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Old 04-15-2019, 07:45 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
Area under the curve (torque or horsepower, pick whichever). Turbo engine has a torque and power plateau compared to an N/A engine so you've got close to peak tq/hp available throughout almost the entire rev range.
What he's talking about is a comparison of the 2 ecoboost engines--both turbo'd.

Stock for stock, in unloaded pickups, the 2.7L ecoboost is faster 0-60 than the 3.5L ecoboost. It's a bit lighter, and apparently that makes the difference.

As you wind them out, the 3.5 catches up. If you load them down, there's no comparison.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:14 AM   #52 (permalink)
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I think the Ford V10 would be a fun swap as well, but are you looking to stay with EFI, or put a carb on it?
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:23 AM   #53 (permalink)
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I think the Ford V10 would be a fun swap as well, but are you looking to stay with EFI, or put a carb on it?
I'd prefer to go EFI... if not initially, I want to get their eventually.

I'm at 3500 feet elevation(Georgetown) and take trips down to zero in about one hour(Sacramento) or higher elevation at Tahoe
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:04 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
Area under the curve (torque or horsepower, pick whichever). Turbo engine has a torque and power plateau compared to an N/A engine so you've got close to peak tq/hp available throughout almost the entire rev range.
Is the 3.5L ecoboost not a turbo motor too??? Read what he posted he said 3.5L
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:06 AM   #55 (permalink)
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What he's talking about is a comparison of the 2 ecoboost engines--both turbo'd.

Stock for stock, in unloaded pickups, the 2.7L ecoboost is faster 0-60 than the 3.5L ecoboost. It's a bit lighter, and apparently that makes the difference.
So the 3.5L doesn't come in base models then I take it? I could see a reg cab vs crew truck. But crew cab vs crew I can see that much weight difference trim level wise, but I have no clue on furd stuff.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:08 AM   #56 (permalink)
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I'm at 3500 feet elevation(Georgetown) and take trips down to zero in about one hour(Sacramento) or higher elevation at Tahoe
You'll need a blower for your 8.1L then.
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:04 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Couple years ago I ran across a motor that would have seemed perfect for this type of build until I figured out what it was. Guy on CL had a "twin turbo V6 powerstroke out of a cab&chassis truck" so I went to look at it since I couldnt find any info on ford using a TTV6 diesel, turned out to be a 4.5L v6 powerstroke out of an old garbage truck and they are based on the 6.0 but with more of a 6.4 style turbo setup. Pity is on paper the numbers aren't bad (guy claimed something like 300hp and 500ft.lbs but its rated at 200hp 440ft.lbs) but this was right after my dads 6.0 popped a head @95k so I couldnt walk away fast enough. Looking back maybe deleted and studded could have been decent little motor, hindsight and all that though.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:32 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Couple years ago I ran across a motor that would have seemed perfect for this type of build until I figured out what it was. Guy on CL had a "twin turbo V6 powerstroke out of a cab&chassis truck" so I went to look at it since I couldnt find any info on ford using a TTV6 diesel, turned out to be a 4.5L v6 powerstroke out of an old garbage truck and they are based on the 6.0 but with more of a 6.4 style turbo setup. Pity is on paper the numbers aren't bad (guy claimed something like 300hp and 500ft.lbs but its rated at 200hp 440ft.lbs) but this was right after my dads 6.0 popped a head @95k so I couldnt walk away fast enough. Looking back maybe deleted and studded could have been decent little motor, hindsight and all that though.
Its an IH built like the 6.0L/6.4L were. But its 800lbs alone. It'll make more power but its heavy for what it is.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:35 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Couple years ago I ran across a motor that would have seemed perfect for this type of build until I figured out what it was. Guy on CL had a "twin turbo V6 powerstroke out of a cab&chassis truck" so I went to look at it since I couldnt find any info on ford using a TTV6 diesel, turned out to be a 4.5L v6 powerstroke out of an old garbage truck and they are based on the 6.0 but with more of a 6.4 style turbo setup. Pity is on paper the numbers aren't bad (guy claimed something like 300hp and 500ft.lbs but its rated at 200hp 440ft.lbs) but this was right after my dads 6.0 popped a head @95k so I couldnt walk away fast enough. Looking back maybe deleted and studded could have been decent little motor, hindsight and all that though.
And theyre garbage, about to send a whole bunch to auction for various reasons. The mechanics are tired of looking at them.
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:27 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I'm doing an 8.1l swap into my tow pig at the moment...

Picked up a complete rollover Yukon XL. (2003) These have the 4L85E already beefed up for the 8.1l. Also sprung for an HPtuners setup. These motors are very hamstrung from the factory- Power Enrichment is basically shut off. With just some minor tweaks I was able to wake the motor up nicely.

