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Old 02-23-2016, 11:34 AM   #1 (permalink)
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A340 trans question

I'm running this auto in my FToy with an Inchworm adapter to the gear drive Toy Tcase. I have the tcase out for a rebuild (output shaft, etc.), and while looking at the trans I'm wondering if I can make some improvements to help some issues I've had.

When I stand the rig up pretty high on an obstacle the trans fluid drains to the back away from the pickup and will eventually quit pulling. I have already made some block-off plates in the front section of the trans, but they don't block it off 100%. Considering that this tail section is empty and the Tcase doesn't share fluid with the trans I don't see why I need fluid back here at all. Simply filling the void takes up room that the fluid normally would when on an incline. Have any of you guys filled this section up with something to displace the fluid that wants to drain back here when you're on a steep incline? Anybody done this, or know why I shouldn't?






USEFUL RESPONSE LATER ON THAT SUMMARIZES QUESTION AND ANSWER...
Quote:
Originally Posted by VooDoo View Post
I have zero issues with my A340H/inchworm/single 4.7 at steep angles.

I did three things to fix the issue:

1. flat plate in place of rear pan.

2. made a "Plug" to fill the cavity left in the tail housing. I used a piece of tubing (6" or 8" in think. its been in there for years) capped the ends and put a smaller tube in the center for the output shaft. It shaped like a big metal roll of toilet paper. BTW I removed the VSS magnet setup off the output.
Try to take up as much volume in the tail housing as possible and make the "Plug" fit tight. I welded some little spacers on the outside of the plug to wedge it tight in the case.

3. over fill trans by a quart.

I've stood the buggy straight up and hade to slam reverse to keep from looping. trans always pulled. I hope that helps others with an A340H. I love mine and will only change to an AW4 if the toy t/c blows up and I need an atlas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lambertvr4 View Post
Well, after pulling the rear pan off I decided to just blockoff the fluid galleys instead of building a plate and a "filler drum" as discussed above.

After just a bit of time with some scissors and scrap cardboard I had some templates. See post 17 for more details...https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...l#post35733585



FOR FUTURE REFERENCE...

The Inchworm adapter uses a "359" seal for a 21 spline input shaft, and a "360" seal for the 23 spline input shaft. Those numbers are stamped in the seal itself. I do not have a part number, but you can order these Inchworm adapter seals from Low Range Offroad like I did. They were very knowledgeable and helpful.

In stock applications the A340H shares fluid with the Toyota chain drive transfercase. When using the Inchworm adapter to install the Toyota gear drive transfercase the trans and transfercase no longer share fluid.

The A340H has a second/rear pan as seen in the pic above.
The A340H trans has a 21 spline output shaft.
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:49 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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In for info/tech.

I figured that I may have this issue also and I have been thinking of the same for my AW4 (same basic trans). I'll build something once I install my trans shift kit.
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:31 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I made these block off plates last summer, and they seemed to help, but after looking at it I don't see any reason fluid needs to go to the tailhousing at all. The pan in this pic is empty as far as I can see. I presume the fluid had to go back to feed the chain driven t-case this trans was normally mated with.




For the record, these plates fit well, but don't block off the passages to the rear completely. It would be pretty difficult to completely seal these passages here. That's why I'm thinking I may just put something in the tail housing just to take up empty space so the fluid will have less room.

Hopefully someone else has done this and can shed some light.
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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If you dont get a good answer here cross post it over to general.

Hopefully R.DesJardin and DWT will chime in. Both are very knowledgeable on these trannys.
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Ha ha. This should have been an obvious problem when they designed it. There is an adaper out there the runs the auto tcase reduction to a single gear driven case that is a way bether design.
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
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How about a piece of ptfe plastic round stock, machined in middle to allow the tailshaft to pass through. Just set it in the tail section and bolt up tcase.
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Stubs View Post
If you dont get a good answer here cross post it over to general.

