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Old 08-21-2017, 01:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Out Houses

To the people who pump out the Out Houses,
I have noticed the out houses every where but Buck Island are reasonable to use, the frequency of pumping seems adequate. It is not the same for the ones at Buck Island, water and camping availability dictate greater usage. It is a simple fact they need to be pumped more frequently. It seems simple, pump Buck Island more often and reduce the pumping at other locations. People will POO no matter what!! Other opinions please.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clb 017 View Post
I bet barb will let you use the mog anytime you like...
NOT
And Johns looking for volunteers. Shit talkers

We used to poop in a bag and haul it next to the old lady
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
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lol.

The toilet at WWS campground was so full it was halfway up the plastic back in mid July when I was camped over there.


Im sure they would love volunteers to take care of that.
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Old 08-21-2017, 10:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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To the People who bitch about the facilities on the trail

Donate to those who clean up after your shit
Help them by following the simple rules they set forth (they are posted in each location for your reading pleasure while you enjoy a comfortable shit)
If you have a concern or issue, ASK THEM dont make demands or act as if its your right, I dont care what or how much you think you've done.

The only people with the right to bitch about the commodes are the ones who clean them.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:44 AM   #6 (permalink)
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X2........plus get a PETT...and never use a outhouse again and be responsible for your own shit.

Rubicon Trail Sanitation Issues and Ideas
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Old 08-22-2017, 11:12 AM   #7 (permalink)
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The point of the post is to get realistic solutions, not defensive smart ass remarks. The Mog is not available for others to use, most people will use the woods not a bag if the Johns are full. This is a land issue and those on the other side are looking to shutdown the trail. Toilet paper and shit on the trail, near the camps are just more fuel for closing the trails. The original intent of the outhouses was to prevent such practices and when full do not serve that purpose. Now people are leaving bags of SHIT in the outhouses right next to the seat. How many people will be willing to use the facility when sitting right next to someone else's Crap. How about the county hiring an individual, insuring them and with John's permission driving the Mog? Just an idea!!
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Old 08-22-2017, 11:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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How soon they forget.

John is on trail and coming off today and he can reply about frequency. It is everyone's responsibility to use WAG bags, if the bathrooms are full. There is no excuse for not using them. It is our responsibility as responsible wheelers to use toilets or Wag bag. Period. I'm hoping this was discussed at Steak and Stories.

I can tell you it is a very dangerous ride down to Buck and back (you imagine material sloshing back and forth going up/down slabs)...so it's no small feat. Hiring someone is not an option. It's been explored.

Wag bags are free, they are handed out at the Kiosk and there is a free dispenser at the Kiosk that the USFS picks up on Monday. Frankly, it feels good to give the USFS shit.

There is no toilet right now on the RTF Property and WAG bags or driving to toilet are your options.
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Old 08-22-2017, 12:12 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal_Chris View Post
lol.

The toilet at WWS campground was so full it was halfway up the plastic back in mid July when I was camped over there.
WWS toilet is USFS.
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Old 08-22-2017, 12:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The point of the post is to get realistic solutions, not defensive smart ass remarks.
Maybe if you were more clear with your original post you wouldn't get smart ass answers. Read it again and see why you got the responses you did.
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Old 08-22-2017, 01:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by atvobsession View Post

Wag bags are free, they are handed out at the Kiosk and there is a free dispenser at the Kiosk that the USFS picks up on Monday. Frankly, it feels good to give the USFS shit.

There is no toilet right now on the RTF Property and WAG bags or driving to toilet are your options.
I realized the property just opened, but could a wag bad dispenser be placed there as well?

Oh, and thank you John for taking our sh*t (literally)
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Old 08-22-2017, 01:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Fuck can't people even bring their own ...what next a Bidet
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Fuck can't people even bring their own ...what next a Bidet
Well since the Kiosk/wag bag station was made possible by FOTR/RTF, it seems like a good suggestion.

As for the Bidet, my on board shower is hand held.
I'm sure your BF could show you how well it works.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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and there is a free dispenser at the Kiosk that the USFS picks up on Monday. Frankly, it feels good to give the USFS shit.
Just a heads up. The Blue WAG bag dispenser hasn't been at the kiosk for months. I believe it has been gone since the end of last year.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Just a heads up. The Blue WAG bag dispenser hasn't been at the kiosk for months. I believe it has been gone since the end of last year.
Damn..I never noticed it was gone.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I realized the property just opened, but could a wag bad dispenser be placed there as well?

