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Old 05-07-2019, 06:36 PM   #1176 (permalink)
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Do you have Torque Pro? If you take some logs with Torque I'd imagine FTE forum could troubleshoot no problem.
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Old 05-07-2019, 06:50 PM   #1177 (permalink)
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Do you have Torque Pro? If you take some logs with Torque I'd imagine FTE forum could troubleshoot no problem.
Between Torque Pro and ForScan he should be able to see pretty much everything that the ECU can see.

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Old 05-07-2019, 06:52 PM   #1178 (permalink)
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Do you have Torque Pro? If you take some logs with Torque I'd imagine FTE forum could troubleshoot no problem.
Just Torque Lite, but I can buy it if it's worth while.

I was looking at a AE system....

I'm thinking it was egt valve. I sure hope so anyway. About to start pulling parts to delete it.

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Old 05-07-2019, 07:16 PM   #1179 (permalink)
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Just Torque Lite, but I can buy it if it's worth while.

I was looking at a AE system....

I'm thinking it was egt valve. I sure hope so anyway. About to start pulling parts to delete it.

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Torque Pro will get you a lot of additional data points. ForScan will (with the right adapter) read both OBD-II and proprietary Ford codes on both the high and medium speed databuses (ie: ABS, airbag, transmission, etc codes).

See: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...d-using-4.html for some of the points that are available.

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Old 05-08-2019, 07:11 AM   #1180 (permalink)
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I use torque pro on my 6.0. It is indispensable for troubleshooting run issues. Between that and car gauge pro every base is covered.

How does the EGR circuit work with that compound setup, bypass exhaust flow from manifold to atmospheric turbo intake?

6.0s don't have a wastegate from the factory, so definitely not necessary. Where is the wastegate in the 6.4 setup, on the atmospheric turbo? Wastegates help prevent excessively high drive pressure at high RPM, so if you're not pulling grades with your foot to the floor all the time, you may not need a wastegate, especially because you're not towing.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:20 AM   #1181 (permalink)
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I use torque pro on my 6.0. It is indispensable for troubleshooting run issues. Between that and car gauge pro every base is covered.

How does the EGR circuit work with that compound setup, bypass exhaust flow from manifold to atmospheric turbo intake?

6.0s don't have a wastegate from the factory, so definitely not necessary. Where is the wastegate in the 6.4 setup, on the atmospheric turbo? Wastegates help prevent excessively high drive pressure at high RPM, so if you're not pulling grades with your foot to the floor all the time, you may not need a wastegate, especially because you're not towing.
Sounds like five bucks well-spent then. I'll download it this afternoon.

There is no wastegate from the factory on the 6.4 either. But I think Ford uses the EGR circuit as a pseudo wastegate. It bleeds exhaust pressure directly into the intake at the engine.

The high drive pressure is what I am worried about, I am basically Towing 100% of the time. At GVWR, and huge aero drag. On the freeway, on flat ground, I rarely see less than 15 lb of boost.

There is no way to monitor Drive pressure is there? EBP sensor?



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Old 05-08-2019, 08:12 AM   #1182 (permalink)
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Sounds like five bucks well-spent then. I'll download it this afternoon.

There is no wastegate from the factory on the 6.4 either. But I think Ford uses the EGR circuit as a pseudo wastegate. It bleeds exhaust pressure directly into the intake at the engine.

The high drive pressure is what I am worried about, I am basically Towing 100% of the time. At GVWR, and huge aero drag. On the freeway, on flat ground, I rarely see less than 15 lb of boost.

There is no way to monitor Drive pressure is there? EBP sensor?
The key for the EGR in a compound setup (your 6.4) is where it bleeds exhaust from. If it bleeds from the manifold, then it's dumping "high" pressure drive exhaust, and an EGR malfunction open can cause very low boost at low RPM, also perceived as excessive lag, as it's dramatically reducing the drive pressure on the high pressure turbo, which is responsible for low RPM boost. If the EGR dumps between your high pressure turbo and atmospheric turbo, then it's probably not causing your issue IMHO.

The high pressure turbo is the one that's connected directly to the engine exhaust manifold. Based on the diagrams, the stock high pressure turbo on a 6.4 is the one that is perpendicular to the centerline of truck, with the intake facing the driver's side fender.

Excessive drive pressure is hard to achieve without lots of mods. Even when you do, all that happens is higher EGTs and diminishing power, no mechanical damage risk at stock-mild mod levels. There is an exhaust drive pressure sensor on the 6.0, but I've not tried to read it. I'm unsure if there is one on the 6.4.

Long story short, deleting the EGR does not mean you need to install a wastegate. Not a concern at all. If you're monitoring your EGT (simplest metric, although gale banks would disagree) and keeping safe temps, you'll be fine.


