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Old 02-28-2011, 09:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Basic 22R Propane F-Toy Wiring

I figured I would share this with you guys...My brother and I are building up our truck, and we recently switched to propane. We wanted to get rid of all the wiring and build a new harness. This is the diagram I came up with for a basic engine harness with a Ignition switch and push start. It's an easy setup not complicated at all. We plan on building an F-Toy in the future so everything we are doing to the truck we do with F-Toy in mind! So here it is...

Engine Harness

[/URL]

And I also built a headlight harness since we still want to use the headlights on the truck. You can use the same diagram if you were doing multiple lights/rock lights.

Headlight Harness

[/URL]
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Did ya'll use the stock ignition or convert to the GM style?
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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We are using the stock Toyota Ignition system...
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:40 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Your ignition flip switch will kill the engine but what would you do if the starter solenoid sticks on? I would place a master disco between the battery and all consumers. Also I like to switch ground on relays. If you think about it that way at worst case if the signal wire for the relay get shorted to ground, which happens, the consumer comes on instead of blowing the fuse. I like the diagrams but they are much easier if they flow down with all B+ at top and all B- at the bottom. Thanks for posting as wiring is a mystery to most folks.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Your ignition flip switch will kill the engine but what would you do if the starter solenoid sticks on? .
This is no different then how the Toyota or most manufactures do it. The only difference is the start switch is seperate from the ign.


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I would place a master disco between the battery and all consumers. Also I like to switch ground on relays. If you think about it that way at worst case if the signal wire for the relay get shorted to ground, which happens, the consumer comes on instead of blowing the fuse. .
This reasoning makes little sense to me. What happens if the 12v side of the relay coil gets shorted to ground? Still blows a fuse, but you know somethings wrong becuase the relay shut down. In your theory on the gound side shorting to ground(bypassing the switch), you now have a relay that won't shut off.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Your ignition flip switch will kill the engine but what would you do if the starter solenoid sticks on? I would place a master disco between the battery and all consumers. Also I like to switch ground on relays. If you think about it that way at worst case if the signal wire for the relay get shorted to ground, which happens, the consumer comes on instead of blowing the fuse. I like the diagrams but they are much easier if they flow down with all B+ at top and all B- at the bottom. Thanks for posting as wiring is a mystery to most folks.
We will have a master on/off switch...it's just not shown on the diagram. And are you saying you would put a switch for the ground? The last part of your post kinda confused me...
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:02 AM   #7 (permalink)
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We will have a master on/off switch...it's just not shown on the diagram. And are you saying you would put a switch for the ground? The last part of your post kinda confused me...
No just that when possible I like to have as few B+ wires running around my rig as possible. Instead of making and breaking the B+ to your relays I would make and break the B-. As dude stated above it would have a relay stuck on but my thinking is that it's better to have a component on all the time than to have one that does not work. I will add that's just my .02 and not the gospel according to anybody.

Glad you're using the master disco.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:24 AM   #8 (permalink)
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No just that when possible I like to have as few B+ wires running around my rig as possible. Instead of making and breaking the B+ to your relays I would make and break the B-. As dude stated above it would have a relay stuck on but my thinking is that it's better to have a component on all the time than to have one that does not work. I will add that's just my .02 and not the gospel according to anybody.

Glad you're using the master disco.
I'm sorry but you are still throwing me off with the "B+" / "B-" thing I don't know what you are referring to with that. Unless the ignition switch is flipped the circuits are closed and no power is flowing through any of the relays...
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:38 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I think this is going to be very helpful. Thank you.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:52 AM   #10 (permalink)
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As dude stated above it would have a relay stuck on but my thinking is that it's better to have a component on all the time than to have one that does not work. I will add that's just my .02 and not the gospel according to anybody.
I think it's better to fix the problem.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I think this is going to be very helpful. Thank you.
No problem dude...I love doing stuff like this. Plus I know the feeling of searching for answes to questions and not finding them. And visual aids always always helps out!
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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And visual aids always always helps out!
Yes visuals do help



Dont they.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'm sorry but you are still throwing me off with the "B+" / "B-" thing I don't know what you are referring to with that. Unless the ignition switch is flipped the circuits are closed and no power is flowing through any of the relays...
Let me see if can explain it. It's simple, just hard to type.
If you look at your relay, you have 12 volt power coming into the "30" pin. then you have the "87" pin that goes to what ever you want to turn on. The "86" and the "85" pins are what you actually switch (with a button or toggle) and you can do it either way. In your diagram you are hooking the toggle switch (or starter button) to the "85" pin which delivers 12 volt power to that pin and activated the relay. The "86 pin in your drawing just goes to ground.

As a suggestion. If you hook the "85" pin directly to 12 volt power all the time (run a jumper from "30"), then you can run the ground wire "86" through the toggle switch. Just ground one terminal of the toggle switch (or button) and run the other side to the "86" pin on the relay. This allows you to have a lesser amount of wires in your dash with power going through them which equals less chance of a short circuit. Worst case scenario, if a wire rubs through and grounds, it just turns on the relay instead of poping a fuse or frying a circuit.

