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Old 03-12-2019, 11:50 AM   #51 (permalink)
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If EGTs are 1000-1100 AFTER the turbo it is an air ussue not a fuel issue. Adding a larger pump will just increase temperatures across the board. More boost wont lower exhaust temps, more CFM will. No reason to be running over 25-30psi towing IMO.

If you were to go 12mm I would maybe start looking at S464 or S466 with the larger turbine wheel. (83mm I think) These bigger motors need to really breathe on the turbine side to be happy. I would give up some compressor inducer size for a larger turbine exducer. (K31 vs S466, etc)

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Old 03-12-2019, 12:14 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Catch 22 backwoods, should've been more clear, yes he needs more air, but doubt he'll be able to push more air with the pump on it. Also timing, stock these things are in the 18-19 range, and a bump to 21-22 I found on mine made a difference on the egt's by about 100*

Looking at the turbo maps on the s466 look like it'll be laggy on the low end, the k31 should be a little better and still have enough up top for decent boost at high Rpms without choking out as you mention, I'll report back once it's up and going.
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:23 PM   #53 (permalink)
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18-19 degrees timing is pretty good for a tow rig, adding more USUALLY increases EGTs from my experience. Agreed though, finding the right balance is pretty tough. In my findings you kind of hit a wall between cooling/power/lag/egts and have to find somewhere in the middle. Just went back and read you have a 10mm pump. Definitely go 12mm, for some reason I thought you had an 11mm which is a different story.

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Old 03-12-2019, 04:01 PM   #54 (permalink)
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You should chat with tractor pullers, dt's can handle more power then any Cummins plenty stout. Blowing head gaskets or melting pistons will happen before you drag a bottom end. Tractor pullers are pushing 4 digit numbers without going into the bottom end. Biggest problem is keeping egts down.

For the weight questions, there trucks with 60k + lb ratings with these motors.
I live where tractor pulling was invented.
I know what a DT is capable of.
and pushing 1000HP through one for 60 seconds is a fuck ton different than pulling a grade for 15 minutes losing speed.
when you pop one at the track a tractor comes over and drags you back to your trailer.
it doesn't leave you stranded on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck that costs $500 an hour.

running a MDT motor at "need to watch it" levels of power kind of defeats the purpose of having a MDT.
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Old 03-12-2019, 06:03 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Catch 22 backwoods, should've been more clear, yes he needs more air, but doubt he'll be able to push more air with the pump on it. Also timing, stock these things are in the 18-19 range, and a bump to 21-22 I found on mine made a difference on the egt's by about 100*
careful on the timing, run too much and you can't let any idiot drive it
all you need is one supertrucker thinking he'll shift below 2k rpm lugging it as though it's got an electronic governor to push the head gasket out

also, less timing will wake up the turbo quicker
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:11 PM   #56 (permalink)
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The DT’s seem to take/spec a fair bit of timing compared to other similar engines. I have seen lots of these engines in trucks with 18-20 deg stock. The last true IH tractor engines with 466’s and the MW pump called for 22-24 deg stock. But these pumps were obviously at stock settings a defuel a lot at lower rpm as was previously mentioned.

That specific engine was in a IH 5488 tractor, water to air cooler and about 230 Eng Hp (200ish pto). Those tractors ran thousands of hours without head issues.

IH used to spec things on the aggressive side though. The operators manual for 86 series tractors with this engine said to “not operate the engine above 1420degF egt levels”. Conventional wisdom and general common sense would call that a bad idea to routinely run in the mid-1300F range.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:16 PM   #57 (permalink)
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From what I can see, that kinda looks like a DT360, which may explain the lower power results.
When shopping for a Ppump, dont get one from a 466. Those spin the opposite direction as the DT360/466C. Get one from a Dodge.
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Old 03-16-2019, 03:24 PM   #58 (permalink)
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From what I can see, that kinda looks like a DT360, which may explain the lower power results.
When shopping for a Ppump, dont get one from a 466. Those spin the opposite direction as the DT360/466C. Get one from a Dodge.
Yeah, it seems like you see a lot more motor through the accessories on the DR408/466
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Old 03-16-2019, 03:51 PM   #59 (permalink)
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On the middle picture, it looks like a 360's valve cover. The peaks are pointing up. On the 466, they are like gutters, pointing down.
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Old 03-17-2019, 11:37 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Please do not focus on the EGT's. I am not an expert but I am confident the turbo moves enough air and the engine simply runs out of fuel. Big hills, long pulls no matter the EGT's do not exceed 900-950 for 99% of the time. It has flirted with 1000F and hit 1100 close under very specific conditions. High ambient temps and when traffic slowed too low of a ground speed to hold OD and I should have downshifted.
I was not planning on swapping a Ppump onto my engine, but swap the entire engine to the ppump.
Pretty sure it is a DT466, looks the same as my other DT466 and VIN and lineset all call both DT466


