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Old 06-30-2018, 05:43 PM   #176 (permalink)
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Are you using the suspension software from Performance Trends? This is called Suspension Analyzer. I found "Suspension Analysis" to be a general search string that did not identify a specific product or brand.

You are planning to invert the 8.8 IRS right? My question concerns the clearance requirement for the pinion angle when it the IRS housing is oriented in a manner resulting in the pinion being up. Once I found some images of the IRS I knew why you decided to go this direction. I doubt many other options exist except possibly the smaller of the two Toyota IFS systems. I have not crawled under my Gen2 Tracker enough to know. Do you know the width of the IRS center section? I have searched for this yet, have been unable to locate a measurement.

Grand Vitara has a 3-link rear system? My 2000 Tracker has 4-link. Did you convert yours to the 3-link with pan hard? Sorry, I have not seen a Grand Vitara yet.

Your work is fantastic. Keep it up and keep us informed.

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Old 07-01-2018, 10:48 AM   #177 (permalink)
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Diff won’t be inverted, it will lay flat like stock to keep pinion angle correct. Also won’t be flipped as it will then run backwards of the direction I need. Toyota ifs will not work due to lack of 5.13 gears.

Factory is a sort of parallel 4 link setup with panhard. I went to a 3 link as the stock 4 link binds as it articulates. Not an issue with stock bushings since they give so much but will tear things up in a hurry with heims. Also keeps “rear steer” very minimal and I had plenty of room to keep the Pan hard vs trying to add a triangulated 4 link.

After 170 miles of running dirt roads hard yesterday, it’s extremely stable and work very well at speed. Just need to play with valving more as it’s too soft and has minimal control over acceleration bumps
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Old 08-17-2018, 10:12 AM   #178 (permalink)
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Some more updates

Pulled her into the garage for some maintenance. LF strut had been leaking for a bit and the last desert trip killed it. Put another cheapy one on after hacking the old tabs off the old strut and using those as templates on where to open up the strut mount holes. Put some washers on the bottom hole and welded them half way round. didnt want to put too much heat into the body and they worked just fine this way on the last strut. no washers on the top holes so i can still adjust camber and cant say ive ever had them move as is. no more bouncy bouncy




Also, the exhaust has been driving me nuts. i guess im getting old or its just cause its a V6 and i had the noise they make till the upper rpm range (i love driving the sand car but it has more of that porche note and it rarely sees below 4k rpm). had a resonater added and a decent sized chambered muffler (no packing so it stays quiet) was put on as well as a new y-pipe built and ran out to the back end of the rig. it was dumped straight down by the gas tank and was decent (better than how it was dumped under the cab with one muffler) but still had some drone. So i tried running the exhaust the rest of the way out the back and pointed it towards the back. muuuuuuch better, think im finally satisfied with the exhaust. its only tacked in though as i ran out of gas. get some pics when i weld it up.

this heat sucks but i wanted a break from either just sitting around or working on remodeling our bathroom.

picked up more welding gas and finished the exhaust finally.



then tried messing with pinion angle again to get the damn driveshaft to smooth out. had it reblanced twice and its still not agreeing with me. i think there is just too much working angle at ride height. if i drop the rear end 2", its smooth as butter but that ride height is too low. Think im going to have to make a DC style shaft work and ill see if TAD still has the one i had them make a while back.

Then moved onto the front end where i blew the front mount up for the diff. It also blew the CV up with it, good thing for lifetime warranty lol. was going to make a whole new mount but that would take quite a bit of time to do and felt i could weld to this cast well enough to keep it together. pushed the bushing out and tacked the mount back together, then tacked supports in place, test fit in tracker, clearanced the frame mount, pre-heated the mount to 500*, welded it all in and let it slowly cool with a map gas torch. did this to weld the cast center section to the steel tubes on the diff and seemed to work. see how it works on this. Its not pretty but it will get the job done. just need to pick up a new CV axle to stab in.




trimmed up frame mount. had concerns of going too much and weakening it. didnt remove too much so i think it will work well still



got the rear axle adjusted so i can put a DC style shaft in and have the pinion angle correct. pulled the shocks and set pinion angle. Then started the 1500 times cycling the rear end to check for clearance. i thought for sure i would have to clearance the truss to make it miss the gas tank mounts near full bump but after sucking the links in and checking tire clearance to the front of the fender, shes clear by about 1/4 - 3/8". the rear brake hard line comes real close so i bent it in some and added another holding clamp to keep it out of the way. twisting the axle around screwed up my shock mounts and made the shocks hit the axle pretty bad at full droop. That was the other half of my battle. fix wasnt too bad though, just pie cut the mount with the plasma, hammered it backwards 1/2" and up 1/2" and we were golden





i also ditched the e-brake cables as they kept hitting the driveshaft and it will not do ken block shit as they keep popping off the ends of the lever that connect to the shoes.

