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Old 04-17-2019, 08:32 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lil'John View Post
My issue is 'extra narrow' frame on the FJ55.

The driverside exhaust manifold has to get cut pretty badly to pull it in to clear the frame rail.

Turbo on an 8.1L wasn't brought up but a regular 8.1L is the direction this thread is starting to go.
How wide is the frame internal width?

That intake looks tall as hell too. I bet you have enough room to keep A/C low, fit a stock intake, and still make exhaust work. Unless you're making alot of power the stock manifold is fine don't get caught up in internet power numbers etc.

The 8.1L is not that much bigger than LSx, couple inches wider at the heads and couple inches taller over which most is oil pan.
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Old 04-17-2019, 08:41 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bo185 View Post
How wide is the frame internal width?

That intake looks tall as hell too. I bet you have enough room to keep A/C low, fit a stock intake, and still make exhaust work. Unless you're making alot of power the stock manifold is fine don't get caught up in internet power numbers etc.

The 8.1L is not that much bigger than LSx, couple inches wider at the heads and couple inches taller over which most is oil pan.
I don't have the number sitting in hand for internal width. My memory says 25".

The intake combo shown is actually 1" taller than height of a stock truck intake.

I know that a 'regular' 454 will fit in an FJ55... I saw one about 20 years ago
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Old 04-17-2019, 09:22 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lil'John View Post

The picture you show of it makes the Dart seem taller.
Might be the pics.

I won't know until I get the intake, but it looks like 3" lower, with a comparable throttle body on it.

There are other pics around of that intake with carbs, fitting in square body Chevies.
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Old 04-17-2019, 09:22 AM   #79 (permalink)
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LJ, You asked about a 400 CID engine back a page ago or so..

There is the 400 SBC prone to overheating hence the steam holes between cylinders and there is also a 402 BBC.

The 402 BBC was a rare bird in years produced, the 454 was more widely used.

BBC MKIV engines.

396
402
427
454
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Old 04-17-2019, 09:37 AM   #80 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
Might be the pics.

I won't know until I get the intake, but it looks like 3" lower, with a comparable throttle body on it.

There are other pics around of that intake with carbs, fitting in square body Chevies.
I'll have to dig around for more info on it. Speed density tune with aftermarket throttle body plus 'regular' round air cleaner might make for a short combo.

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Originally Posted by ParadiseAutoElectric View Post
LJ, You asked about a 400 CID engine back a page ago or so..

There is the 400 SBC prone to overheating hence the steam holes between cylinders and there is also a 402 BBC.

The 402 BBC was a rare bird in years produced, the 454 was more widely used.

BBC MKIV engines.

396
402
427
454
Thank you for the info. The 400 brought up earlier was actually the Ford 400 Cleveland

In all honesty, if I was going to start with a non-EFI engine, I would go with a big block Cadillac; light weight and has 'the perfect' oilpan for this swap.

The 8.1L is kind of high on my list at this point. Although the 7.4L Vortec is intriguing because of the sideways facing throttle body.
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Old 04-17-2019, 11:06 AM   #81 (permalink)
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If your putting this thing on tons, I'm assuming full width for better stability, any thoughts as to widening the front frame rails? You could probably gain 4" of width pretty easy by doing so. You might be able to just strategically cut the frame rails to pull them open a bit more, then weld them back up. Might be easier to just fab a whole new frame from the firewall forward. Of course now were off topic.....

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Old 04-17-2019, 11:25 AM   #82 (permalink)
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If your putting this thing on tons, I'm assuming full width for better stability, any thoughts as to widening the front frame rails? You could probably gain 4" of width pretty easy by doing so. You might be able to just strategically cut the frame rails to pull them open a bit more, then weld them back up. Might be easier to just fab a whole new frame from the firewall forward. Of course now were off topic.....
Not entirely off the topic. Your comments address fitment issues so I appreciate the line of thought.

I'm currently on the fence for how wide to do the axles. My initial thought is 60" wide like one of my FJ55s. It handles VERY nice onroad especially with the swaybar attached I could do full width but in order to run leaf springs with the stock frame, I would have to outboard them by 3.5".

You do bring up an excellent point on widening the frame. In that area of the frame, it is 25" wide inside. The rear of the frame is 35" inside. I do have to remove the body from this project and the front crossmember is detached and will need to be replaced. For this project, that does make perfect sense.

Replacing the frame in any substantial method is pretty much out of the question. According to California, the frame is the vehicle(VIN) Any substantial replacement of the frame constitutes new/specialty vehicle. I found that out about 6 months ago for a different project I was looking at.
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Old 04-17-2019, 12:15 PM   #83 (permalink)
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How much do those 8.1L with transmissions go for? Can't find much info or many of them on CL or the like for sale?
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Old 04-17-2019, 12:25 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lil'John View Post

The 8.1L is kind of high on my list at this point. Although the 7.4L Vortec is intriguing because of the sideways facing throttle body.
The 8.1L Whipple blower has a sideways TB it will fit!
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Last edited by Bo185; 04-17-2019 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 04-17-2019, 01:00 PM   #85 (permalink)
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How much do those 8.1L with transmissions go for? Can't find much info or many of them on CL or the like for sale?
For unknown mileage and ready to run, you can spend $4k at Tilden:
http://tildenmotorsports.com/tilden-...kage-8-1l.html

For me, that is largely off the plate since a shop I deal with has had VERY bad luck with them.

