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Old 01-29-2010, 01:58 PM   #51 (permalink)
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right but what you have there is just a 2" gap between the spring and the preload ring - really not a good idea imo.

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He's right, think about this Bob....... if the preload is zero (coil adjuster is bottomed out with no threads exposed) then you put a 2" shorter spring in the place of the top spring, all you will do is lower the truck 2".

I have 4" of threads exposed above my top adjuster because nobody made springs longer than 16" when I built my truck, so I'm running 2 16" springs on a 17" coilover with the adjuster spun down....... your's is the opposite right now.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:08 PM   #52 (permalink)
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no center stop ring - if you see one it a pic it just wasn't pulled off yet.

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Looking at the pics again......... you are running dual rate's with a center stop ring........... so my theory and my setup doesn't apply, as I have no center stop on mine, the 2 springs just ride on top of each other with the coil separator between them......... it'd work on mine.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:11 PM   #53 (permalink)
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shorter upper springs with tenders maybe...?

build looks good btw
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:14 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I'm gona try and explain how I see it a little better-
shock being fully extended - preload ring on top (touching top of spring), no preload added.
Taking a 2" shorter spring and putting the preload ring on the top touching the second spring (2" lower) no preload will not drop the truck 2".

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He's right, think about this Bob....... if the preload is zero (coil adjuster is bottomed out with no threads exposed) then you put a 2" shorter spring in the place of the top spring, all you will do is lower the truck 2".

I have 4" of threads exposed above my top adjuster because nobody made springs longer than 16" when I built my truck, so I'm running 2 16" springs on a 17" coilover with the adjuster spun down....... your's is the opposite right now.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:25 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I'm gona try and explain how I see it a little better-
shock being fully extended - preload ring on top (touching top of spring), no preload added.
Taking a 2" shorter spring and putting the preload ring on the top touching the second spring (2" lower) no preload will not drop the truck 2".
What you're saying makes sense......... and mine was the same way even with the adjuster torqued down, until I added a tender coil to the setup to keep the top spring from dropping off the ring when it extended. Tender coil takes up 1/2' -3/4" of space but will allow 5-6" more travel without unseating the top coil.
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Old 01-29-2010, 03:26 PM   #56 (permalink)
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A 2" shorter spring stack of the same rate will definitely drop the truck 2".

Yes, a 350lbs/in spring compressed 2.75" means you have about 962lbs on that corner.

Your 250lbs/in spring must have compressed about 3.85".

So your combined compression is 6.6" from free height. And we still haven't talked about how long the springs are.

Your rig is sitting on the springs. Whether you have two 16" springs or a 16 and a 14, they will both compress 6.6" at your weight and that rate. The shorter stack will just be two inches shorter at free height AND with the rig sitting on them. One will start out at 32" and go to 25.4 and the other will start at 30 and go to 23.4. Your rig will sit 2" lower with the shorter springs.
(I'm ignoring all the other hardware for simplicity).

Does that help?
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:49 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Doesn't help me any...
Again - 16" spring length
You're still thinking about this wrong
Do you agree a 14" 250lb spring will sag the same as a 16" 250lb spring?
If so then we agree.
Now as far as wanting to add a 2" space from the top of the spring to the pre-load ring - thanks but I'll pass for now.


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A 2" shorter spring stack of the same rate will definitely drop the truck 2".

Yes, a 350lbs/in spring compressed 2.75" means you have about 962lbs on that corner.

Your 250lbs/in spring must have compressed about 3.85".

So your combined compression is 6.6" from free height. And we still haven't talked about how long the springs are.

Your rig is sitting on the springs. Whether you have two 16" springs or a 16 and a 14, they will both compress 6.6" at your weight and that rate. The shorter stack will just be two inches shorter at free height AND with the rig sitting on them. One will start out at 32" and go to 25.4 and the other will start at 30 and go to 23.4. Your rig will sit 2" lower with the shorter springs.
(I'm ignoring all the other hardware for simplicity).

Does that help?
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:45 AM   #58 (permalink)
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time for paint -
here is the NON ventitalted both -


The painting Nut jobs -




High as kites -










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Old 02-01-2010, 07:45 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:54 AM   #60 (permalink)
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VERY nice
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:24 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Thanks - he wanted to paint it green but someone already did that

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VERY nice
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:30 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Thanks - he wanted to paint it green but someone already did that
That guy's cool! .......... oh wait, you meant Peps huh?
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:32 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:48 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Hey Pep you plan on making it to azrocks? Hope to have this thing done by then - we'll see how that pans out -

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Old 02-01-2010, 12:52 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Hey Pep you plan on making it to azrocks? Hope to have this thing done by then - we'll see how that pans out -
Tell sleepy to get off his ass and get it done!
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:56 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Hey Pep you plan on making it to azrocks? Hope to have this thing done by then - we'll see how that pans out -
Definately dude . . . Really looking forward to seeing it done for sure
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:37 PM   #67 (permalink)
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me too just hope we can get it done in time....

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Definately dude . . . Really looking forward to seeing it done for sure
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:21 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Doesn't help me any...
Again - 16" spring length
You're still thinking about this wrong
Do you agree a 14" 250lb spring will sag the same as a 16" 250lb spring?
If so then we agree.
Now as far as wanting to add a 2" space from the top of the spring to the pre-load ring - thanks but I'll pass for now.
Yes, the shorter spring will be shorter.

You said you wanted to know how to make the rig 2" lower. A 2" shorter spring is the simplest way. And it changes nothing but the height.


