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View Poll Results: Do you favor opening up Little Sluice
Yes - Blast the rocks and cobble it smooth 11 2.68%
Yes - remove large rocks but leave it somewhat tough, but doable 76 18.54%
No - it wouldn't do any good at this time! 29 7.07%
No - Never - Leave the box alone! 294 71.71%
Voters: 410. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-31-2009, 12:00 AM   #176 (permalink)
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I cant believe there is even talk of this nonsense. Where I'm a suposed to brake now?Taking the sluice box away? Thats like no women at a strip club, no animals at the zoo, well you know what I mean..... Whats the use of even going? Bypass and sluice box.... without both of them how are they gonna seperate the men from the boys? Like most married men hear... "LEAVE THE BOX ALONE"!

SAMMY OUT.
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:09 AM   #177 (permalink)
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Ya I heard some where once it is 1,400,000....
don't forget that is every month
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:10 AM   #178 (permalink)
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I cant believe there is even talk of this nonsense. Where I'm a suposed to brake now?Taking the sluice box away? Thats like no women at a strip club, no animals at the zoo, well you know what I mean..... Whats the use of even going? Bypass and sluice box.... without both of them how are they gonna seperate the men from the boys? Like most married men hear... "LEAVE THE BOX ALONE"!

SAMMY OUT.

Take the sluice box away? Like into thin air? Sweet!!! Harry Potter must be showin up with his magic wand, how bout his sidekick Herminee she gonna be there too?? Oooooooh I’d like to do some maintenance in her box…

YOU are the poster child for exactly why the rocks need to be resized.. Let me guess, you voted "LEAVE THE BOX ALONE"...you just don’t get it...

Yea the trail with a maintained box is exactly like a night club with no chicks and no beer, it’ll be just a bunch of gay sober dudes, just stay home, break your sh*t in your driveway...

men enjoy the trail, boys go solely to break in the box..

dude you totally made my morning thanks!
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:39 AM   #179 (permalink)
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I cant believe there is even talk of this nonsense. Where I'm a suposed to brake now?Taking the sluice box away? Thats like no women at a strip club, no animals at the zoo, well you know what I mean..... Whats the use of even going? Bypass and sluice box.... without both of them how are they gonna seperate the men from the boys? Like most married men hear... "LEAVE THE BOX ALONE"!

SAMMY OUT.
Please don't talk anymore If you want to drive the box EVER again.
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:51 AM   #180 (permalink)
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I said it along time ago and I said it when I was a Director on the RTF. Decisions and direction in the County happen behind closed doors (Big Ones). Its at BBQ's, quiet conversations between bigwigs and people who are or think they are in the "KNOW".

While Public input and meetings are great and meets requirements, there is another element on the Rubicon that did'nt exist or was'nt apparent years ago. That element is Private Property Owners with Cabins on cabins being built at Spider lake and other propertys along the trail. It is my opinion that these folks have a vested interest in the long term Lil Sluice solution. If I had a cabin over the hill I might think differently as well. Don't discredit the weight these folfs hold with the powers to be at the DOT & County level.

Lance said what I have been holding back from saying. The Lil Sluice will be modified to some extent and that is a fact. The total extent and when it will happen is the $1000 question.

Thats my opinion...take it for what its worth.

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Old 07-31-2009, 10:55 AM   #181 (permalink)
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I want the trail to endure for the future. If that means undoing criminal acts from the past, so be it. If it turns out the rocks are ok, and the bypass is feasible, then so be it. They can stay. The bypass is available. Take it.

If the trail was one way, the vehicle erosive effect could be effectively cut in half. Your idea, not mine.

If the rocks are OK, and the legality is debatable. Why don't the rollers step out here in the light of day ? It has been said here that they are known.

Come on out.
I honestly can't remember one way traffic being my idea
That would make single day trips to the area impossible for a lot of folks. Also, what about the peeps that camp at Loon and go into the trail for the day?

