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Old 02-10-2020, 07:55 AM   #1651 (permalink)
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Alright smart people...... Help me out here.

Installed batteries, charger etc. Set the charge profile to what the battery mfg speed. 14.7 bulk, and I don't remember float... According to the meter it was full, taking in no more Power(plugged in for a couple days).

We took it out this weekend, and by this morning batteries were dipping to 12.0 under load.... Shunt showed 95ah drawn out, and ~87% left (set at 500ah).

Battery temp was 39.8F (on the closet ones, the outer wall may be a little colder, but there is an air gap there)

WTF is going on??

And otherwise the weekend was pretty damn decent.





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Old 02-10-2020, 08:07 AM   #1652 (permalink)
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Yes I think its 48 internal, and more with SD, cant use too large and SD as it must be FAT32, not exFAt32.
you can format up to 128gb with fat32 if you do it right.

I have a 128gb flah drive in my 2008 bmw that only understands fat32.


battery draw things is odd.
have you put an actual meter on the batteries to make sure the electronics aren't fucky?

still, depending on current draw, 12v may be above 50% charge.
https://www.scubaengineer.com/docume...ing_graphs.pdf
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:22 AM   #1653 (permalink)
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I will throw my 2 cents now that you have decided, bought and installed batteries.

There is no question (IMO) Lithium is worth the effort and $$ especially for someone who uses his stuff un-plugged as much as you do.

Significantly more "available" amp hour compared to AGM (LIPO goes 80% DOD and AGM is only 50% DOD) with your 500AHs that is 150AH more, this "extra" capacity in and of itself is more than capable to "heat" themselves when needed AND still have more power available.
Significant reduction in weight
Significant increase in duty cycles

Again only worth 2 cents, carry on.
I do like the Victron stuff!
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:38 AM   #1654 (permalink)
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you can format up to 128gb with fat32 if you do it right.

I have a 128gb flah drive in my 2008 bmw that only understands fat32.


battery draw things is odd.
have you put an actual meter on the batteries to make sure the electronics aren't fucky?

still, depending on current draw, 12v may be above 50% charge.
https://www.scubaengineer.com/docume...ing_graphs.pdf
I have a couple of SD's I can play with. It seems the log files are pretty small.

I did get the wifi dongle, and got it uploading to the VRM portal.

I will say though, for Victron, the color control phone/remote use SUCKS. Really bad. At least compared to the BT hookup for the BMV and solar (which I can use for the BMV now as it needs to talk to the color control)


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I will throw my 2 cents now that you have decided, bought and installed batteries.

There is no question (IMO) Lithium is worth the effort and $$ especially for someone who uses his stuff un-plugged as much as you do.

Significantly more "available" amp hour compared to AGM (LIPO goes 80% DOD and AGM is only 50% DOD) with your 500AHs that is 150AH more, this "extra" capacity in and of itself is more than capable to "heat" themselves when needed AND still have more power available.
Significant reduction in weight
Significant increase in duty cycles

Again only worth 2 cents, carry on.
I do like the Victron stuff!
I agree the Litium is great, but I am not quite ready to jump on that bandwagon yet. I have a feeling it will get better.

I would also have to redo everything to go lithium. Heated battery box, dedicated DC-DC charger, BMS, reconfigure the space fr the batteries etc.

The other thing with lithium, they claim long life, high duty cycles etc, but there have not really been any long term tests done. The tech just hasn't been widely in use long enough yet to have good data.
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:14 AM   #1655 (permalink)
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I agree the Litium is great, but I am not quite ready to jump on that bandwagon yet. I have a feeling it will get better.

I would also have to redo everything to go lithium. Heated battery box, dedicated DC-DC charger, BMS, reconfigure the space fr the batteries etc.

The other thing with lithium, they claim long life, high duty cycles etc, but there have not really been any long term tests done. The tech just hasn't been widely in use long enough yet to have good data.
I agree on the lack of "proof" of duty cycle but I also really like they will take a charge at high rate and you can stop and start charge cycles. Get a standalone 200amp alternator ran through a balmar multi stage regulator with the lifePo4 program then when you need it just fire up the truck for a bit and give them a zap on top of solar and or inverter charger.

