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Old 06-26-2010, 02:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation Use of Rubicon Repeater: IMPORTANT

Hi everyone, I would like you all to please read this:

Many folks taking part on the June 26th work weekend were operating on the 146.805 linked repeater (RUBI +). In other words, while in the Rubicon, your traffic was heard all through El Dorado County. I tried to help by getting on the 146.805 to let you know that you should be operating on the Rubicon repeater (RUBI), while in the Rubicon, UNLESS you need to get out of the Rubicon with your traffic.

In your radios you have five alphanumeric tagged frequencies.

1) "805ELD" (or KA6GWY, aka "the 805") which is to be used if you are in the county but outside of the Rubicon. This can get your transmission into the Rubicon.

2) "RUBI +" which is a repeater at Spider that will link your traffic to the outside 805 (KA6GWY) repeater. This should be used if you are IN the Rubicon and need to be heard elsewhere in the county.

3) "RUBI" which is the Rubicon repeater at Spider that is to be used for Rubicon to Rubicon traffic. This repeater will keep your transmissions (traffic) inside the Rubicon so no one in the rest of the county can hear you. When doing work projects, THIS is the repeater you should use, NOT the 805 linked (RUBI +).

4) "RUBSIM" or "RUBDIR" which is a simplex frequency that can be heard if you are within line of sight. This is a great frequency to be used for such areas in the Rubicon where people are relatively close by you. It doesn't involve the RUBI repeater, though it is the same frequency.

5) "805TAH" which is the KA6GWY repeater that should be used if you are in Tahoe and want your transmission heard in El Dorado County.

Frank is quite pleased to have us use his repeater BUT there is no need to be linked to the 805 while transmitting from the Rubicon to the Rubicon. Please keep in mind that this is a EDCo SAR repeater and should be kept open if possible.

If you have questions, email me or John, or give us a call.

Thanks!
Barb, N6BOA
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Old 06-26-2010, 05:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Not everyone will have "Tagged alphaneumeric frequencies"
Please post details of CTCSS freqs. so people who do not
have your pre-programmed stuff can also adhere to this standard.
J.B.
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Old 06-26-2010, 07:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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805ELD - (KA6GWY in Pollock Pines) 146.805, PL of 123, - offset
805TAH - (KA6GWY in Tahoe Basin) 145.605, PL of 123, + offset
RUBI - (Coverage wthin trail only) 444.9875, PL 156.7, + offset
RUBI+ - (Linked to 805's) 444.9875, PL 107.2, + offset
RUBISIM - (Simplex) 444.9875, No pl, No offset

-Phill
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edit: 156.7 for Rubicon only, and 107.2 to link to 805 I changed the above table. That was the mistake that John had in his program. Hate to see bad info propagate

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Old 06-27-2010, 09:47 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for paying attention to this, folks. Frank (and MANY others) has/have gone to a lot of trouble to put together a system that we can all use and enjoy.

We need to be respectful and keep our "Rubicon only" traffic inside the Rubicon, and only use the linked version of the Spider/Rubicon repeater when we specifically intend to talk to someone outside the Rubicon.

If anyone has trouble understanding how this works or is still confused about what frequwncy to use and when, feel free to PM me and I will help coach you through it.

John Arenz
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:39 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbxx View Post
Not everyone will have "Tagged alphaneumeric frequencies"
Please post details of CTCSS freqs. so people who do not
have your pre-programmed stuff can also adhere to this standard.
J.B.
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Yes, this is true. I chose not to post the freqs unless asked. But they have been posted now.
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Old 06-27-2010, 08:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Good info Barb!!

What I do is monitor the Rubi frequency on simplex. that way if I accidentally transmit, you know the sitting on the mic thing, it does not go out too far.

By doing this I can hear:
all 805 repeater traffic
all Rubicon repeater traffic
simplex of course
and any 805 simplex traffic is also retransmitted if the repeater can hear it!

We have many new Hams out there and I know it takes a little while to figure out all the buttons and stuff. I carry the book for just that reason. I still need to refer to it once in a while.

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Old 06-27-2010, 08:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks for the Info Barb and John but just a thought....not everyone has a dual band radio and while on the work party there was a need to communicate with them. We did use simplex 146.520 for a time and tried to keep things to a minimum. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks again for all the information.
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Old 06-27-2010, 09:12 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks for the Info Barb and John but just a thought....not everyone has a dual band radio and while on the work party there was a need to communicate with them. We did use simplex 146.520 for a time and tried to keep things to a minimum. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks again for all the information.
Hadn't thought of that, Tim. I'll have to think some more about it and come up with a solution. If it happens from time to time, using the VHF side isn't too big a deal, but if it happens all day (like onthe work party), we're causing a big disruption down the hill.

