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Old 06-18-2018, 03:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Critique my Skid Steer Crane plan (and recommend material size)

I'll be in need of a skid steer crane attachment pretty soon.

Immediately I'll need it to set trusses on top of a 16 foot high flat roof. It'll also be used to lift up bundles of shingles, plywood, etc.

I've got a couple sets of forks and it seems easiest/fastest to make the boom attach on the forks. I do realize this will limit how close I can get to something with the boom straight up and down (forks may be in the way).

I don't have a local place that I can just buy a blank quickattach plate, but I'm sure I can build my own if need be, or maybe ship one in.

My machine goes 11 feet high to the fork heels when fully raised. I was thinking a 15 foot long stick would be a handy length giving me a max lift height of 25 feet. This will likely be a two piece boom so I can use it shorter when appropriate.

Obviously I want the lightest possible tubing that won't fold up when I don't want it to. I'm also considering a truss type structure for the first half of the boom (thinking a three tube arrangement like an antenna tower).

4x4x3/16?
6x6x1/8?


Suggestions?
My machine has about a 2500 lbs load rating and about a 5000 lbs tip over rating (back wheels come off the ground when 5000 lbs is on the forks at a 24 inch distance from fork heels I think).



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Old 06-18-2018, 05:44 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The ones I've seen for sale are called jib booms and are made with tube like a radio antenna tower.

Like this https://www.skidsteersolutions.com/s...CABEgJBWvD_BwE

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Old 06-18-2018, 08:14 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I'd think you would want at least 1/4" material, and more supports going from the fork tubes farther up on the beam. That's a hell of a long lever.
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
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16' on a skid steer, your load limit will be so low it won't be worth it. You will likely flip the skid steer forward or if you swing side to side because of wind you will likely go over sideways. Rent a high lift fork lift and be safe.
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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As you push the weight away from the base your ability to lift is cut in half each time the distance doubles. So Based on your 2500lbs @2', 8' way from the base you can lift 625lbs excluding the weight of the rig itself. At the height you are trying to reach it will be very unstable, especially when you calculate what happens when you are in reverse and go to travel in that direction with weight on. I would recommend at least trying to keep the elevating arm as straight up as possible. I don't think the machine you have is going to work well for the job you are trying to do with it. Good luck, Do some tests with weight on when nobody is near so you get a bit of a feel for it . Generally when you get trusses here where I live, they send a picker truck to deliver them to the top of the walls.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:13 AM   #7 (permalink)
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You are going to die. Ever hear of stability triangle.
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
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https://skidpro.com/skid-steer-attac...lescopic-boom/

Look into a truss jib for a skidsteer
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Old 06-18-2018, 03:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Looks great to me. Id make the green piece a few feet longer. Post video.
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Old 06-18-2018, 03:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate379 View Post
The ones I've seen for sale are called jib booms and are made with tube like a radio antenna tower.

Like this https://www.skidsteersolutions.com/s...CABEgJBWvD_BwE
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironmangq View Post
https://skidpro.com/skid-steer-attac...lescopic-boom/

Look into a truss jib for a skidsteer
notice the load rating go way down for fully extended!
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Old 06-18-2018, 04:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
16' on a skid steer, your load limit will be so low it won't be worth it. You will likely flip the skid steer forward or if you swing side to side because of wind you will likely go over sideways. Rent a high lift fork lift and be safe.
....and here we go.

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Originally Posted by too tall View Post
As you push the weight away from the base your ability to lift is cut in half each time the distance doubles. So Based on your 2500lbs @2', 8' way from the base you can lift 625lbs excluding the weight of the rig itself. At the height you are trying to reach it will be very unstable, especially when you calculate what happens when you are in reverse and go to travel in that direction with weight on. I would recommend at least trying to keep the elevating arm as straight up as possible. I don't think the machine you have is going to work well for the job you are trying to do with it. Good luck, Do some tests with weight on when nobody is near so you get a bit of a feel for it . Generally when you get trusses here where I live, they send a picker truck to deliver them to the top of the walls.
Sounds reasonable to me.

So, the pivot point of a skid steer is not the heel of the forks, it's the center of the front wheels. As I add weight to the machine and it starts to tip forward, it's pivoting at the front wheels. I measured and I'm right at 36 inches from the center of the front wheel (hub) to the fork heels.