Now I am rambling and trying to justify it for myself.

Anyway I do like the 6 volt series as well, the other obstacle I had was in a slide in camper the battery compartment is out at the perimeter wall above the bed rail so support for 4-500AH of AGM was a bit lacking.

On another note is your box composite panel construction?
Looking at next rig to be a bit bigger and the composite boxes look very interesting. Maybe a freightliner M2 cummins L9 4x4 with a 20' box and a slide or two! A guy can always dream.

Keep the adventures with your family and the pics coming!
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:51 AM   #1656 (permalink)
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I agree on the lack of "proof" of duty cycle but I also really like they will take a charge at high rate and you can stop and start charge cycles. Get a standalone 200amp alternator ran through a balmar multi stage regulator with the lifePo4 program then when you need it just fire up the truck for a bit and give them a zap on top of solar and or inverter charger.

Now I am rambling and trying to justify it for myself.

Anyway I do like the 6 volt series as well, the other obstacle I had was in a slide in camper the battery compartment is out at the perimeter wall above the bed rail so support for 4-500AH of AGM was a bit lacking.

On another note is your box composite panel construction?
Looking at next rig to be a bit bigger and the composite boxes look very interesting. Maybe a freightliner M2 cummins L9 4x4 with a 20' box and a slide or two! A guy can always dream.

Keep the adventures with your family and the pics coming!
My box is all aluminum. 1/8" skin with ribs every 12"
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:17 PM   #1657 (permalink)
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If I'm understanding correctly, you set the charging parameters for your battery specs. Does your charger have an option to program it for the battery profile and temperature compensation?

For our bus, I've bought Midnite Solar KID chargers, Battle Born batteries, and Schneider Conext 4024. I think I remember reading that the inverter/charger controller has a screen tab and the charge controllers have an option for the battery profile so that it knows exactly the type, DOD, high-low voltage specs, et. to measure and display the battery bank conditions.

I did read through a bunch of the Victron manuals a couple years ago. Imagine their equipment has the same or better options. Brain is pretty fuzzy today so I could be blowing smoke. You should be able to make a quick selection of battery type and find a settings tab or something to refine the specs.
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Old 02-10-2020, 04:04 PM   #1658 (permalink)
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Alright smart people...... Help me out here.

Installed batteries, charger etc. Set the charge profile to what the battery mfg speed. 14.7 bulk, and I don't remember float... According to the meter it was full, taking in no more Power(plugged in for a couple days).

We took it out this weekend, and by this morning batteries were dipping to 12.0 under load.... Shunt showed 95ah drawn out, and ~87% left (set at 500ah).

Battery temp was 39.8F (on the closet ones, the outer wall may be a little colder, but there is an air gap there)

WTF is going on??

And otherwise the weekend was pretty damn decent.

There are a couple of issues you have working against you.

First, the voltage reading for SOC should be resting, little to no current draw for 30? minutes.

Secondly the 39F battery temp is a problem, because you are already dropping to 87% capacity. You don't get to use the 50% from the 87% starting point because you can't go lower than the 50% SOC voltage...

Did you enter the temperature compensation settings for the batteries? At those cell temps you should have been up over 15v in bulk and floating over 14.




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Old 02-10-2020, 04:08 PM   #1659 (permalink)
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I will throw my 2 cents now that you have decided, bought and installed batteries.

There is no question (IMO) Lithium is worth the effort and $$ especially for someone who uses his stuff un-plugged as much as you do.

Significantly more "available" amp hour compared to AGM (LIPO goes 80% DOD and AGM is only 50% DOD) with your 500AHs that is 150AH more, this "extra" capacity in and of itself is more than capable to "heat" themselves when needed AND still have more power available.
Significant reduction in weight
Significant increase in duty cycles

Again only worth 2 cents, carry on.
I do like the Victron stuff!
Have you seen any info on battery warming current consumption.
I was thinking if the batteries are in a 2" XPS insulated box, how much current would it take to keep them warm?

