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chevy1925 03-17-2019 10:29 PM

Some kind of wannabe sxs build (side by sidekick?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44364932)
No worries, I'd rather know now than when I'm trying to put it together.

And honestly I'm a little pissed that the $500 locker and $350 Toyota cv kit I bought for this rig didn't specify that they wouldn't work with my rig.



I was the first one to try the kit from Ben (owner for zukiparts) on a second gen. I told him about a year ago they are no where near a bolt on kit. Problem is a Vitara over seas is like our sidekick/trackers from 89-95. So not the same but hard to put on the site what it will and wonít fit unless you know what to look for

If it helps, I may have a guy out here that would take that cv kit. Help lesson this blow ya had. PM if you want and Iíll see if I can get you two in touch

YotaAtieToo 03-17-2019 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevy1925 (Post 44364946)
I was the first one to try the kit from Ben (owner for zukiparts). I told him about a year ago they are no where near a bolt on kit. Problem is a Vitara over seas is like our sidekick/trackers from 89-95. So not the same.

If it helps, I may have a guy out here that would take that cv kit. Help lesson this blow ya had. PM if you want and I’ll see if I can get you two in touch

Ya, I guess I saw vitara and thought it would be good to go. So much stuff interchanges that you would think it would work. Yet, obviously, many things are different.

The locker I have is from trail tough, it looks like the modified a Sami lockrite to fit in a tracker carrier. It had a core charge and came already in a carrier. Will this swap out the air actuated deal? Or do I need an entire different 3rd?

OK, Ill keep it in mind, thank you. I do have 2 good used factory cv's, 1 new cv, 2 complete hubs and 1 drive flange to go with the kit.

I really wanted a smaller 2 door or possibly a Sami. So I may hang onto it incase I decide to drop this drive train into an older rig.

chevy1925 03-17-2019 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44364950)
Ya, I guess I saw vitara and thought it would be good to go. So much stuff interchanges that you would think it would work. Yet, obviously, many things are different.

The locker I have is from trail tough, it looks like the modified a Sami lockrite to fit in a tracker carrier. It had a core charge and came already in a carrier. Will this swap out the air actuated deal? Or do I need an entire different 3rd?

OK, Ill keep it in mind, thank you. I do have 2 good used factory cv's, 1 new cv, 2 complete hubs and 1 drive flange to go with the kit.

I really wanted a smaller 2 door or possibly a Sami. So I may hang onto it incase I decide to drop this drive train into an older rig.



If you have a carrier and locker ready, it will all drop right in. Only the carrier is different in there so you are still golden there. Just plug the hole for the air line on the outside of the diff with a vac plug or something once done.

He would take it all and says heís game. Just let me know! First gen would be much easier to swap in lol.

Really the only swappable parts are the big things like engine, trans, tcase (up to 03 when trans output changed), thirds/gears, front diff and possibly driveshaft parts. Front arms, struts, cv axles, knuckles, spindles, rear links, springs, steering, and lots of other stuff are all different. Iíve basically gone all custom at this point cause there wasnít enough upgraded parts for me and RCV didnít want to work with me on upgraded axle shafts or cv axles

YotaAtieToo 03-18-2019 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevy1925 (Post 44364956)
If you have a carrier and locker ready, it will all drop right in. Only the carrier is different in there so you are still golden there. Just plug the hole for the air line on the outside of the diff with a vac plug or something once done.

He would take it all and says he’s game. Just let me know! First gen would be much easier to swap in lol.

Really the only swappable parts are the big things like engine, trans, tcase (up to 03 when trans output changed), thirds/gears, front diff and possibly driveshaft parts. Front arms, struts, cv axles, knuckles, spindles, rear links, springs, steering, and lots of other stuff are all different. I’ve basically gone all custom at this point cause there wasn’t enough upgraded parts for me and RCV didn’t want to work with me on upgraded axle shafts or cv axles

OK, let me think about it for a bit. I'm not sure how else I will be able to make these 32s fit with out pushing the tire forward.