I'll give it some thought...

edit: Maybe we could use the commercial VHF repeater (Jamboree) for ops and only switch to the 805/RUBI system for talking down the hill. Maybe a written comm plan in the IAP would help? Google ICS 205 for a look at one if you're interested.
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:01 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Additionally

Folks, I heard folks walking around their camp talking to each other in camp using weak hand helds on the 805 repeater. This drives users nuts. Please usee Simplex or "Talk Around" I am sure John has it programmed in your radios.

Try and pay attention to what tone you are using on the UHF side? I regularly hear people talking car to car using UHF and bringing up the entire 605, 805 system.

805 is hard to hit with a hand held and a weak battery from many areas in and around Loon. Pay attention to your batteries state of charge.

Try and use Simplex whenever you can. A hand held should easily be able to talk from the chalet to the Kiosk.

73,
TM
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:47 AM   #10 (permalink)
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For what it is worth, I have received suggestions from several longtime 805 repeater users on the problems we had last weekend. I don't want to soft peddle this. This is a problem!!!

I have emphasized this in classes and did so again in the comm briefing at Loon Lake on Saturday morning: We need to stay off the 805 when we are in the Rubicon UNLESS we are specifically trying to talk to someone outside the Rubicon, period. This applies during day to day use, but especially during FOTR work days when the air is crowded.

A cheat sheet has been given to all who take the class. I can send anyone another copy if you give me your email. Please review it and get help implementing it if you need to.

Steps I will be attempting to implement for future work days:

1. Exercise better radio discipline during work days

2. Place a full time Comms person on the RICS and have that person's job be to listen, and track down and correct radio discipline problems.

3. Seek other solutions, such as using the JJUSA Commercial repeater for tacitical comms during work parties.

The repeater owner didn't prompt this, but I could VERY DEFINITELY sense the frustration of the longtime users and have since gotten constructive input from several of them. We're working on it and will do a better job next work day.

Your continued input and input from non-Rubicon users is valuable, and I appreciate it. I also appreciate the "over the air" restraint shown by all users, in or out fo the Rubicon.
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I tried using the RUBI repeater and not RUBI +. John checked my radio when I saw him and the RUBI and RUBI + were switched in my radio. He said that happened for the class I was in so anyone else that took the fall 2008 class and test might wanna check their radio to make sure it is programmed correct.
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The RICS for the Workday showed "Simplex Rubi +". I know I used the Rubi + when I was trying to reach Glenn in Wentworth Springs - I could hear him but he couldn't hear me. I switched over to Rubi + and he could hear me. I was originally on "RubiSIM".

I am still really confused, I wonder if my radio has a switched frequency also?
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by resqme View Post
For what it is worth, I have received suggestions from several longtime 805 repeater users on the problems we had last weekend. I don't want to soft peddle this. This is a problem!!!


Steps I will be attempting to implement for future work days:

1. Exercise better radio discipline during work days

2. Place a full time Comms person on the RICS and have that person's job be to listen, and track down and correct radio discipline problems.

3. Seek other solutions, such as using the JJUSA Commercial repeater for tacitical comms during work parties.
John/Bebe,

I have a stout 70cm and 2m antennae I can rig up on the trailer light masts that may be able to hit Rubi, and I'm sure 805.

Shouldn't be a problem mentoring folks while doing food prep. If I can help moderate traffic during work weekends, just let me know.

Dale
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:40 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The RICS for the Workday showed "Simplex Rubi +".
That may be part of the problem... the way most radios i have seen are alpha-tagged, they have RUBISIM or RUBI+ but no "Simplex Rubi +"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebe View Post
I am still really confused, I wonder if my radio has a switched frequency also?
Simple enough to check... turn it on and reference the frequencies and codes Phil provided above. Use the V/M key to toggle between VFO and memory modes (VFO shows digits, and memory shows alphanumeric tags). Depending on where you are and how you have your unit programmed, you may also need to hit the BAND key
* function 4 shows whether the repeater offset is positive, negative, or disabled (hitting the function key again clears the display)
* function 2 shows the code (hitting the function key again clears the display)
You might also want to check your power level... I've been able to talk simplex between the first bridge past Airport Flat on the old rubicon Trail and friends working on the RTF kiosk at Wentworth Springs campground.