Oh, and thank you John for taking our sh*t (literally)
Definitely will have some down there...and I'd like to have toilet at some point....I'll let John decide if the Mog can make it.
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Get a 2 1/2 gallon bucket with a screw on lid. Double plastic bags inside with kitty litter and some baby wipes! Then you don't worry one way or another
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:10 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Get a 2 1/2 gallon bucket with a screw on lid. Double plastic bags inside with kitty litter and some baby wipes! Then you don't worry one way or another
Old school...it works!!!

This sounds simple, it just poo, right? Not so, it is a very complicated problem. Here's my .02.

The toilets at Buck fill faster than the rest of the toilets on the trail, we know that. Currently the toilets at Buck are emptied twice as often as the rest of the trail. Used to be the ones at Little Sluice, but the population has moved.

That being said, they have never been unusable. Most of the time when I'm told they need emptying, they are less than half full. When I get complaints that they are un-useable, they generally are full, but useable.

So here's the problem...poo is dry, pee is wet. Most vault toilets get a combination of both, like they might at a construction site, for example. In the Rubicon, everybody poos in the toilet, but almost no one pees in the toilet. So the poo prevails. Being dry, it mounds up. So that means that I am bringing the unimog down there for a half full toilet that would be better served by a little water and a stir stick. Pretty disgusting, but it's true.

Bottom line is, the toilets at Buck are sucked out every two weeks and the toilets on the rest of the trail get it every three. RTF would love to be able to wave a wand and do more, but this is about the max we can do without doubling our fundraising. Sound ridiculous? It's the difference between having a volunteer director do it every two weeks and hiring someone to do it more often. Why is that so expensive? Because it's a hazardous job and Worker's comp, insurance, Haz Mat requirements, etc. for an EMPLOYEE are very much more expensive than when one of the principles of the corporation do it. Corporation, you say? Yup, RTF is a 501 c(3) nonprofit corporation, and we have to operate in that world in order to operate at all.

I'm super excited to hear from anyone who 1) wants to be a director of RTF and clean toilets, or 2) has a constructive solution, or 3) has a source of funds to hire an employee and pay for their work doing this job.


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Old 08-29-2017, 12:21 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Some other points to be made...

The El Dorado County parks department has responsibility for the Rubicon, but their funding is literally year to year. This year they chose to spend some money fixing the WWS road that the DOT wouldn't because they have too many other priorities after the harsh winter we had. Why? Because they felt it was important to get the Forest Service access to WWS campground so they can pump the toilet there. Hasn't happened yet, but it hasn't been long. Crossing my fingers on that one.

The mog can make it to the RTF property. Developing the property is a priority for RTF. I would love to see toilets and a full time weekend caretaker there next year. This stuff doesn't just happen. RSSI has been running the springs for for forty years and just put a a viable toilet solution in place two years ago. They eliminated their last pit toilet this year. I'm happy about that, not criticizing...but it's a good illustration...shit ain't easy.
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:18 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Old school...it works!!!

This sounds simple, it just poo, right? Not so, it is a very complicated problem. Here's my .02.

The toilets at Buck fill faster than the rest of the toilets on the trail, we know that. Currently the toilets at Buck are emptied twice as often as the rest of the trail. Used to be the ones at Little Sluice, but the population has moved.

That being said, they have never been unusable. Most of the time when I'm told they need emptying, they are less than half full. When I get complaints that they are un-useable, they generally are full, but useable.

So here's the problem...poo is dry, pee is wet. Most vault toilets get a combination of both, like they might at a construction site, for example. In the Rubicon, everybody poos in the toilet, but almost no one pees in the toilet. So the poo prevails. Being dry, it mounds up. So that means that I am bringing the unimog down there for a half full toilet that would be better served by a little water and a stir stick. Pretty disgusting, but it's true.

Bottom line is, the toilets at Buck are sucked out every two weeks and the toilets on the rest of the trail get it every three. RTF would love to be able to wave a wand and do more, but this is about the max we can do without doubling our fundraising. Sound ridiculous? It's the difference between having a volunteer director do it every two weeks and hiring someone to do it more often. Why is that so expensive? Because it's a hazardous job and Worker's comp, insurance, Haz Mat requirements, etc. for an EMPLOYEE are very much more expensive than when one of the principles of the corporation do it. Corporation, you say? Yup, RTF is a 501 c(3) nonprofit corporation, and we have to operate in that world in order to operate at all.

