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Old 01-17-2018, 08:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Build ideas/advice

Hey guys. I'm new to the forum and will hopefully be picking up my first yota in the near future. I've partially got a deal lined up for a 95 3.0l extended cab with a blown headgasket and a new paint job I'll hopefully be looking at tomorrow (seller is a busy guy). The truck was used (and painted for) in a movie and the body looks clean in the pics but the quality of the paint job is questionable. When I asked the seller about it he said it was a light sand and paint and that it only needed to look good on cam. I'm expecting peeling to be an issue in the coming years but that can be dealt with when the time comes.

I've been building a Suzuki samurai that past couple of years but have recently gotten into snowmobiling and the idea of having a 3rd vehicle just to haul my sled around doesn't make sense to me. The samurai is about 95% done. Last summer I rebuilt a VW diesel 1.9l AAZ engine with arp head and main studs, installed a holset he211wg turbo and a giles performance injection pump. I've only test driven it a few times but so far it makes 27psi of boost and pulls very hard. I would guess power output is around 150hp and 200ft-lbs. Not wanting to take a huge loss on the rebuild I'm planning on swapping it into the pickup and selling off the rolling shell

Anyways my goals for the rig will obviously be for hauling a 500lb sled around, but beyond that this will be my new summer offroad/camping toy. I already have a commuter car so it wont be a daily driver but it will need decent road manners, especially for hauling the sled on snowy roads. Ideally something that could do 75-85mph without feeling like I'm going to die at any minute.

I've read through some build threads and was wondering if I could get some advice on how to proceed with planning. I've always been a fan of solid front axles. I would love to do a flexy sas swap and run something like 35" tires. I'm thinking the money I get from selling my rolling shell of a samurai would be plenty to cover a sas kit and get and axle with probably enough left over for some rear springs/struts. A friend of mine who has owned and built a few Toyotas in the past is trying to steer me away from this as he thinks the suspension will be too soft and will be really sketchy on the highway, especially with a sled on the back and that theres better things I could spend money on. Hes trying to steer me more towards keeping the ifs and throwing on a 4" or 5" lift and 35's and to do a bit of trimming if necessary.

I was hoping I could get some advice from some people who have done an sas swap. How they feel it handles at highway speed and if they would be comfortable carrying 500+ lbs in the bed? If stiffer rear springs could be used or maybe even air bags to help compensate for the weight but not completely destroy off-road ability.

On the other hand it would be nice to hear from some ifs guys. How durable their suspension has been running 35" tires. How capable they are offroad compared to the solid axle guys and any limitations they face with the setup?

Last edited by MrBiggles; 01-17-2018 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 01-17-2018, 08:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Hes trying to steer me more towards keeping the ifs and throwing on a 4" or 5" lift and 35's and to do a bit of trimming if necessary.
fuck that guy

you want this to primarily haul 500lb sled? look up one of the several sprung under axle builds on here SUA and go from there, chop the frame and keep your ride height/"lift" to about stock or +1"

hell, you could run 35" tires on stock IFS with some minor body work...kind of depends on the budget


oh and READ THE FAQ even post photobucket it still has a shit load of information
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Old 01-17-2018, 08:52 PM   #3 (permalink)
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500lbs isnt really much weight.

Stockish IFS that actually is wheeled, eats steering components.
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Old 01-17-2018, 09:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I had a look through the faq but didn't see much that was relevant for my questions. Ill have a look for those sprung under builds. I thought that might be a decent option but I wasn't aware many people attempted it.

I know 500 lbs isn't much but on a vehicle with the kind of flexy lift you would get from sas I was thinking it would be kind of sketchy at highway speeds. wandering, diving in corners, bump steer stuff like that.

Last edited by MrBiggles; 01-17-2018 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 01-17-2018, 09:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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fuck that guy

you want this to primarily haul 500lb sled?
I concur.

However, if this is meant to haul a sled and light wheeling...

I'd buy a rear locker, armor (bumpers, sliders), winch, 235 KM2s, drop in the TDI and rock it as it sits.
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Old 01-17-2018, 09:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Any decent SAS will handle better than a lifted IFS
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Old 01-17-2018, 10:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I had a look through the faq but didn't see much that was relevant for my questions. Ill have a look for those sprung under builds. I thought that might be a decent option but I wasn't aware many people attempted it.

