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Old 01-08-2020, 06:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Who is running a taco box with the auto a340f?
I have read that the torque converter acts as a reduction source of its own. [Estimated at 1.7-2.0 reduction?, big mike actually states it being 2-2.7 depending on tranny temp and what atf fluid used]
My question is with the taco box and the auto, are you guys running 4.7 and2.57 or are you guys going 2.28 and2.57?
Now i know that with running the 2.28 youve really kinda only got your low, or double low gears, almost like having a 3 speed setup as they are so close to each other, instead of the true 4 speed with the 4.7s But at the same time i feel like 4.7 and 2.57 is way to low. If you go off what big mike has posted of the torque converter being as high as 2.7 reduction, bouble low with 4.7 would be a ratio of 483:1. Thats more than twice as low as my gear drive duals with 4.7s mated to my w56. I never see needing that low of gearing.? What are you guys running? And anyone having issues with all the extra torque of the 4.7 in the front box having to go through the rear case? Seeing more broken output shafts possibly?

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Old 01-08-2020, 09:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Fail!
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Care to explain the fail?
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Old 01-10-2020, 01:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Your usual W56 has a 3.95:1 first gear, and if you're lucky to find an R151 you have a 4.31:1 first gear. Nobody has any issue running a 2.28/4.7 combo behind those.

An A340 has a 2.80:1 first gear. Torque Converter torque multiplication is variable as the converter slips from idle to stall speed, which is like 2200RPM for a stock converter. So it may start out at 2:1ish but quickly goes to 1:1 as the revs hit 2200rpm. So as far as the gear ratios go, I'd run a 4.7 crawl box.

Now as far as the strength of the chain-drive t-case input shaft receiving torque from the 4.7 crawl box, I'm not sure about that. As well as the strength of the output shaft receiving 4.7x2.57 multiplied torque.

I'm not sure why you want to run that setup though... up here, chain-drive cases get thrown in the scrap pile and people swap to a proper 2.28x4.7 gear drive setup. Or a single 4.7 case if you're keeping it short.
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Old 01-10-2020, 07:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Interesting. Big mike makes it sound like the torque converter was always acting like a reduction box (except in decents)
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/....573748/page-2

I havent talked to or found anyone having problems with the chain cases on their own. Or really running the tacobox with the 4.7 in that matter.i wouldnt have to deal with doing something with the exhaust staying drivers drop.

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Old 01-10-2020, 08:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have a 3.4, auto, 4.7 crawlbox, factory tcase, 5.38s on 40s. Works good. Can always find the right gear for wheel speed or super slow crawling.
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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How is your double low with the 4.7 and 2.57? Is it actually usefull or is it ridiculously slow?
The torque converter is whats throwing me off. I have 4.7 and 2.28 in my 4runner and its already borderline to slow. If the torque converter really is a 2x reduction, i cant imagine ever using it haha

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Old 01-10-2020, 11:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xdaltonx View Post
How is your double low with the 4.7 and 2.57? Is it actually usefull or is it ridiculously slow?
The torque converter is whats throwing me off. I have 4.7 and 2.28 in my 4runner and its already borderline to slow. If the torque converter really is a 2x reduction, i cant imagine ever using it haha
Hereís a short clip of everything in low.

https://youtu.be/OuQuhkSaF-s

And soup bowl same thing. Definitely useful if you really want to crawl for control.

https://youtu.be/MkTY8_CzA_s
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Old 01-11-2020, 08:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
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That looks comparable to my dual gear cases with 4.7.Definitely not twice as low as them like they were making it seam in that thread i linked.
Thank you for that.
You been running that setup for a while? Any issues with it at all?
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:38 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by xdaltonx View Post
That looks comparable to my dual gear cases with 4.7.Definitely not twice as low as them like they were making it seam in that thread i linked.
Thank you for that.
You been running that setup for a while? Any issues with it at all?
Over a year and a half now on the tcases. For the first half of that I had 35s and 4.10s and IFS. Now with 5.38s and 40s itís a little bit lower which I like. Itís not so low that it drives through the brakes. No issue other than using crappy trail gear parts. Go Marlin for sure.
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Old 01-11-2020, 10:33 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Yea ill either use marlins tacobox, or go inchworm. Tg just lacks in quality in my experience, and sucks they own allpro as well now. I see their quality dropping as well.
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Old 01-11-2020, 03:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by xdaltonx View Post
Yea ill either use marlins tacobox, or go inchworm. Tg just lacks in quality in my experience, and sucks they own allpro as well now. I see their quality dropping as well.
They own inchworm also
Better order marlin a year in advance if you plan on getting products worth having as the good shit is back ordered every time I call!
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Old 01-11-2020, 04:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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IIRC the 340f is related to the AW4.