What good would it do to expose the perpetrators? Personally, I know of one such person, told to me from that persons club member. Not from a county near Eldo. AFAIAC, it does not matter at this point. Rocks are there, there IS a bypass that has been established for decades. The bypass consists of mostly rock slabs. There are plenty of volunteer groups that are willing to put the sweat into maintaining the last leg of it.

It has been no harm, no foul for tens of years to go around the LS. I have seen people flop their rigs in odd areas of the trail for whatever reasons. Not just "xtreme" wheelers, rigs of all styles, with people young and old. Bottom line is, education is key. Spill kits are key. Peer enforcement is key. I don't imagine there is anyone on that trail that would take offense to someone politely handing them an informational flyer and be told the proper trail use.

IMO, paving the LS may impact the numbers of campers in the area, but I don't think by much. It is a great place to camp. Not to dusty, plenty of open space, safe for camp fires, and the lake close by. Good distance into the trail for the folks that make a few day trip out of it. Honestly, other than Ellis, LS, Buck, Springs, where else is there to camp that is decent? Middle of Cadillac? Bronco rock? Top of the Big Sluice?

The CAO is full of nothing but coulds, mays, possibles. My septic tank at home could, may, possibly leak one day, but I keep doing my business.

How many rigs were parked at RS this and last weekend during the Jambo's? Think all those rigs were leak free? No body had to work on there rigs? How much poo was laid down? How many rigs plunged through the river to get to camp? How did the poo get dealt with? What is the big deal with the same tactics being employed on other parts of the trail? Same general area, same soil, same water shed. Private land, public land, county land/road, who cares. Still same water shed. Any official peeps run out to RS and take soil/water samples after the events, like they did at spider after a large weekend one year? And if so, what are the results? Just more coulds, maybe's, potentials, possibles? Lots of official, double standard BS is happening on that trail.

Wow, there are some big honkin rocks in the middle of a SLUICE BOX(gee, wonder how it got that name) in the middle of an unmaintained county road, AKA a 4wd trail, that is hard as heck to navigate. People actually go there to attempt to conquer it, and camp next to it. Other people go there to watch those people attempt it. Those people are having fun! A lot of those wheelers drive back out the same way they came in.

All of that sounds pretty darn terrible to me

The Agenda wheels are turning fast. I honestly feel that my voice has no chance to slow that wheel down. Writing letters with solutions to people in charge does exactly what? Gives them new ideas? People waaaay smarter than me have been proposing solutions for years, but those solutions seem to be shot out of the air as quick as they are presented. Red tape BS. Cant put put crappers in an area, makes for a de facto gathering area. Cant put crappers there, too many rocks. Cant put crappers there, cant haul it out/potential for spills. Potential for oil spillage and water/soil contamination.

How in the heck the trees survive next to I-80 and HWY 50 I'll never be able to figure out, as well as the fish and the red legged frogs in the American and Yuba Rivers. Maybe all the business gathering monies from visitors to Tahoe and Reno are providing protective suites to the fish and frogs, IDK?

Bottom line is that if it were such and environmental catastrophe like the Nazi's are claiming along with the lawsuits, that trail would have been closed long ago. Thank you to those who keep firing back!

This is not rocket science. Build some silt traps were needed. Put some crappers in place along sections of the trail. Get a pump truck to haul out the poo and take it to the proper sanitation place instead of WAG bags ending up in the landfills. Haul and place rock in needed areas to control erosion. Keep pushing education and handing out spill kits. Document trail abuse, report it, and make sure the proper agencies enforce heavily through either loss of privilege, or large fines. Get a DUI, loose your license. Abuse the trail, loose your ability to use it. Make it pay to use, per person. Fund the poo removal, wag bags, spill kits, signage. Abusers don't get a pass. Would it be so difficult to take a quick look at vehicles entering the trail for signs of fluid leaks, possession of spill kits, etc. Turn em back, they don't get to go. I have seen people that visit the trail that only seem to do maintenance to their rigs on the trail. Then they go home and park it. Junk, garbage, decrepit rigs that have no business being on the pavement, let alone the trail. Tell those people to take there crap back home and fix it.

