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Old 02-16-2017, 05:11 PM   #1076 (permalink)
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curious to know if the frame is twisting/seperating after removing the lower a-arm cross member and that is adding to the motor mount failure.
That actually happened to me about a year after I straight axled the 4runner.

Had a stress crack on my driver side motor mount. No hydro assist, ripped the steering box off the frame being pulled up from wh3 to meadow at fordyce after breaking my inner and outer front pass side shafts - when I got back to Chico I went to a friends shop to fix it and noticed a big stress crack on the motor mount. Had it rewelded and didn't have a problem after that....and ripped the steering box off the frame again a week later at rubicon lol.

So you are probably right - I never even thought about that when I first cut off the ifs.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:58 AM   #1077 (permalink)
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curious to know if the frame is twisting/seperating after removing the lower a-arm cross member and that is adding to the motor mount failure.
Very well could be. There is a lot of material in those IFS crossmembers.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:01 AM   #1078 (permalink)
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That actually happened to me about a year after I straight axled the 4runner.

Had a stress crack on my driver side motor mount. No hydro assist, ripped the steering box off the frame being pulled up from wh3 to meadow at fordyce after breaking my inner and outer front pass side shafts - when I got back to Chico I went to a friends shop to fix it and noticed a big stress crack on the motor mount. Had it rewelded and didn't have a problem after that....and ripped the steering box off the frame again a week later at rubicon lol.

So you are probably right - I never even thought about that when I first cut off the ifs.
You ripped the box off the frame because you didn't have hydro assist Happened to me in my old truck on Rubicon once, no hydro assist either.

Problem with the stock mounts is rubber just degrades over time and there are a thousand different reasons what would make them fail, way too many variables to nail down a specific reason. Surely beating on them doesn't help the situation either.
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Old 02-17-2017, 06:13 PM   #1079 (permalink)
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You ripped the box off the frame because you didn't have hydro assist Happened to me in my old truck on Rubicon once, no hydro assist either.

Problem with the stock mounts is rubber just degrades over time and there are a thousand different reasons what would make them fail, way too many variables to nail down a specific reason. Surely beating on them doesn't help the situation either.
LOL I know I ripped it off because of no assist, but there's a lot of frame flex anyway. Obviously rebuilding the runner now, but ended up wrapping 1/4" around the frame to brace, on top of the 3/16" plate already on there to get the frame to stop moving. But yeah, that was 100% my fault
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Old 02-22-2017, 07:52 AM   #1080 (permalink)
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New motor mounts showed up yesterday. Pretty excited to get these installed. I tested the durometer of some generic poly bushings I had laying around and the standard black bushings I got from Ruff Stuff were around 78A. Also tested durometer on red poly bushings I got to replace the Chevy spring bushings which ended up around 88A. These new motor mount bushings, while still polyurethane, are 68A and are noticeably softer than all the other bushings I have. Chart for reference

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Old 02-22-2017, 10:44 AM   #1081 (permalink)
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New motor mounts showed up yesterday. Pretty excited to get these installed. I tested the durometer of some generic poly bushings I had laying around and the standard black bushings I got from Ruff Stuff were around 78A. Also tested durometer on red poly bushings I got to replace the Chevy spring bushings which ended up around 88A. These new motor mount bushings, while still polyurethane, are 68A and are noticeably softer than all the other bushings I have. Chart for reference


I have always heard and red that the density is different and each color has a different hardness. Have you found that to be true? Where did you source the softer urethane? I have basically the same spring eye bushing mounts for several drivetrains and am looking to soften them up.


Got your doubler ordered yet? I just got off the phone with kyle at northwest on their 205 titan black box, need to save a couple more pennies (benjamins to be honest)
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:08 AM   #1082 (permalink)
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I have always heard and red that the density is different and each color has a different hardness. Have you found that to be true? Where did you source the softer urethane? I have basically the same spring eye bushing mounts for several drivetrains and am looking to soften them up.


Got your doubler ordered yet? I just got off the phone with kyle at northwest on their 205 titan black box, need to save a couple more pennies (benjamins to be honest)
Different colors don't mean anything. My Energy leaf spring bushings are red at 88A hardness and the red motor mounts are 68A. That being said, the shades of red are different. The motor mounts look more clear red than the leaf spring bushings, leaf spring bushings are more of a solid red. I can try and take a pic later. Maybe dependent on how much silicone? they put in them? No idea

So far I haven't found any cylindrical bushings that will fit 1.75" DOM and are made of a soft polyurethane. Even the 1.5" OD rubber bushings I ordered a while back are 10A harder than the motor mounts I just got. I only assumed Energy did their homework and developed a product (Hyperflex polyurethane) that is comfortable for street but stronger than rubber. Heres the link for them.

