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Old 10-26-2017, 02:31 PM   #26 (permalink)
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that being said, i ordered a DD organic valair ($1,395) for my truck. hurts paying that much but i'd rather do it once or at least know i wont need to do it again for a long time.
My buddy tried that philosophy.... swapping his used $$$$ clutch into another stock-hp 2ndgen. He broke the input shaft in about a year. A little clutch slip wrecks less stuff.
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:37 PM   #27 (permalink)
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My buddy tried that philosophy.... swapping his used $$$$ clutch into another stock-hp 2ndgen. He broke the input shaft in about a year. A little clutch slip wrecks less stuff.
what type of clutch? organic? ceramic?

i got a DD organic which is NOT made for aggressive driving. curious how he broke and input shaft on a stock 2nd gen.

also, im not hunting for power on my truck. just want something that will hold it on a delete tune since the stock clutch is garbage.

Last edited by chknkatsu; 10-26-2017 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:51 PM   #28 (permalink)
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what type of clutch? organic? ceramic?

i got a DD organic which is NOT made for aggressive driving. curious how he broke and input shaft on a stock 2nd gen.

also, im not hunting for power on my truck. just want something that will hold it on a delete tune since the stock clutch is garbage.
Ceramic. 35" tires. Detroit locker. Don't know what he was doing... but what can you do with 160hp?

If we're talking tuners.... other buddy is running a dual-disc in his 3rdgen with 600rwhp. So far so good.
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:52 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Ceramic. 35" tires. Detroit locker. Don't know what he was doing... but what can you do with 160hp?

If we're talking tuners.... other buddy is running a dual-disc in his 3rdgen with 600rwhp. So far so good.
its all about the torque.

35s and a locker with ceramic clutch. somethings got to give...



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Old 10-26-2017, 03:23 PM   #30 (permalink)
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If you're still on the stock turbo, you're not even out of the 300's yet on HP, regardless of fueling...especially with a 215 pump and only 16 degrees. But that's just my opinion based on watching dyno events.
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Old 10-26-2017, 03:40 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I'm thinking to give something like this one a try along with input shaft upgrade.

More Information for AMS AUTOMOTIVE 05101SR300
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:57 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Ceramic. 35" tires. Detroit locker. Don't know what he was doing... but what can you do with 160hp?
.
torque breaks parts
200lbs of rotating mass means that your instantaneous torque isn't your engine's max, but instead the max your clutch will hold, if your clutch is good for a couple thousand, your driveline past it better be good for it too.
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Old 10-26-2017, 06:05 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Looks pretty chinesey
get an unsprung disc if you can, the sprung ones tend to destroy themselves in a hurry with ceramic
esp. if you're the type to try and gently slip your clutch into engagement. Makes for some interesting banging once it's worn into full face contact, the banging can bottom out the spring travel in the hub and mangle the stop rivets over time. Proper ones got enough spring for the torque rating of the lining, but that's rarely the case in aftermarket stuff.
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Old 10-27-2017, 06:21 AM   #34 (permalink)
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I'm thinking to give something like this one a try along with input shaft upgrade.

More Information for AMS AUTOMOTIVE 05101SR300
Ceramic button clutches "can" hold pretty decent, but they are grabby as hell on takeoff. I'd honestly hate to see an unsprung ceramic button disc...
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Old 10-27-2017, 01:04 PM   #35 (permalink)
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torque breaks parts
200lbs of rotating mass means that your instantaneous torque isn't your engine's max, but instead the max your clutch will hold, if your clutch is good for a couple thousand, your driveline past it better be good for it too.
Yes - obviously the logic behind the failure.

Goes to show a cheap grabby clutch isn't a cure-all.

