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Old 06-27-2018, 10:21 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Mother Nature gives and Mother Nature takes away.

Some interesting stuff of note:

The County did erosion work on the rock garden area you're talking about (known as Property Line) that may have affected that spot.

RTF put 40,000+ pounds if rock in a stockpile at the top of Cadillac for use by an upcoming FOTR work party. The scope is to do a gabion in the dirt section below Little V to stabilize the trail. This won't make the trail easier per se, but will stabilize that piece of the trail. Important because if the dirt portions of the trail on hillsides slough, we don't have any recourse, no way to reconstruct.

On the Miller to Tahoma section, El Dorado and Placer Counties are working on a cooperative agreement in this area that will make maintenance efforts easier and better overall. Again, this work is erosion control and anti-sedimentation work.

Interesting that you took note of areas that are on the radar.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:50 AM   #27 (permalink)
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When you're in a vehicle that's near it's limit - the differences are probably more obvious than if I were in my rock crawler.

FWIW - I felt like the overall trail difficulty level was just about right. Of course that evaluation differs for everyone. If I had brought my crawler on 40's there's plenty to keep me entertained too. If I were in a stock wrangler I'd be complaining it was too hard. As it is - in a moderately built 4runner on 34's small mistakes would have resulted in body damage - although I didn't have any. But it also wasn't so hard that I couldn't get through with careful driving on 34" tires and lockers. From my view - the FOTR and others are doing a great job of keeping the trail in sort of the goldilocks condition overall. Hard enough to have fun, but not hard enough that only unimogs and tube buggies can make it. I know it doesn't stay that way on its own. Thanks for doing what you do!

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Old 07-23-2018, 11:38 AM   #28 (permalink)
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FYI fire restrictions are in place now.
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Old 07-23-2018, 04:03 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I don't think there was any fill put in the rock garden at bottom of big sluice, it just changes as the rocks get shoved around, sometimes its a walk and others it spits you out a few times, that spot has been good for lots of breaks but lots of fun too.
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Old 07-23-2018, 04:52 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jpet View Post
FYI fire restrictions are in place now.
As of today or when?
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:29 PM   #31 (permalink)
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7-14-18 so says the forest service
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Old 07-24-2018, 08:45 AM   #32 (permalink)
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7-14-18 so says the forest service
Yup and FYI, fire restrictions mean NO portable gas campfire. Cook stove only (with permit)
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Old 07-24-2018, 12:01 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Yup and FYI, fire restrictions mean NO portable gas campfire. Cook stove only (with permit)
can I ask where you got this information from?

pressurized stoves and fire rings have always been allowed in the past.

welding is also not allowed, so don't break anything
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Old 07-24-2018, 12:17 PM   #34 (permalink)
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From US Forest service Website:

Fire restrictions go into effect on the Eldorado National Forest beginning Saturday, July 14, announced Forest Supervisor Laurence Crabtree. Wood and charcoal fires will be restricted to designated recreation sites and other fire related activities will be prohibited until the end of fire season. Gas or propane fires are allowed with a free 2018 California campfire permit.

"While I am always cautious about imposing restrictions on visitors, conditions in the forest and in California have reached a point that restricting campfires to campgrounds is appropriate" said Crabtree. "Visitors can help protect their forest by educating others about fire danger and reporting abandoned or illegal fires to 911 or to the nearest Ranger Station."

Also on July 14, the Stanislaus National Forest will begin fire restrictions in the Moore Creek area along the North Fork of the Mokelumne River which is accessed through the Eldorado National Forest.

On National Forest System Lands, fire restrictions mean:

No wood or charcoal fires are allowed outside of exempted recreation sites (see Forest Order) even with a valid campfire permit.
No smoking, except within an enclosed vehicle, building or exempted recreation site.
Operating a welding or other torch with an open flame is prohibited.
Operating an internal combustion engine without a properly operating spark arrestor is prohibited.
Lanterns and portable stoves using gas, kerosene, jellied petroleum or pressurized liquid fuel are allowed with a valid 2018 California Campfire Permit available at Prevent Wildfire - California Campfire Permit Online or from Forest Service offices during normal business hours.
Those with a valid 2018 wood cutting permit may cut firewood in compliance with the terms of their permit.
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Old 07-24-2018, 12:28 PM   #35 (permalink)
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can I ask where you got this information from?

pressurized stoves and fire rings have always been allowed in the past.

welding is also not allowed, so don't break anything
I called the number on this website:

Rubicon Trail Foundation

1-888-6RUBICON (678-2426)

... forgot the name of the lady I talked to but she told me that campfire in fire rings are only approved at these designated sites:

http://files.constantcontact.com/1ee...af6e277395.pdf

... she then went on to say that none of the camping spots on the trail are considered "designated sites" She was clear to me that no fires are permitted on the trail during these restrictions.

Then I went to this website and I talked to Jennifer Chapman: 530 957-9660

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/eldor...d=FSEPRD586742

... I asked her if a gas campfire (fire pit) is permitted. At first she was not sure so she took my number. After an hour she called me back and told me that a gas fire pit is NOT permitted during fire restriction. Cook stove only with a permit.

If anyone has any other information to contradict this, please post up. I'd like to know as I am planning a trip soon.
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:59 PM   #36 (permalink)
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... I asked her if a gas campfire (fire pit) is permitted. At first she was not sure so she took my number. After an hour she called me back and told me that a gas fire pit is NOT permitted during fire restriction. Cook stove only with a permit.
I have a call into Jennifer to get clarification.

in the past, if the fire could be turned of with a knob, it was allowed. People even brought them by the Forest Service office to make sure they were OK.