Hopefully R.DesJardin and DWT will chime in. Both are very knowledgeable on these trannys.
Thanks Stubs. I have heard of several guys just making a flat plate to replace the rear pan to keep fluid in the front oil pan on the A340H trans that you have, the A340F models are not built that way. Stock the trans and T-case shared fluid on the H models. You eluded to having gear drive cases now?
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Old 02-23-2016, 01:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks Stubs. I have heard of several guys just making a flat plate to replace the rear pan to keep fluid in the front oil pan on the A340H trans that you have, the A340F models are not built that way. Stock the trans and T-case shared fluid on the H models. You eluded to having gear drive cases now?
I do have a gear drive case with the Inchworm adapter.

The flat plate wouldn't block fluid from going into the tail section, but would prevent it from pooling in the pan and thus allow it to run back up front toward the pickup once you get off the incline. Or am I missing something here?

The plates I made block passages that go up as well. That's why they're "L" shaped. I was trying to restrict the fluid from flowing back as quickly.
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Old 02-23-2016, 01:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Also, I should add that when rebuilding my tcase I found that the seal in my Inchworm adapter was too large for the input shaft on the Tcase. The input shaft is a 21-spline, but the seal if for the 23-spline input shaft. ZukiJames over at Low Range Offroad figured that one out for me over the phone during his day off, and shipped me the right seal when he got back to work the next day. Awesome service!

To that point, since the tcase was not sealed from the trans the fluid would drain into the tcase and get stuck there. This totally explained why the trans needed more fluid after a ride or two although I could never find the leak and the fluid looked fine. Seems obvious now, but I didn't install the auto and adapter, so it never crossed my mind. I suspect this will fix a LOT of my issues with the auto, but I'd still like to give it the best shot I can.

It's fun being the third owner of a rig sometimes.
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Old 02-23-2016, 03:37 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Interested in this as well. Tranny fluid starvation on steep inclines has been my one lingering issue since I went to an automatic when swapping over to a 1uz.
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Old 02-23-2016, 04:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lambertvr4 View Post
I do have a gear drive case with the Inchworm adapter.

The flat plate wouldn't block fluid from going into the tail section, but would prevent it from pooling in the pan and thus allow it to run back up front toward the pickup once you get off the incline. Or am I missing something here?

The plates I made block passages that go up as well. That's why they're "L" shaped. I was trying to restrict the fluid from flowing back as quickly.
Yes it prevents pooling of the oil and allows faster return to the trans pan. I have never had an issue with oil starvation and the Jeep guys that have the AW4 seem to have good luck with steep hills. But yes having an H model will make a difference.
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Old 02-24-2016, 08:42 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I've got a ride in two weeks, so I'm going to put this thing back together as is to see how it does. I suspect that my problems will be largely solved by having the correct seal on the t-case input shaft. This will prevent trans fluid from draining back into the tcase and getting trapped which would result in the trans being low on fluid. It won't prevent the fluid from draining away from the pickup into the empty tail section though.

After this ride I will replace the rear pan with a plate and see if I can devise a way to block off the fluid from the rear section altogether. I need to redo my trans mount, so I can do all of this at the same time.
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Old 02-24-2016, 08:48 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I have zero issues with my A340H/inchworm/single 4.7 at steep angles.

I did three things to fix the issue:

1. flat plate in place of rear pan.

2. made a "Plug" to fill the cavity left in the tail housing. I used a piece of tubing (6" or 8" in think. its been in there for years) capped the ends and put a smaller tube in the center for the output shaft. It shaped like a big metal roll of toilet paper. BTW I removed the VSS magnet setup off the output.
Try to take up as much volume in the tail housing as possible and make the "Plug" fit tight. I welded some little spacers on the outside of the plug to wedge it tight in the case.

3. over fill trans by a quart.

I've stood the buggy straight up and hade to slam reverse to keep from looping. trans always pulled. I hope that helps others with an A340H. I love mine and will only change to an AW4 if the toy t/c blows up and I need an atlas.
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Old 02-24-2016, 10:32 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Perfect! Sounds like I'm on the right path.