I've seen some available in the $1500 range but I'm not sure if they are 'swap' pullouts or long blocks.

The last 4l80e I bought was ~$300 for a core and about $2k for a moderately HD rebuild for the turbo 5.3L. That was ~18 months ago.

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The 8.1L Whipple blower has a sideways TB it will fit!
At the mild cost of $8k... plus some lower end upgrades required
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Old 04-28-2019, 03:08 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Lots of good information provided and very much appreciated.

Option 1B fell into my lap for a steal:


For a little more than the cost of a new Edelbrock intake for the big block caddy, I got a running swap ready engine. The claim is it was a 1969 500. Not sure I buy the 1969 since that would have been a 472 but I can't discount it having a crank swapped in.

It has high compression heads, the Edelbrock intake, an Edelbrock quadrajet, an HEI distributor, some beat up Sanderson headers, the 368 rear sump oil pan, and the rockers were replaced with a non-adjustable shaft rocker assembly The camshaft is the current unknown as is whether it is a 472 or 500.

I will be trying to figure out what crank is in there once I get it on an engine stand.

Does anyone have a good way to figure out what cam is in it?

I need to figure out the crank and cam so I can do a TBI swap. I'm just short the 368 distributor.
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Old 04-28-2019, 03:58 PM   #87 (permalink)
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are you using a stock TBI GM setup?
was there one available for those?

I'm caddy engine ignorant.

but what about the sniper or some other aftermarket TBI? I'd think they would have all the trigger wheels and such sorted out.
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Old 04-28-2019, 04:11 PM   #88 (permalink)
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are you using a stock TBI GM setup?
was there one available for those?

I'm caddy engine ignorant.

but what about the sniper or some other aftermarket TBI? I'd think they would have all the trigger wheels and such sorted out.
The problem with sniper and other aftermarket TBIs is cost. I don't recall seeing any under $1500.

I've got everything off a 454 TBI engine including quadrajet adapter and wiring harness... I want to say $50.

One part of the swap is putting the 2" TBI onto the engine:


From there, I need to get a distributor... this would be the Cadillac 368 version. I've got a line on one for about $40. It will need to get repined and the wiring lengthened.

From there, I need to get a chip programmed. Last quick look said anywhere from $150 to $200. The challenge is knowing what the internals are.
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:12 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Whelp, looks like I am doing the 496 then.
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:23 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ParadiseAutoElectric View Post
LJ, You asked about a 400 CID engine back a page ago or so..

There is the 400 SBC prone to overheating hence the steam holes between cylinders and there is also a 402 BBC.

The 402 BBC was a rare bird in years produced, the 454 was more widely used.

BBC MKIV engines.

396
402
427
454
402 is a very common big block, Not to be confused with the 396 that was also called a 402 or the 402 that was also called a 396.

There were 4 402 variants. 2 were 1970 model year only. 2 were common as dirt.

402 was a marketing ploy to be used in trucks, and they thought 396 sounded more sporty, so they marketed it as such in some cars.

So a 402 from a truck is really a 402... and a 396 from a car could also be a 402.

You're right, not as common as a 454.

"During its lifetime, this 6.6-liter V8 was used in such vehicles as the Camaro, Chevelle, Nova, and Monte Carlo. Although it displaced 6-cubic-inches more than the 396 and had a bore that was 0.03 inches wider than the 396, Chevrolet marketed the 402 as a 396 on its smaller cars like the Nova, while labeling it as a 402 in its full-size automobiles."



https://itstillruns.com/history-chev...e-7750247.html

I had a 69 Chevelle SS - it had a 402 in it from the factory, with 396 badges.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:08 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Summit sells a tbi efi kit for under $1000, but it's probably too small for a big block with some work done to it.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-240505

Put a Dodgem 8 liter V10 in it.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:18 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Holley Sniper and don't look back.

Can be had for less than 1K.
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:05 AM   #93 (permalink)
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Summit sells a tbi efi kit for under $1000, but it's probably too small for a big block with some work done to it.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-240505
It also didn't have a fuel pump or regulator.

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Holley Sniper and don't look back.

Can be had for less than 1K.
The cheapest new one I found was right at $1k with others being $12xx.

Because this isn't a high performance motor or something I'm going to tinker with, all the extra adjustments provided by aftermarket EFIs doesn't make sense for me especially at the added extra cost.

As noted, for under $500 total and ~$150 out of pocked now, I should have a reasonably running fuel injected cady. The $1000+ I would have to pull out of my pocket now would be better spent on a front axle or rear axle
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Old 05-09-2019, 11:53 AM   #94 (permalink)
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The problem with sniper and other aftermarket TBIs is cost. I don't recall seeing any under $1500.

I've got everything off a 454 TBI engine including quadrajet adapter and wiring harness... I want to say $50.

One part of the swap is putting the 2" TBI onto the engine:


From there, I need to get a distributor... this would be the Cadillac 368 version. I've got a line on one for about $40. It will need to get repined and the wiring lengthened.

From there, I need to get a chip programmed. Last quick look said anywhere from $150 to $200. The challenge is knowing what the internals are.
FiTech has systems around $800 and there's several other options for under $1000
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