So....2500 lbs at 5 feet from the axle
= 1250 at 10 feet from the axle
= 625 at 20 feet from the axle.

Right?

Also, keep in mind that these numbers are all within the rated load capacity of my machine (which is half of the tip over rating).

I also do realize of course that that number is pretending whatever is hanging off the quick attach weighs nothing, however, the center of gravity of whatever I build will not be at the middle of the boom span, now will it be at the tip, the great majority of the weight will be within 3 feet of the quick attach plate.

The trusses I'll be lifting weigh 150 lbs.

I am not building this rig for one time use, and I don't intend it to be 15 feet long all the time. Also, I won't be doing any fancy driving or any type of grade when I'll be using this. Also, when lifting, the first thing to go up would be the boom, until it's as vertical as possible, then the machine's boom would raise, keeping the load as close to the machine as possible.

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Looks great to me. Id make the green piece a few feet longer. Post video.
Fuck yeah!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weasel View Post
notice the load rating go way down for fully extended!
A quick glance at the specs for the boom linked above:

weight of boom 420 lbs
length fully extended 22 feet
Load rating fully extended 298 lbs
Recommended minimum skid steer rating 1850 lbs.
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Old 06-18-2018, 05:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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This lift was a hot tub that specs say weighs about 1000 lbs, and still had about 8 inches of water in it (which I'm pretty sure added 200 lbs).

The center of the tub was 10 1/2 feet from the middle of the front axle, and I was pointed downhill, which wasn't helping things.

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Old 06-20-2018, 06:43 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The best bang for your buck in terms of weight is going to be an A-frame held up by cable (or chain, or a ratchet strap, or whatever the fuck else you want as long as it's strong enough to handle the pulling force). There's a whole thread on them including several pics of exactly what not to do.

If designed so that whatever solid material you use is only in compression (and I mean "only", not attaching the cables a few feet from the end where the load is and calling it good enough) then 2.5x3/16 square tube should be plenty. The angle of the A-frame relative to the load (i.e. vertical, because gravity) and the angle of the A-frame relative to the cable will have a large effect on the compression forces on the A-frame.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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way I've seen it done, piece of 2" sch 40 bolted in to the bucket, flat on the inside of the bottom
good enough for setting up trusses, would probably balk at pallets of shingles though lol
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I'd think you would want at least 1/4" material, and more supports going from the fork tubes farther up on the beam. That's a hell of a long lever.
1/4" what? Thicker doesn't always mean it's stronger. Strength comes in shapes not thickness.

6x6x1/8 would be very hard to bend, probably way overkill

3x3x3/16 would probably be more than enough.
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:12 PM   #16 (permalink)
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What ever you do, go pro it! It will be internet famous.

Once you get that thing moving and bucking (as skid steer do), momentum, wieght transfer, and length can and will very quickly exceed those ratings.
https://youtu.be/oXnkXaRnNrI


Have fun, be safe, film it.
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Old 06-22-2018, 05:38 AM   #17 (permalink)
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way I've seen it done, piece of 2" sch 40 bolted in to the bucket, flat on the inside of the bottom
good enough for setting up trusses, would probably balk at pallets of shingles though lol
For lifting shingles, with a boom 15-20 feet long I would probably go with three bundles at a time, probably in a "hanging basket" kind of thing that would be easy to load/unload. Pallet of any amount of shingles would be silly.
OSB would be two or three sheets at a time. All on level ground with no sidewards movement at all.

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What ever you do, go pro it! It will be internet famous.

Once you get that thing moving and bucking (as skid steer do), momentum, wieght transfer, and length can and will very quickly exceed those ratings.
https://youtu.be/oXnkXaRnNrI


Have fun, be safe, film it.
My dad found a go pro clone in a rental car and gave it to me. I'm computer dumb, but I can probably find someone to show me how it works. and tape it to the tip of the boom looking back at the machine. I've never dickered around with video before, but maybe I'll try.

Anywho, since I don't want this thread moved to shit shat or newbie, here's where I'm at with materials.

I priced out a stick of 6x6x1/4 just to see if trump fawkered our steel prices, and apparently he has. Prices are up around 50% since the last time I ordered. I've got a couple suppliers in Quebec that sell to the mine I work for and I think I can have a better price.

Better to build out of stuff I already have though.

