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Old 03-01-2012, 11:23 AM   #1 (permalink)
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FToy/X-Chassis back seat thread

My kids are growing. My standard 153" chassis is only going to work for them for another year or so. They're going to start running out of headroom and legroom.

For headroom, I'm going to have to drop the bottom of the back seat between the framerails. For legroom, I have to decide if I want to stick with the existing cage and tube out behind it, and back seat access kind of sucks with this option...

or chop from the b-pillars back and add new tubing. This would make it no longer "WERock comp-legal", but back seat access is far better.

I don't plan to compete in a WERock comp, but I do want to keep my rig close to legal if I ever wanted to sell it one day. I also know that Mike and Camo spent a lot of time engineering the existing design, and I want to pause to think about it before I fuck up a good thing.


Options/thoughts?

Pics of both comp-legal (uncut) and cut/retubed cages.

Loose Kannon's retubed:


Trader's retubed:


#40:



Maveric's #92:




My backseat:

8-9yo kids just fit:



Extending the tubework and roof is a MUST. Just looking for ideas HOW.

Last edited by MT4Runner; 03-01-2012 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 03-01-2012, 01:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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nobs' #117:





I don't like the sheet metal edge above the heads of the back seat passengers in case of a rollover.
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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sounds like you need to build another one you have yours now your wife needs hers
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Old 03-02-2012, 07:51 AM   #4 (permalink)
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How about adding a bar over the kids heads with a couple of supports using some of these? strong enough?
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:25 AM   #5 (permalink)
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sounds like you need to build another one you have yours now your wife needs hers


Monkeys might fly out of my ass first.

Rig has been completed for 3 years. Wifey has never ridden in it.
She was in the 4Runner maybe 3 times in the 4 years I was wheelin' it. It's not her thing.

A kid buggy is a lot more likely. I'm thinking a UTV-sized rig with a street bike engine and narrowed 7.5" Toy IFS diffs and a-arms front and rear.

Oh, wait, that would be fun for me, too!!

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How about adding a bar over the kids heads with a couple of supports using some of these? strong enough?
If I go that quick/easy bar location like #92, I think I'll just weld that bar to the back down tubes.


"Prettiest FToy ever" had the same hoop:



If I put that in, something tells me I'd want to not leave those nodes unsupported.
Maybe I'm over-thinking it.
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:43 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Do a rear "halo" bar that's parallel to the rearmost roof support and attaches to the rearmost roof support. Two short tubes running down from the corners to the existing rear down bars then two more short pieces that run down to a rear seat back bar. Make sence? Then you can preserve the stock class legal bars. Looking down from top "halo" bar looks like this,
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
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rear seat halo

I just purchased Ftoy #09 as a trail rig - here is a pic from the previous owner of the rear seat and halo. Pretty simple and functional.

they appear to be Mitsubishi rear sets from a trooper or monty.

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Old 03-04-2012, 06:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I say build your rig so it fits your needs. If the family cannot come then whats the point of the whole thing. Put a hoop across the back, cut out the bar and add some pre teen seat.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I say build your rig so it fits your needs. If the family cannot come then whats the point of the whole thing. Put a hoop across the back, cut out the bar and add some pre teen seat.
her is a pic of my beard kids seats,had them custom width made so they are are the same width as the super but are 3'' shorter for leg room
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:50 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I say build your rig so it fits your needs. If the family cannot come then whats the point of the whole thing. Put a hoop across the back, cut out the bar and add some pre teen seat.
You know, that's why I like Pirate. You get the good advice that you don't want to give (or admit) to yourself.


After looking at Brian Ellinger's FToy, with the rear shocks angled back, I think I can move my shock mount bar back at least 5" without moving the axle at all. I can move the seat back for 3-4" more legroom and also make it lean back a bit more.

Thanks Seriousscout.

I had thought about that, mtbrjon, but with all the tubes left in there, the back seat access sucks. I'm tall, and my daughters are getting taller, so it's going to get harder and harder for them to stuff themselves in through all those bars. I also don't like the idea of a tube right next to their heads--even wearing a helmet.

After Rod's comments, I'm thinking this route--with tube removal.

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Old 03-05-2012, 12:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I found that there is no sence in putting any energy into making a back seat for my 10yr old. He has no interest in going unless he can AT LEAST sit in the front. Oh, and he wants to drive.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I found that there is no sence in putting any energy into making a back seat for my 10yr old. He has no interest in going unless he can AT LEAST sit in the front. Oh, and he wants to drive.


Awesome!