I don't like my tax dollars being put towards projects or programs I don't agree with. So why should someone else's taxes be spent on things I want, but they don't necessarily. I have over 50k in my rig alone. Add in all the peripherals......trailer, tow rig, camping gear, equipment, and it turns into a bunch of money. I sure as heck would be willing to pay some type of use fee. Sorry if that makes some of you mad, but something has to pay for it. The land is public, ours to use responsibly. It's not the governments job to babysit you and provide you with your lifestyle. (unlike the liberal freaks that think the government is the all mighty provider)

I'm just getting myself all spun up. I have work to do. I'm out.
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:55 AM   #182 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by UGET IT View Post
I said it along time ago and I said it when I was a Director on the RTF. Decisions and direction in the County happen behind closed doors (Big Ones). Its at BBQ's, quiet conversations between bigwigs and people who are or think they are in the "KNOW".

While Public input and meetings are great and meets requirements, there is another element on the Rubicon that did'nt exist or was'nt apparent years ago. That element is Private Property Owners with Cabins on cabins being built at Spider lake and other propertys along the trail. It is my opinion that these folks have a vested interest in the long term Lil Sluice solution. If I had a cabin over the hill I might think differently as well. Don't discredit the weight these folfs hold with the powers to be at the DOT & County level.

Lance said what I have been holding back from saying. The Lil Sluice will be modified to some extent and that is a fact. The total extent and when it will happen is the $1000 question.

Thats my opinion...take it for what its worth.

Kevin Carey
I'm going to hope that a public process will at least allow us the opportunity to manage the area with volunteers before the decision is made to crack the rocks.

Hope against hope.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:43 AM   #183 (permalink)
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I said it along time ago and I said it when I was a Director on the RTF. Decisions and direction in the County happen behind closed doors (Big Ones). Its at BBQ's, quiet conversations between bigwigs and people who are or think they are in the "KNOW".

While Public input and meetings are great and meets requirements, there is another element on the Rubicon that did'nt exist or was'nt apparent years ago. That element is Private Property Owners with Cabins on cabins being built at Spider lake and other propertys along the trail. It is my opinion that these folks have a vested interest in the long term Lil Sluice solution. If I had a cabin over the hill I might think differently as well. Don't discredit the weight these folfs hold with the powers to be at the DOT & County level.

Lance said what I have been holding back from saying. The Lil Sluice will be modified to some extent and that is a fact. The total extent and when it will happen is the $1000 question.

Thats my opinion...take it for what its worth.

Kevin Carey
Good Lord Kevin, how are they going to put in septic tanks? I heard that cant be done.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:47 AM   #184 (permalink)
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yes

to all you said keith. But in reality it is not that simple. It is a complicated world. Going back about four days and hundreds of posts ago...... it's what the Water Board and County see that matters.

They see what some here also see.

To deny that is denial. They see dust, runoff, and LS that smells like an oily garage.

Not saying it can't and won't be fixed or get better.

The example of the Rubicon Springs you offered is perfect.

There is no known or shown concentration of oil contamination there. If there is, please illustrate it for us here.

The poo there is going into poopers. Composting semi permanent structures. Made of South African Plastic HDPE. About $4,500 each.

A reputable source, a stakeholder if you will, surveyed 50 LS user/campers a few a weeks ago. They were asked if they had a porta potty or WAG.

Three individuals thought someone in there group had a shovel. The rest had nothing.

That's one of the problems.

It doesn't mean that LS users are all abusers. It doesn't mean that campers in ....other areas are perfect. But LS is a potential concentration point. Same for oil and grease. If it is evident there, we all have a very serious problem.

Last time I walked the sluice, July 19, I had to step around a pool of oil, and watch the rest of the way. We gotta do better folks.

The trail will be closed because of it, not Jeepers in the Jamboree.

I asked about the Boulder Felons because it's a case of integrity. If they feel so strongly about it, then prove it.

I said this before and I will say it again. We just dodged a bullet. The CAO almost wiped out the trail. Go back and read the battle there. That is one future. The other, alternate future is one where the effort conducted by organized groups to maintain the trail takes off and becomes a huge, cooperative effort. The effort includes the County. I gather some here feel we have reached that point. All this thread has done is pitch us against each other.