Motor Mount | 1976-1986 Jeep CJ7 | Energy Suspension

No doubler yet. Brian hasn't setup pre orders, but when he does I'll be on it After looking at it, I could do a NWF blackbox with a trans adapter from AA but no one makes an adapter to go back to the stock tcase. Didn't realize almost all of that could be purchased already
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:00 PM   #1083 (permalink)
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somewhere in here I lost track you were going to try the post type mount. Is there some sort of mechanical connection between the stud and base plate that is isolated but would prevent complete failure?

As far as trans, transfer, engine adapters it seems endless the combinations possible when you include some of the more manufacturer specific companies. I enjoy looking thru all the lists of adapters there is always some new combination that comes to light.
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:55 PM   #1084 (permalink)
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somewhere in here I lost track you were going to try the post type mount. Is there some sort of mechanical connection between the stud and base plate that is isolated but would prevent complete failure?

As far as trans, transfer, engine adapters it seems endless the combinations possible when you include some of the more manufacturer specific companies. I enjoy looking thru all the lists of adapters there is always some new combination that comes to light.
Yeah this is in that link I posted, there is a mechanical failsafe built in.

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Old 02-22-2017, 07:02 PM   #1085 (permalink)
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I have always heard and red that the density is different and each color has a different hardness. Have you found that to be true? Where did you source the softer urethane? I have basically the same spring eye bushing mounts for several drivetrains and am looking to soften them up.
Density only varies slightly with changes in urethane durometer. For example, a 95A urethane that we pour has a specific gravity of 1.07, while another similar urethane at 82A has a specific gravity of 1.04.

Urethane is a clear/amber liquid and is dyed to whatever color the manufacturer wants. Color may indicate durometer, but in no way does color dictate durometer.

Several companies make urethane bushings. Companies like Energy Suspension, Daystar products, Prothane, etc. have the high volume commercial manufacturing market, while companies like Epic Polymer and other custom manufacturers service industrial markets and offer custom urethane bushings.

Speaking to the use of motor mounts vs suspension bushings for your drivetrain bushings, the there is a difference between vibrations from an engine and from your suspension. One difference is the frequency and consistency of the vibrations, and the other is the stiffness required by the application. Ideally a suspension bushing will have minimal radial flex (think worn out track bar contributing to death wobble) while a motor mount is designed to flex as much as possibly (within a given range of allowable deflection).

My point is this: You may want to look into a different style of drivetrain mount if your current mounts are too stiff. Or design your crossmembers to utilize the flexibility of the mounts that you are currently using.
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Old 02-22-2017, 08:20 PM   #1086 (permalink)
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This POS for sale yet?
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Old 02-23-2017, 07:46 AM   #1087 (permalink)
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Speaking to the use of motor mounts vs suspension bushings for your drivetrain bushings, the there is a difference between vibrations from an engine and from your suspension. One difference is the frequency and consistency of the vibrations, and the other is the stiffness required by the application. Ideally a suspension bushing will have minimal radial flex (think worn out track bar contributing to death wobble) while a motor mount is designed to flex as much as possibly (within a given range of allowable deflection).

My point is this: You may want to look into a different style of drivetrain mount if your current mounts are too stiff. Or design your crossmembers to utilize the flexibility of the mounts that you are currently using.
This was my thought process for choosing the Energy motor mounts I did. An engineered piece that does what its intended to do, dampen engine vibration. I highly doubt Trail Gear did any research on what material would be best for their motor mounts

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This POS for sale yet?
Everything is always for sale! The question is, can you afford it?
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Old 02-25-2017, 09:00 PM   #1088 (permalink)
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This POS for sale yet?
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Everything is always for sale! The question is, can you afford it?
Haha, I actually asked him the same thing a cpl weeks ago after I sold my last rig and had some cash burning a hole...I couldn't afford it Wish I could've, awesome build!!
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Old 02-27-2017, 07:45 AM   #1089 (permalink)
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Finally got around to installing the trans cooler I got for Christmas Its a Derale 13950. Attaches nicely to the top of the core support via sheet metal screws and I think I'll have to make a new aluminum bracket for the bottom mount to also bolt to the core support. Super tight in there with all the AC lines, winch and horns. I moved one horn to the driver side and it all fits together nice. Also had to shave the grill down 1/2" or so. Fits with a finger gap all around and now I can BARELY get the grill in and out. Literally can't fit much more back there.

One thing I'm curious about others opinions on, should I wire the fan up with the thermostat switch it came with or put it on a switch I can control? I'm tempted to wire it up to a switch I can control but the ease of the temp switch sounds nice too. I guess what it comes down to is reliability, if I lost a temp switch somewhere, I'd be SOL unless I had a spare. A switch I control seems a bit more reliable. Thoughts?
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Old 02-27-2017, 08:43 AM   #1090 (permalink)
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Id do both for the ability to turn the fan completely off for water crossings or mud, I've destroyed several fans and fan clutches that way.

