LEO Posts (staged from DUI thread) - Page 4 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Land Use and Trails > Rubicon Trail
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-20-2009, 01:54 PM   #76 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member # 126704
Posts: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman090 View Post
If your going to have a street legal registered vehicle on the con you have to have the proper equipment. If you have a green stickered vehicle on the con, you need the proper equipment. If you don't agree with the law, attempt to change it.
I think the law is fine - the interpretation is in error. Much easier to get the state to advise the county than try to change a law that the legislature won't believe needs changing.

I drive to the trail using US50 - not towed. Let's say my vehicle is dual registered but once camping by the trail, I take off items that are only required on the street but not my green sticker. Am I in violation of the law?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman090 View Post
If your dual registered we are going to generally allow for the less restrictive requirements of the green sticker in regards to equipment.
"Generally allow" generally means officer discretion - so when would it not be appropiate to allow a dual registered vehicle the less restrictive green sticker requirements?
chasinternet is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 03:18 PM   #77 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Member # 18320
Location: Lake County
Posts: 1,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by resqme View Post
Running mud flaps when rock crawling sucks because it is SO easy to back up onto them and tear them off against a rock. In the long run, dual registration is the way to go.

I hear ya though...


I have been following these type of threads for a while & do not recall anyone getting ticketed for not having mudflaps on the trail. (or for that matter any EDSO giving a c.s. ticket) I can assure you that if I were ticketed on the trail for not having flaps I would fight it in court.
elarsen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 08-20-2009, 04:21 PM   #78 (permalink)
Registered User
 
R290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Member # 46467
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 4,866
Whats CS? my brain inserted BS lol
__________________
73 IH Scout
R290 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2009, 04:26 PM   #79 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Member # 47629
Location: mountain view, ca
Posts: 323
I came out of the trail on the 16th, non legal front plate (it was sitting on my dash), no mudflaps, no fender flares, 37's that stick out 8" beyond my quarters, and clearly illegal exhaust. One of the guys behind me was even further out of road legality than I was, and another had broken windows (freshly broken, that is, you could see the glass there).

The sherrifs stopped me, asked if I had an illegal open fire (they did not ask if I had a permit for the camp stoves), asked if I had been firing a gun. No to all, asked if I had current registration, I said yes (they did not check - just asked), after which I was wished a save drive home and waved on.

They were polite and even friendly, although to the point. It was clear to me they were there to look for bigger violations .. so tell us, what did you do to earn the tickets? Other violations? attitude? loud music?

Those sherrifs were anything but petty.
__________________
[center][b][size="2"][color=yellow]Ultra4 Stock Class #4643 - Team[/color] [color=red]NAXJA[/color]/[color=DeepSkyBlue]Petty Cash Racing[/color][/size][/b][/center]

Last edited by ajcal225; 08-20-2009 at 04:44 PM.
ajcal225 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 04:41 PM   #80 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member # 126704
Posts: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by elarsen View Post
I have been following these type of threads for a while & do not recall anyone getting ticketed for not having mudflaps on the trail. (or for that matter any EDSO giving a c.s. ticket) I can assure you that if I were ticketed on the trail for not having flaps I would fight it in court.
I have little doubt that an officer willing to discuss it on message boards is the kind of officer I'd get along with in person. I'm not against officers having large discretion - but just like with a few trail users, there are problems that come up and need to be addressed.

My suggestion is post here when a ticket is issued based on having a street legal plate means you have to follow rules a green sticker does not. When it becomes a group (6 to 10) - then the practice can be stopped.

Sometimes "the law" must answer one way when asked but in practice never does it. I have refrained from comment because I saw this as a fear rather than a reality - it was the attempt at justifying the practice that got me to open my big mouth.

If I really believed this was a problem on the trail, I would even stop and get a ticket on the trail and start the court process myself. I am skeptical that this happens except in the more extreme circumstances where the person is already in hot water for a larger issue.

Going to court, a magistrate/judge is probably just going to parrot County policy and we'll have to run it up the ladder - a time consuming and potentially expensive process. I think giving a heads up to the state political structure that the County is causing "dual registration" as a need is a better start (but have to have those 6 to 10 example tickets).