Here's an idea, why don't you just sell me all of your diff mounts? :D

chevy1925 03-18-2019 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44365138)
OK, let me think about it for a bit. I'm not sure how else I will be able to make these 32s fit with out pushing the tire forward.

Here's an idea, why don't you just sell me all of your diff mounts? :D

:laughing: sadly they have been spoken for already along with my front diff. dont forget the custom bushings :D.

You can always do the frame chop. that lets you gain lift you want as well as firewall clearance. how i did mine. keeps CV angles nice, lots of tire clearance, and gains lift. you will have to redo engine mounts (easy as the brackets unbolt from the frame, just weld them where you want them after moving the frame), steering (they use a jacked up retarded 2 joint setup. i clearanced mine for more angle and moved one way up the steering shaft), radiator mount (just cut and reweld), brake lines, and front driveshaft.

otherwise you can see if Alter Ego will sell you just the front arms for a GV. they move the tire forward 1.5" iirc

YotaAtieToo 03-18-2019 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevy1925 (Post 44365242)
:laughing: sadly they have been spoken for already along with my front diff. dont forget the custom bushings :D.

You can always do the frame chop. that lets you gain lift you want as well as firewall clearance. how i did mine. keeps CV angles nice, lots of tire clearance, and gains lift. you will have to redo engine mounts (easy as the brackets unbolt from the frame, just weld them where you want them after moving the frame), steering (they use a jacked up retarded 2 joint setup. i clearanced mine for more angle and moved one way up the steering shaft), radiator mount (just cut and reweld), brake lines, and front driveshaft.

otherwise you can see if Alter Ego will sell you just the front arms for a GV. they move the tire forward 1.5" iirc

No worries, I figured, it was worth a shot though :flipoff2:

I'm not afraid of custom fab like you did, my 4runner has custom built frame sections at both ends. It's just not the what I had in mind for this thing.

Altered ego will sell me the arms, for around $600.

I may just tackle the modded diff mounts like you did, it doesn't look that bad. I don't want to be popping the Honda civic cv shafts every time out.

chevy1925 03-18-2019 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44365284)
No worries, I figured, it was worth a shot though :flipoff2:

I'm not afraid of custom fab like you did, my 4runner has custom built frame sections at both ends. It's just not the what I had in mind for this thing.

Altered ego will sell me the arms, for around $600.

I may just tackle the modded diff mounts like you did, it doesn't look that bad. I don't want to be popping the Honda civic cv shafts every time out.

thats not bad. it will just come down to cost vs your time. if i were you, i would do it. shift the diff to the driverside about 1/2" to 3/4" and you MIGHT get away without needing to run a spacer. if not, both sides might need a little 1/4" one but that again will need to be made/machined. i moved mine too much so the driver side so the pass side got the whole spacer. i blew way too many CV axles. the kit was sitting around so i made it work till i got the new front end done. Lets me keep wheelin.

i hacked up the stock diff mounts and plated the hell out of them. i dont know how long they will last since they are cast. attempted to make first gen mounts work but it would have been more work.

on second thought. if you do the hagen mod, the pass side will bolt in without issue and you may be able to just use a t100 axle on the driver side, worse case just add a spacer to make the difference for the stock pick up axle. either way, diff mounts need a major rework.

jr4x 03-18-2019 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44365284)
I don't want to be popping the Honda civic cv shafts every time out.


With the 32's I guess you might have a legitimate concern. I haven't lost one yet knock on wood.

Quick back story. In 2014 when I built the green 2wd one, I had the front end from a rolled 95 4 door which are 22 spline in the diff. So I bought my TT locker for that. My CV boots were torn and joints sloppy so I bought two new shafts from rock auto and sent the others back as cores. I put drive flanges like off your vitara on it and beat the piss out of it till I gave up on the 8V engine.