I'm super excited to hear from anyone who 1) wants to be a director of RTF and clean toilets, or 2) has a constructive solution, or 3) has a source of funds to hire an employee and pay for their work doing this job.


Regards,

John
530-651-3028
All very legitimate, reasonable answers. Toilets on the Rubicon have been an issue for as long as I can remember. Anyone recall the make shift shitters at Spider Lake? I do and I also recall pouring blue stuff in them and stirring them with a stick because they were full every weekend. I also recall someone driving over them and dragging shit everywhere around the lake. It was at that point I realized we were doomed.

Poop is a problem. In looking back over some old posts I found several from our adversaries using the toilet situation as a tool for closures. Even going as far as questioning RTF's use of grant fund money for pumping. Its a problem and always will be.

Just so I am clear, it would appear from your response John that the current situation dictates that only a RTF board member can drive the MOG. I would ask, who other than yourself has been trained to do so? There are currently 15 board members but you are asking for some to step up and join the board to drive the truck. I know this is with out a doubt a hard position to fill but I'll ask the question all the same. I worry what happens if you are out of commission, honestly.

Like anything else trail related I would say (Forever the optimist) that education, signage and communication could go a long way to help the situation. You asked for solutions and ideas. I'll throw some out there.

Signage at Trail Heads addressing the concerns with toilets. "If toilets are full please use a wag bag etc etc", "Our funds are used for pumping toilets, please don't use if not needed" Word it how you want but you get the point.

Stock the toilets with WAG bags. They are given out at the Kiosks, why not put them where they might actually get used. Encourage people to take them home with them.

Wag Bag depository. Maybe the blue wag bag type depository could be put at the toilets that see the highest use. It must be easier to transport wag bags than wet poop in a truck.

Education and communication. This is the biggest thing from my perspective. When was the last time RTF had a true, large, get together of folks from an educational point of view? Not a preaching lesson just a true, down home, chit chat about current issues, concerns and problems. Why not let the folks know about the things that are true issues for RTF to handle, request some help preventing them. Let the folks know how important it is. Let the folks know that "Poop Kills". Just the same as a guy not knowing that a stock JK axle won't handle 37" tires, he may not understand the relevance of leaving his shit in the woods. Not everyone has been around as long as some of us. Things that might seem a matter of course for us may not seem as important to others.

"Bathrooms are a Luxury. Please use them wisely" You get the idea

Cantina is right around the corner. Maybe a small segment about bathroom issues. Maybe a demonstration, make it funny but informational. Make the point as clear as crystal, the bathrooms are a luxury that are to be used sparingly and wisely. Maybe I have more faith in our community than others but I think this would go a long way. "Think twice before you drop that deuce in the crapper". Maybe next years cantina could have a slogan about crappers printed on the raffle tickets "Poop Kills". The possibilities are endless.

Look at that, no bickering, no squabbling just honest to goodness discussion and problem solving. Thanks for everything RTF does and I know you can overcome this shitty problem
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:45 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I'm hoping this was discussed at Steak and Stories.
It was along with other items and along those lines I can say with up most pride in our community, the whole area was left cleaner than we found it with not a poop, TP, or litter to be found. I'm sure with RTF being the leader in trail education this will be on top of the list at Cantina and for that I thank you in advance. Great Job RTF
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Old 08-29-2017, 01:05 PM   #22 (permalink)
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It was along with other items and along those lines I can say with up most pride in our community, the whole area was left cleaner than we found it with not a poop, TP, or litter to be found. I'm sure with RTF being the leader in trail education this will be on top of the list at Cantina and for that I thank you in advance. Great Job RTF
Great to hear, I couldn't attend due to the property grand opening, but deputies told me they were really happy how it went.

We all know "poo management" is a key item to keep "you know who" far away.
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Old 08-30-2017, 07:16 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Might need to join the board just for the challenge of driving that poo wagon
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Old 08-30-2017, 08:49 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Might need to join the board just for the challenge of driving that poo wagon
Finally broke down and joined instead of trolling for 10yrs....
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Old 08-30-2017, 08:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Might need to join the board just for the challenge of driving that poo wagon
It is interesting, I'll say that.

Problem is, the driver is the operator at the business end as well. That's challenging too!
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