I did ALOT of wiring on my rig this year for KOH, and after the fact I wish I would have thought to do this.

Does that make sence?
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Let me see if can explain it. It's simple, just hard to type.
If you look at your relay, you have 12 volt power coming into the "30" pin. then you have the "87" pin that goes to what ever you want to turn on. The "86" and the "85" pins are what you actually switch (with a button or toggle) and you can do it either way. In your diagram you are hooking the toggle switch (or starter button) to the "85" pin which delivers 12 volt power to that pin and activated the relay. The "86 pin in your drawing just goes to ground.

As a suggestion. If you hook the "85" pin directly to 12 volt power all the time (run a jumper from "30"), then you can run the ground wire "86" through the toggle switch. Just ground one terminal of the toggle switch (or button) and run the other side to the "86" pin on the relay. This allows you to have a lesser amount of wires in your dash with power going through them which equals less chance of a short circuit. Worst case scenario, if a wire rubs through and grounds, it just turns on the relay instead of poping a fuse or frying a circuit.

I did ALOT of wiring on my rig this year for KOH, and after the fact I wish I would have thought to do this.

Does that make sence?
Awwwwwwww......okay!!! Now it makes sense. Yeah I see what you are saying now. Hmmmm that is an interesting way of doing it. I would have never thought of that...I will have to take that into consideration. I'm not starting on the harness until tomorrow as I am still waiting on parts to be delivered!

Thanks a lot for explaining it John!
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:32 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I think it's better to fix the problem.
Thanks Dtoy.

No need for flip off bro like I said everyone is entitled to his opinion and way of doing things and I am simply sharing my views as you are welcome to do here. This isn't the Truck/4runner forum.

FWIW-
B+ = Battery positive or power
B- = Battery negative or ground
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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No need for flip off bro like I said everyone is entitled to his opinion and way of doing things and I am simply sharing my views as you are welcome to do here. This isn't the Truck/4runner forum.
It's still Pirate.= me being a smart-ars. I see nothing wrong with switching the relay coil ground, but just for the reason it would remain engaged if it shorts to ground, I don't. Vehical wiring been my first job which I'm still doing, going on 17 years. In my experience, the vehical layout has a bigger role in how things get wired. If it works for you, great.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Would it be a good idea to have a couple extra relays mounted beside the others just incase one goes out? Seen a buddy in his jeep have the electric fan stop working, and he just swaped it over to his relay for his lights.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:30 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Would it be a good idea to have a couple extra relays mounted beside the others just incase one goes out? Seen a buddy in his jeep have the electric fan stop working, and he just swaped it over to his relay for his lights.
I am using Relay plugs...so if a relay goes bad I can just change it...we ordered a lot of relays

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Old 03-02-2011, 03:02 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I am using Relay plugs...so if a relay goes bad I can just change it...we ordered a lot of relays
Got a source for those?
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Old 03-02-2011, 03:22 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Got a source for those?
Try delcity.com
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Old 03-02-2011, 08:32 AM   #21 (permalink)
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What's the "propane relay" for? My propane system uses an electric lock-off
(electro magnet) that doesn't really need a fuse. I put a 5 amp fuse to it for giggles. The only other lockoffs I've seen are vacuum ( forklift style)
Just curious.
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Old 03-02-2011, 09:16 AM   #22 (permalink)
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My propane system uses an electric lock-off
(electro magnet) that doesn't really need a fuse. I put a 5 amp fuse to it for giggles. The only other lockoffs I've seen are vacuum ( forklift style)
Just curious.
If you have a 12v circut, it's a good idea to have a fuse. What if you'r lock off shorts? With out a fuse, it would burn up wires till the connection was lost. Looks like to me the lock off is just a solenoid. Which is just a coil of wires that when connected to power, create a magnetic field.
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Old 03-02-2011, 10:50 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Try delcity.com
Delcity.net is a great place for wiring but I got everything local here in LA. Since my best friend owns an Automotive repair shop I made him open an account at one of the local Electrical Supply distributors and we got a bunch of stuff at a really low price!
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Old 03-02-2011, 11:56 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Would it be a good idea to have a couple extra relays mounted beside the others just incase one goes out? Seen a buddy in his jeep have the electric fan stop working, and he just swaped it over to his relay for his lights.
I have had fan relays fail also. that is why I put in a spare.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:45 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I have had fan relays fail also. that is why I put in a spare.
John if you parrallel those fan relays you can solve that problem. By parralleling the relays each one will take half of the current. Those are 30 amp relays max, not constant 30amp. The fans draw alot of current and will melt a 30 amp relay. Before last years KOH I rewired Bretts to use 2 fan relays because the one had melted.

Also what was said earlier about switching a relay with a b- or ground is the right way to do it. One problem with switching with pwr is if you have a 30 amp fuse on the relay input and use that pwr to go to the switch, if the small wire going to the switch were to ground out, it can melt before the 30 amp fuse will pop. You can solve the problem by putting extra fuses just on the switch pwr feed, but now you are making it more compicated than it needs to be.
The only time you would have to use pwr to switch the relay is if you are using rocker switchs with a light in them. They will only switch pwr if you want the light to work.
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