2nd gen Ram 2500/3500 long arms at stock height - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 11-26-2016, 12:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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2nd gen Ram 2500/3500 long arms at stock height

I searched and found no threads on this. All have some sort of lift.

I want to improve my 97 Ram 2500's ride quality and handling.

Have anyone successfully put on a long arm set up front at stock height? I don't want to run anything bigger than 33" tires and it's already plenty high as is.

I was thinking to go with long radius arms with large rubber bushings at frame end at least. I don't need mad flex ability. I just want it to be more pleasant to drive.
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Old 11-26-2016, 01:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What shocks are you running?
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Old 11-26-2016, 01:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I did it on my truck. Used ruffstuffs universal radius arm kit. Best thing I ever did. I have a Cummins on V8 springs and I have 37s. So it sits lower than a stock truck and I have no rub with 37s, but I slid the front axle forward about 2.5-3". Rides amazing now.
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Old 11-26-2016, 01:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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What shocks are you running?
Stock yellow body, blue boot Bilstein shocks. I changed them few years ago. If I remember correctly they're OEM replacement shocks.

I have Sulastic shackles in rear. They definitely helped to get the jolt out of fear end. Still rough ride overall though



Quote:
Originally Posted by silveranger93 View Post
I did it on my truck. Used ruffstuffs universal radius arm kit. Best thing I ever did. I have a Cummins on V8 springs and I have 37s. So it sits lower than a stock truck and I have no rub with 37s, but I slid the front axle forward about 2.5-3". Rides amazing now.
That's awesome to hear. Except I'll opt for bushings on all joints for longevity and low maintenance though. I don't need that much of flexing. It's a tow rig after all lol.

Main reason I don't want any bigger tires because they get expensive in a hurry and 33" is about max I can fit my spare tire underneath.


On another note, my truck ride like a Buick when it's loaded down heavy. By heavy I mean like 2,000 lbs in the bed or heavy tongue weight, otherwise it's a bouncy ride.
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Old 11-26-2016, 06:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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several years ago I updated my 3500 4x4 with new front springs (2" lift) and Sway Away shocks frt & rear. Way better than new ride. I made new arms using BF joints on axle side and poly bushed ends on frame side, with left & right threaded joint alignment is a breeze now. Synergy has washers that get rid of the camber bolt/washer so the axle bolt is centered solid. A $$ set of shocks work wonders.
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Old 11-26-2016, 08:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Here's a few photos of my setup.
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Old 12-04-2016, 04:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I did it on my truck. Used ruffstuffs universal radius arm kit. Best thing I ever did. I have a Cummins on V8 springs and I have 37s. So it sits lower than a stock truck and I have no rub with 37s, but I slid the front axle forward about 2.5-3". Rides amazing now.
Did you run into track bar issues? I want to do the same thing with mine to get the axle ahead but I didn't think I could go that far.
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Old 12-04-2016, 05:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Did you run into track bar issues? I want to do the same thing with mine to get the axle ahead but I didn't think I could go that far.
Yeah, I cut the cast section off the frame. Made my own using bushings and a new bracket. moves the frame side forward a few inches. It's actually the first track bar that's lasted longer than 18 months on this truck.

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Old 12-05-2016, 10:25 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Check out liberty mountain Fab . He makes a sweet setup. Also would know what you can and can't do at stock height