What you should be saying is.......

" Lil Uzi, I lead a group that uses the LS. We are there Fri, Sat, Sun. If we find anybody without a WAG, we give them one and an informative, friendly piece of advice. And same with spill kits. And we watch the box and jump in when we see a break and spill. And we help ensure that the spill is cleaned up"

Right ? If we all did that, we win.

I hope some of you post up and say " yes, that is what we do".

I'll be there to scrub the junk off with you.

To the Administrator: How many e-mails has Tom Celio received now ??
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:02 PM   #185 (permalink)
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Geesh! I was just having fun (poopy pants). Whatever happens is gonna happen. I'm just hopin that the kids that built and are building thier rigs to make it through the only challenging part of the rubicon can have as much fun times as I had making it and possibly breaking it in there. Good luck "big rox in the box" supporters.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:19 PM   #186 (permalink)
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Letter Sent.

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Old 07-31-2009, 01:08 PM   #187 (permalink)
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IMO, paving the LS may impact the numbers of campers in the area, but I don't think by much.
1...I don't think there are any plans to pave LC, maintenance, all roads need maintenance..


Quote:

How many rigs were parked at RS this and last weekend during the Jambo's? Same general area, same soil, same water shed. Still same water shed. Any official peeps run out to RS and take soil/water samples after the events, like they did at spider after a large weekend one year?
2... NO not the same soil, RS has enough sand/soil for pit toilets LS is solid Granite. Yes i believe it's the same water shed. When i had it in for the Jambo folks i thought the same thing. BUt try and go in there grab a soil or water sample and you'll get sued to hell...

Quote:

Wow, there are some big honkin rocks in the middle of a SLUICE BOX(gee, wonder how it got that name) in the middle of an unmaintained county road, AKA a 4wd trail, that is hard as heck to navigate.
3... Yes it is a public road not a OHV park

Quote:

Cant put crappers in an area, makes for a de facto gathering area. Cant put crappers there, too many rocks. Cant put crappers there, cant haul it out/potential for spills.
This is not rocket science.
4.... well actually proper waste removal is science and very tricky on bedrock and at high altitude

Quote:

Get a pump truck to haul out the poo and take it to the proper sanitation place instead of WAG bags ending up in the landfills.
5... we crunched the numbers on what it would cost to truck/dump a load of hazardous waste to a landfill in sac from LS every weekend, it wasn't pretty.


Quote:
Make it pay to use, per person. Fund the poo removal, wag bags, spill kits, signage. Abusers don't get a pass. Would it be so difficult to take a quick look at vehicles entering the trail for signs of fluid leaks, possession of spill kits, etc. Turn em back, they don't get to go.
6... this is an excelent idea, round the clock inspections, just like a competion or a CAl4wd run, every rig buttoned up tight like a comp buggy, permit system is a great idea just like rafters to raft a river, have a scale at each kyosk to weight your crap bag... a OBAMA would try and take it one step farther and street legals only, i think it makes it easier for law inforcment..


Quote:

I have over 50k in my rig alone. Add in all the peripherals......trailer, tow rig, camping gear, equipment, and it turns into a bunch of money. I sure as heck would be willing to pay some type of use fee.
7...... permit fees are the wave of the future just like many other parks... if it will keep the trail open for my gradkids, clean and responsible i'd pay a fee in a NY second.

Quote:

I'm just getting myself all spun up.
8... you sound a bit spun up, it's friday bro ...
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:25 PM   #188 (permalink)
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It is my opinion that these folks have a vested interest in the long term Lil Sluice solution. If I had a cabin over the hill I might think differently as well.
first i've really heard of this

when you say long term LS solution, do you mean so theres not a party there all night every weekend?



Quote:
Don't discredit the weight these folks hold with the powers to be at the DOT & County level.
truth right there!!