Then in 2016 when I built the 4 door to replace it, I swapped those same shafts and locked front diff into it. I'm really hard on this thing and the entire time I've been bashing on it I've worried about 3 things. The aluminum diff breaking, CV shafts breaking, or both. I've crawled it in rocks and had it on the rev limiter in sand and mud with those aggressive tires. I do have to keep a constant eye on the bolts that hold the front diff to the drop brackets. But it's still the 22 spline stuff from the older car. They might do better than you think.

Lastly, isn't the gen 1 diff narrower than the gen 2?

chevy1925 03-18-2019 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr4x (Post 44365344)
With the 32's I guess you might have a legitimate concern. I haven't lost one yet knock on wood.

Quick back story. In 2014 when I built the green 2wd one, I had the front end from a rolled 95 4 door which are 22 spline in the diff. So I bought my TT locker for that. My CV boots were torn and joints sloppy so I bought two new shafts from rock auto and sent the others back as cores. I put drive flanges like off your vitara on it and beat the piss out of it till I gave up on the 8V engine.

Then in 2016 when I built the 4 door to replace it, I swapped those same shafts and locked front diff into it. I'm really hard on this thing and the entire time I've been bashing on it I've worried about 3 things. The aluminum diff breaking, CV shafts breaking, or both. I've crawled it in rocks and had it on the rev limiter in sand and mud with those aggressive tires. I do have to keep a constant eye on the bolts that hold the front diff to the drop brackets. But it's still the 22 spline stuff from the older car. They might do better than you think.

Lastly, isn't the gen 1 diff narrower than the gen 2?

the spline count isnt the weak point, its the overall cv size thats weak. the stock CV's are the strongest but you crank teh wheel too hard and put the tire in a bind and BOOM, bye bye outer cv. ive blown up 4 stock CV's thus far. 2nd gens aint light though and 33x12.50's seem to scare CV's into breaking if you look at them wrong. go to a 31 and it seems to change but who the hell goes down in tire size! the sad part is ive seen guys wheel the piss out of stock CV's locked up front or not and they never break. i broke one just turning on rock in 4wd in moab. too much grip i guess.

no, 1st and 2nd gen diffs are the same. that is a fact i know 100%. the only thing different is the ring gear carrier and the spline count for CV's but that again varies on internal spider gears. locker and or spider gear change can fix that.

i honestly thought first gen control arms were the same between first and second gen rigs till a few weeks ago when my buddy tried to put first gen calimini arms on his second gen and they actually would move the tire back toward the firewall and the frame mounts are a hair narrower. i had a pair of new stamped steel first gen arms i planned to make for my LT kit but i bought the calimini arms from my buddy since they were already wider and heavier duty. Damn suzuki changing shit up.


Oh yotaatietoo, one other thing i though of, you may see if first gen spindles fit on second gen knuckles. if they do, no need for the custom bushing. i "think" they are the same but ive not tried bolting a pair up. i know the knuckles are for sure different so you cant swap the whole thing over.

YotaAtieToo 03-18-2019 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevy1925 (Post 44365320)
thats not bad. it will just come down to cost vs your time. if i were you, i would do it. shift the diff to the driverside about 1/2" to 3/4" and you MIGHT get away without needing to run a spacer. if not, both sides might need a little 1/4" one but that again will need to be made/machined. i moved mine too much so the driver side so the pass side got the whole spacer. i blew way too many CV axles. the kit was sitting around so i made it work till i got the new front end done. Lets me keep wheelin.

i hacked up the stock diff mounts and plated the hell out of them. i dont know how long they will last since they are cast. attempted to make first gen mounts work but it would have been more work.

on second thought. if you do the hagen mod, the pass side will bolt in without issue and you may be able to just use a t100 axle on the driver side, worse case just add a spacer to make the difference for the stock pick up axle. either way, diff mounts need a major rework.

My plan was to move the diff like you did but not make the pass stub as short.

T100 is 3" longer I believe

Good idea on the spindles, I was thinking something along those lines.