I have experienced certain citations will just be "no show" in court from the ranger/officer so it gets thrown out - that way the court never calls it an invalid process and the practice can continue to make money. I tried running something up the ladder locally but "no show" and the judge dismissed it despite my objection. Haven't checked if El Dorado has the common policy if the officer is a "no show" to court they get dinged.
chasinternet is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 05:02 PM   #81 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,545
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
My Grampa used to say "the fish always rots at the head"
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars???
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 06:38 PM   #82 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member # 126704
Posts: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebe View Post
My Grampa used to say "the fish always rots at the head"
Hijack!
I couldn't resist ....
YouTube - Fish Heads - Barnes and Barnes (1979)
chasinternet is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 08:05 PM   #83 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Member # 52
Location: Janesville, CA
Posts: 7,402
I seriously am considering never visiting the Rubicon again. Way too much politcal BS for me. I already feel like an outlaw from all sides and frankly I am getting tired of it.
__________________
Rockzombie Smurf
Keith is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 08:48 PM   #84 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member # 126704
Posts: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
I seriously am considering never visiting the Rubicon again. Way too much politcal BS for me. I already feel like an outlaw from all sides and frankly I am getting tired of it.
Are you sure it isn't from hanging out in General Chit-Chat?

"The world is a vampire, sent to drain
Secret destroyers, hold you up to the flames
And what do I get for my pain?
Betrayed desires, and a piece of the game
Even though I know - I suppose Ill show
All my cool and cold-like old Job
Despite all my rage Im still just a rat in a cage" - "Bullet With Butterfly Wings" Smashing Pumpkins

You care, that is a good thing. People who care have to protect and recharge themselves - the world ain't rational - people never were.

For me, one of the ways I recharge is I go to places where people aren't. Inyo County outback works for me. Hundreds of feet below the earth in a mine works for me - turn the light off and listen to the earth moving.

At our latitude, the earth rotates ~800mph, the earth is also traveling around the Sun at ~67,000mph, and our Milky Way Galaxy is flying through space at ~600 miles per second. No wonder sometimes I get a little car sick.
chasinternet is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 08:50 PM   #85 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
300sniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Member # 26382
Location: Greenwood, Ca
Posts: 23,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
I seriously am considering never visiting the Rubicon again. Way too much politcal BS for me. I already feel like an outlaw from all sides and frankly I am getting tired of it.
that doesn't make sense to me. laws are laws no matter where you are. we got away with a lot on the trail for years with virtually no law enforcement presence. now we have to behave in a legal manner and our vehicles need to meet the vehicle code. these are not new laws, they just were never enforced out there before. there most certainly is political bs going on with the rubicon but i don't think needing to visit the trail in a legal manner has anything to do with that.

i also find it hard to believe that people that can bend tube, fabricate and weld like they do on this site can't figure out a way to mount a front license plate that will make it though the trail. in my opinion, you flat out just don't want a front license plate. that is fine. i don't want one either but i know that it is required and am willing to accept the consequences when i get called on it.
__________________
It's time to switch to whiskey, we've been drinkin' beer all night.
300sniper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 08:55 PM   #86 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Lil Uzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6359
Location: Pond
Posts: 15,260
Fawk

Thank you sniper. Way too much jaw jackin. You are legal or you are not legal. Whats the BFD ?? Where exactly is the confusion ?? No videos needed.
__________________
not surprized yer confused yer face was burried in the pillow pretty deep as gizim drunk as you were
Lil Uzi is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 08:56 PM   #87 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 993
Location: Hangtown, CA
Posts: 1,810
Mt jeep is too busy up front. Way too much going on to slip a plate in there also All I am saying is if I have to have one so does the Middle aged dude in the Corvette, and if I have to have mud flaps so does the old man in the 30's style hotrod. They came with OEM fender you know. Dont single me out cuz I like to four wheel. I could be some inner city kid scribbleing on the mirrow of a gas station restroom, but instead I am hanging out in the mtns. going one mile an hour.
__________________
USMC 0351
Rock Zombie
bagman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 09:06 PM   #88 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
300sniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Member # 26382
Location: Greenwood, Ca
Posts: 23,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagman View Post
Mt jeep is too busy up front. Way too much going on to slip a plate in there also All I am saying is if I have to have one so does the Middle aged dude in the Corvette, and if I have to have mud flaps so does the old man in the 30's style hotrod. They came with OEM fender you know. Dont single me out cuz I like to four wheel. I could be some inner city kid scribbleing on the mirrow of a gas station restroom, but instead I am hanging out in the mtns. going one mile an hour.
i'd rather worry about keeping myself legal (or not but willing to accept the consequences), not about what other's are getting away with.
__________________
It's time to switch to whiskey, we've been drinkin' beer all night.
300sniper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 10:05 PM   #89 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Scouty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Member # 681
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 735
Dual registration is plain highway robbery. My rig is street legal, but when I get to the trail there is no way I can run the mudflaps without damaging them. The intention of mudflaps is to keep debris from being thrown up and damaging someone behind me when traveling at high speeds. On the trail I rarely get over 5 miles an hour so there really is no chance for debris to fly. At what point does common sense come into play? Don't these law enforcement officers have the ability to use their discretion? I might be way off base here, but these things have never been an issue before, why now? Since the greenies approach hasn't gotten the desired traction, is the new tactic to attempt to shut down the trail, for the leo to document as many violations as possible to demonstrate the inability to properly police the trail due to limited resources?
__________________
"Anything Less is Just A Pile of Chit"

Last edited by Scouty; 08-20-2009 at 10:08 PM.
Scouty is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 10:08 PM   #90 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member # 126704
Posts: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Uzi View Post
You are legal or you are not legal. Whats the BFD ??
The BFD is when the police get involved in activities that depend on stretched or unique interpretations of law. The resulting inconsistent enforcement across jurisdictions causes a disrespect for the rule of law and it becomes gamesmanship - not law.