Duct in some hot air off the webasto, or the ideal run some hyronic grid under them would be easy.
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Old 02-10-2020, 04:26 PM   #1660 (permalink)
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If I'm understanding correctly, you set the charging parameters for your battery specs. Does your charger have an option to program it for the battery profile and temperature compensation?



For our bus, I've bought Midnite Solar KID chargers, Battle Born batteries, and Schneider Conext 4024. I think I remember reading that the inverter/charger controller has a screen tab and the charge controllers have an option for the battery profile so that it knows exactly the type, DOD, high-low voltage specs, et. to measure and display the battery bank conditions.



I did read through a bunch of the Victron manuals a couple years ago. Imagine their equipment has the same or better options. Brain is pretty fuzzy today so I could be blowing smoke. You should be able to make a quick selection of battery type and find a settings tab or something to refine the specs.
Yes charger is all setup for the batteries, to the mfg charging spec.


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There are a couple of issues you have working against you.



First, the voltage reading for SOC should be resting, little to no current draw for 30? minutes.



Secondly the 39F battery temp is a problem, because you are already dropping to 87% capacity. You don't get to use the 50% from the 87% starting point because you can't go lower than the 50% SOC voltage...



Did you enter the temperature compensation settings for the batteries? At those cell temps you should have been up over 15v in bulk and floating over 14.









Was 12.2 ish no draw.

No SOC is not temp corrected. I may be able to get the temp probé to talk to the bmv. Researching....

No charging was done at those Temps. And I will take a look, as they were 9c (43 ish) at home, but most charging was done on the drive.

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Old 02-10-2020, 04:27 PM   #1661 (permalink)
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Have you seen any info on battery warming current consumption.

I was thinking if the batteries are in a 2" XPS insulated box, how much current would it take to keep them warm?



Duct in some hot air off the webasto, or the ideal run some hyronic grid under them would be easy.
I can't get heat to them easily.... Unless it's a pad heater. Which I really don't want to do.

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Old 02-10-2020, 05:40 PM   #1662 (permalink)
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Have you seen any info on battery warming current consumption.
I was thinking if the batteries are in a 2" XPS insulated box, how much current would it take to keep them warm?

Duct in some hot air off the webasto, or the ideal run some hyronic grid under them would be easy.
I think insulating and trying if possible to heat the battery storage is the way to go as opposed to elec heat for the most part.

In my current slide in camper, I pulled the battery box and had just enough room to wrap it with 1" urethane rigid insulation and since venting is not an issue I put a small transfer grill from inside to the batteries.

I live in northern ca so dont typically need to worry when it is plugged in at home.

My next plan is to have the batteries located entirely inside the conditioned space under a sofa with circulating heat.

Dynamax has just released an new super C (Isata-5 28SS) with lithium drop ins and builtin heaters, I think relion or battle born was the manuf.

Java is right though, what we think is great today in regards to lithium will be old school in the next few years.
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Old 02-10-2020, 05:55 PM   #1663 (permalink)
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I think insulating and trying if possible to heat the battery storage is the way to go as opposed to elec heat for the most part.



In my current slide in camper, I pulled the battery box and had just enough room to wrap it with 1" urethane rigid insulation and since venting is not an issue I put a small transfer grill from inside to the batteries.



I live in northern ca so dont typically need to worry when it is plugged in at home.



My next plan is to have the batteries located entirely inside the conditioned space under a sofa with circulating heat.



Dynamax has just released an new super C (Isata-5 28SS) with lithium drop ins and builtin heaters, I think relion or battle born was the manuf.



Java is right though, what we think is great today in regards to lithium will be old school in the next few years.
They are on 1" of xps on the floor. That's the least insulated area.

A grill to living area could be done, but without a fan I'm not sure it would do much.

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Old 02-10-2020, 06:11 PM   #1664 (permalink)
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Dynamax has just released an new super C (Isata-5 28SS) with lithium drop ins and builtin heaters, I think relion or battle born was the manuf.

Java is right though, what we think is great today in regards to lithium will be old school in the next few years.
A few weeks ago I think there was a short mention of Battle Born coming out with batteries that have built-in heaters. Might have been Will Prowse. That'd be more efficient than trying to push heat through the plastic cases.

