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Old 05-16-2005, 01:19 PM   #1 (permalink)
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odd transfercase noise&problem. probably only tcase gurus can help.

Well, I'm getting ready to go to Moab this weekend and want to patch up any possible loose ends for mechanical failure and I figured I would finally ask you guys about this one. When in 4hi (cant seem to go fast neough in 4low) and going over say 30mph, during certain driving conditions, I will get a horrible grinding noise of a sorts. there are 2 instances in which this noise will occur. First, it seems to always occur over say 30mph. The noise comes whenever i'm holding in(or pushing in) the clutch and the transmission is in neutral(same noise occures if i'm crusing 30mph+ and slip the stick into the neutral position). So, lets call tranny in neutral the first instance of the noise since it appears to happen in any neutral instance. The next instance in which it occures is when i'm in gear and I let off the gas. It will make the grinding noise for a couple of seconds and then as soon as my car starts to coast(while still in gear mind you)it will go away(engine is still under load but not on the acceleration end).....so there is the noise for the few seconds betweeen drive and coast(not sure if the tranny goes into neutral between these 2 load bearing stages or not) So this may all come down to a 'no-load' state that it occures in and not neccesarily neutral. Now for the tcase history. This has occured ever since the sammy was bone stock, no gear, no lift,nothing. I put in a brand new set of calmini 6.5:1 gears and an entire transfercase re-build kit(syncros, everythign) when the gears were installed. The noise did not go away. Added my Trail tough YJ kit...still the noise. New transmission..still the noise. SOOOOO, i'm wondering if there is something in the tcase that you dont touch when rebuilding that could be causing this problme(like some internal clutch assembly that senses whether or not the case has a load on it), or if this normally happens when in 4-hi on a samurai? I would like to get it fixed if it is a legitimate problem before suffering breakage in the middle of nowhere.
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Old 05-16-2005, 01:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
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oh yeah, all ujoints have been replaced when it was both stock height and lifted so I doubt its ujoints or driveshaft angles....doesnt seem to make the noise in 4hi at low speeds.
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Old 05-16-2005, 11:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Maybe remove the rear drive shaft and run around in 4x4 high to try and duplicate the noise??

Seems when the truck is PUSHING the drivetrane, you've got noise. Rear end/front end?
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Old 05-17-2005, 07:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
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done that, stil makes noise when the rear shaft is not in...one of the other bulletin boards suggested that my splines on my front shaft are shot and said that this is actually common . Anyone hear of this?
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Old 05-17-2005, 09:59 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmoesmith
done that, stil makes noise when the rear shaft is not in...one of the other bulletin boards suggested that my splines on my front shaft are shot and said that this is actually common . Anyone hear of this?
When you find out what this is, let me know. I've had two seperate sammy cases in my truck, and they both make a rattle-grinding noise that sounds similar to what you are describing. The most recent one has less than 50k miles on it.

Mine happens in 2WD, 4HI, and 4LOW if I get going fast enough. When 4wd is engaged, the noise sounds like it comes from the front too. I was thinking out put shaft bearings, but I'm not sure.

This has also been with two seperate sets of drivelines, samurai ones to begin with, and now toyota ones.
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Old 05-17-2005, 11:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Put the t-case in neutral, tranny in 5th gear, let the truck idle. The clanking noise you'll hear, is that the same noise you're looking for?
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Old 05-17-2005, 11:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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i have had those same symptoms myself. it has always turned out to be driveshaft angles. the first time i had lowered my tcase a couple inches, and the angle on the intermediate shaft was too steep. i then lowered the engine and tranny to match, and the noise went away. the second time was after some suspension mods. the rear u-joint angles didnt match. the angle at the tcase end was steeper than at the pinion end. i put in a toy cv shaft and the noise went away. the best i can figure, any vibes coming from the u-joints will rattle the tcase gears when they are not under load. thats why it does it only when in neutral, and for a couple seconds after you let of the gas at speed. after those couple seconds of noise, the drivetrain is loaded on the coast side of the gears, and the noise goes away. put it in 5th gear with the tcase in neutral, let the clutch out, and rev the motor. if you hear the noise then its most likely a problem with the intermediate shaft. if you dont hear any noise, its will most likely be your rear driveshaft vibrating. are you still running the stock rear driveshaft? if so you probably need to get a toy cv shaft and then point the pinion at the tcase.

by the way we also had the same noise with my brothers sammy with a spring over and stock driveshafts. we put a toy cv shaft in this past weekend and it cured it.

ill bet this is clear as mud, but hopefully it all makes sense. -marty

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Old 05-18-2005, 03:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Driveshaft Shmoe. CV would help and I plan to replace mine with one if it goes. Until then, don't go over 30 in 4wd! Seriously, I almost always drive at speed in 2wd (and I have 2lo if needed) shifting to 4wd only when traction is an issue.
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Old 05-18-2005, 04:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrymac
Driveshaft Shmoe. CV would help and I plan to replace mine with one if it goes. Until then, don't go over 30 in 4wd! Seriously, I almost always drive at speed in 2wd (and I have 2lo if needed) shifting to 4wd only when traction is an issue.
OK, multiple people have said driveshaft angles now, however, like I said, this occured when it was bone stock height, stock tires and stock gearing. That said, shouldnt we be ruling out driveshaft angle? CV would be nice to have, but I dont think its the solution based on these facts.
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Old 05-18-2005, 06:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Throwout Bearing, from everyone I've talked to, they say thats the problem. I've got the same thing from what I can tell. Apparently most Zuks have that noise from what they said. -David-
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Old 05-18-2005, 10:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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unfortunatly not. made the noise before slapping in a new transmission and clutch, and still made it afterwards. replaced the throwout bearing at the time of the transmission replacement.
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Old 05-18-2005, 11:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmoesmith
unfortunatly not. made the noise before slapping in a new transmission and clutch, and still made it afterwards. replaced the throwout bearing at the time of the transmission replacement.
What about the piliot bearing?
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Old 05-19-2005, 07:52 AM   #13 (permalink)
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also replaced i'm going to try greasing the splines tonight and see if that fixes it.
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Old 05-19-2005, 08:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Another thing to check is the "dust cap/seal protector" thingamajigs that are on each of the t-case input/output flanges and the diff flanges. They can get knocked crooked or loose and make weird noises also.
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Old 05-20-2005, 10:25 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Thanks for the idea about the driveshaft angles. I bet that's what mine is. I'll work on getting Toy CV driveshafts soon.