I know 500 lbs isn't much but on a vehicle with the kind of flexy lift you would get from sas I was thinking it would be kind of sketchy at highway speeds. wandering, diving in corners, bump steer stuff like that.
doesn't need to be sketchy at all at highway speeds. never had enough bump steer to notice on my truck or wandering or diving in corners, but i did need to play around with my front spring rate to get where i was happy with it.
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Old 01-17-2018, 10:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Provience did you go with a sas kit or home brew? If a kit what height springs did you go with? Do you have any pictures you can share of the ride height? Would you consider it overly high for a vehicle that isn't primarily trail use? I'm thinking a 3" trail gear kit would work well but I'm not sure if I would want the regular or heavy duty springs. The engine is roughly 300lbs and then a winch bumper. I guess that would be a question for trail gear though. Any comments of trailgear vs allpro?

Black Sheep that's another option as well. I think I've read I will need a body lift for the oil pan to clear the ifs system. I know front/rear bumpers as well as rock sliders will eventually be on the list as well as some kind of ratchet or selectable locker. I know I want a lift, I just don't want it to be overly tall and wallowy on the highway with too much body roll.

I wouldn't say its primarily a sled truck. In winter it will mainly be used for sledding but spring, summer and fall it would be used quite a bit for camping, road trips and 4x4. I'd like to get one of those bed tents and air mattress. I'd like a nice flexy suspension but not If its going to sacrifice stability. Ideally I would have the lowest lift possible to fit 33's or 35's without rubbing but still offering enough flex.

I can find a lot of old forum posts about different suspension setups but photobucket shitting the bed has really ruined the internet. Its hard to get an idea of how high something will actually be when its built when you can barely find pictures. Spring under axle would be pretty cool but finding springs that would give enough height to fit larger tires and still be able to take advantage of the flex without cutting the fenders to pieces might be difficult

Last edited by MrBiggles; 01-17-2018 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 01-18-2018, 05:29 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Find a set of 3rd gen rear leafs (same as the ones you have on your truck now) and swap them up front. Several different companies make front spring hanger kits, but i am partial to the Sky Manufacturing kits. They have different levels to choose from, but if your SASing it, then it makes sense to buy their complete swap kit with hi-steer, u-bolt flip kits, etc. Buy a pair of new 5150 bilsteins and rock on. 35s will fit easily and not be too tall once done. Add a leaf or two in the rear and rock on.

https://www.skysoffroaddesign.com/co...ont-suspension
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:51 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I can find a lot of old forum posts about different suspension setups but photobucket shitting the bed has really ruined the internet. Its hard to get an idea of how high something will actually be when its built when you can barely find pictures. Spring under axle would be pretty cool but finding springs that would give enough height to fit larger tires and still be able to take advantage of the flex without cutting the fenders to pieces might be difficult
There is a chrome plug in that fixes a lot of the photobucket stuff.
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Old 01-18-2018, 07:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
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When I originally built my truck I did ruf's with chevy 63's in the back. As I needed more weight capacity, I swapped the half ton 63's for some 3/4 ton 63's. They held up the weight great and still flexed awesome with the shackle angle I had. I'd say use your truck's rears like white shadow suggested and throw some 63's or f150 springs in the back, whatever you think is best after you do the research. It will ride great as long as you set up the shackle angle right. And I second sky's stuff is solid shit. Get their pitman arm. It's pure beef!
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Old 01-18-2018, 08:35 AM   #12 (permalink)
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If you keep the IFS, don't lift it. Cut the clearance you need for the tire you want to run.
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Old 01-18-2018, 08:39 AM   #13 (permalink)
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my build is on here, search "I like bright colors" but it is pretty hack just a typical RUF w/63" chevy springs and Trail Gear front hanger and ruff stuff rear hangers. I was part way through chopping my front frame to lower the front 4" or so and going to a 56" rear spring to cut down on the overhang.

with the TG hanger it was high in the front, cleared 37" tires with no trimming, and I would say too tall for loading regularly and 35" tires. just start off with a frame chop or sprung under up front with like a 4" lift spring and go front shackle to get the height down closer to stock. keep stock rear springs and add a leaf or two in if it needs help with the weight.
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Last edited by Provience; 01-18-2018 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 01-18-2018, 09:29 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I wouldn’t bother doing a SAS on an IFS truck. You’ll find in short order that the front of the frame sucks and your truck will end up with enough lift to run 40s. 34x10.5 LTBs and a rear locker on stock IFS and rock the fuck out.

Last edited by Aisin; 01-18-2018 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:02 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I have a 2wd frame i would sell him
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Old 01-18-2018, 03:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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90supra Thanks for that tip! I've been using ms edge lately but will definitely switch back to chrome!

shadow I actually really like that idea I want sas and flex but also want stability and to not be overly tall. I've got itty bitty legs lol. I'm in Canada so your frame wont be necessary :P

Going to look at the truck tonight at 6. Hopefully I'll be able to snatch it up. I offered to trade a cheap snowmobile I bought and used once before upgrading to a more capable sled. He seems pretty keen for it so hopefully it works out. I've also got a guy interested in looking at my samurai this weekend. If all goes well I can hopefully start pulling engines soon and ordering parts
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Old 01-18-2018, 05:17 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Where in Canada are you?