I'm sure you remember all the public meeting we went to fighting for Jergans trail, just one of them homewners concerns over a camp fire getting out of control inthe canyon seemed to trump the hundreds of man hours we put into that trail.
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:36 PM   #189 (permalink)
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A good chunk of the trail runs through private property. I appreciate that those property owners are flexible with us! Rubicon Soda Springs, Inc. worked with Rubicon Trail Foundation (RTF) this year to purchase/install new high-tech toilets at Rubicon Springs, and RTF worked with the Rubicon Trail Partnership to build a permanent radio vault for the Rubicon Repeater.

Take a peek at this map: http://co.el-dorado.ca.us/rubicon/pd...onTrailMap.pdf
...all the white properties are privately owned: Gerle Meadows, Wentworth Springs, the Granite Bowl, the Old Sluice and Indian Trail, and Rubicon Springs.

Some of the property owners show up to get their voice heard -- you can, too.

Randii
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:37 PM   #190 (permalink)
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6... this is an excelent idea, round the clock inspections, just like a competion or a CAl4wd run, every rig buttoned up tight like a comp buggy, permit system is a great idea just like rafters to raft a river, have a scale at each kyosk to weight your crap bag... take it one step farther and street legals only, i think it makes it easier for law inforcment..
That means no greens at all. ie- dirt bikes,quads and green stickered rigs.

i bet the dirt bike/quad guys would raise some hell
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:02 PM   #191 (permalink)
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That means no greens at all. ie- dirt bikes,quads and green stickered rigs.
It would also effectively de-fund the single largest agency contributor to the Rubicon Trail -- State Parks' Off-Highway Motor Vehicle Recreation Division. This is why the anti's so regularly try to get rid of green-sticker traffic on Rubicon -- they know that a big part of public agency and non-profit funding comes from OHMVR grant funding.

My rig has a green sticker AND a license plate, and I support trail users rights to BOTH.

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Old 07-31-2009, 02:12 PM   #192 (permalink)
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State Parks

They are the agency that funded the California Geological Survey, Trail Survey. The single best piece of science completed to date. Well, since Sweeney's folks surveyed the original trail back in the 1870's. No, sorry FLM, the greensticker link is what saved the trail in this last closure bout with RMK and the CAO. The CGS went way out on a limb for us. The connection between them and us, you and I, is the OHV and State Parks. Gotta recognize that.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:21 PM   #193 (permalink)
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That means no greens at all. ie- dirt bikes,quads and green stickered rigs.

i bet the dirt bike/quad guys would raise some hell
I am not advocating street legals only guys, let me make that clear...



yes yes, i know, I got 6 green stickers quads/bikes and street legal enduros too..
I was trying to make a point, stuck my foot in my mouth in the process... sarcasm... i don't wanna wiegh my sh*t either, and my rig will never be as tight as a comp rig, no ones gonna do round the clock inspection either ...

i am not advocating street legals only guys, let me make that clear...

please don't do burn outs on my front lawn....


I am not advocating street legals only guys, let me make that clear...
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:23 PM   #194 (permalink)
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Finally a Funnay

Har. Har What Lawn ? Is it like Randii's garage ??
Wanna Borrow some Ivy for Transplant ??
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:28 PM   #195 (permalink)
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guys, it's friday, whos up for a QUALITY BEER?
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:37 PM   #196 (permalink)
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email sent in ... and reply received....
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:52 PM   #197 (permalink)
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No reply fo me yet??
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:53 PM   #198 (permalink)
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I am...................Gotta run up to Pville though to get my HD.

We could all us some beers next week...................Maybe SillyFab & Trout would host a few fools........
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:10 PM   #199 (permalink)
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I am...................Gotta run up to Pville though to get my HD.

We could all us some beers next week...................Maybe SillyFab & Trout would host a few fools........

sounds good!!

have a good one, i'm headed to Gualala to pull some abalone!!!
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Old 07-31-2009, 06:11 PM   #200 (permalink)
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Lance said what I have been holding back from saying. The Lil Sluice will be modified to some extent and that is a fact. The total extent and when it will happen is the $1000 question.

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Kevin Carey

Word on the street, (Pville only has one street) October/November.
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