One last thought, you said you think you're towing all the time with the box. Not how I see it. Your gross weight is probably 10k? The 6.4 was designed as a medium duty engine, powering busses, medium trucks, etc. Towing for that engine and transmission means hooking up 20k# on a trailer and putting the hammer down up the grade on 70 from denver to aspen You're not doing that.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:24 AM   #1183 (permalink)
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The key for the EGR in a compound setup (your 6.4) is where it bleeds exhaust from. If it bleeds from the manifold, then it's dumping "high" pressure drive exhaust, and an EGR malfunction open can cause very low boost at low RPM, also perceived as excessive lag, as it's dramatically reducing the drive pressure on the high pressure turbo, which is responsible for low RPM boost. If the EGR dumps between your high pressure turbo and atmospheric turbo, then it's probably not causing your issue IMHO.

The high pressure turbo is the one that's connected directly to the engine exhaust manifold. Based on the diagrams, the stock high pressure turbo on a 6.4 is the one that is perpendicular to the centerline of truck, with the intake facing the driver's side fender.

Excessive drive pressure is hard to achieve without lots of mods. Even when you do, all that happens is higher EGTs and diminishing power, no mechanical damage risk at stock-mild mod levels. There is an exhaust drive pressure sensor on the 6.0, but I've not tried to read it. I'm unsure if there is one on the 6.4.

Long story short, deleting the EGR does not mean you need to install a wastegate. Not a concern at all. If you're monitoring your EGT (simplest metric, although gale banks would disagree) and keeping safe temps, you'll be fine.


One last thought, you said you think you're towing all the time with the box. Not how I see it. Your gross weight is probably 10k? The 6.4 was designed as a medium duty engine, powering busses, medium trucks, etc. Towing for that engine and transmission means hooking up 20k# on a trailer and putting the hammer down up the grade on 70 from denver to aspen You're not doing that.
Yes it bleeds exhaust from the manifold turbo side and dumps it into the intake with the charge air post intercooler (after both turbos). So open would bleed exhaust pressure at low rpm's (which I am hoping is my issue!)

Now on the weight/duty. I'm 14,240lbs ish, and like I said big aero. Boost is generally in the 20psi range cruising, and I try to keep it under 40psi on passes etc. EGT's I try to keep under 1150. Coolant sits 198-200 crusing on flat, and up to 220 on passes etc. Oil temp is generally about 10 degrees hotter.

OK I wont worry about wastegate now, easy to add later. Bolts to where the EGR cooler is coming off. I can see it being nice to be able to keep boost pressures in check tho. I can hit 50psi If I hammer down..... Dont want to lift heads!
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:06 AM   #1184 (permalink)
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That's a lot heavier than I expected. My F550 crew cab long bed with a steel flat bed is only 9000#. That's a lot of camper!

I'd definitely do your research on the 6.4 wastegate EGR replacement. My 6.0 stock turbo cannot hit 40psi, let alone 50psi, even with 155cc injectors and an atlas 80 FICM, so you've got a different animal there. I put studs in my engine when I had it apart two years ago.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:17 AM   #1185 (permalink)
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That's a lot heavier than I expected. My F550 crew cab long bed with a steel flat bed is only 9000#. That's a lot of camper!

I'd definitely do your research on the 6.4 wastegate EGR replacement. My 6.0 stock turbo cannot hit 40psi, let alone 50psi, even with 155cc injectors and an atlas 80 FICM, so you've got a different animal there. I put studs in my engine when I had it apart two years ago.
Yes it is.... Thats two 100lb dogs, three people, full water tank and packed for a week.

I get a lot of people saying its not needed, and a few saying it is..... I can see it being a saftey thing, I am not sure if Ford uses the EGR as a pseudo wastegate, but it would not surprise me. Either way it would bolt on to the EGR location, easy to add later.... Looks like most people use a 40mm, and I can make a dump tube for it.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:57 PM   #1186 (permalink)
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All EGR related parts are out.

Parts pile/yard is a mess..... Delete parts will be on Friday. Install next week!



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Old 05-10-2019, 10:41 AM   #1187 (permalink)
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How bad was the EGR coolers, valve etc. with carbon?
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:34 AM   #1188 (permalink)
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How bad was the EGR coolers, valve etc. with carbon?
Coolers didn't look bad at all, guessing they were replaced with the engine ~25-30k miles ago.

Could not get the EGR valve out of the intake elbow! But there was a pretty good buildup in the intake tract and elbow. Enough I broke out the shop vac and vacuumed out as much as I could.

New intake elbow and block off plates!


Spent a few minutes with the die grinder cleaning up the crappy casting marks in the elbow. Probably good for .001 HP



Also got a dedicated truck saw. No stink!
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:19 AM   #1189 (permalink)
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Thats a great idea for an RV. The saw I mean.
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:24 AM   #1190 (permalink)
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Thats a great idea for an RV. The saw I mean.
Yeah I have a gas one, but hate to leave it in the truck as it stinks when it gets hot, with elevation changes etc. I was stopped two weeks back due to logs..... I want to go finish that road Looked like no one had been up it yet this year.
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Old 05-13-2019, 03:38 PM   #1191 (permalink)
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do you have any other greenworks stuff?