And ditto. Battery tech is getting fresher every day. Maybe even every minute.
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Old 02-11-2020, 02:43 PM   #1665 (permalink)
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Truck is connected to the interwebs..... Still no clue on the battery issues.....

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Old 02-11-2020, 04:28 PM   #1666 (permalink)
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well at least that gets you the discharge curve.
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Old 02-11-2020, 06:03 PM   #1667 (permalink)
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well at least that gets you the discharge curve.
Yeah sorta.

It doesn't appear to be charging at high enough voltage for the temp, batteries are at 9c....




Edit : I guess it did bump a bit higher.



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Old 02-12-2020, 03:40 PM   #1668 (permalink)
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Yeah sorta.

It doesn't appear to be charging at high enough voltage for the temp, batteries are at 9c....


Per the full river manual I would agree. At 10C bulk and absorb should be both over 15v and float over 14v.

Anyway to pre-heat that compartment at home? Even just for testing, basically "pretend camping" so you can monitor it from work during the week?

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Old 02-18-2020, 09:36 AM   #1669 (permalink)
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How every good evening starts?



Quiet little breakfast spot.



And a couple little upgrades. Noticed my fire extinguisher was in the red last week. Been eyeballing these for awhile.


And did one of these. I like it so far. My only complaint is its plastic. I got a different model originally, but it didn't cover the hole in the door.... But it was all metal.
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Old 02-20-2020, 05:20 AM   #1670 (permalink)
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The guys on the Heartland RV forum really like those locks, the company seems very repeatable as well. They have a vendor forum and supply parts when posible for user repairs.

Any battery news?
Just a thought but if the solar charger is not making any power you might want to disconnect it from the battery as it will have a small parasitic draw.
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Old 02-20-2020, 06:53 AM   #1671 (permalink)
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The guys on the Heartland RV forum really like those locks, the company seems very repeatable as well. They have a vendor forum and supply parts when posible for user repairs.

Any battery news?
Just a thought but if the solar charger is not making any power you might want to disconnect it from the battery as it will have a small parasitic draw.
That's good to hear. I did some looking into them and they did seem well regarded.

No battery news..... Off grid one night and burned 7ah according to the gauge. Just rolled in late and went to bed.

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Old 02-20-2020, 06:59 AM   #1672 (permalink)
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I'd be willing to bet that the physical bypass lock on that handle is easy to pick and that a novice could do it in less than 30 seconds with a jiggler.

they are all trash.

as always, don't expect locks to keep anyone out, just keeping honest people honest as they say.
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:03 AM   #1673 (permalink)
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I'd be willing to bet that the physical bypass lock on that handle is easy to pick and that a novice could do it in less than 30 seconds with a jiggler.

they are all trash.

as always, don't expect locks to keep anyone out, just keeping honest people honest as they say.
I have no doubts about that.... But every RV lock in the universe is that way (and most house deadbolts etc too). The 100lb German Shepard that's usually in the truck helps though.... Motion lights in the driveway and I can hear it from my bedroom, but as always keeping honest people honest....
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:44 AM   #1674 (permalink)
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Yeah locks are locks, no news there. Maybe he was suggesting to not worry about the plastic lock assembly on a cardboard house (that's what I call my RV).

The keyless ability sounds awesome, more than once a family member has been locked out of my RV during trips. It usually makes them extra bitchy after waiting hours to get it unlocked LOL.

Several times around black Friday I have almost bought one of these but I always flake out.
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:47 AM   #1675 (permalink)
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Yeah locks are locks, no news there. Maybe he was suggesting to not worry about the plastic lock assembly on a cardboard house (that's what I call my RV).

The keyless ability sounds awesome, more than once a family member has been locked out of my RV during trips. It usually makes them extra bitchy after waiting hours to get it unlocked LOL.

Several times around black Friday I have almost bought one of these but I always flake out.
yes.

the plastic body is not the weakest or fastest way to defeat that lock.
the bypass key lock is.
it's probably a pretty shitty wafer lock like every other RV lock.
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