Stabbed the new drive shaft in, set pinion angle and put a new CV axle in the RF. smooth as silk on the highway now.
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Old 08-17-2018, 10:14 AM   #179 (permalink)
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Went up to Payson and ran Pool Hole Creek. trail isnt actually called that (no idea what Peej's call it) but there is a hole at the beginning of the trail that will swallow a 39" tire and you would never know its there till its too late. Wife and kiddo went with me as well. Had a blast, i love this trail mainly cause the trail was named after the pool i filled in in my back yard. Anyhow, my junk had no issues surprisingly but the link mounts kept ramming rocks where my break over angle wasnt high enough or couldnt slide along. i may or may not build longer ramps along the frame rail to get them to slide up rocks instead. will add strength to the weak frame too. Trail got pretty beat up and dug out from all the rain up there, water level was pretty high too.

Stuck. i hate mud. took two rigs hooked together and winch to get me out. hadnt even started the trail yet lol




the "pool hole" is about 5 ft in front of the RF tire of that samurai. i was trying to guide him through but his steering went to shit and had to back out.


lunch



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Old 08-17-2018, 10:14 AM   #180 (permalink)
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the ledges that were about to deny me worse than my debit card 2 days after payday





last fall, right side is the only way our small rigs could make it out


Samurai denied trying the left side


Wifes in car videoing of us going up the right side of the fall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrgJL8Dv7-U
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Old 08-17-2018, 12:45 PM   #181 (permalink)
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Wow, great pics. Thanks again for keeping up with this thread.

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Old 08-25-2018, 12:51 AM   #182 (permalink)
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Looks like some sweet wheeling

What do you think is limiting/hampering your off road performance the most? I'm still going backwards and forwards between long travel IFS and doing a SAS. I'm currently renovating various bits of my house so mine hasn't left the drawing board yet
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Old 09-11-2018, 02:04 PM   #183 (permalink)
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Looks like some sweet wheeling

What do you think is limiting/hampering your off road performance the most? I'm still going backwards and forwards between long travel IFS and doing a SAS. I'm currently renovating various bits of my house so mine hasn't left the drawing board yet
The twiggy little CV axles. ive got to be real careful where i put the front tires if its dry out and i can catch traction. the IFS its self has yet to hinder me in anything that my samurai on toy axles could articulate over or crawl. Im not so much into hard crawling anymore though. i have not hit table mesa out here in a couple years. There is some pretty difficult stuff there and some trails just wont do due to body damage. Im much more into desert pounding and trail riding. i do a lot of riding with rzr's and back country exploring. I wont call it fucking overlanding cause mall crawlers do that. Before "overlanding", there was what we in the west called "prerunning" where you pre ran roads/trails for races or for long trips you did as a group. There is no going slow here, its all about putting down miles and floating through the rough stuff on suspension designed for it. We also do lots of runs down to baja for fun. Actually headed down there next month with the tracker to do a quick run from rocky point to el golfo and back. So rock crawling is 2nd to me and hauling ass off road is 1st.

this kind of shows with my lower link mounts. they are rock grabbers but i wanted the low anti squat for the speed. i may add a longer run of steel along the frame with some of that plastic stuff to let them slide up rocks more but we will see. need to run more trails first.
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Old 09-25-2018, 11:36 AM   #184 (permalink)
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Well i finally got fed up enough with the stock CV's, i said it was time to upgrade.

We had gone on a long trip up to Bagdad Mine where we would run some back roads to old mines and end up in the back side of Prescott. on the way to Black Pearl Mine, the road is pretty washed out and real fun obsticles. I decided to stay out them to keep the front end alive but another fellow zuker asked why in the world i was not following him... i was not urked about this situation lol.

So decided it was time to put the toyota cv conversion in ive had for this thing for the last 2.5 years. its by no means a bolt in for a 2nd gen but i could make it work.

