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Old 05-21-2007, 12:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Starting truck question

I read though the FAQ... did a search but didn't see anything that really convinced me one way or the other.

Specifically, the FAQ said 86-95 trucks but left whether the 2wd versions would work(same for 79-85) I saw in a couple of posts 2wd versions mentioned... mostly about how much "cleaner" the frames were.

So, will 2wd trucks work with the formula toy cage?

Now for some other related starter vehicle questions:
1) I'm under the impression that the 79-85 frames had higher wheel arches. Is this true on the 2wd ones also? Would this sway you away from the 86-95 frames?
2) Would the 86-95 2wd PS boxes work for crossover steer? Or should that not even be worried about?
3) Does it matter if it is an extra cab? Regular cabs usually sell for cheaper.

I'm just mulling some options over... one of which is to get a regular cab 2wd 86-95 truck then get the cheap/free rear axle and do the standard SAS for cheapness/ease. The uncertainty for me is in the PS box.

The other is to get the 4wd version because it'd have the rear axle and PS. But there is the added price of 4wd but not sure if it is worth the $1k for $200 of more useful parts
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Old 05-21-2007, 01:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm leaning toward building and F-Toy as well. I'd like to find a 2wd with a 22RE. I want the 2wd so it will have the arched front framerails. See 4RnrRick's "Quasimodo" build in the Toy Truck & 4Runner forum for some photos.

See the other current post about arched vs. 4wd IFS frames. I really want an arched frame, and it doesn't look like the rules would let you modify an IFS frame to resemble a solid axle 4wd/ifs 2wd frame.

If I went with an 84 4wd, I'd pay $1k more for a truck that's been beat on harder, and I'd still want to swap for the wider rear axle, a W56 tranny, and an IFS PS box.

Also, a 2wd truck should have fewer miles (or easier miles) on a 22RE for less money than a 4wd rig.

For the standard length FToy chassis, you want a regular cab or 4Runner donor frame. For the Formula Four, you want an xtracab donor.
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Old 05-21-2007, 02:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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My truck runs an ifs chassis and I don't have any issues with the front frame not being arched. If it is you could always notch for the draglink if it is an issue.

A bonus is the front ifs frame rails are much stronger than the pre 85.
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Old 05-21-2007, 02:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Do you think frame strength is as much of an issue when the entire rig is a truss formed with the chassis on top?

I know you need to run ~4" of lift on a SAS rig to clear tierod and draglink; you probably only need to run 1.5-2" of lift on a SA rig for the same clearance...so you can stay lower.
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Old 05-21-2007, 04:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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2wd frames are legal and as stated above, they are usually in better shape. The main difference (other than front suspension) is the 2wd frame has a welded in transmission x-member that you have to cut out (no big deal).
The steering box on a 2wd is alot smaller than a IFS box.
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Old 05-21-2007, 05:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the replies.

So long story short is that aside from a cheaper starting rig, there really is no benefit to using a 2wd frame since the PS box and rear axle would have to be replaced anyways??
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Old 05-21-2007, 05:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Thanks for all the replies.

So long story short is that aside from a cheaper starting rig, there really is no benefit to using a 2wd frame since the PS box and rear axle would have to be replaced anyways??
If you want a 82 LB 4x4 frame I have one you can have just come and pick it up
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Old 05-21-2007, 07:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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benttoy, thanks for the offer. But at this time, still doing my research

From the reading I've done, it almost sounds like a frame is the best route to go.
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Old 05-21-2007, 10:01 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MT4Runner View Post
Do you think frame strength is as much of an issue when the entire rig is a truss formed with the chassis on top?

I know you need to run ~4" of lift on a SAS rig to clear tierod and draglink; you probably only need to run 1.5-2" of lift on a SA rig for the same clearance...so you can stay lower.

pretty sure it was Desertoy who had to straighten and reinforce retodd's ftoy frame a couple a years ago because it got all bent up.
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Old 05-22-2007, 03:42 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MT4Runner View Post
Do you think frame strength is as much of an issue when the entire rig is a truss formed with the chassis on top?

I know you need to run ~4" of lift on a SAS rig to clear tierod and draglink; you probably only need to run 1.5-2" of lift on a SA rig for the same clearance...so you can stay lower.
The stronger the frame the fewer support bars needed to actually make the thing into a "truss" design. The front of the frame will take a beating in comps. Drops onto the front framerails and "rockbumping" or "treebumping" (Eastern style) to simulate a front burn will require front framerail strength.

I think the magic number for belly height is around 25" because we are so much wider across the bottom than full tube buggies. So having 1.5" - 2" would give a lower cog I think you'll belly down and time out too often. You can fairly easily achieve 25" belly pan with 3"-4" springs and have adequate up travel and droop, and be able to do some semi-high speed driving using and IFS frame so I don't think there's a huge advantage either way.

BTW-Our "comp" Ftoy will be built on a 83 swb 4wd frame. Why? Because I have a nice rust free, straight frame sitting behind my shop.
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Old 05-22-2007, 08:26 AM   #11 (permalink)
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was Re:Todd's a 2wd frame originally?

Lil'John,
If you have a pre-85 4wd frame, and want the wider rear IFS axle, you change axles anyway...2wd probably has the 7.5" 5-lug axle. If you have a SA frame with a push-pull box, you change the box, too, anyway.
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Old 05-22-2007, 10:19 AM   #12 (permalink)
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was Re:Todd's a 2wd frame originally?

Lil'John,
If you have a pre-85 4wd frame, and want the wider rear IFS axle, you change axles anyway...2wd probably has the 7.5" 5-lug axle. If you have a SA frame with a push-pull box, you change the box, too, anyway.

nope it was a pre 86 4x4 frame. just the frame arc in the front is real thin.
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Old 05-22-2007, 12:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Sure, Pook, just when I think I have it all figured out, you confuse me with more facts!!!

Back to do more research! Thanks for showing me my ASSumptions meant nothing!

Frankly, I enjoy the learning as much as I do the fabrication and the wheelin'.
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Old 05-22-2007, 02:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
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how desertoy had to fix re:todd's

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=500466
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:49 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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pretty sure it was Desertoy who had to straighten and reinforce retodd's ftoy frame a couple a years ago because it got all bent up.
Thats what happens when you drop it nose first of a 30 foot bonus cliff
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