The oil consumption issue is said to be from the design of the PCV system- there is a small pipe opening on the bottom of the intake that is wide open to suck in oil spray. Some block it off and put a traditional PCV system on the valve covers.

Good luck with whatever you decide!
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:35 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I have an 8.1L and an 6 speed Allison in my garage.

Doing a cam, intake, headers and tune. Stock rebuild. Will let it eat.

Willl be going into a CCKW we're building... with a Holmes Wrecker body.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:01 PM   #62 (permalink)
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<snip 8.1>The oil consumption issue is said to be from the design of the PCV system- there is a small pipe opening on the bottom of the intake that is wide open to suck in oil spray. Some block it off and put a traditional PCV system on the valve covers.
Thank you for the information.

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Doing a cam, intake, headers and tune. Stock rebuild. Will let it eat.
What intake and headers were you doing? From the quick research I've done, it didn't sound like there was much out there for it

Are there any after market oil pans out for the 8.1? From my initial scan, it appears there is one for trucks/Avalanche and one for Suburban. I can't find out what is in the Express 3500.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:38 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Thank you for the information.


What intake and headers were you doing? From the quick research I've done, it didn't sound like there was much out there for it

Are there any after market oil pans out for the 8.1? From my initial scan, it appears there is one for trucks/Avalanche and one for Suburban. I can't find out what is in the Express 3500.
I plan to drop injectors and better rails onto the Dart 41616010 intake. Run a bigger 4500 series throttle body. Should max out the stock head's ability for air. I just milled injector ports into a different intake, so not hard to do. Also have aluminum weld in bungs if I can't make that work. Will go with a 50lbs LS1 style injector for tune-ability and cheap.

Like these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-FLOW-MATC...53.m1438.l2649

They match the EV1 connectors I use on swap harness I have made. Once i get the intake in, I can figure out which rails to run, but look like a FAST fuel rail will fit well and give me all the -8AN fuel I need at 58psi.

I have coil packs out the wazoo... and also the harness for them.

Considering that I am missing the fuel rails, wiring harness, injectors, throttle body and the intake sucks, might as well go with a bit more. I have several 0411 computers and harness.

I already own the mill and the injector end mill that does it in one step.

Might do speed density, might do an elbow with a MAF - could also hide the MAF under a vintage air cleaner.

Headers are easy... any long tube header for a BBC in your chassis. I will have a straight frame, so no header made, but I've had good luck with F body long tubes for a BBC.

I plan to use the big assed oil pan I already own. Like I said, straight frame rails and will have an Axletech 4K far below it.

My engine, as I got it... pretty much a core.

Good to know on the crank ventilation system. I plan to run a much different one.

Rebuild kits for these are cheap, on eBay. Water pump is cheap. Will build my own brackets to mount accessories, to get the packaging I need.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:56 PM   #64 (permalink)
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I think the Dart intake will flow better, but have to look into that before I buy it.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:43 PM   #65 (permalink)
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And theyre garbage, about to send a whole bunch to auction for various reasons. The mechanics are tired of looking at them.
Sorry for slight derail here OP lol.
I kinda figured that they pretty much would have all the problems of the 6.0 since they shared so many parts. Worse part for me is between my dad and I we have had 2 very different 6.0 experiences with me having one that was reliable and a 250k+ beat up work truck to him having a nice clean lower mile truck that had documentation for a good service history etc that clogged egr,blew head gasket,cracked head then maybe 2 weeks after rebuild had the up-pipe crack all within that 95k. We did full delete with the new stainless crossover & up-pipe and had no more issues but sold it as soon as found a 6spd ram @ decent price.
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:21 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Sorry for slight derail here OP lol.
I kinda figured that they pretty much would have all the problems of the 6.0 since they shared so many parts. Worse part for me is between my dad and I we have had 2 very different 6.0 experiences with me having one that was reliable and a 250k+ beat up work truck to him having a nice clean lower mile truck that had documentation for a good service history etc that clogged egr,blew head gasket,cracked head then maybe 2 weeks after rebuild had the up-pipe crack all within that 95k. We did full delete with the new stainless crossover & up-pipe and had no more issues but sold it as soon as found a 6spd ram @ decent price.
The only thing an 8.1L and LSx share is injection system IE computer stuff and ign coil packs. They are a big block chevy NOT an LS. So in no way does it compare to an LSx internally.
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:23 AM   #67 (permalink)
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The oil consumption can be pretty much be fixed with a catch can in the pcv system. Just have to check can and empty back in case or dump new oil and replace with new, either way it won't be going into the intake.
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:56 AM   #68 (permalink)
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<snip>
Might do speed density, might do an elbow with a MAF - could also hide the MAF under a vintage air cleaner.

