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Old 10-22-2009, 07:14 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Fall 07

Beadlocks

Ruff Stuff is local, so went by there and picked up their 15” weld on beadlocks. All 4 for $175. The beadlocks were perfect, but this became a huge learning experience in itself. I didn’t know a damn thing about wheel construction, but things quickly changed. I prepped the wheels and welded on the 4 inner rings, proud of myself, and thinking the hard part was done. I go to the local Big-O for mounting. “These are reversed rims, you can’t mount them” What the hell is a reversed rim and what the hell does that mean?

Well apparently rims have this thing called a drop center, used to drop one side bead into while the other is stretched onto the rim. When wheels have low backspacing/large offset, they get built reverse shelled, that is, the drop center is on the opposite of the rim. The wheels that came with my package deal of used Toyota parts I had bought a year earlier are 15x10, with 2.125” (2 1/8”) backspacing, and are reverse drop centered. A reversed rim is traditionally mounted from the backside of the rim. Mounted from the backside, that is, unless you beadlock the outer bead (which my dumbass did). You cant get the outer bead outside the wheel with the inner bead mounted (or the other way around, you cant just mount the inner bead from the front side of the wheel). There is some info on this if you search

I wasn’t about to give up. At the time I was working at a fire sprinkler welding shop, and decided to take advantage of their orbital plasma machine (no fancy CNC anything, 100% manual set-up). If I didn’t try anything, the wheels were giant paper weights anyways. I cut about 1/4” off the radius of each wheel, and re-welded.

This is what was cut from each wheel


Spare axle shaft out the backside of a giant pipe lathe, wheel mounted, and all 4 wheels were quickly ‘turned’ (cleaned up by a 4 ˝” angle grinder). This whole process shaved a fair amount from each wheel. I wish I had pictures of some of this, but I am pretty sure I was supposed to be ‘working’ while most of this was going on

After buckets of lube, pry bars, fork lifts, etc., still no luck of mounting. I go to my local (non-chain, privately owned this time) tire shop, and hold my breathe (seriously, I went across the street as I couldn’t watch). They managed to mount all 4 without breaking any chords, although I know they had to be stretched pretty bad . One more step down. I am sure the width of the tire, and thick bead/sidewall of the SX helped. I bet a 12.5 wide radial would have ripped in half.

Finally assembled, 39(!) bolts x 4 wheels, and a little rattle can
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:15 PM   #52 (permalink)
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The backspacing/width of the wheels also seems excessive for reasons beyond tire mounting. Scrub in the front is pretty bad, but surprisingly, doesn’t really seem to hurt anything. In the end, I actually needed all the extra width from the wheels for clearance with the front links and tailgate.

Complete wheel/tire combo weighs a ridiculous 130 lbs each. Aired all the way up, the used tires measure 37.25” tall, and the full tread tire mounted on a non-locked 15x10 (spare) measures 37.75”.
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:22 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Damn Man you did everything I wish I had done. Is this your first link type build? Im amazed your tires clear the links. Im running waggy 44's at 61" WMS and my lower links converge in the middle and they almost touch. Im very jealous of you flat belly! Great work keep the pics flowing!
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:53 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Valley Auto View Post
Damn Man you did everything I wish I had done.
Serious question: what did I do that you wish you had done/ what did you wish you had done different?

Quote:
Is this your first link type build?
Yes, and no.

Is this the first link suspension I have done on my own vehicle, yes. Is this the first link suspension I have completely designed and built on my own, yes

However, I have helped design and build a few other rigs. I am not responsible for any comp winning set-ups, but am not a complete newb to this either

I am working on a post for this thread with all the details of my suspension geometry. No secrets, it is all coming


Quote:
Im amazed your tires clear the links. Im running waggy 44's at 61" WMS and my lower links converge in the middle and they almost touch.
My WMS-WMS is 58”, with wheel backspacing 2.125 (2 1/8). With 61” WMS-WMS, and wheel backspacing 3.625 (3 5/8), we should have equal width, at least at the inside of the wheel. I don’t know your wheel backspacing, but 3.75 is pretty common, and that would make only a Ľ “ difference in our widths, again, at the inside of the wheel.

