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Old 05-17-2019, 11:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Light duty dump trailer build questions

Looking to build a small dump trailer for a barn, primary use will be to reduce workload and amount of trips in and out of the barn to muck stalls and bring in fresh shavings. Not going to be used on road, so no busloads of nuns will be in danger.

4x8x1 bed, planning to use 14ga for the floor and sides

Would 2x3 .120 wall rectangular tubing be sufficient for the frame? 2x2 for the bed?

Last edited by paintsnow; 05-17-2019 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Might want to look for a dump bed intert and cobble some axles under it. The last one I bought was $300
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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In Iowa, we use manure spreaders for that.
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Find an old pickup bed, or back half of a truck and make a dump trailer from that
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Not much for sale out here near Denver that I can make work for the intended use, so I guess I'll turn this into a build thread.

Design parameters:
Not road legal
narrow for easy fit in barn isle
lightweight, capable to be pulled by golf cart or sxs, even better if it can be dragged on concrete with a wheeled jack up front by hand.
easy to dump
primary use will be to increase productivity and efficiency for cleaning manure from barn and bringing in fresh shavings.

Trying to keep the materials below $1500, I think it will be close.
2x3 .120 main frame
2x2 .120 Dump bed frame, 14 or 16 ga floor and sides, 4'x8'x1'
2x2x1/8 angle for cross members and reinforcement throughout
2000k 48" spring perch axle from TSC, with matching springs and hanger kit
12v battery with solar panel to run a 3500k HF winch for dumping trailer.
2x 7" barrel hinges at back of trailer for dump pivot.

Still trying to figure out a cheap and easy coupler without using a ball, or pintle for the end of a piece of 2x3 .120, as well as a tailgate, and possibly side gates.

Open to any suggestions and ideas, this will be my first big project and I'm hoping to not hack it up.

While the 2k axle might get slightly overloaded, I don't think the bearings would burn up with short distance low speed hauling. I've debated solid mounting it instead of using leaf springs but haven't fully decided.
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Old 05-23-2019, 04:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Tow Ready 63045 is like $25 on Amazon. Slip it into a 2.5x1/4 tube, weld it and there's your coupler.

No way in hell I'd use anything with a 1/8 wall thickness for the tongue.

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Old 05-23-2019, 05:00 AM   #7 (permalink)
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get HF trailer 4x8 is around 500$
https://www.harborfreight.com/1720-l...ler-62647.html

build metal box on top that hinges at back

build upright pole with pulley
mount HF winch
profit

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Old 05-23-2019, 05:08 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredycruger View Post
get HF trailer 4x8 is around
build metal box on top that hinges at back

build upright pole with pulley
mount HF winch
profit
If you can find the coupon and the trailer is like $259 or something like that.

And as we've established in the BDL thread the HF 4x8 has no problem hauling 2k.
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Old 05-23-2019, 10:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I'd get a solid dummy axle and 2 wheels and tires from a fwd minivan or shit box car, narrow if necessary, then build the A frame tongue so that it pivots in front of the axle, build the upright post and just put a $40 ratchet hand crank on it to dump it once a day. Save $1100 for stuff that goes down the road
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Old 05-23-2019, 08:04 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I had initially thought about using the HF trailer, but it being rated less than 2k (and a HF product), and folding was a concern, and at $450 it wasn't much more to buy the parts and built it stronger. I was thinking the 2x3 .120 tubing would flex less than the thin c channel on that trailer.

Found a coupon for $350 and it would make my life a lot easier. My biggest concern is hinging 2k+ lbs off the back of that crappy C Channel. Replace it with a 4ft section of heavy wall tubing, gusset the crap out of it and call it a day?

The linked video of the upright and pulley is my plan.
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Old 06-02-2019, 09:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Harbor Freight isn't selling any trailers right now due to a recall. So I went and picked up steel, and made some progress.

Axle is located 40" from the rear of the 4x8 1.5" square frame that will be the dump bed, however I am considering moving it forward significantly. The hitch already has more material and weight, and I will be adding a 60lb battery, and a winch on about a 2 foot riser to the tongue. Since this will be pulled with a sxs or other small vehicle at slow speeds I want to keep the tongue weight down. I'm not sure how far forward it can go, and still be safe/keep the tow vehicle wheels on the ground while dumping.

Also I was planning on running a few sets of 2 tabs on the 2x3, and 1 tab on the 1.5sq dump body with a bolt through all 3 as hinges. It seemed like it would work in my head, but having the faces parallel at rest looks different. Any input is appreciated, I'll see where I get tomorrow.






Overall, this is my first welding project, I'm pretty happy with the progress so far.

Oh and instead of a tall vertical post to winch off of, I'm going to try the concept in this video, with a scissor lift to avoid the 7ft tall upright.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-tdfIVCmCM

I didn't account for space for the winch rope and pulley so I'll have to figure that out later as well.

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Old 06-03-2019, 04:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Drill some weep holes in that tubing. It will get water in it and rust out.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:15 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Drill some weep holes in that tubing. It will get water in it and rust out.
There will be no open ends of tube, everything was fully welded. Are you saying enough water will get in through the welds to cause rust from the inside? Genuine question. If I pressure tested to ensure no pinholes would that alleviate the concern?

I imagine small weep holes in a farm environment would allow mud and dirt in the tubes, which when mixed with moisture would trap more water and plug up the intended drain holes.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:07 AM   #14 (permalink)
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How much do you trust your welds?