http://www.libertymountainfabrication.com
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Old 12-06-2016, 11:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I did it on my truck. Used ruffstuffs universal radius arm kit. Best thing I ever did. I have a Cummins on V8 springs and I have 37s. So it sits lower than a stock truck and I have no rub with 37s, but I slid the front axle forward about 2.5-3". Rides amazing now.
I really like the idea of long arms on stock height, your truck looks good. Are you running stock v8 springs or lifted? How much height gain or loss did you see compared to the stock cummins springs? Did they sag over time? I'm interested in improving the ride on my 07 cummins but would like to keep it near stock height.
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Old 12-06-2016, 12:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I really like the idea of long arms on stock height, your truck looks good. Are you running stock v8 springs or lifted? How much height gain or loss did you see compared to the stock cummins springs? Did they sag over time? I'm interested in improving the ride on my 07 cummins but would like to keep it near stock height.
They are Moog replacement V8 springs. Don't know the height comparison versus the stock diesel coils. I had a V8, then went V10, then diesel and just kept the V8 springs the whole way through. I like the low ride height especially towing a fifth wheel. I did put extended jounce bumpers in the front because the stock ones would let the frame side track bar mount to just barely touch the tie rod. So I bought extended bumpers for an XJ and cut them to the length that would stop that contact. I think they are maybe 1/4" longer than stock. So I've lost a bit of jounce travel but it's not noticeable in most conditions.
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Old 12-06-2016, 01:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
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They are Moog replacement V8 springs. Don't know the height comparison versus the stock diesel coils. I had a V8, then went V10, then diesel and just kept the V8 springs the whole way through. I like the low ride height especially towing a fifth wheel. I did put extended jounce bumpers in the front because the stock ones would let the frame side track bar mount to just barely touch the tie rod. So I bought extended bumpers for an XJ and cut them to the length that would stop that contact. I think they are maybe 1/4" longer than stock. So I've lost a bit of jounce travel but it's not noticeable in most conditions.
Love the ride height of your truck.. are you able to measure for me the distance from your front center cap to the fender flare lip? Just trying to figure out what your ride height is compared to my 3" Thuren soft ride coils. Also, what size tires are you running?

Cheers,
joe
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Old 12-06-2016, 01:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I just measured and it's 23.75" from the fender lip to the center of the hub. I also attached two better pictures of the truck. It has 37" tires on it.
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Old 12-06-2016, 01:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I just measured and it's 23.75" from the fender lip to the center of the hub. I also attached two better pictures of the truck. It has 37" tires on it.
Thanks for the ridiculously fast response and better pics! Since you've swapped over to the Cummins, have you ever felt the front dive aggressively under hard braking or roll scarily under highway cornering when you have little or no weight on the rear axle? And the Moog springs are basic stock height replacements for a gasser 2nd gen?

Sorry if this is derailing the thread, but I figure this might be useful info for "stock ride height" as there aren't many threads on that topic, since a lot of Ram owners that mod their trucks are leveled in the front at the very least. I'm a big fan of keeping the front end as low as the suspension cycling will allow.
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Old 12-06-2016, 01:57 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Thanks for the ridiculously fast response and better pics! Since you've swapped over to the Cummins, have you ever felt the front dive aggressively under hard braking or roll scarily under highway cornering when you have little or no weight on the rear axle? And the Moog springs are basic stock height replacements for a gasser 2nd gen?

Sorry if this is derailing the thread, but I figure this might be useful info for "stock ride height" as there aren't many threads on that topic, since a lot of Ram owners that mod their trucks are leveled in the front at the very least. I'm a big fan of keeping the front end as low as the suspension cycling will allow.
They are stock replacement springs for a 2500 V8.

As for the handling...that's a whole different beast. I've got half ton rear leaves +2 add a leaves with a 2" block (factory was like 4"). It also has air bags and traction bars in the rear. No sway bars front or rear.

Unloaded, the front is well controlled with Bilstein 5100s on it. No unnecessary dive or roll. In the rear the traction bars act as a sway bar (bushings on both ends) and it's amazingly stable.

Loaded it handles pretty well too. Evasive maneuvers with the fifth wheel show that it could use a bit more front roll stiffness (just more body roll than I'd like). Never unstable or even that noticeable, I just prefer very flat roll angles. It hasn't bothered me enough to fab up a bar setup on the front.
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Old 12-06-2016, 02:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Awesome, thanks for all that info! Now I need to do some research to try and find the spring rate of those Moog springs.. or OEM gasser springs.
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Old 12-07-2016, 10:05 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Awesome, thanks for all that info! Now I need to do some research to try and find the spring rate of those Moog springs.. or OEM gasser springs.
You're not hijacking/derailing the thread! This is something I want to discuss also

FYI Rockauto is an excellent source of tech data for that.

I used my truck, 1997 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel for the following:

The following two are 'variable rate'

CC1712 for club cab long bed diesel
More Information for MOOG CC1712
Spring rate 423 lbs/in

CC1710 for standard cab and long bed diesel
More Information for MOOG CC1710
Spring rate 400 lbs/in

I changed the vehicle look up for a V-8 instead of diesel

What's a big difference!!!