Cv comparison



brass bushing that gets put into the hub will not work on a 2nd gen as they use a needle bearing factory, most likely due to the fact the CV's turn all the time. made up a steel press in bushing to make up the extra space



clearanced the knuckle for the bigger CV




Now the factory diff mounts are HUGELY in the way for the adapters on toyota CV's to work. My pass side has been clearanced already (as you can see in previous posts) but the driverside needed alot of love. i moved it away from the diff 1" and shortened it 1", i also lengthened the pass side 1" as the diff is not centered based off the axle flanges. adding the driverside stub to the pass side off set the diff 3/4" now. when i test fitted the toy cv, it was bottoming out before i could get the top strut bolt in. Moving it 1" away fixed that though its a bit much now yet the driver side is perfect so ill run a little 1/2 spacer on the pass side CV.

changed up mounts




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Old 09-25-2018, 11:37 AM   #185 (permalink)
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pass side assembled



clearance for days now




i run wheel spacers so hub doesnt stick that far out but the spacers will go away when i go LT



Just need to pick up nuts and wait on the cv spacer and its done. CV's make the diff look tiny. Now its a question of will i break a long side axle or a ring and pinion first? lmao

i did all this as im not sure when ill get the time to dive into the LT kit. i still want to wheel and im tired of worrying about the damn stock cv's. much happier now

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Old 09-26-2018, 02:01 PM   #186 (permalink)
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What year, make, model are the new axles?


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Old 09-26-2018, 02:07 PM   #187 (permalink)
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The Grand crawler/cruiser build

86-95 Toyota pickup/4Runner

Zukparts.com sells the adapter kit out of Australia. You have to source the hubs and axles and it’s going to take a good amount of work as posted above to make work on a 2nd gen. Kit is designed around a 1st gen

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Old 09-26-2018, 05:15 PM   #188 (permalink)
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I'm in a Sport, which seams to be using the 1st Gen hub assemblies.

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Old 09-26-2018, 07:35 PM   #189 (permalink)
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I'm in a Sport, which seams to be using the 1st Gen hub assemblies.

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Sport is in the mid year changes. Diff mounts will be different due to the wider frame and they may or may not use needle bearings
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Old 09-27-2018, 05:27 AM   #190 (permalink)
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Looking good
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Old 11-02-2018, 11:26 AM   #191 (permalink)
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Well all my work to do this so "i can work on the LT and drive it at the same time" as come close to a screeching halt.

We made a trip down to mexico with a bunch of rzr to run from rocky point to el golfo and back in a couple days time. i bumped rear nitrogen pressure up to 275psi and added 1" of preload in the spring. jacked the back end way up till i got loaded down with ice chests, food, tools, parts, clothes and myself and my buddy in there. it sat about perfect and valving was spot on. We started off on the first dirt road and hit little 1ft deep whoops and this thing straight soaked them up like they were never there. hit drop offs and other crap at about 45-50mph till we got into the 2ft deep stuff and the front end just didnt wanna keep up. so instead of killing it on the way to el golfo, we took it easy. had 0 issues on the way there.

On the way back, things again went great till the last train station where is about 20 miles till rocky point. this is where you hit 2-2.5ft deep whoops and the last 10 miles it starts tapering down. My buddy and i said "fuck it, lets rail this thing". i wanted to see just how crappy or good the front end would do and the rear end. we hit them at about 50mph and started floating the tops of the whoops. rear end was working perfect, front end was giving its all but not bottoming out. slowing down only caused the front end to dip and cause the thing to shoot for the sky lol. We did good till we hit a large whoop and BOOM, we go sailing about 2 whoops worth and slam the front into another whoop but it keeps trucking. i pulled it back a hair and keep going but watching for more of that to stab the brakes if i can. The rear end never bottomed and just floated. i smacked bumps twice but never went all the way through. We finish at the end of the road with hysterical laughter, beating the rzr's and disbelief at what this thing just did!!

after getting to a resturant for dinner, i noticed it wasnt driving right and frankly i knew there was no way this old girl didnt get some kind of front end damage. specially with the crap thin front frame. i didnt even care to look it over till we got home

Looked at it last week and the damage report is as follows:

Frame is bent up just behind where i made the frame chop by the firewall (no plating for strength there)
Tops of frame rails may also be leaned in towards engine, need to measure to see
RF strut is shot
both front coil springs are sagging bad
toe'd out bad, probably from tweaked frame rails
exhaust cracked on driver side down pipe
hoping the spindles are not bent but this may be true (wouldnt surprise me).

Rear end is just fine. not a thing wrong with it which im thoroughly happy about since the front will need to be the same way.

you can see, she aint happy


im really going to have to look at doing a cage soon as the front end is done. that speed was too fast to not have one and getting the long travel done will just make me want to go that fast all the time.