Convert the tail housing and run an NWF box, d300, atlas, 4 spd atlas, etc. Itll be the same, possibly less expensive, and better.
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Old 01-11-2020, 05:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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They own inchworm also<a href="https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Confused" >:-)</a><a href="https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/smilies/pissed.gif" border="0" alt="" title="mad3" >:-)</a>
Better order marlin a year in advance if you plan on getting products worth having as the good shit is back ordered every time I call!
<a href="https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/smilies/pissed.gif" border="0" alt="" title="mad3" >:-)</a>[/QUOTE]

I spoke with trevor at marlin on Wednesday, and he said inchworm was not part of the trailgear purchasing lowrange, and inchworm is working on getting back in business on his own. And marlin may start offering their tacobox with the inchworm adapter due to the lead times of getting their own adapters.


As far as going atlas, its an option for the a340f, but to go 4speed your looking at almost 5k vs the 2500 of the tacobox. And they are so damn big, fitting them up in the frame rails starts to become quite the job.
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:57 AM   #15 (permalink)
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You will only have slower wheelspeed during the time the TC is slipping, which is from idle to stall speed (2200rpm for a Toyota TC). That's just the same as slipping the clutch on a manual trans truck - in the case of the auto, you'll overheat your trans fluid instead of smoking the clutch.

And it's an accepted fact that the TC Torque Multiplication varies from the maximum at idle, about 2:1 for a Toyota TC, to none at stall speed.

Read this, it's a pretty good description: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp...ue-converters/

And a little more depth:
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/0808...ue-converters/

Inchworm still exists as an entity, but with no website and no product available I'm not sure they would be my first option. And Marlin is capable of making a good product, but good luck with availability.

Are you set on keeping your chain-drive case? Are you staying IFS? What are the plan and goals for your truck?
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:26 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Yotota, you say Inchworm still exists as an entity..
Yes the corporation was sold\merged\aquired by lowrange., Then bought out ultimately by t.g.
Is that what you mean?
Or is there more to the story?
T.g. Quit supporting the "lefty\verso"
And marlins version... Well M.C.!!!!

For the few of us stuck with one (mine sux Yes others love em) do you have some little known knowledge to share?
For the op
It seems the biggest issue with doubling a taco is putting the 4.7 in front of the t case...
For those with traditional duals in the hilux platform it goes against the grain somewhat.
As we can use the reduction box as an underdrive \ direct drive without a twin stick
t case (think bumper to bumper traffic)
without stressing the input ,from what I have read no one is destroying chain cases (the reason the lefty was prototyped more or less) and the inputs seem to hold up to the 4.7 input torque.
All the hype on t.c. "Magic torque" (until lockup is achieved) just adds to the benefits or goes out the window at lockup. Topic for another thread.
All in all any doubled rig is GOOD.
If I hit the lottery I am going 4 Gear atlas (after waiting way to long for delivery!)
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:44 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I like this thread, I am a fan of super low range and that might because I am out wheeling a heavy pig of a SAS H3 with a bunch of first gen Toyotas with dual cases and they work well. Rapier, did you use the throttle much at all or were you under 1200 or so rpm crawling the soup bowl?

I am not trying to dereail this thread but I have always wondered if you could reap both the benefits of an auto and manual. The benefits of an auto is some slip and "give" in the drivetrain when bumping obstacles hard but when crawling I have seen the benefit of that direct drive the manual gives. If the auto can handle the stress if you locked your TC at super low RPM crawling would that give it that manual direct drive type feel? It would drive through the brakes but you could use a TCC lock up switch like a clutch, on and off.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:20 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Yotota, you say Inchworm still exists as an entity..
Yes the corporation was sold\merged\aquired by lowrange., Then bought out ultimately by t.g.
Is that what you mean?
Or is there more to the story?
T.g. Quit supporting the "lefty\verso"
And marlins version... Well M.C.!!!!
I could be mistaken, but I poked around a bit and it looks like the business entity may still exist in California. Unless someone else was operating under the same name.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:29 AM   #19 (permalink)
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If the auto can handle the stress if you locked your TC at super low RPM crawling would that give it that manual direct drive type feel? It would drive through the brakes but you could use a TCC lock up switch like a clutch, on and off.
Yes and no...