If you want to make it 2" shorter by changing the rate, then that's pretty easy too (but it totally changes how your rig will ride): You would seek a rate that brought the springs down 2" shorter than what you have now

Your current rate is 250/350=146lbs/in
It compressed 6.6" with 925lbs on it.
You want a rate that compresses 8.6" instead, so with 925lbs on it that would be 108lbs/in.

There are lots of ways to achieve that. Putting a 150lb spring on top would give you 105lbs/in.
Or if you wanted to keep the same step up ratio, 175/300 would be fairly close.

Like I said though- I wouldn't recommend lowering the spring rate (making your rig more slinky) just to get a certain ride height. Lowering your spring rate by 26% just to get your rig lower doesn't make much sense to me.

You should choose the rate by how you want it to ride and handle. Not by how tall it is.
That's the whole point of Billavista's coilover bible article and selecting a Fn (natural suspension frequency). Selecting a Fn is a fancy way of proportionally matching the spring rate to the rig weight, not selecting a spring rate to get a certain ride height and hoping it will ride like you want it to.


Also FWIW- your front corner weight is apparently more than my full bodied 3.4L 4runner...
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:51 PM   #69 (permalink)
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what type of paint did you guys use? rattle cans or paint gun? I really like where this thing is going.
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:16 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Thanks Eric - good stuuf
Yea not sure I calculated the corner weight right.
Because we haven't driven it I don't now how we are gona be or what it will ride like so i have to shoot for something - not wanting a high CG a wanted to set it up for a certain ride height. Again w/o knowing I have to start somewhere. But I was thinking of going with the 150/350 as a starter.
How do I cal corner weight? I must have done something wrong - this rig is pretty light.


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Yes, the shorter spring will be shorter.

You said you wanted to know how to make the rig 2" lower. A 2" shorter spring is the simplest way. And it changes nothing but the height.


If you want to make it 2" shorter by changing the rate, then that's pretty easy too (but it totally changes how your rig will ride): You would seek a rate that brought the springs down 2" shorter than what you have now

Your current rate is 250/350=146lbs/in
It compressed 6.6" with 925lbs on it.
You want a rate that compresses 8.6" instead, so with 925lbs on it that would be 108lbs/in.

There are lots of ways to achieve that. Putting a 150lb spring on top would give you 105lbs/in.
Or if you wanted to keep the same step up ratio, 175/300 would be fairly close.

Like I said though- I wouldn't recommend lowering the spring rate (making your rig more slinky) just to get a certain ride height. Lowering your spring rate by 26% just to get your rig lower doesn't make much sense to me.

You should choose the rate by how you want it to ride and handle. Not by how tall it is.
That's the whole point of Billavista's coilover bible article and selecting a Fn (natural suspension frequency). Selecting a Fn is a fancy way of proportionally matching the spring rate to the rig weight, not selecting a spring rate to get a certain ride height and hoping it will ride like you want it to.


Also FWIW- your front corner weight is apparently more than my full bodied 3.4L 4runner...
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:21 PM   #71 (permalink)
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he got a one step ppg product

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what type of paint did you guys use? rattle cans or paint gun? I really like where this thing is going.
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:48 PM   #72 (permalink)
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How do I cal corner weight? I must have done something wrong - this rig is pretty light.
Just spring rate multiplied by inches traveled.
I'd measure each spring individually and make the calcs and get an average. Bounce it up and down to make sure its settled as much as possible too. And if the rear isn't sitting on its axle, make sure you support it over the axle or it will shift the weight.

My rig was like 725 on the pass. side and 900 on the drivers. Taco's are notoriously heavy on the drivers side.


Nitrogen charge plays into it a bit too. If they're not charged now, it will add an inch or so to the height when they are charged. It doesn't add much to the spring rate, but it does take a significant amount of weight off the springs and may need to be taken into consideration on a lighter rig.

But you have to start somewhere, and your rig is going to change before its said and done. Once it is done and you have a better baseline, its easier to pick stuff (tune) for what you actually want.
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:05 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Ok - is that at zero preload?


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Just spring rate multiplied by inches traveled.
I'd measure each spring individually and make the calcs and get an average. Bounce it up and down to make sure its settled as much as possible too. And if the rear isn't sitting on its axle, make sure you support it over the axle or it will shift the weight.

My rig was like 725 on the pass. side and 900 on the drivers. Taco's are notoriously heavy on the drivers side.


Nitrogen charge plays into it a bit too. If they're not charged now, it will add an inch or so to the height when they are charged. It doesn't add much to the spring rate, but it does take a significant amount of weight off the springs and may need to be taken into consideration on a lighter rig.

But you have to start somewhere, and your rig is going to change before its said and done. Once it is done and you have a better baseline, its easier to pick stuff (tune) for what you actually want.
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:15 PM   #74 (permalink)
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I would say yes "zero preload," but what do you mean by preload? Unless your springs are compressed when the shocks are fully extended (not usually the case), they don't have any preload. The adjusters up top aren't preload, unless like I said, they compress the springs when there is no weight on them. Even if they did, it doesn't really mean anything at all. They simply adjust ride height.

Anyway, regardless of preload, rate times inches the spring has traveled/compressed from its FREE height (ie, holding a bare spring in your hand), equals the corner weight since your shocks are basically vertical.
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:48 PM   #75 (permalink)
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This truck is SICK. I love it. I couldn't find it, but what are the plans for the front? Leaving it open? Dove nose stock front? Custom hood? Can't wait to see.
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