Can you get the same range of motion with CV shafts? When I was looking at them in the junkyard I wasn't sure about how much movement they would have. Instead I just got standard shafts with the Toyota high angle joints.
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Old 05-20-2005, 12:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
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the 79 to 85 cv shafts from the solid axle trucks have a better angle capability than the 86 up cv shafts from the ifs trucks. the ifs shafts can be modified to get more angle capability. i am using a shaft from a 88 model truck. i took the cv joint apart and machined the rubber dust cup off of the flange. this makes the joint capable of 30 degrees of angle. im not positive but i think the cv joints from the solid axle trucks are probably capable of around 30 degrees without modification. if you can find a shaft from a solid axle truck, that will be the easiest way to go, but they are getting hard to find around here. if you cant find one you can get a shaft from an ifs truck and send it to jessie at high angle driveline and he can modify it for you to get more angle. hope this helps, -marty
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Old 08-25-2005, 09:17 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Arrow Narrowing down the noise.......

Well I have read all of the previous posts and I can say that I have the EXACT SAME PROBELMATIC NOISE. The noise seems to be a slight clatter whent I let off the gas and coast in tranny neutral. I have rebuilt the transfercase twice since the first time it didn't fix the problem I took it apart and worked through everything again to make sure it was good to go. One of the troubleshooting things I did after that was removed the front and rear driveshaft and ran the truck through all the gears to see where the noise was coming from. After climbing under the truck with it idleing in gear it seemed to be in the xfer case and at that point it had to be the input shaft or gear tollerances within the case (my 4.2-1 crawler gears are the old welded ones and wine pretty good anyways). I have had this noise for about 1.5 years and just deal with it cause I know I've got a new 5 sp, a new cluth thro-out and pilot, and a rebuilt transfer case, I have wheeled it a couple of weekends and its a DD and everything still seems fine so.....if anyone has anyother ideas or more input of what to check let me know......

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Old 08-25-2005, 10:14 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Mine does the same noise! It seems to do it when my free wheel hubs are locked in, but in 2 wheel drive. I found that the front output flange bearing in the front drive housing has no rearward stop on it. My front prop spline was too short and the prop was closing up and pushing the drive flange into the transfer case on full compression.

The space between the 4wd selectors inside the front housing was closed up and causing noise.

I can cure it by slide hammering the drive flange back out.

I cant see a cure, unless I machine an circlip groove inside the front drive housing to hold the bearing in place.

This may be what you are hearing, I dont know, but its definitely been a problem on 3 transfer cases Ive had on mine(413,410, and 4.16 low ratio)

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Old 08-25-2005, 03:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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all of mine have done it. I think it's normal
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Old 08-25-2005, 03:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Pull the front shaft and test it out.. thats my bet.
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Old 08-25-2005, 04:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I have the same noise, changed the tranny, t-case, put a traction bar thought it might be axle wrap the noise is still there, my buddy said it was my loc-rite?
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Old 09-08-2005, 08:35 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I still haven't gotten to this issue yet on my truck, but I'm about to. Before I try to tackle it, let me describe what I am getting again, and maybe this will help clarify? Who knows. I have a kicker 3 with a stock sidekick case and a stock sammy case. (no gears)

So, in 2WD WITHOUT the hubs locked in - over about 30 mph.

I give it gas, and while I'm shifting gears, it makes the rattle noise. I'm cruising down the road, and let off the gas to coast to a light, it makes the rattle noise for a couple of seconds, then stops.

In 5th gear, or in 4th going faster than 50mph - I coast for whatever reason, just let off the gas, it rattles like freaking crazy until it gets down around 35mph.

I put it in 4wd, it does it pretty much all the time, even giving it gas, but the noise comes from the front.

I've been through two samurai cases, and I'm on my second kicker case (without gears) and it still does it.

I did the "put it in 5th gear tcase in neutral noise check" and I got the noise for a second after I shifted, then it went away.

I'm going to assume driveline angles - but if there's anything else I should check, let me know?
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Old 07-28-2015, 04:01 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Anyone solve this issue yet? Does the later input shaft that is an upgrade do anything to the noise adding more teeth width on the shaft? Shimming?
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:40 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Yeah, I have been chasing this noise for some time and wondering if it's like a prior member said about the intermediate shaft angle. I am using petroworks 1.6 16v engine mounts. The noise amplifies when backing of the throttle under load like going down a hill. Anyone figure it out?
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:04 AM   #25 (permalink)
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My 6.4 gears do the same exact thing.

I think we need to take a look at what changes inside the transfer case when we are coasting and stick the input (transmission) into neutral. Basically take look at how power flows through the transfer case when being driven and also in coast.
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