Do your best, folks, and listen to the good folks on the air who are trying to help... and be willing to ask here or in-person on the trail for more info. the 805 is a fabulous resource, and it is well-worth the thinking required to use it well... that's what Dennis would do.

Randii

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Old 06-29-2010, 12:27 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The RICS for the Workday showed "Simplex Rubi +".?
This is probably part of the problem...if you are on simplex, you aren't on "Rubi+", as they're mutually exclusive. As indicated, next work party I'm hoping we can put someone in charge of Comms, have them write the Comm plan, and have them help us with radio discipline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebe View Post
I know I used the Rubi + when I was trying to reach Glenn in Wentworth Springs - I could hear him but he couldn't hear me. I switched over to Rubi + and he could hear me. I was originally on "RubiSIM".
If you are on Rubi +, you are keying every repeater in the system. If you could hear him, but he couldn't hear you, he was getting into the repeater, but not hearing it back. On his end, he needs to listen and find a place he can hear it.

Quote:
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I am still really confused, I wonder if my radio has a switched frequency also?
That's possible, and if so, my bad. I put out a batch with reversed PL tones. Thought I had gotten back to all of them and fixed them.

Either way, you can listen to the radio after you key up...on simplex you'll hear nothing back, on the Rubicon repeater only, you'll hear a relatively short kerchunk with no tone, and on Rubicon + the link, you'll hear the courtesy tone of the 805.

I've had a couple of PM's about "radio discipline". Let me clarify. I don't mean we're all going to be in big trouble and be punished...I mean we need to understand the comm plan and have the personal discipline to stick to it.

Radio Discipline is understanding the radio system and communication plan and staying within that plan in order to communicate effectively without interrupting the communication of others. A common term in my business that I shouldn't have assumed everyone else would understand. Hope that helps.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I tried using the RUBI repeater and not RUBI +. John checked my radio when I saw him and the RUBI and RUBI + were switched in my radio. He said that happened for the class I was in so anyone else that took the fall 2008 class and test might wanna check their radio to make sure it is programmed correct.
That explains the problem I had this weekend. Mine are switched too. Thanks Tim
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:43 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by resqme View Post
For what it is worth, I have received suggestions from several longtime 805 repeater users on the problems we had last weekend. I don't want to soft peddle this. This is a problem!!!

I have emphasized this in classes and did so again in the comm briefing at Loon Lake on Saturday morning: We need to stay off the 805 when we are in the Rubicon UNLESS we are specifically trying to talk to someone outside the Rubicon, period. This applies during day to day use, but especially during FOTR work days when the air is crowded.

A cheat sheet has been given to all who take the class. I can send anyone another copy if you give me your email. Please review it and get help implementing it if you need to.

Steps I will be attempting to implement for future work days:

1. Exercise better radio discipline during work days

2. Place a full time Comms person on the RICS and have that person's job be to listen, and track down and correct radio discipline problems.

3. Seek other solutions, such as using the JJUSA Commercial repeater for tacitical comms during work parties.

The repeater owner didn't prompt this, but I could VERY DEFINITELY sense the frustration of the longtime users and have since gotten constructive input from several of them. We're working on it and will do a better job next work day.

Your continued input and input from non-Rubicon users is valuable, and I appreciate it. I also appreciate the "over the air" restraint shown by all users, in or out fo the Rubicon.
I have yet to even transmit a single message on my radio for fear of what I may be doing wrong.

There was an immense amount of effort and time put into getting as many peeps certified as possible over the past few years. That is great!

With that said and with all do respect, I do not think the same amount of effort has been put into training us the newbs about proper use and etiquette. You don't get 30-60 minutes of training and then suddenly turn into Super Ham when you are able to utilize that training 6 months to a year later.