When the TC is slipping, there's a difference in speed between the input and output RPM. The only time you can safely lock up a TC (that has a lockup function) is when the RPMs are the same... Which is above the stall speed. So yeah, once you get the RPMs above stall speed you can lock up the TC and have complete control over the drivetrain. You'd have to be careful to not stall the engine but it would be fun to try.

I know that you could easily wire in a lockup switch on a Jeep's AW4 trans, I never looked into this for Yotas but considering an A340 is virtually the same internals I bet it can be done. A quick bit of Google search shows that something similar may work for your 4L60e. Give 'er a try and let us know!

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Old 01-13-2020, 10:33 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Ive got a better understanding of how the tc works now and i get the varying in reduction from it. It essentially becomes a 1:1 at stall speed. I wasnt understanding that part at first.
Ill be doing a 4wu 3 link. Its gonna be my crawler. I was planning on keeping the chain case to keep driver drop and not deal with the exhaust thats on the passenger side.
As for gearing my thought was go 2.28 in reduction box to keep from having the extra torque running through the chain case. Figure in double low itd be close to my manual in 4.7..
If i hate it i could always full the reduction box and add 4.7s later.
I actually spoke with jim from inchworm last wednesday, and he is working on getting some distributors to start selling again.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:07 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I could be mistaken, but I poked around a bit and it looks like the business entity may still exist in California. Unless someone else was operating under the same name.
That's most likely t.g. In fresno...
Cuz Jim went back east\ mid west.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Ive got a better understanding of how the tc works now and i get the varying in reduction from it. It essentially becomes a 1:1 at stall speed. I wasnt understanding that part at first.
Ill be doing a 4wu 3 link. Its gonna be my crawler. I was planning on keeping the chain case to keep driver drop and not deal with the exhaust thats on the passenger side.
As for gearing my thought was go 2.28 in reduction box to keep from having the extra torque running through the chain case. Figure in double low itd be close to my manual in 4.7..
If i hate it i could always full the reduction box and add 4.7s later.
I actually spoke with jim from inchworm last wednesday, and he is working on getting some distributors to start selling again.
No shitt?????
Care to elaborate?
That's sweet.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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On which part? The inchworm?
I had talked to trevor at marlin crawler who said they may start offering the tacobox with the inchworm adapters, as marlin is out of stock on theirs and doesnt have an eta of them being back in stock. So i figured if they were gonna do that why not try to go through inchworm directly. I just looked up inchworm and found their number online, called it and jim answered. Talked a minute about what i was looking to do. And he asked for my email. Said he was looking to get some distributor lined up as he wasnt sure he wanted to do direct sales. And that he would email me some more info. That was wednesday the 8th. I havent heard anything back yet though.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Funny how every rig but a Toyota does everything with just 4:1, then you come in here and you NEED 250:1 or you can't wheel

The thing I don't like about the 4.7 taco box is that the 4.7 is such a useful gear and I wouldn't want to be using just the 4.7 with the rear in low all the time.

I really think the 5.88:1 will be plenty. Even the stock low in our 96 4runner is pretty good for most things.

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Old 01-13-2020, 04:28 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Funny how every rig but a Toyota does everything with just 4:1, then you come in here and you NEED 250:1 or you can't wheel <a href="https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0" alt="" title="flipoff2" >:-)</a>

The thing I don't like about the 4.7 taco box is that the 4.7 is such a useful gear and I wouldn't want to be using just the 4.7 with the rear in low all the time.

I really think the 5.88:1 will be plenty. Even the stock low in our 96 4runner is pretty good for most things.
And thats what im leaning towards. Ill have my stock low 2.57, then i can double down with the 2.28 if needed. If i feel i need more ill regear to the 4.7.
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