If temp sensor failed you could just eliminated it and wire straight to the switch. If you were strategic with your connectors you could have it all be plug and play too.

I wouldn't want to ditch the temp sensor cause i know id probably leave the truck idling and forget to turn the fan on
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:21 AM   #1091 (permalink)
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Id do both for the ability to turn the fan completely off for water crossings or mud, I've destroyed several fans and fan clutches that way.

If temp sensor failed you could just eliminated it and wire straight to the switch. If you were strategic with your connectors you could have it all be plug and play too.

I wouldn't want to ditch the temp sensor cause i know id probably leave the truck idling and forget to turn the fan on
So you're saying instead of wiring the relay directly into the fan, it gets wired into the temp switch? So the switch in the cab controls the relay which controls power to the temp switch? I think I'm following, just trying to make sense of it in my electrically dumb head
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:38 AM   #1092 (permalink)
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Yeah sort of except you wouldn't want the load of the fan traveling through the switch. It should be on the low amp side interrupting the signal the temp sensor sends to the relay.
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Old 02-27-2017, 11:08 AM   #1093 (permalink)
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Yeah sort of except you wouldn't want the load of the fan traveling through the switch. It should be on the low amp side interrupting the signal the temp sensor sends to the relay.
Got it, thanks! So the switch should only be used if the temp switch fails, and the switch should override the temp switch in any situation, right?
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Old 02-27-2017, 01:03 PM   #1094 (permalink)
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Got it, thanks! So the switch should only be used if the temp switch fails, and the switch should override the temp switch in any situation, right?
You could do it that way too but what I was thinking is with the in-cab switch in the on position the temp sensor would be turning the fan on/off as needed. Turning the switch off would be like manual override to make sure the fan doesn't run when its under water or something. Then if the temp sensor fails you can just cut it out and ground the switch.

Heres a diagram to do it the way you just described.
https://www.bmw2002faq.com/applicati...3af259e129e379

To do it the way I described you'd put your manual override switch inline with the temp sensor. It depends on if you want the over ride switch to make the fan run or to make sure it doesn't run.
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Old 02-27-2017, 02:29 PM   #1095 (permalink)
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You could do it that way too but what I was thinking is with the in-cab switch on the temp sensor would be turning the fan on/off as needed. Turning the switch off would be like manual override to make sure the fan doesn't run when its under water or something. Then if the temp sensor fails you can just cut it out and ground the switch.

Heres a diagram to do it the way you just described.
https://www.bmw2002faq.com/applicati...3af259e129e379

To do it the way I described you'd put your manual override switch inline with the temp sensor. It depends on if you want the over ride switch to make the fan run or to make sure it doesn't run.
My buddy drew this one up for me.
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:44 PM   #1096 (permalink)
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That would work, but you are running power to the fan through the temp sender. Not sure if the temp sender can handle the load??

I think you should do as surftaco is mentioning: use the in-cab switch as the ON/OFF for the fan.

You might consider putting 12v IGN to relay 85, use 87a to put power to the temp switch, and not use 87. This would allow you to shut the fan off with the switch and run all high draw circuits through the relay.

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Old 02-27-2017, 05:40 PM   #1097 (permalink)
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That would work, but you are running power to the fan through the temp sender. Not sure if the temp sender can handle the load??

I think you should do as surftaco is mentioning: use the in-cab switch as the ON/OFF for the fan.

You might consider putting 12v IGN to relay 85, use 87a to put power to the temp switch, and not use 87. This would allow you to shut the fan off with the switch and run all high draw circuits through the relay.
I need to take a course on this shit. I know the temp switch can handle 15A and the fan draws 4.8A or so. It came with the fan kit I got so I assume it should all work as they engineered it. Relay is a 20/30A Bosch with this diagram on the side, so we're all on the same page. I guess the only downside to surftacos way of wiring it is I'll have to flick the cab switch every time I get in the truck. I really don't go through THAT deep of water all that often anyway so I don't think that feature will be used much
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Old 02-27-2017, 05:53 PM   #1098 (permalink)
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If you wire it the way I outlined, you wouldn't have to flip the switch at all when you get in. the switch would only be used to turn OFF the fan.

You could also wire in a basic temp sensor bypass switch (additional) from the "line" side of the temp sensor (12v) to the "load" side (fan side), and keep it off normally so the temp sensor does its job, if you wanted to have an easy way to turn ON the fan without the temp sensor if you think it failed...

Just throwing out ideas for ya.

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Old 02-27-2017, 06:03 PM   #1099 (permalink)
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Do you need the fan? Just curious.
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Old 02-27-2017, 06:07 PM   #1100 (permalink)
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It's a toyota. It needs the extra 1hp of boost the fan gives him on the freeway.
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