CC1708
More Information for MOOG CC1708
Spring rate 321 lbs/in
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Old 12-08-2016, 11:25 AM   #18 (permalink)
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My 03 on 37s road like shit too. I put a set of 5100 Series Bilsteins on it. Made a big improvement. Then I sold it 2 weeks later for a 2012 F350. THAT really made the ride to work more comfy.
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:26 PM   #19 (permalink)
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This is good info, thanks for sharing. Funny you mention the half ton leafs, I've been researching anyone using them but haven't found anything. Mostly just guys using 2500 leafs on 1500's. Did you notice much of a ride difference with the leaf swap? I think most of the firm ride of these trucks comes from the rear when your not towing or any weight in the back, fronts not that bad.
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:53 PM   #20 (permalink)
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My truck started as a half ton. No idea how it compares to stock 2500 leaves. I can say the bags at 5psi very noticeably firm up the rear when empty. I'd even say they ruin the ride....
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Old 12-08-2016, 03:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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My truck has a 24V CTD but no real added weight on the front (no aftermarket bumper or winch or anything), and with Thuren 2" soft ride coils my hub center to fender lip height is 26.5", and I remember the springs raising it almost 3" exactly (however Thuren's site estimates 2.75" increase for CTD 2nd gen Ram).

The stats for the Thuren springs as I measured are:

- free length = 20.75"
- wire diameter = 0.875"
- coil OD = 7.625"
- coil ID = 5.875"
- compressed length on truck = 15.875" (rough measure, might be +-/ 0.25")

I want to lower the truck maybe 1-1.5" up front via a softer spring of a similar free length to Thuren's, or a similar rate spring but a bit shorter free length.

I'm currently looking for coils that may be too soft (275-300 lb/in) that are a bit long, that I could cut 0.5-1.5 coils off of to lower the free length and thus increase spring rate, to maybe get a lower installed height on the truck. But for the coil diameter we need it's hard to find anything soft. Tons of Bronco/F150/F250 springs but they're all over an inch smaller in coil diameter.

I'm also in the process of designing Chevy 64" leaf swap brackets for the rear to soften the ride from what I currently have, which as best I can tell is the 3+1+overloads 2400lb capacity leaf pack. I'm designing around Chevy 2500 5-leaf 2.5" wide springs that are rated to 2200 lbs, and it seems like the 1500, 1500 HD, and 1500 Max Tow package all use this same leaf pack but with varying number of leafs removed (2 leafs total, 3 leafs total, etc.

Dodge rear suspensions_comparison_zpscw5hzz4n.jpg

Dodge_chevy_leafs_02_zps1z9m2ggo.jpg

Last edited by frojoe; 12-08-2016 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 12-13-2016, 04:56 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I just measured and it's 23.75" from the fender lip to the center of the hub. I also attached two better pictures of the truck. It has 37" tires on it.
Hey Silveranger93, all you had to do to achieve this look was throw a rough stuff universal radius arm kit on to move the axle forward? With the axle moved forward that much how did you manage to reassemble the sway bar?

I currently have a leveled 96 cummins 2500 that I would love to fit 37's under. I want to fill out the wheel wells and keep her close to the ground.
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Old 12-13-2016, 10:08 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Yeah, I cut the cast section off the frame. Made my own using bushings and a new bracket. moves the frame side forward a few inches. It's actually the first track bar that's lasted longer than 18 months on this truck.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Also, moving the axle that far forward how close is the track bar to the differential? any binding there?
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Old 12-15-2016, 07:43 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Also, moving the axle that far forward how close is the track bar to the differential? any binding there?
I've got not front bar on it right now. Haven't really felt the need for it too much. I think if I flipped the end link to above the axle with a real short link the stock bar would fit. I haven't felt the need to try it out though.

I also moved the track bar forward and cut off the factory frame mount. New bar clears the front diff easily. However you need to be careful with the steering and the track bar, that was my tightest clearance but it all fits.

My only tire clearance issue is at full left lock the drivers tire rubs the radius arm. No body contact anywhere, but also notice I built a front bumper for my truck and it's cut pretty far forward compared to a stock bumper. You'd have to sawzall quite a bit of the stock bumper for clearance.
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