I've got a full stick of 6x2x1/8 or 3/16 tubing. I could use it like in the potato-cad drawing (it'd be the doubled up part near the big square (skid steer quick attach). After that I've got a chunk of 3x3x3/16 left over from the porcelain table I built, then after that it would be 2x2x1/4 for the tip.

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I've got a piece of scrap steel from a local mine. It's 3/16 plate reinforced all around with 2x2x1/4 angle (and a few crossers). I think I'll use that and make a dedicated quick attach plate.


Now, I've searched youtube and haven't found a single skid-steer crane fuckup. Haven't found one on the internet either. If these things were that haywire, then there'd be proof on the net.

I did find this contraption though. This guy made a 20 foot boom from a piece of 6x6x1/4 and successfully used it to set trusses way bigger than what I'm talking about, apparently with his father at the controls with three hours experience running a skid steer.

For the record I think this is an example of a ridiculous set up, poor boom design (big and very heavy right to the tip) and quite large trusses, and it still made for a boring video.


https://youtu.be/zX3-GX5HlYc?t=537
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:39 AM   #18 (permalink)
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So, back from the shop with some measurements of what I've got.

22 foot stick of 6x2x1/4
8 feet of 3x3x3/16
7 feet of "receiver stock" 2.5x2.5x1/4 approx.

The receiver stock fits in the 3x3 nicely. Plan right now is to do the double 6x2 tubing out to 10 or 11 feet, spaced nicely to have a socket in the middle to accept the 3x3 (might do multiple sockets on 2 or more angles.

That'll get me out to about 18 feet, which is more than plenty. I can use the receiver stock to make a socket in the end of the 3x3 to accept different end attachments, including a long stick of 2x2 tubing if more length is needed.
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Old 06-22-2018, 08:49 AM   #19 (permalink)
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What ever you do, go pro it! It will be internet famous.

Once you get that thing moving and bucking (as skid steer do), momentum, wieght transfer, and length can and will very quickly exceed those ratings.
https://youtu.be/oXnkXaRnNrI


Have fun, be safe, film it.



I'd seriously be looking at making a gin pole for my truck before attempting to make a long ass boom for a skid steer. An 8' boom maybe but 16' seems to be just asking for a tip over.
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Old 06-22-2018, 09:02 AM   #20 (permalink)
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That youtube video makes it seem like this will be OK, but that looks like a large machine.
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Old 06-22-2018, 10:21 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I have seen and used setups similar to what you are thinking (made out of lighter material even), they work well as long as you are smart. Use bucket tilt first to raise the load and get the boom as close to vertical as possible before raising arms, travel as little as possible and be very gentle with controls reversing in particular
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Old 06-22-2018, 11:21 AM   #22 (permalink)
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That youtube video makes it seem like this will be OK, but that looks like a large machine.
Not sure on the size, that one's a John Deere 3190. I couldn't find any specs.

Mine is a wheeled New Holland LS185B, which is a large machine I think. The bobcat T870 is fucking huge, rated at twice what my machine is rated at.

Also, tracked one's have load ratings since the tracks fron idler wheel is much closer to the boom than a tired machine.
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Old 06-22-2018, 11:58 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Old 06-22-2018, 08:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'd seriously be looking at making a gin pole for my truck before attempting to make a long ass boom for a skid steer. An 8' boom maybe but 16' seems to be just asking for a tip over.
with the boom, you keep it mostly vertical, obviously it'll tip if you try and extend it out flat, but we're not talking retard $15/hr operators here, he owns the skid steer
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Old 06-24-2018, 11:02 AM   #25 (permalink)
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1) I'd add a line from the tip of the boom or at least middle to the top of the bucket frame. This will help significantly reduce load on the forks/beam and give you more stability. Could be chain, strong strap, etc.

2) Stability is your biggest concern, especially going up that high. You have a very narrow and short wheelbase in comparison with the load and height. With that much difference, it will take very little to get it started going over, and as soon as you get slightly off level, it will keep going over. Could be something as minor as running over a small rock, soft patch of dirt on one side, gust of wind, etc etc.... Hard to predict exactly how bad it will be, but at the very least make darn sure you have a good seatbelt, ROPS and there's no one anywhere near the landing area. Remember that if it flops that boom is going straight sideways plus the size of the truss, so you need a good 30+ ft clear all the way around you.

Dangerous thing with the hanging load is that any movement from vertical causes the load to swing which give you more overturning moment and it quickly snowballs. Using as short of a cable as possible will help this however you're still going to have some.

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