IFS with a locker and armour works fine for a lot of stuff. More than most folks seem to expect. Sleds are pretty long for a 6' Toyota box though.
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Old 01-18-2018, 07:18 PM   #18 (permalink)
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When it comes to ride height, keep in mind you really dont need to run 6" shackles. If set up properly when built you can easily run ~4" shackles. Yes you will lose a little bit of articulation/up travel but it will lower the rig to be a little more stable.

I've ran short shackles on my junk for years with my RUF/63's, as short as I can really go in the front, (somewhere around ~3, I'd have to go measure for sure). Front hanger moved forward further than normal to keep good shackle angle. It lowered the truck alot, 19" belly on 36's. Still rides great and does very well offroad.
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I'm in Langley. I know the sled will stick out a couple feet and I'm ok with that. I'm only going to be driving to the mountain and back with it so I'm not too worried about it.

Shackle length is definitely something to consider.

Had a look at the trucks today. Both of them had about 320,000km The parts truck is a complete pos, has a bunch of fake bullet holes in the metal (used in a movie) and a bunch of wiring running to them for the charges they used. the body is completely rusted out and theres a huge hole in the side of the box.

The "good truck" was in much better shape but still had issues. The rear right leaf springs were broken, the frame was in really good shape up until the rear axle. the last 2' or so are pretty rusty. Not falling apart but would definitely need a good clean up. The passenger side fender is banged in pretty good. The cab and interior looked to be in pretty good shape. My buddy seems to think the entire thing is a huge bondo job but I'm not fully convinced. The box on the other hand is pretty bad. its not falling apart but its had a lot of bondo work and just looks funky. A good thing is it has 4.56 gears which would work fairly well with the diesel for now anyways. On 35's I would probably want some larger gears for highway cruising.

I offered the guy $600 which he thinks is too low. He says he will take $900 or deliver it for $1000. I'm going to have a look at some other trucks in the mean time and hopefully he will change his mind. If not I'll try and find a 2wd In better shape and just build that.
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:38 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I think you'll get shit on by CVSE with a sled in the back of a Toyota. Just my opinion, but I know guys who have gotten pulled over for a quad in the back of a third gen.
4.56s and a 22re is a decent combo for 35s. Running a lower revving diesel i think you'll be slow with that combo. Boxes aren't too expensive, I have one over here with no tailgate and some rust in the fenders I'd give away for free if someone wanted it.
If you're dead set on SASing it, just go with a 2wd.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:07 AM   #21 (permalink)
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If you plan on driving on icy roads a rear selectable locker is a must in my book. Anytime it slick you'll need to be locked in 4wd otherwise.
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I don't really see what CVSE would have problems with. Its within the weight capacity of the bed, as long as its secure I don't really see what the issue would be. If anything they may require flagging on the end of it to be visible to other drivers like hauling a 12' 2x4 but I don't really see what laws it would be breaking? The pickup beds are what, 6'? With the tail gate down its about 8', the sled should only overhang about 2'. Tons of people do it and I've never seen anyone pulled over for it before. I also find it odd they gave your buddy a hard time about a quad on the back. As long as its safely tied down whats the problem?

Are you sure lockers are good for icy roads? I was always under the impression they would force the back end to swing out due to the tires spinning at the same speed on corners and that an open diff would be preferable. I know at slow speeds in deep snow a locker would be very useful but just for bombing around on the highway I don't think it would be a good idea. Regardless all the places I've gone sledding so far have roads/parking lots that are plowed and pretty well maintained.

Found a 2wd with a blown 22re I'm hopefully going to be taking a look at next time I have a day off.
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Old 01-21-2018, 06:44 AM   #23 (permalink)
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torsin type limitied slip would probably be best fo ryou, as well as 31-33" tires and IFS with no lift.

something like a tru track detroit or other gear drivin LSD
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:19 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Truck boxes are about 16" deep. Not 2 feet. It's the weight they're squirrelly about, but if you figure you're good, go for it. I dunno how the weight is balanced on a sled, but I'd imagine the majority will be behind the axle of the truck.
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Old 01-21-2018, 12:43 PM   #25 (permalink)
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If you plan on driving on icy roads a rear selectable locker is a must in my book. Anytime it slick you'll need to be locked in 4wd otherwise.
I've driven for decades of NJ winters with a locker in the rear. You're right, if it's slippery at all I very much prefer to be in 4WD, unless I'm in the mood to play that is

I would think a Torsen/True-track would act much the same on snow/ice ?

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