I suspect my (now) 8yo daughter will be ready to drive before if not the same time as her 10yo sister. My oldest is a sweet kid, but she's a dingbat. My youngest is very mechanically inclined and I'm 99% certain she'll be more responsible--and eager to be--behind the wheel.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:19 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I don't know why I keep calling him 10years old. He'll be 12 next month. I still see him as my little 10 year old though. Don't tell him i said that. lol.
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:13 PM   #14 (permalink)
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When I built mine I made sure that the seat went forward enough for my 10yo son then I made sure it went back far enough for me. My back seat is actually a Rhino seat that PRP made wider for my needs. I would angle the shocks to the rear, add a top bar and push the seat back if you're kids will still be riding back there for a couple of years. My son (is 15 now) and does a lot of driving now and my daughter is in college now so she doesn't come out as much.
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Old 03-07-2012, 03:24 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Do what best suits your needs. If a future owner wants it stock there's nothing that can't be cut out and redone.
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:40 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Adding tubing to the chassis would not make it illegal for comps. Think of it like this does adding tubing give me any advantage, obviously no.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:54 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Adding tubing to the chassis would not make it illegal for comps. Think of it like this does adding tubing give me any advantage, obviously no.
But I would assume removal of a tube, and installing a new one, even though it makes the chassis larger, would make the chassis not comp legal? If Im wrong, and redoing to downbars like the first pic is deemed OK, Im chopping tubes!
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:57 AM   #18 (permalink)
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You want some pics of how I squeezed front & back seats in my chassis? The "head protection" tubes haven't gone in yet, but the seats are mounted and in place.

Both front seats are on sliders (passenger loses sliders with the Atlas 4speed), back seat has plenty of leg room for kids, and even I fit back there surprisingly well.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:56 AM   #19 (permalink)
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But I would assume removal of a tube, and installing a new one, even though it makes the chassis larger, would make the chassis not comp legal? If Im wrong, and redoing to downbars like the first pic is deemed OK, Im chopping tubes!
I don't think it would be a problem to do like the first pic. The only thing that is going to stop you from competing is a safety concern. After that someone would have to protest your chassis as being an unfair advantage. Obviously buy making the chassis bigger there is no advantage.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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But I would assume removal of a tube, and installing a new one, even though it makes the chassis larger, would make the chassis not comp legal? If Im wrong, and redoing to downbars like the first pic is deemed OK, Im chopping tubes!
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I don't think it would be a problem to do like the first pic. The only thing that is going to stop you from competing is a safety concern. After that someone would have to protest your chassis as being an unfair advantage. Obviously buy making the chassis bigger there is no advantage.
A huge part of my decision to build an FToy is its resale-ability. I hope to not need to sell my rig for the forseeable future, but nobody knows what the future holds. If I can keep it "comp legal", then that helps me hold its future value. ...otherwise, it's "just another Toyota buggy" and only worth what I can part it out for.

There isn't a WE-Rock class for FToys this year, and the "FToys for sale and wanted" thread is still active. Mike and Camo did something right, and I want to keep my FToy an FToy!

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You want some pics of how I squeezed front & back seats in my chassis? The "head protection" tubes haven't gone in yet, but the seats are mounted and in place.

Both front seats are on sliders (passenger loses sliders with the Atlas 4speed), back seat has plenty of leg room for kids, and even I fit back there surprisingly well.
By all means, I'd love to see it. I was hoping to make this somewhat of a "FToy backseat FAQ" thread--and not just for my own purposes.

Brian's and Mike's comments above are exactly what I hoped would get discussed.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Not sure why my attachment disappeared from post #10. Here's what I'm currently thinking:
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:35 AM   #22 (permalink)
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My F-Toy is at FU2 right now for new shock mounts for my 2.5" shocks for the EMC and to get some cross members replaced. We are also going to be adding a back seat for the kids that will be replaced with a large propane tank and firewall for the race. I am going to be using a PRP Rhino/Teyrx seat (http://www.prpseats.com/Products/73-...p-holders.aspx). PRP has always been good to me and this new seat looks awesome. It is 3 inches shorter and 42” wide and it has built in cup holders. At 42” it should be 35” at the base which will allow us to put the rear of the seat below the top of the frame arch to give a couple more inches of headroom. I’ll try to get some pictures as it progresses but the plan as of today is to do like Xchassis 14 but with a taller rear hoop for better head room and visibility. That could change once Bender starts slinging tube but I’m sure it will be for the better. Here is a pic of Xchassis 14 for reference.
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Old 03-09-2012, 07:57 AM   #23 (permalink)
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DToys X-chassis before it became a race car.
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:40 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I have not had any issues with the rear support tubes bending much with my roof extension. Mine has been on its lid a lot, and I have bent the additional tube a little, but the original down tubes (unsupported) have held up very well.
I will probably be pulling the premies out next year and putting a bench in there. Was thinking the rhino seat would work for mine as well. My biggest issue is since I moved the rear seats back to create some foot room, they are mounted higher on the curve of the frame and therefore, I lost a lot of headroom. I might recline the bench back more to lower the rear of the seat.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:38 AM   #25 (permalink)
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If you're remodeling for a bench anyway, I'd suggest dropping the bottom of the bench between the framerails--otherwise you'll be doing it anyway in a couple of years--even if it involves some shock and exhaust relocation.

Reclining the bench back to lower the rear will reduce legroom if the back of the bench is already against the shock hoop. This is where I'm at and I'm planning to angle the shocks back to preserve legroom.

Preemies--age 2-6
Bench on framerails--age 6-9
Bench between framerails (Need head room but can't drive)--age 9-12?
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