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Old 03-17-2019, 11:48 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Not sure how I screwed up the picture resizing I will try to fix.

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Old 03-17-2019, 03:56 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Also it appears that the engine timing is actually set to 10*, so while I locate parts for a P-pump I guess I should adjust the timing to 15*-17*.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:33 PM   #63 (permalink)
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shit, that may be the only thing wrong with your current deal.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:29 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Also it appears that the engine timing is actually set to 10*, so while I locate parts for a P-pump I guess I should adjust the timing to 15*-17*.
I have a P pump on my DT408 truck I am parting out.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:40 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Please do not focus on the EGT's. I am not an expert but I am confident the turbo moves enough air and the engine simply runs out of fuel. Big hills, long pulls no matter the EGT's do not exceed 900-950 for 99% of the time. It has flirted with 1000F and hit 1100 close under very specific conditions. High ambient temps and when traffic slowed too low of a ground speed to hold OD and I should have downshifted.
I was planning on swapping a Ppump onto my engine, but swap the entire engine to the ppump.
Pretty sure it is a DT466, looks the same as my other DT466 and VIN and lineset all call both DT466

EGTs will become more critical to maintaining coolant temps when you raise the power levels. Thats where a probe in the manifold is more accurate. I battled cooling in my F700. Would run 185-190 most of the time but would climb to 240 on big climbs in 70 degree weather. That was on top of cooling a giant automatic transmission. You are hitting those temps with a manual. Right now it has to be 100f for you to hit those temps. Add another 50hp and it might start getting that hot in 70f weather. When you start pushing 350hp or so these MDT motors are hot messes. Getting good power to pull grades is easy, keeping it all usable is harder. I was grossing around 26k at the time and could pull some massive grades without losing speed and could still manage 45-50mph in the mountains. All other gauge readings aside, coolant temp was the hardest to maintain and I blame EGTs. An extra 150-250 degrees can change coolant temps drastically on long pulls.

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Old 03-18-2019, 05:59 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I can’t see from the pictures, but does your truck have a 1/2 rad and 1/2 intercooler? The coolant rad and the air-to-air are mounted side by side in the radiator frame, meaning your engine water rad is about 1/2 the size is could/should be. IH did that through the 90’s on some of the MDT’s. I have seen it in school buses a few times. The coolant rad is surprisingly small.

People say they have marginal cooling at best. My 1987 doesn’t have an intercooler, but the rad is full size.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:16 PM   #67 (permalink)
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All good points backwoods.
Thanks DMG; I have a couple local complete P-Pump trucks I will purchase if I go that route.
Chassis is a 1992 and it did not have an intercooler. I added a full face rad and full face intercooler from a 2001 4900.



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Old 04-02-2019, 05:12 PM   #68 (permalink)
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So, timing was actually closer to 9.5*, I set it to ~17.5*. I have not driven it yet. While I need to fix the maintenance items for the cooling mentioned (fan shroud and viscous coupler) I am sure I will just go ahead and add more cooling capacity at the same time.
Is there a "standard" way or commercially available parts/equipment to add a supplemental radiator and a radiator to oil cooler loop?
If not I will figure out a way of doing but I know it has been done before.
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:54 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Look around the oil filter housing, may or may not have two large pipe plugs. One will be the inlet, one outlet for oil. From there you can get a Plate/Fin oil cooler with AN hoses. Get a NPT-AN fitting to thread into the NPT plug holes. Route the AN hose and cooler to the desired location. Pretty straight forward once you find the plugs. I used an Ebay cooler and was pretty happy with it.
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