Dual-disc is what more of the 300+ hp guys in my circle are running without failure. But it does increase the rotating mass, and makes shifting a little slower.
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Old 10-27-2017, 05:31 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Ceramic button clutches "can" hold pretty decent, but they are grabby as hell on takeoff. I'd honestly hate to see an unsprung ceramic button disc...
you get used to it pretty quick

sprung/unsprung can't really be felt from the driver's seat, the marcel spring is what makes smooth engagement, not the shock damping springs. Marcel spring can't really be done on ceramic

oh and a grabby clutch will make you want tight motor mounts pretty quick
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Old 12-08-2018, 03:35 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Found this and figured I'll share... FWIW

https://media.repxpert.de/media/loka...008.1544307705
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Old 10-05-2019, 01:03 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I contacted Schaeffler tech support and they said the LuK# 05-181 clutch kit is rated to hold around 740 ftēlbs
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Old 10-05-2019, 01:15 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I threw in some performance goodies on my truck and I am plagued with slipping clutch whenever I drop the hammer.

My truck is 97 Ram 2500 with the NV4500 but this topic can be applied to other years as well (as far as up to ~2012, apparently they didn't change the clutch system on them very much for at least two decades!)

I honestly don't want to pay over $1,000 for performance clutch kit from either South Bend or Valair. That's outraged considering how much stock replacement clutch sell for, imho anyway. From what I've read online their clutch components have "LuK" on them.

Rockauto sell stock replacement clutch kits for ~$120-$300.

Also Rockauto list a "Heavy Duty" LuK clutch kit; 13inch dia disc WITH starter spacer, longer starter bolts, new flywheel, etc. ~$400 everything needed for a clutch job! More Information for LUK 05181

I've been trying to find out what's difference between LuK's clutch kits. I'll love to find out if there's a way to have a towing clutch set up that will hold up to my new found power on a budget.

Did anyone have success with a sub $500 clutch set up with turned up diesel power? 400-500 hp in general
You will end up buying 2 clutches, one that you will burn up fast, then a South Bend if you try to be cheap about this. $1k isnít that much if it works.
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Old 10-05-2019, 02:08 PM   #40 (permalink)
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You will end up buying 2 clutches, one that you will burn up fast, then a South Bend if you try to be cheap about this. $1k isnít that much if it works.
The stock, unidentified clutch set I reuse when I did the NV4500 is still holding fine under normal use for the last 5 years. The truck dynoíd 400/1000 with the AFC LIVE switched to full fueling. The clutch will not slip when not switched to full fueling on the road. FWIW

I bought my 05-181 clutch kit for like $350 and because my truck isnít a race car or sled puller. Iíll detune accordingly since I finally got a number on torque rating of this clutch kit.

47RE will go back in before Iíll consider south bend or valair.... Tbh.
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Old 10-05-2019, 05:23 PM   #41 (permalink)
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What do you have against valair or southbend
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Old 10-05-2019, 06:23 PM   #42 (permalink)
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What do you have against valair or southbend
Too much $$$$ for some clutch kit just to move the weak link to transmission. These Weak links have no real fix of any kind.

My Auto trans was much more fun to drive and outperform the nv4500 I’m running now.

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Old 10-05-2019, 06:34 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Well my southbend 3250dd clutch sliped in 5th after lugging the motor a little, so after 70k miles i will not be putting another back in. Most likely getting a valair after many, many , many issues with sb over the years. There is no way a stock clutch would hold up on mine.
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Old 10-05-2019, 06:42 PM   #44 (permalink)
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There is no way a stock clutch would hold up on mine.
A 'stock' clutch for a 2ndgen is bottom of the barrel. A stock 1stgen clutch is bigger and better. Stock 6 speed clutches are better again.

I still have a stock upgrade ahead of me if I want.
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Old 10-06-2019, 07:42 AM   #45 (permalink)
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So.. what's the PBB recommended way to turn up timing?
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:11 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Well my southbend 3250dd clutch sliped in 5th after lugging the motor a little, so after 70k miles i will not be putting another back in. Most likely getting a valair after many, many , many issues with sb over the years. There is no way a stock clutch would hold up on mine.
I finally bought the dual disk organic from valair for my rig. Hope to get it installed in the next few weeks.

Super easy to work with them so far, but I haven't got to installation quite yet.
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