So i dont know when ill get going on the front end but i may or may not fix the front end before doing the LT. I need something by May of 2019 for the ZP trip so we will see. having my second kiddo in Jan 2019 so time will be limited....
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:39 PM   #192 (permalink)
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Good to hear it's exceeding expectations, unfortunate about the front end but tbh I'm not surprised. The front stuff is pretty spindly even with the upgrades you've done so far. Looking forward to how this goes forward, if you're gonna cage it maybe extend it into the engine bay and loose the front frame altogether?
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Old 11-02-2018, 01:17 PM   #193 (permalink)
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Good to hear it's exceeding expectations, unfortunate about the front end but tbh I'm not surprised. The front stuff is pretty spindly even with the upgrades you've done so far. Looking forward to how this goes forward, if you're gonna cage it maybe extend it into the engine bay and loose the front frame altogether?
Oh trust me, i knew full well hitting that road would mean the chances of coming out unscathed would be next to 0. that becomes a slippery slope with going a full tube front end and more down time. when a cage goes in, it would be from the front bumper to the back bumper. there will be an "engine cage" already that the cage will attach to after the front end goes in but until the cage, there wont be much for support where the frame bent. I will just plate the frame on both sides and bottom over this weak area, similar to how i did the rear end.

once the actual interior cage goes in with the engine cage, everything should be nice and sturdy. Wont be bullet proof but will hold up till the next thing breaks lmao

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Old 11-02-2018, 01:31 PM   #194 (permalink)
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Sounds like a solid plan. Are you planning on stripping out the stock IFS subframe and building your own or just picking up on the stock mounts?
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Old 11-02-2018, 01:59 PM   #195 (permalink)
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Sounds like a solid plan. Are you planning on stripping out the stock IFS subframe and building your own or just picking up on the stock mounts?
ive got a front frame section from another GV thats been sitting at the house. it was suppose to be my "jig" but all ive done is wheel the damn thing around for 2 years lol. i plan to use it to build the front end for, cut my frame out, weld this one in. gives me tons of room and everything is square/ready to build off of. i even have a spare block ill drop on the motor mounts to make sure the new diff clears.
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Old 11-02-2018, 02:13 PM   #196 (permalink)
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ive got a front frame section from another GV thats been sitting at the house. it was suppose to be my "jig" but all ive done is wheel the damn thing around for 2 years lol. i plan to use it to build the front end for, cut my frame out, weld this one in. gives me tons of room and everything is square/ready to build off of. i even have a spare block ill drop on the motor mounts to make sure the new diff clears.
Sounds like a damn good idea.
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Old 03-04-2019, 07:32 AM   #197 (permalink)
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Really looking forward to the next update.

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Old 03-05-2019, 01:37 PM   #198 (permalink)
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Really looking forward to the next update.

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going to be a while still. Second kiddo came along last month so progress will be slow.

i did get it back going again though for the time being. gotta do head gaskets on my diesel so i need a drivable vehicle between then.

wound up cutting the frame and pulling it down 1" to get it back straight, then plated it. Frame is only bent in about 1/8" on each side so im not fucking with that. fairly certain the hubs are bent more than the frame. little camber adjustment and shes back driving straight again. ride height is back to normal as well.

cut, bent, rewelded


plated both sides


attempted to see if calimini front 2 door springs from a first gen would lift the front end more. nope and they coil bind about 3" before i hit full bump



back to driving! missed driving this thing. like a caddy on the road.


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Old 03-08-2019, 07:35 AM   #199 (permalink)
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Congratulations on the new child. I think I am going to tackle the Toyota axle mod, after I finish the air locker installation.
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Old 03-17-2019, 09:23 AM   #200 (permalink)
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I swore this day would never come.... finally got to start on the front end setup.

First was the “let’s tempt fate” with tearing the frame section down.



Yes yes... those are ratchet straps. Sadly, I’m not dead or wheel chair bound. It actually went very uneventful.



With all the fun out of the way, it was off to setting up the jig to see how far off the calimini arms would be



Those sweet tabs



Measured out 3” from the knuckle, cut the tack and moved the whole thing out 3”. Squared up and tacked down well. Still going to add more bracing once I get ready to burn everything in. Then dropped the calimini arm in to see how far off I was. The frame mount points are 3/8” narrower than the second gen (these are first gen trackick arms) so I pulled the inside bushings out to get them to drop in. It’s soooooo close. Damn near 3” wider than stock second gen as is!





It’s 1” too far back towards what would be the firewall. I technically have the room to just run it this way but by the time the ball joint would drop into the knuckle, it would be 1/2” shorter. Sooo out came the plasma. Cut the tubing off at the boxed area where the spring goes and started grinding my life away and cutting tube.

Made a whole new rear pivot with .250 wall 2” tube for the bushings to ride in and .250 wall 1.75” tube to connect to the boxed section from the bushing. 1/4” brace throw in. Other side just took a little grinding and tacked back into place





That’s where I stopped for the day. I plan to box in the top of where the spring would go and double shear how the ball joint mounts. The coilovers will be mounting there so needs to be strong. Then buzz it all in. I may add some more .120 tube cut in half to the bottom of the front tube to give it strength against rocks.
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