YotaAtieToo 03-18-2019 01:36 PM

What about just building new arms with a mini uniball or 7/8 hiem to replace the lower bj? Would be pretty straightforward with a fixture really.

chevy1925 03-18-2019 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44365454)
My plan was to move the diff like you did but not make the pass stub as short.

T100 is 3" longer I believe

Good idea on the spindles, I was thinking something along those lines.

yup, 3" longer

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44365576)
What about just building new arms with a mini uniball or 7/8 hiem to replace the lower bj? Would be pretty straightforward with a fixture really.

maybe, if you use a allen bolt that is tapered to be like a misalignment spacer to rotate into the ball but with toy CV's, you have very little room as is with the stock ball joint in there. i dont like heims that far out, puts a shit ton of strain on the weakest part of the heim but if a mini uni-ball fits....

or just do like i am and use a first gen bolt on ball joint. be real simple then

YotaAtieToo 03-18-2019 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevy1925 (Post 44365642)
yup, 3" longer



maybe, if you use a allen bolt that is tapered to be like a misalignment spacer to rotate into the ball but with toy CV's, you have very little room as is with the stock ball joint in there. i dont like heims that far out, puts a shit ton of strain on the weakest part of the heim but if a mini uni-ball fits....

or just do like i am and use a first gen bolt on ball joint. be real simple then

That would be the easy solution.

86chevyjoe 03-18-2019 11:00 PM

I vote samurai front end or CJ Dana 30, 3 link, air shocks and sway bar and go wheel :flipoff2::flipoff2:

Enough of this weak zuk ifs stuff that’s turning into frankenzuk :laughing::flipoff2:

YotaAtieToo 03-19-2019 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86chevyjoe (Post 44366194)
I vote samurai front end or CJ Dana 30, 3 link, air shocks and sway bar and go wheel :flipoff2::flipoff2:

Enough of this weak zuk ifs stuff thatís turning into frankenzuk :laughing::flipoff2:

Says the guy with a :rainbow: rzr :rainbow:

chevy1925 03-19-2019 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86chevyjoe (Post 44366194)
I vote samurai front end or CJ Dana 30, 3 link, air shocks and sway bar and go wheel :flipoff2::flipoff2:

Enough of this weak zuk ifs stuff thatís turning into frankenzuk :laughing::flipoff2:

:barf:

2big bronco 03-19-2019 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86chevyjoe (Post 44366194)
I vote samurai front end or CJ Dana 30, 3 link, air shocks and sway bar and go wheel :flipoff2::flipoff2:

Enough of this weak zuk ifs stuff thatís turning into frankenzuk :laughing::flipoff2:


Yeah, let's take the only 2 axles you could possibly think of weaker then a suzuki ifs and sugest the op do a ton of work to put them in. Let's also disregard the fact that the sami front is almost 6" narrower then his vitara track width.

YotaAtieToo 03-19-2019 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevy1925 (Post 44366448)
:barf:

I think the Sami axle is too small for these 2nd gen 4 doors, even with just 32s. CJ D30 wouldn't be horrible if just sticking with 32s except they are stupid narrow (50" wms?) I would probably just go straight to Toyota mini truck axles.

Or I think my 60s with 6.17s from my 4runner may be salvageable :flipoff2:

chevy1925 03-19-2019 12:03 PM

Lmao! i constantly stare at a 90% ready to go 89 ford d60 sitting on the shelf at work.... just cant bring myself to that heavy ass axle lol.

the stock rear axle on a second gen is 60" wide wms to wms. i ran 1.5" wheel spacers so front tires would clear the struts, that put the front end at 64" wms to wms and rear was 63". im now on a 2001 f150 full size 8.8 rear axle at 65" and no spacers in the rear and imho, its not as bad as i was thinking. and explorer 8.8 is 59" so would still need spacers to even match the stock zuk axle. i think the 95 and older full size 8.8 are narrower so you could get something even closer. i wanted the width for the LT front end im going to

front needs to be in the 61-62" range to keep it close to stock and under the fenders. IIRC there was a jeep d44 front that was real damn close to that. might have been the wagoneer.

honestly id just go full size axles and run shallow off set wheels. hubs will stick out some but not terrible. you get the best scrub radius and on/off road driving then too.