The idea that a street legal vehicle has a higher standard it must meet than a green sticker vehicle when it is on the Rubicon Trail is the type of stuff that continues to erode the public trust. Some people are looking for consistency and mistakenly think placing increased "authority to make decisions on the fly" into the hands of government will bring the type of consistency they are looking for.

DMV:
"Off-highway vehicles” are vehicles such as motorcycles, trail bikes, dune buggies, all-terrain vehicles, and snowmobiles that are operated exclusively off public roads and highways. A vehicle operated in this manner must be registered as an off-highway vehicle (OHV) unless it is registered for regular highway use and is not otherwise exempt from registration."

15 years ago in my work, we had to do hard work before filing litigation to prove we had a basis for our case. If we could not show the basis upon demand before the other side had to produce a single document - case over. These days I spend a lot of my time providing support for papers and expert pontification that was the basis for the litigation, however, no one checked if the allegations were true and now they have to make it true.

The laws did not change over the past 15 years about this - the people in the system were steadily caring less and it eroded to being just a game. I have voiced my opinion that the legal system needs to be held to the highest standards.

I want the rule of law - not gamesmanship rule by law.

"Where the law is subject to some other authority and has none of its own, the collapse of the state, in my view, is not far off; but if law is the master of the government and the government is its slave, then the situation is full of promise and men enjoy all the blessings that the gods shower on a state." - Plato - Laws, Book IV
chasinternet is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 10:31 PM   #91 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Lil Uzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6359
Location: Pond
Posts: 15,260
No

Your car came from the factory street legal. LEO proof. If you modify it, then you are responsible for everything you do to it. All of it. If you want to be Senor Lizard, top reptile, and belly crawl agin the rocks, be Randall Tranham, then green sticker it. It aint about right or wrong, or anything else. Totally asinine. You are legal, or you are not. What is there to screetch about. Waste of bandwidth. Stay on foot, stay at home if you can't hack it.
__________________
not surprized yer confused yer face was burried in the pillow pretty deep as gizim drunk as you were
Lil Uzi is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 10:55 PM   #92 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member # 95253
Location: Elk Grove Ca
Posts: 104
So are you saying everyone should be licensed or should everyone be green stickered to run the Rubicon, which is a county road not a trail. If you what to be judged equally everything has to be equal. That seems to be the big problem, the LEO's do not have clear guidlines to go by, because the laws are not clear.

Last edited by chevyjepp; 08-20-2009 at 10:56 PM.
chevyjepp is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2009, 11:13 PM   #93 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Member # 21815
Location: Pollock Pines, CA
Posts: 4,744
Um yeah. Lots of interesting philisophical discussion here. I'd rather pay the $25 a year (that goes into the OHV trust fund for distribution in the form of grants back to OHV areas, for instance the Rubicon) and go wheeling.

Sniper and Bagman have the right attitude...use the info here to figure out how to wheeling without being hassled, or accept that you will be and be Zen with that. Either way I'd rather wheel than be angry about the $25 or the profiling.

Enough pontification.
__________________
WWDD?

N6YBH
-

Thanks to
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
for sponsoring the 2017 Cantina For The Con!

"If you need a tool and don't buy it, you will ultimately find that you have paid for it but don't have it". -Henry Ford
resqme is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2009, 12:06 AM   #94 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member # 126704
Posts: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Uzi View Post
You are legal, or you are not.
And who says what legal is? The business end of an uzi? (Edit: I've said all I'm going to say on this subject - see my previous post)

Observer: You're a wicked man.
Number 6: Wicked?
Observer: You have no values.
Number 6: Different values!
Observer: You won't be helped.
Number 6: Destroyed!
Observer: You want to spoil things.
Number 6: I won't be a goldfish in a bowl!

Chairman: “We deplore your spirit of disharmony.”
No.6: “That's a common complaint around here, isn't it?”
- Patrick McGoohan - "The Prisoner" - "A Change of Mind" (1967)

Last edited by chasinternet; 08-21-2009 at 12:38 AM.
chasinternet is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2009, 06:21 AM   #95 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Lil Uzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6359
Location: Pond
Posts: 15,260
Who says

The Vehicle code.
__________________
not surprized yer confused yer face was burried in the pillow pretty deep as gizim drunk as you were
Lil Uzi is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2009, 09:10 AM   #96 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Member # 18320
Location: Lake County
Posts: 1,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by R290 View Post
Whats CS? my brain inserted BS lol
Chicken Sh!t. This whole no cussing thing in the Rubicon forum gets in the way.