I love my lawnmower.
the first weed eater was a pile, but the second one they sent me had undergone some redesign on the parts that sucked and has been solid.
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Old 05-13-2019, 03:39 PM   #1192 (permalink)
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do you have any other greenworks stuff?

I love my lawnmower.
the first weed eater was a pile, but the second one they sent me had undergone some redesign on the parts that sucked and has been solid.
Nope, just the saw

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Old 05-13-2019, 03:52 PM   #1193 (permalink)
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I went with the Ryobi 40v chainsaw, I wanted the Milwauke with the 12ah battery but cheaped out and got the little step brother Ryobi. The 1.5Ah battery is too small but the saw has not disappointed.
It's going to be awesome for the RV and the SXS when we get to the mountains.'

I can't wait to hear how the EGR vasectomy treats you, will you need new tunes?
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:22 AM   #1194 (permalink)
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I went with the Ryobi 40v chainsaw, I wanted the Milwauke with the 12ah battery but cheaped out and got the little step brother Ryobi. The 1.5Ah battery is too small but the saw has not disappointed.
It's going to be awesome for the RV and the SXS when we get to the mountains.'

I can't wait to hear how the EGR vasectomy treats you, will you need new tunes?
Yeah This battery is not huge, but I can get knock off Chinese ones for $50 if I end up wanting a backup. Worst case scenario, throw battery on charger, grab beer, go for walk. Come back and finish

I hope I dont need a new tune.... The one I have is supposed to command EGR closed. I may have to plug the valve in and zip it it out of the way somewhere.

Its all back together! Just need to fill the coolant, check for leaks and go for a drive....

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Old 05-14-2019, 08:43 PM   #1195 (permalink)
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Test drive is a success! Drives great again!

Need to find the PIDs for the egt sensors. Apparently Torque doesn't know that one.

EBP (drive?) pressures are about 20-25 psi higher than boost. 17 ish at idle.

Need to figure out logging.....

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Old 05-15-2019, 03:29 AM   #1196 (permalink)
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Test drive is a success! Drives great again!

Need to find the PIDs for the egt sensors. Apparently Torque doesn't know that one.

EBP (drive?) pressures are about 20-25 psi higher than boost. 17 ish at idle.

Need to figure out logging.....

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Starting Logging: From the "gauges" live data screen, click on the gear and "Start Logging"
Setting up Logging: From the "Home Screen" click on the gear and "Data Logging and Upload" then "Select what to log"

EGTs: Try: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...nded-pids.html (for the 6.7L, may work for yours) or: https://www.thedieselstop.com/forums...5/#post3427705 (for the 6.4L).

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Old 05-15-2019, 10:27 AM   #1197 (permalink)
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Starting Logging: From the "gauges" live data screen, click on the gear and "Start Logging"
Setting up Logging: From the "Home Screen" click on the gear and "Data Logging and Upload" then "Select what to log"

EGTs: Try: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...nded-pids.html (for the 6.7L, may work for yours) or: https://www.thedieselstop.com/forums...5/#post3427705 (for the 6.4L).

Aaron Z
Yeah I hit log, but I guess I had not set up which PID's to log.... Or the upload info..... Its done now!

Thanks for the links, I added the pre and post turbo EGT's to mine. We will see if they work. Going to take the truck for a freeway run today.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:00 AM   #1198 (permalink)
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Took the truck for a longer highway drive. Its back to being great again!

Its been a long time since I did Excel..... But Logs: EBP vs RPM is Grey, EGT (well EGT/100 as it throws the values way huge vs everything else anyway) vs RPM is Orange, and Boost is Blue.



And a snippet of the data if thats more helpful, roll from a stop. Accelerator Position (A), EGT (B), Boost (D), EBP (E) and RPM (F) as well as VGT because its interesting.

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Old 05-16-2019, 09:21 AM   #1199 (permalink)
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Yeah This battery is not huge, but I can get knock off Chinese ones for $50 if I end up wanting a backup. Worst case scenario, throw battery on charger, grab beer, go for walk. Come back and finish

]
you'll find that the greenworks temp sensor in the battery is very aggressive.
You can't take the batery out and just throw it on the charger, it won't charge if you've been using it heavy. Takes 20 minutes for the internal pack temp to cool down before it will start charging, and then it takes a while to charge them.


It's obvious that the greenworks battery management is setup to prolong battery life, not for maximum performance.
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:29 AM   #1200 (permalink)
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you'll find that the greenworks temp sensor in the battery is very aggressive.
You can't take the batery out and just throw it on the charger, it won't charge if you've been using it heavy. Takes 20 minutes for the internal pack temp to cool down before it will start charging, and then it takes a while to charge them.


It's obvious that the greenworks battery management is setup to prolong battery life, not for maximum performance.
Good to know, I may just grab a second battery.
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