Is there any literature we can get or possibly workshops that we could attend? Is there a way to practice without pissing off the veterans? I am pretty sure the majority of the folks committing the infractions are unaware like myself.
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I have yet to even transmit a single message on my radio for fear of what I may be doing wrong.
PJ- don't let that stop you from using your radio. I'm still learning how to use mine and make PLENTY of mistakes. In my experience, the experts out there have been very quick to help out a newbie.
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:11 PM   #19 (permalink)
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805ELD - (KA6GWY in Pollock Pines) 146.805, PL of 123, - offset
805TAH - (KA6GWY in Tahoe Basin) 145.605, PL of 123, + offset
RUBI - (Coverage wthin trail only) 444.9875, PL 156.7, + offset
RUBI+ - (Linked to 805's) 444.9875, PL 107.2, + offset
RUBISIM - (Simplex) 444.9875, No pl, No offset

-Phill
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edit: 156.7 for Rubicon only, and 107.2 to link to 805 I changed the above table. That was the mistake that John had in his program. Hate to see bad info propagate

Scott


OK, now we're talking! (pun +) I have not invested a lot of time to program my HT or the in-rig radios-- i can whip around VFO style and do PL on the fly. So the actual freqs is a great help-- AN memory is only helpful if one knows the hidden freqs and need to fwd that info to others. Thanks!

The other posts are helpful for the newer operators and what my elmers keeps insisting to all: rx more than you tx. Use simplex when ever possible and we're suposed to use the lowest power necessary to complete the QSO. That means what ever it takes but not always on full smash. When our local group does nevada runs, we drop to VHF simplex (not 520 to keep that open) and run at 5 watts low power setting.

Tnx to John, BOA and all the rest. Traversing the trail with reliable comm is such a great sense of comfort and fun.

Here in Reno a local club offers a 'new hams forum' to acquaint new licensees with the nuts and bolts of good operation skills. Maybe copy that down in ur area?


Found this:
The Radio Amateur is

CONSIDERATE...never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.

LOYAL...offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local clubs, and the American Radio Relay League, through which Amateur Radio in the United States is represented nationally and internationally.

PROGRESSIVE...with knowledge abreast of science, a well-built and efficient station and operation above reproach.

FRIENDLY...slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice and counsel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur spirit.

BALANCED...radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to family, job, school or community.

PATRIOTIC...station and skill always ready for service to country and community.

--The original Amateur's Code was written by Paul M. Segal, W9EEA, in 1928

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Old 06-29-2010, 10:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Sorry for posting the mis-info. At least we were able to find the cause of this!

Mark, I agree with you in Rx more than Tx. I had the priveledge to install my radio and listen before taking the class. It made transmitting when I got my lisence a whole lot easier.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:09 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Found this:
The Radio Amateur is

CONSIDERATE...never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.

LOYAL...offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local clubs, and the American Radio Relay League, through which Amateur Radio in the United States is represented nationally and internationally.

PROGRESSIVE...with knowledge abreast of science, a well-built and efficient station and operation above reproach.

FRIENDLY...slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice and counsel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur spirit.

BALANCED...radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to family, job, school or community.

PATRIOTIC...station and skill always ready for service to country and community.

--The original Amateur's Code was written by Paul M. Segal, W9EEA, in 1928

mb
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I like this!!
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:10 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Wink Rubisim pl

"RUBISIM - (Simplex) 444.9875, No pl, No offset"


I noticed that there is no PL on this while this is usual for simplex however my
notes show that a PL of 107.2 is recommended as some users decode PL on their handhelds.

Hope this helps and yes my PL's where crossed on the RUBI+ and RUBI freq's.
The RTF web site shows the wrong PL's for RUBI and RUBI+. I will let John Arenz N6YBH now of this.

73

Pat McCuiston
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:20 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Talking Rubisim

The RTF web site shows the wrong PL's for RUBI and RUBI+.

I must correct this. It was the literature I recieved from the Ocotber Ham class where the PL's were crossed on the RUBI and RUBI+ hopefully the handouts have been corrected.. The RTF web site does CORRECTLY advertise the PL's and Freq's.

73 for now.


I am going to bed. to late to think about this.
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:59 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by patjeepyj View Post
The RTF web site shows the wrong PL's for RUBI and RUBI+.

I must correct this. It was the literature I recieved from the Ocotber Ham class where the PL's were crossed on the RUBI and RUBI+ hopefully the handouts have been corrected.. The RTF web site does CORRECTLY advertise the PL's and Freq's.

73 for now.


I am going to bed. to late to think about this.
Thanks for keeping me honest, Pat

Yup, the literature AND the programming from that Ham Class were incorrect. I've tried to correct it whenever I run across folks that have them reversed. Another 5 or 10 years and I'll reel it back in!

As you noted, the info on the RTF website and on this post, is correct.
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Old 09-09-2010, 08:36 AM   #25 (permalink)
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HAM FREQ's

Thanks again for your help John,, not trying to pin you to a wall just confirming that what I think to be correct is correct..

Have a great weekend !!!
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