I just want to find if they have changed their policy, or if they are just being overly cautious. (which I do understand as well).
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:16 PM   #37 (permalink)
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"Gas or propane fires are allowed with a free 2018 California campfire permit."
Quoted from above.
Sounds like propane fire is good. At the end of the day it's up to the Deputy or Ranger no matter what the internet says.
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Old 07-24-2018, 06:18 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I have used my camp fire in a can on the trail during fire restrictions and have had the sheriff check to make sure I had a permit and there were no other issues. I do believe they said the same as above, " It can be turned off, doesn't produce air born embers, enjoy. The fire pits at Loon Lake North Shore campground can be used during restrictions. So you can run the trail and return to Loon for evening festivities.
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:09 PM   #39 (permalink)
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"Gas or propane fires are allowed with a free 2018 California campfire permit."
Quoted from above.
Sounds like propane fire is good. At the end of the day it's up to the Deputy or Ranger no matter what the internet says.
I do agree with this comment.
they need to have the release wording the same as the Forest Order wording
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Old 07-25-2018, 07:02 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
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"Gas or propane fires are allowed with a free 2018 California campfire permit."
Quoted from above.
Sounds like propane fire is good. ...
When I spoke to the forest service yesterday, I pointed out that wording. Jennifer Chapman told me, that she agrees that the wording is misleading. She went on to tell me that the gas campfire is not permitted because it is "open flame"

Quote:
Originally Posted by WLDWUN View Post
I do agree with this comment.
they need to have the release wording the same as the Forest Order wording
I was told that the Forest Service is going to meet to discuss the matter and change the wording so that it is more clear. They told me that the wording is confusing because gas campfires are relatively new and they had not really been considered. (paraphrasing her words).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyjed
....At the end of the day it's up to the Deputy or Ranger no matter what the internet says.
Yep. If "maybe" is good enough for you, then I'd say go for it. I'm not trying to sway anyone. I'm just telling you what I was told by the Eldorado FS.

To be clear, I'm talking about these things:

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Old 07-25-2018, 09:43 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Wording this, wording that. Is it really any surprise the Forest service cant get their preverbal shit together with their laws?

Either way, here's a few things to think about. The lows right now are in the high 50's and highs in the 90's. Its dry as shit out there. Possibility for a wild fire is super high. We've already had a few close calls on the trail this year.

Do what you got to do but for the love of pete, be smart about it. Don't burn our trail down or the forest.
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Old 07-25-2018, 12:42 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Gas camp fires, like the picture I posted earlier, are NOT allowed during fire restrictions. This comes from Forest Service Law Enforcement Capt Frank Aguilar.
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Old 07-25-2018, 01:07 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Jpet is correct and there has been a NOTE added to the Forest Service site on the fire restrictions page regarding that "Gas & Propane fires in stoves & lanterns are o.k. "

I offer that I can put the grill on the camp fire in a can and it becomes a stove. As protected as the big camp stoves you see. You know the big black ones with legs and up to 4 burners.

I would also say that a propane camp stove is an open flame as well. The camp fire in a can open flame is similar. In fact, I have seen camp stoves that have larger burners than the camp fire in a can does.
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Old 07-25-2018, 04:56 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I thought the reason propane fires were allowed prior to this discussion is they don't put off embers like a real fire. Sucks we can't even use those anymore
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Old 07-25-2018, 06:09 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I thought the reason propane fires were allowed prior to this discussion is they don't put off embers like a real fire. Sucks we can't even use those anymore
Don't loose faith just yet. It sounds like they are going to meet and discuss making some changes that could allow them. Here is the email I got from Jennifer today:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer Chapman
Hi Jeff – Here is the clarification sent out to all employees on our forest. Our website is also being updated. Allowing gas fire pits will be reviewed -- they are not a stated exemption in the current forest order. Any changes would be a process that takes a while (regional office review, etc.) so there won’t be changes before this weekend. I know you will have a great time on the Rubicon Trail regardless. Thank you again for asking about this.
Sincerely --
Jennifer

From: Chapman, Jennifer A -FS
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2018 12:47 PM
Subject: gas fire pits - fire restrictions
Importance: High

We have received a number of questions from the public about what kinds of gas fire devices are allowed under our fire restrictions.

Fire management staff is reviewing the question of whether or not to restrict gas fire pits like the example in the photo attached.

The current Forest Order on Fire Restrictions does not identify these types of units as exempt.

A “gas fire pit” is not a “portable stove or lantern.”

An addendum to the current forest order would be needed for gas fire pits to be allowed.

Until an addendum is issued, gas fire pits are not allowed under the current fire restrictions in the Eldorado National Forest.

Please refer to the highlighted sections of the Forest Order attached.
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:32 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Headed in friday, what's the bug situation now?
Looking forward to the taco's first trip.
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:08 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I had 2 jellowjacket traps filled 1/2 full in 4 days. They are very aggressive when cooking.
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Old 09-03-2018, 02:50 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Thank you sir.
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:26 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by resqme View Post

RTF put 40,000+ pounds if rock in a stockpile at the top of Cadillac for use by an upcoming FOTR work party. The scope is to do a gabion in the dirt section below Little V to stabilize the trail. This won't make the trail easier per se, but will stabilize that piece of the trail. Important because if the dirt portions of the trail on hillsides slough, we don't have any recourse, no way to reconstruct.

John, did this happen? Some of that area is getting narrower and narrower...
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:16 AM   #50 (permalink)
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It did. If you were there recently you saw the 30 foot long gabion with the trail built up about 2' in the area below Little V, the area of most immediate concern. I'm not saying there aren't other areas, and as a matter of fact, FOTR is working on the water bar at the top this weekend. Expect much more in the next few years, either FOTR/RTF or gubment or all of the above.

John
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