Headers are easy... any long tube header for a BBC in your chassis. I will have a straight frame, so no header made, but I've had good luck with F body long tubes for a BBC.

I plan to use the big assed oil pan I already own. Like I said, straight frame rails and will have an Axletech 4K far below it.
<snip>
Rebuild kits for these are cheap, on eBay. Water pump is cheap. Will build my own brackets to mount accessories, to get the packaging I need.
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I think the Dart intake will flow better, but have to look into that before I buy it.
Everything I've read says the stock intake flows poorly.

My interest in an intake and oil pan is to loose a little bit of height. A bone stock LQ4 truck fit in an FJ55 but required going spring over because the oil pan was close to the diff.

It sounds like you are saying that any BBC header will bolt to an 8.1. Did I misunderstand? The stock frame on this rig is a bit on the narrow side.
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:01 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Everything I've read says the stock intake flows poorly.

My interest in an intake and oil pan is to loose a little bit of height. A bone stock LQ4 truck fit in an FJ55 but required going spring over because the oil pan was close to the diff.

It sounds like you are saying that any BBC header will bolt to an 8.1. Did I misunderstand? The stock frame on this rig is a bit on the narrow side.
That was my research, too. Dart intake is much lower and a dual plane.

Yes, they take BBC headers and regular SBC/BBC engine mounts and transmissions.
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:07 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Lots of guys find that they have to run older BBC exhaust manifolds to clear the frame on older trucks.

The 8.1l exhaust manifolds are “wider”.

The other issue is the A/C on most 8.1l motors is buried on the lower passenger side and interferes with narrower installs.

The fix has been to run the brackets/water pump from a Medium duty or a van 8.1l. There are a few guys talking about making aftermarket bracket sets, but I've not seen anything but prototypes thus far.
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:51 AM   #71 (permalink)
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I haven’t read the whole thread, yet. How about a turbo 8.1? A friend has one in a ‘02 dually. 705hp 830tq at the tire! That was with 16psi but he normally runs 5psi
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:12 PM   #72 (permalink)
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tow rig

I pull a LOT of stuff and most of its pretty heavy my tow vehicle of choice since 02 has been a 3/4 ton GM with a Duramax they are common as nails, parts if you eve need them are cheap and they pull everything I have ever asked it to. If I were looking at Gasoline it would without a doubt be a Big Block GM! The main reasons are that its a 100% tested with millions of miles on them for the last 50 years its seems. They are relatively inexpensive compared to Ford or Mopar. Parts a dirt cheap compared to Ford or Mopar. Parts availability and vastness of selection is never ending for the GM side. If a performance parts company is going to be building New and Improved parts for any engines its always going to be a SBC or a BBC FIRST, the rest come somewhere down the line!
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:43 PM   #73 (permalink)
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The only thing an 8.1L and LSx share is injection system IE computer stuff and ign coil packs. They are a big block chevy NOT an LS. So in no way does it compare to an LSx internally.
I'm guessing either you didnt read much of the thread or just accidentally quoted me instead of someone else lol. I was talking about the 4.5V6 powerstroke sharing parts with a 6.0 powerstroke.
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Old 04-17-2019, 08:04 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Sorry for slight derail here OP lol.
I kinda figured that they pretty much would have all the problems of the 6.0 since they shared so many parts.
<snip Ford 6.0 stuff>
No worries on the slight derail. After seeing all the horror stories with the Ford 6.0, it was below a Chevy 2.8L of choices

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That was my research, too. Dart intake is much lower and a dual plane.
The picture you show of it makes the Dart seem taller.

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Lots of guys find that they have to run older BBC exhaust manifolds to clear the frame on older trucks.

The 8.1l exhaust manifolds are “wider”.

The other issue is the A/C on most 8.1l motors is buried on the lower passenger side and interferes with narrower installs.

The fix has been to run the brackets/water pump from a Medium duty or a van 8.1l. There are a few guys talking about making aftermarket bracket sets, but I've not seen anything but prototypes thus far.
My issue is 'extra narrow' frame on the FJ55.

Here is a turbo'd 5.3L squeezed into an FJ55:


The driverside exhaust manifold has to get cut pretty badly to pull it in to clear the frame rail.

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I haven’t read the whole thread, yet. How about a turbo 8.1? A friend has one in a ‘02 dually. 705hp 830tq at the tire! That was with 16psi but he normally runs 5psi
Turbo on an 8.1L wasn't brought up but a regular 8.1L is the direction this thread is starting to go.
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Old 04-17-2019, 08:21 AM   #75 (permalink)
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I'm guessing either you didnt read much of the thread or just accidentally quoted me instead of someone else lol. I was talking about the 4.5V6 powerstroke sharing parts with a 6.0 powerstroke.
Missed you were talking 6.0L PSD sorry.
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