I can’t lie, the lugs on my tires do touch the links at full lock. With the steering stops set to prevent (stock) birfield bind, those outer lugs barely clear the lower links. Steering isn’t limited, but I don’t have a whole hell of a lot of clearance either


Quote:
Im very jealous of you flat belly! Great work keep the pics flowing!
I am jealous of your Shogun!

Thanks, I am just getting started
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:19 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I wish I had worked around my body more and kept more of it intact before I cut it up. It would ne nice to be a little less buggy and a little more camping long trail friendly.

The problem for me was Im running triangulated four link front and rear with both diffs offset to the pass side. and with four wheel steer they had be almost identical. and also very triangulated as the short side axle didnt give me much options on link location.
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Old 10-23-2009, 12:32 AM   #56 (permalink)
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about the third bump, I see where you're coming from now. interesting about those reverse drop center wheels
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Old 10-23-2009, 03:34 PM   #57 (permalink)
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whats the outside of tire to outside of tire?


i am guessing 80-82
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Old 10-23-2009, 05:16 PM   #58 (permalink)
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nice welds and great build pics. keep it coming!! What about a good over all shot of the front and rear suspension ?
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:58 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Valley Auto View Post
I wish I had worked around my body more and kept more of it intact before I cut it up. It would ne nice to be a little less buggy and a little more camping long trail friendly.

The problem for me was Im running triangulated four link front and rear with both diffs offset to the pass side. and with four wheel steer they had be almost identical. and also very triangulated as the short side axle didnt give me much options on link location.

Rear steering axle, that is an entirely different animal. I dont see any way of doing that without a complete back-half.

Keeping this friendly for long trail rides, and multi-day camping trips was required. Its been a very fine line to walk though when you want buggy performance. That said, most of our camping gear is turning into backpacking gear
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Old 10-23-2009, 07:01 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Upper spring mounts.

For many related reasons, the springs will be completely outside the frame rail. That will limit travel some, but travel is way overrated anyways. It will be much more stable and predictable. I also wanted ride height to be adjustable for fine tuning. I wanted to run a full length spring, and with my desired ride height, it puts the upper spring mount well above the top of the frame. I don’t know what alcohol induced or dream state these things came from, but they actually work!



They slip down over the top of the frame, and use a piece of 1 Ľ “ allthread to adjust height. I got a 4’ piece of that all thread for free, and just cut it into 4 1ft sections. It isn’t my intention to use more than the last couple inches to adjust, and I plan to cut the excess off



and installed

Last edited by D Boz; 10-23-2009 at 07:11 PM. Reason: grammar, again
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Old 10-23-2009, 07:03 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Long story short all my parts and tools spent most of 2008 in storage. By the end of September 08 things had settled down. Actually they were fantastic, a real garage for all my junk. I made one last Rubicon trip mid October, overall great trip, but returned with a pretzeled drag link. I wasn’t about to spend a $1 to replace some micro-machine sized Samurai part, and with the new garage in order and a few dollars saved, the knife had come out.

I took a few last pictures

and then the top, doors, hood, seats, tail gate, etc started to come off


The weekend I did the spring over (1.5 years prior) was the longest it had ever been non-op, and that was only for about 30 hours.

The next step was harder than you think, but I knew what I had to do
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Old 10-23-2009, 07:06 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Other things collected about this time (Sep/Oct/Nov 08)

Johnny Joints from Summit Racing are $35.99. You can’t beat this. I considered bushings on one end, but the cost difference was minimal and was extra work. 14 (had 4, got 10 more) JJ’s it is. (8) 1.25” shank for the lowers, and (6) 1.00” shank for the uppers. All right hand thread. The Ballistic joints weren’t out at this time, but today I think they are the only things comparable for the price.
*edit, well they were $35.99 last year, apparently they are now $39.99, still a great deal
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CUR-CE9114/

Bolts for all the JJ’s are grade 8 9/16 from Fastenal. The hollow bolts (I believe for greasing) from Currie would have made me nervous, and the Fastenal bolts were much cheaper

I had thought about tapping the links, but with weld in bungs it made matching sizing, cutting link length, and doing it all at home so much easier. Bungs and jam nuts are from Ballistic. Also (2) RH 3/4x3/4 chromo heims and some spacers for the panhard



