating offers me a voice.


Tinfoil and libtards.
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Old 08-03-2016, 02:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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So many issue to address, I will start with this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubicrawler View Post
FWIW:

I was asked about the work done in Little Sluice just days after we completed our AAT Spring Assessment on Walker Hill. (The weekend after the work had been completed) I was frustrated that the AAT Leaders were not advised of the work prior to it being done so I contacted Vickie to voice my concerns. Here's the response I received:

"I made the decision to add rock to Little Sluice because there was exposed soils. This area was part of the Clean Up and Abatement order and since I had a helicopter in the air paid for by a state grant I decided that ignoring this issue would not be a good choice for the county. My only other choice is to reduce all the rock located in this area to cover the soils. We both know that the rocks will grow again. I am only explaining this to you so that you have an explanation if asked again."

Take this for what it's worth. I like Vickie and still think she wants to do what's best for the trail but this action was the last straw for us and we resigned from the AAT program.
First Mark, it is refreshing to see someone who has given so much of his time to take a firm stand and set limits. If their were more people like you, this sorry mess would have never happened. I will discuss why it should not have happened:

(and FWIW, I know getting an endorsement from me is like getting one from Trump, just deal with it)

For others, I quoted Rubicrawler's post because, in my opinion, it incorporates a statement that I find to be untrue, or at least Hillary style misleading.

"This area was part of the Clean Up and Abatement order...." Not really.
In fact, Jack Sweeney (boo) added the area to the County Charter for post CAO management and inspection. Little Sluice is at the top of the mountain, very little soil originates from that location, nor could a signicant amount, if any, migrate from the area.

I believe Sweeney got involved in the issue to make certain the level of traffic to the area could never return, thus protecting the peace and quiet of the neighboring property owners, for which they had no legal foundation to demand from the county.

Anyway, we got, what we got.

What is a continued real pisser is that Vickie uses the CAO as a boogie man instead of just simply mitigating the condition at hand.

Let's look at her professional options:

1) be invited into a community where quality communications are key to success and volunteerism;
accept an appointment to the board of a foundation whose existance is guaranteed by public donations;
make a questionable decision regarding the most emotional subject and section of trail;
use the boogie man made me do it defense,

or

2) identify a maintenance issue important to the county;
discuss the matter with the AAT club for the area;
given the history of the trail and the specific area, develop an ongoing maintenance plan which would include the club monitoring the open soil areas and using the lightest efforts necessary to move existing rock into the patch areas on a regular basis,
communicate your efforts with RTF and the general public.

Vickie further stated: "I made the decision" Yes, yes you did.

And who tf is the author of the quote in Bebe's OP:

"Short version - LS had exposed soils. This was a proactive measure by the county to stay ahead of things like another clean up and abatement issue."

Step up and be recognized. I am betting someone from RTF.
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Old 08-03-2016, 02:11 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Cool, so nobody in here pissing and moaning are going to drive on the rtf property when it opens. Bunch of hypocrites. Typical response is about it never opening....cool, again, don't go there when it does.

I hiked in and got a piece of the LS Juniper. Nobody gave me shit over it. If it was left, most of it would have been firewood.

If you think JJ is going to sell additional tickets because of rock in LS then you are the fool. Cantina money and some sort of mysterious revenue from the trail lining rtf director pockets. Really.

My adopt a trail section got bombed with rocks too. I'll use it to fuel my fire and try to guide trail maintenance so it's not likely to happen again. At least participating offers me a voice.


Tinfoil and libtards.
Hey Lightweight,

Why don't you go choak on a taco.

And for the record, you will never see me on that f-ing property. My obedience costs to damn much money.
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Old 08-03-2016, 03:13 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Lmao, as a teacher for 6 years I never heard that term of endearment. Thanks for the chuckle.

As much as I don't know you (probably never met) and dislike you based on historic posts, I think you got the part about Jack Sweeney almost spot on. I don't believe it had anything to do with property owners, only JS really knows, but when and how he put into motion the blasting of LS he can rot in hell.

I haven't been to Cantina on years. It falls on my dad's birthday, he will be 98 this year. WW2, Korea, Vietnam. I'd rather spend time with him.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:53 PM   #25 (permalink)
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If you care to look at the rtf budget the claim that they use the foundation for a personal bank is just sad, the amount of money involved is not all that staggering and IMO is not enough for the work they are trying to accomplish much less to be used as a bank roll.
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