YotaAtieToo 03-19-2019 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevy1925 (Post 44366808)
Lmao! i constantly stare at a 90% ready to go 89 ford d60 sitting on the shelf at work.... just cant bring myself to that heavy ass axle lol.

the stock rear axle on a second gen is 60" wide wms to wms. i ran 1.5" wheel spacers so front tires would clear the struts, that put the front end at 64" wms to wms and rear was 63". im now on a 2001 f150 full size 8.8 rear axle at 65" and no spacers in the rear and imho, its not as bad as i was thinking. and explorer 8.8 is 59" so would still need spacers to even match the stock zuk axle. i think the 95 and older full size 8.8 are narrower so you could get something even closer. i wanted the width for the LT front end im going to

front needs to be in the 61-62" range to keep it close to stock and under the fenders. IIRC there was a jeep d44 front that was real damn close to that. might have been the wagoneer.

honestly id just go full size axles and run shallow off set wheels. hubs will stick out some but not terrible. you get the best scrub radius and on/off road driving then too.

Dang, I didn't realize they were 60" Wide, that's 2" wider than an ifs Toyota and 5" wider than a stock straight axle.

An Fj80 front axle is 63.5" and is a perfect width for 37s, I ran an ifs rear with 2" spacers and an Fj80 front on my old Sami and 4runner before the 60s. The width is great.

A lightweight rig with bulletproof axles works really well around here on serious crawling trails. Those axles with some 39" stickies under this rig would be a ton of fun.

2big bronco 03-19-2019 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44367008)
Dang, I didn't realize they were 60" Wide, that's 2" wider than an ifs Toyota and 5" wider than a stock straight axle.

An Fj80 front axle is 63.5" and is a perfect width for 37s, I ran an ifs rear with 2" spacers and an Fj80 front on my old Sami and 4runner before the 60s. The width is great.

A lightweight rig with bulletproof axles works really well around here on serious crawling trails. Those axles with some 39" stickies under this rig would be a ton of fun.


Stay on track and build your ifs vitaratracker so I can copy all of your hard work figuring it out. Or just pay you to do the same to mine since I'm lazy.

YotaAtieToo 03-19-2019 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2big bronco (Post 44367082)
Stay on track and build your ifs vitaratracker so I can copy all of your hard work figuring it out. Or just pay you to do the same to mine since I'm lazy.

Maybe I'll just sell it back to you when I'm done :laughing:

86chevyjoe 03-19-2019 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44366244)
Says the guy with a :rainbow: rzr :rainbow:

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44366778)
I think the Sami axle is too small for these 2nd gen 4 doors, even with just 32s. CJ D30 wouldn't be horrible if just sticking with 32s except they are stupid narrow (50" wms?) I would probably just go straight to Toyota mini truck axles.

Or I think my 60s with 6.17s from my 4runner may be salvageable :flipoff2:

Say what you want, the rzr keeps up with the best of them while I build my next rig :flipoff2:

CJ widetrack is same width as trackick rear - those frames are almost perfect for link suspension once you get all the brackets off :D

YotaAtieToo 03-19-2019 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86chevyjoe (Post 44367372)
Say what you want, the rzr keeps up with the best of them while I build my next rig :flipoff2:

CJ widetrack is same width as trackick rear - those frames are almost perfect for link suspension once you get all the brackets off :D

Like I said, it's already snowballed way more than intended. Solid axle and links are not on the list at all.

chevy1925 03-19-2019 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86chevyjoe (Post 44367372)
Say what you want, the rzr keeps up with the best of them while I build my next rig :flipoff2:



CJ widetrack is same width as trackick rear - those frames are almost perfect for link suspension once you get all the brackets off :D



The cj wide track is not the same width as his current rear axle. Wide tracks are 56Ē wide. His rear is 60Ē as stated before


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