I do not know of a case where EDSO gave a C.S. ticket (for the offenses discussed) - only USFS leo. From my experience the interpretation of the law by EDSO follows common sense- vehicles off highway are off highway vehicles. It does not sit well with me that different agencies have different interpretations of the law.

I do not agree that vehicle code is black and white on this issue. For the past few decades vehicles "off highway" were treated as such. Only in recent years has the interpretation changed (by one agency). On the trail you see many violations that would be ticketed on the road: No mirrors (tucked away to avoid damage), windshield down without wearing proper eye protection, mudflaps, towing a vehicle with a 10' strap, etc.

It is my humble opinion that if you get a ticket that you feel is unjust it is your right (and civic duty) to take the matter to court. Without taking these matters to court we are left with the interpretation of the law by officers on the trail - and the slow erosion of our rights and freedoms.
elarsen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2009, 09:12 AM   #97 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Member # 52
Location: Janesville, CA
Posts: 7,402
Charles and Scouty sum it up for me. I have a street registered vehicle, and it's legal. I get zero hassle from local LE. Why would I want to spend the money on a dual reg, when I have to abide by the laws of my license plate? And who on this BB can assure me the money spent on the dual reg will actually go to the OHV community. Seems to be a struggle with that for sure.
I will not enjoy myself on the trail if I continually are looking over my shoulder for the exact time the microscope will enter my $#@.

Sniper and Uzi, I don't have a problem with maintaining a legal vehicle, but I do have a problem with being babysitted, and opening myself up to inspections by LE, cuz they think they have a mission from GOD!

I did not have my flaps on one day(oops, test drive after mods and I forgot) and was stopped by CHP. Nice fellow. Put the flaps on and on my way. He didn't start looking through my rig, looking for weapons measuring my rig, or anything else.

There are other places to enjoy with the scrutiny
__________________
Rockzombie Smurf
Keith is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2009, 09:18 AM   #98 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Member # 52
Location: Janesville, CA
Posts: 7,402
Just reminds me of Ken Marcus writing my friends daughter a ticket on the way to the con on Ice House. She crossed the line in a curve so he stopped her. Perfectly fine S-10 Blazer. Modified for the trail and also a legal street vehicle. He wrote her a ticket for crossing the solid line, and then proceeded to also write her for an unsafe vehicle. THIS IS A BLAZER SHE DRIVES TO WORK EVERYDAY. Never been stopped by local LE in the Sacramento area. She went to court, and lost the contest. WTF? How is it possible for Officer Ken to determine what is and what is not safe. More judgemental BS IMHO. He has no desire to return.
__________________
Rockzombie Smurf
Keith is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2009, 09:33 AM   #99 (permalink)
Registered User
 
R290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Member # 46467
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 4,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
Edit... And who on this BB can assure me the money spent on the dual reg will actually go to the OHV community.
http://4wheeldrive.about.com/b/2009/...id-ohv-use.htm

chasinternet sum this thread up for me.

"The resulting inconsistent enforcement across jurisdictions causes a disrespect for the rule of law and it becomes gamesmanship - not law. "

Now if your really bored.
YouTube - Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1 (part 1)
YouTube - Don't Talk to Cops, Part 2 (part 2)
__________________
73 IH Scout
R290 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2009, 09:33 AM   #100 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Member # 65987
Location: Rock Zombies 4x4 Club Nor-Cal
Posts: 550
I have to play devils advocate here. As to these issues that have been ongoing for a year or two now. It is BS for sure when some "johnny come lately, mission from god LEO" writes up everyone for everything, however, this continual harrassment sucks, but it will get rid of the A holes and idiots up there causing the issues. I do not agree with the dual reg thing it is total BS!! Keep it legal, either greed stickered or normal reg/lic, etc.. if you get a ticket, keep your mouth shut, and fight it in court... yes it sucks, and it is never going to be the way it was. It may quiet down a bit up there, but it will never be like it was where anything goes. I too don't enjoy the rubicon as much as I used to. I have only been once per year the last 3 years. The crappy part..? I felt like I was under a microscope and looking over my shoulder the entire time and I could not shake that feeling....
I can tell you in the coming years, when I get another street legal rig, it will follow the rules of the law as far a plates and current reg etc. However, no mudflaps when on the trail???? ... I'll be seeing that officer in court.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Rock Zombie; 08-21-2009 at 09:35 AM.
Rock Zombie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.