Lower links are 2” .250 DOM, uppers are 1.5” .120 DOM. $168 for a 20 ft of the 2” ($8.40 per foot), $84 for a stick of the 1.5” ($4.65 per foot). I also got a couple sticks of HREW 1.5 .120 @ $2.10/foot and a stick of HREW 1.5 .095 @ $1.60/foot. The hot rolled prices were decent, but next time I would do some more shopping around on the DOM. I was surprised that the 1.5 DOM was more than double the HREW. All from Del Paso Pipe and Steel. That was a year ago, I just got some more HREW 1.5 recently and it was about 30% cheaper than before

rear uppers, JJ’s, and bungs tacked in

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Old 10-23-2009, 07:09 PM   #63 (permalink)
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A couple more things I made just as I was getting underway.

Panhard mount for the frame, steering box mount, and tie-rod ram mount



I spent far more time measuring and designing that damn panhard mount than it took to make. The drag link and panhard end up perfectly parallel, and both exactly 37 ľ” long
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Old 10-23-2009, 07:22 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ShuDuck View Post
nice welds and great build pics.
Thank you
Quote:
keep it coming!! What about a good over all shot of the front and rear suspension ?
I know I keep saying there are lots more pictures and details coming, but there really are! Its hard to keep this is some rational order, but since you asked I will give up at least a little today

December 08
rear suspension tacked together and cycling


May 09
front suspension, I think it was actually driving, at least around the neighborhood, at this point. Looking closely, you can see both lowers, the upper, panhard (yes, it has a small bend in it), tie rod and drag link
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Old 10-23-2009, 07:24 PM   #65 (permalink)
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whats the outside of tire to outside of tire?


i am guessing 80-82
Good guess

81" even
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Old 10-24-2009, 12:56 PM   #66 (permalink)
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November 08, the real build starts

I guess I arbitrarily started with the rear. The front has more limiting factors, and may have been a better start.

Cutting up the rear fenders

Wanting to leave as much ‘Samurai’ as possible, I tried to minimize the rear fender cutting.

very first, hadn’t even pulled the rear axle, I guess in case I had to drive it somewhere

first cut, plus inner fender removal

rear tire mock-up, and more cut

After several cuts, my desire to keep it low forced me to cut off most everything but the snaps for the top. March/April 09
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Old 10-24-2009, 02:00 PM   #67 (permalink)
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sweet man! what is your belly hieght?
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Old 10-24-2009, 02:44 PM   #68 (permalink)
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I didn’t realize how many stock brackets are welded to the frame. Rear bumper, gas tank, spring hangers, shocks, bumpstops, lots more I don’t even remember what they were for. I hate grinding, especially under vehicles. Slowly, it all got cleaned up. Well, mostly. I left a few things to get back to, someday…



rear clean up in progress


outside of the frame clean



and some of the inside
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Old 10-24-2009, 02:51 PM   #69 (permalink)
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sweet man! what is your belly hieght?
Thanks. It varies from 15-18" in the pictures posted so far. I just measured today, with 25psi in the tires, the bottom of the Mighty Kong is 16 1/4", and the bottom of the frame is 17.5".

Here is a decent profile at trail pressure


I believe I raised it about 1" since that was taken
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Old 10-24-2009, 03:32 PM   #70 (permalink)
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I can't remember if you mentioned it or not, but what did you end up doing for a gas tank?
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:15 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Very sweet I think you might be lower than me LOL Guess its back to the drawing boards to slam it down alittle
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Old 10-25-2009, 06:42 AM   #72 (permalink)
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WOW! This may be the looowest one I have seen! Sweet man! Does everything work that low?
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Old 10-25-2009, 08:42 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Thumbs up

Looks good, I like them low. My thinking is get the front tires on it, stab the throttle and drag the rest across.

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Old 10-25-2009, 11:32 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Looks good, I like them low. My thinking is get the front tires on it, stab the throttle and drag the rest across.
thats pretty much how it works
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Old 10-25-2009, 11:56 AM   #75 (permalink)
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I can't remember if you mentioned it or not, but what did you end up doing for a gas tank?
I didn't really mention it, I was actually hoping nobody would ask

I will be building a 12-15 gallon cell in the next few months, but for now I am using the stock tank. Its bolted to the stock skid plate, and ratchet strapped down inside the bed It does make retaining all the smog junk easy Completely ghetto, but it is what it is
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