On powder coated boat trailers (the ones that see saltwater) usually the cross-members (which are fully welded) are pristine when the rest of the trailer rusts out.

That said, if moisture gets in it will rust that shit out fast.

I wouldn't drill any holes. Moisture won't get in if you don't let it in.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:28 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I'd say they look decent to me. No formal education, only welded a few times previously.



I don't see any undercutting or porosity. I did multiple passes over several that were tucked in corners. The welds I ground down only had a couple tiny bubbles in the weld at the front cross bar where I had a decent 1/8"-3/16" gap to fill. I'm only grinding the welds that would interfere with fit up or the dump frame laying flat.
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Old 06-03-2019, 05:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
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For this being your first welding project they look far better than most welds on this board 😆

I've never seen a properly built square tube trailer frame rust out (my 0.02). I'm not saying it can't happen, but if you weld all the joints on it you shouldn't have an issue.

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Old 06-04-2019, 04:17 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I've never seen a properly built square tube trailer frame rust out (my 0.02). I'm not saying it can't happen, but if you weld all the joints on it you shouldn't have an issue.
I've seen a couple rust out but that took 30+yr.

Hitch receivers are fully welded and over the course of ~20yr they eventually rust out, get crap in them and rust out even faster.

You need to clean your shit and repaint it once in awhile if you want it to last.
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:30 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Also I was planning on running a few sets of 2 tabs on the 2x3, and 1 tab on the 1.5sq dump body with a bolt through all 3 as hinges. It seemed like it would work in my head, but having the faces parallel at rest looks different. Any input is appreciated, I'll see where I get tomorrow.
A cheap hinge is made with 1/2" round bar stock slid inside iron pipe 1/2" works well just cut in a few places and weld sections of the iron pipe to both sides. This will also let you place your pivot point between the two steel bars rather easily. to keep the pin (bar stock) from sliding too far weld a cutoff on the end.
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:48 AM   #19 (permalink)
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For this being your first welding project they look far better than most welds on this board 😆

I've never seen a properly built square tube trailer frame rust out (my 0.02). I'm not saying it can't happen, but if you weld all the joints on it you shouldn't have an issue.

Looks good, Subscribed!
It happens to all of them but takes some time 15-20 years. On something like this Id just wait it out and fix when needed.
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:30 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Yeah, 15-20 years isn't a priority concern.

Can I move the axle to the balance point safely and not have the trailer throw a golf cart in the air when it dumps a load?
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:41 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Can always flood the tubes with cavity wax if you want to go overboard....
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:24 AM   #22 (permalink)
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This below is a copy and paste I found but it is better than I could have said and explained it. OP for something to pull behind a golf cart I think you are spending way too much on materials for what you are asking the trailer to do. If you are trying haul a ton of material in that trailer I would expect the front wheels of a golf cart to be 5ft off the ground from the tongue weight. I would have little worry about the opposite when dumping but if I did I would build a leg on a hinge to swing down when dumping. I would have used a axle off a truck and full size tires with no springs, let the tires be the suspension. I think you could have saved a lot of money and headaches by using C channel. I do think your welds look fine.







Aircraft tube fuselages are constructed from numerous small tubes that are welded to form a truss type structure. Obviously, if these structures were to rust from condensation inside the tubing it could be fatal, and since there isn't margin in the design to allow for rust, this problem has to be avoided.

For many many years linseed oil and later boiled linseed oil has been used in aircraft tube airframes and structures like engine mounts to prevent rust from forming in the tubes. Typically the tube structure gets built up and after welding small holes would be drilled and tubes filled with linseed oil and then drained. The linseed oil formed a film on the inside surface and prevented rust from forming due to condensation inside the tubes.

More recently LPS 3 has replaced linseed oil, but the concept is the same. Fill the tube structure and then drain and you will get good coverage and it won't rust.

If you are going to weld up a tube structure also make sure that if you get condensation in the tubing it can drain out. If it can't drain then make sure there is a rust preventative coating inside the tubes.

Some aircraft and some race cars that used tube frame structures have the tubes interconnected by small holes, and the tubing system is sealed and pressurized Usually with dry nitrogen). A pressure gauge is used to monitor the structure. If the pressure drops off you know the structure has cracked. This obviously means that every weld must be pressure tight, but if properly done that is case. What can be done in that case is to pump down the frame with a vacuum pump so that there is no air (and moisture) inside the tubing, and then it is pressurized with dry nitrogen and you are pretty much good for life.
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:52 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Got the hinges set up and welded. Onto the scissor lift.

Still looking for info/advice on how far forward I can put the axle without making the golf cart fly when it dumps. Everything on google is geared towards towing at highway speeds and heavier vehicles. I don't think I need 10% tongue weight and would like to minimize the abuse to the cart or future sxs pulling this. Even better if it's movable with a load in it by hand on level concrete.




Last edited by paintsnow; 06-04-2019 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:59 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Your main issue is that when you dump all the weight transfers to the rear so if you move the axles forward for less tongue weight then when you dump it will lift the rear of whatever light vehicle is hauling it.

For minimal tongue weight I would suggest a drop leg on the back to keep it from lifting the front. Put your axle at the center line of the bed or a couple inches back.

I think you would be better off mounting the axle with the u-bolts straight to the frame, then load it up and see what it did. If it needs more tongue weight, then loosen the axles and move it forward or back.

It's essentially a garden cart, just build it how it works for what you want to do don't worry about specs.
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