I'd say I've learned more about this trans in this one post than I have searching the fabulous interweb entirely.

Thanks guys!

FYI, I've collected the major points covered in the discussion and added them to the first post for anyone else who finds this post in the future.
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Old 02-24-2016, 10:39 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VooDoo View Post
I have zero issues with my A340H/inchworm/single 4.7 at steep angles.

3. over fill trans by a quart.
Would you mind doing me one more favor? I don't have the stock dipstick on my A340H, so I can't tell how much fluid to put in it. Can you measure how long the dipstick and the dipstick tube are for me?

Currently I have a dipstick I made. I just measured down to the sharp bend in the dipstick tube at the trans and figured it should be filled above that "some". If it burps fluid when it gets warm it's too full. Probably not the best solution.

Thanks if you don't mind. If it's a hassle, not a big deal.
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Old 02-29-2016, 08:26 AM   #17 (permalink)
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more blockoff plates instead

Well, after pulling the rear pan off I decided to just blockoff the fluid galleys instead of building a plate and a "filler drum" as discussed above.

Here's a pic of the tail housing without the rear pan. You can see the fluid galleys right above the front pan, and all of the passages the fluid can go into the tailhousing area.


These are the 4 galleys I need to block off to keep the fluid up front with the filter/pickup.


After just a bit of time with some scissors and scrap cardboard I had some templates.


Then I made some rough duplicates out of sheetmetal using tin snips.



I didn't get final pics of the installed pieces, but you get the point. I made them snug and RTV'ed where they slide into place. Another good coating of RTV and let it sit.

I also kept the rear pan installed so I can pull the drain plug in the future to see if the block off plates are still working. If I need to take them out or redo them I can just pull the rear pan and access everything. No need to pull the t-case for this.
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Old 03-02-2016, 09:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
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is it just my computer ? None of the pics in this thread are working for me
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Old 03-02-2016, 09:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Same here, no picky pics.
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Old 03-02-2016, 10:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Would you mind doing me one more favor? I don't have the stock dipstick on my A340H, so I can't tell how much fluid to put in it. Can you measure how long the dipstick and the dipstick tube are for me?

Currently I have a dipstick I made. I just measured down to the sharp bend in the dipstick tube at the trans and figured it should be filled above that "some". If it burps fluid when it gets warm it's too full. Probably not the best solution.

Thanks if you don't mind. If it's a hassle, not a big deal.
I couldn't get a super accurate measurement holding the dipstick next to the tube with the bends and tight quarters. But, it appears my fluid level is approx. 0.5-1" above the top of the pan.

anxious to see how the block off plates work. less over fill would be needed with ALL of the fluid staying out of the cavity.
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Old 03-03-2016, 07:59 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VooDoo View Post
I couldn't get a super accurate measurement holding the dipstick next to the tube with the bends and tight quarters. But, it appears my fluid level is approx. 0.5-1" above the top of the pan.

anxious to see how the block off plates work. less over fill would be needed with ALL of the fluid staying out of the cavity.
Thank you, that's perfect!

I'm curious to see how it does with the blockoff plates as well. I'll know next weekend!
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Old 04-18-2016, 10:34 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Update:

When I repaired my t-case output shaft I installed the small block-off plates mentioned above as well as installing the correct sized input shaft seal on my t-case adapter plate.

This combination has eliminated the fluid starvation problem that has plagued my buggy on vertical climbs. It works like a champ now.

I have one more ride in two weeks and then I'll likely go back and JB Weld the plates in rather than RTV. I'm just worried that the heat and fluid may finally push the plates out.

I probably won't report any further results to this thread unless something catastrophic occurs.
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Old 04-18-2016, 11:46 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Thanks for the update.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:56 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Just saw that these pics weren't working. They should be fixed now. Please confirm.
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:00 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I see pics. Great Tech by the way.
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