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Old 03-28-2018, 08:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Trail gear power flow steering box? Or psc or howe?

Anyone running a steering box from an aftermarket company? Trail gear now has one they are saying is all new. I don't think the psc or howe is a new unit.

Do they flow more to the ram to alow quicker steering?
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm running a PSC steering box and ram. PSC box was to replace an ooooolllld OEM box that I'd intended to rebuild and drill/tap, but their price for a ready-to-rock unit was pretty good, and my truck was only down for the 45 minutes it took me to swap the box.

I'm on my second TG pump (their first one was a leaky pile. I bought one of their newest units because the old one was way out of warranty. I'd only actually run it a few months...but it spent its first 8 years in the box in my garage. The new pump has been great, nice and quiet- no leaks. Their ram is a leaky piece of shit though. I've resealed it twice (Again, spent its first 8 years in a box in the garage) and it still leaks. PSC Ram is sealed up nicely. I also ditched the TG reservoir in favor of the PSC unit with a filter inside.

Moral of my story- should have just went with PSC from the start. I'd have been money ahead.
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:32 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm running a PSC steering box and ram. PSC box was to replace an ooooolllld OEM box that I'd intended to rebuild and drill/tap, but their price for a ready-to-rock unit was pretty good, and my truck was only down for the 45 minutes it took me to swap the box.

I'm on my second TG pump (their first one was a leaky pile. I bought one of their newest units because the old one was way out of warranty. I'd only actually run it a few months...but it spent its first 8 years in the box in my garage. The new pump has been great, nice and quiet- no leaks. Their ram is a leaky piece of shit though. I've resealed it twice (Again, spent its first 8 years in a box in the garage) and it still leaks. PSC Ram is sealed up nicely. I also ditched the TG reservoir in favor of the PSC unit with a filter inside.

Moral of my story- should have just went with PSC from the start. I'd have been money ahead.
Gotcha, I was really trying to start a brand war. I'm more curious about what they are doing to the boxes vs a stock one. Does psc open up the ports in the box for more flow? Or is it just tapped and rebuilt?
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Old 03-28-2018, 12:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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To my knowledge, PSC just does a thorough rebuild and taps the ports. The increased flow would come from a higher output pump. I can't see the box being the restriction, as it's limited by how fast you can turn the wheel left/right. There is more than adequate flow though the box, provided the pump can keep up.
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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To my knowledge, PSC just does a thorough rebuild and taps the ports. The increased flow would come from a higher output pump. I can't see the box being the restriction, as it's limited by how fast you can turn the wheel left/right. There is more than adequate flow though the box, provided the pump can keep up.
You are on crack (or have never had a Toyota box apart) if you don't think the box is a restriction. The passage that gets tapped into is about an 1/8"

Ive installed or helped install maybe half a dozen assist setups. From all stock Toyota stuff to a full psc kit. 1.5-2" rams. I have never liked how they turn, great on the trail, but too slow when trying to correct slides or whatever. For this reason, I went straight to full hydro, which is great. However, I would like to work towards making my rig more highway friendly so I'm exploring steering options.

Honestly, if I were to spend $400+ on a box, I may just go to a Saginaw box. The one jeep that I drive with that setup had 44" tires. It was amazing, all the power to turn at slow speeds, but didn't feel sluggish when turning quickly.

The other option is a servo/manual box.... But that another thread.
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo View Post
You are on crack (or have never had a Toyota box apart) if you don't think the box is a restriction. The passage that gets tapped into is about an 1/8"

Ive installed or helped install maybe half a dozen assist setups. From all stock Toyota stuff to a full psc kit. 1.5-2" rams. I have never liked how they turn, great on the trail, but too slow when trying to correct slides or whatever. For this reason, I went straight to full hydro, which is great. However, I would like to work towards making my rig more highway friendly so I'm exploring steering options.

Honestly, if I were to spend $400+ on a box, I may just go to a Saginaw box. The one jeep that I drive with that setup had 44" tires. It was amazing, all the power to turn at slow speeds, but didn't feel sluggish when turning quickly.

The other option is a servo/manual box.... But that another thread.

I'm going with crack. Oil seals should work fine after being dry for 8 years, in his realm.

Psc does have all new saginaw style boxes

Last edited by Wilson; 03-28-2018 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 03-28-2018, 02:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm not on crack, although reading my reply it sure sounds like I am. My mistake.

All I was trying to say is the stock pump is the restriction when coupled with a ram assist, in my experience. An upgraded pump made a big improvement on my junk. You're right about it being a bit sluggish still, but it's much better than before. To take that last bit of sluggish-ness out, yes- the box ports would have to be opened up. I do not believe my PSC box is anything other than a stock box that's been rebuilt and drilled/tapped. I think your idea of running a saginaw box is likely the solution that will provide the best on-road performance.

@Wilson- I had no expectation of seal performance after sitting so long- which is why I rebuilt that ram 2x. The pump was one of TG's original style pumps, which was known for leaking- no matter the age. I opted to replace it, and have been happy with their updated pump.




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Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo View Post
You are on crack (or have never had a Toyota box apart) if you don't think the box is a restriction. The passage that gets tapped into is about an 1/8"

Ive installed or helped install maybe half a dozen assist setups. From all stock Toyota stuff to a full psc kit. 1.5-2" rams. I have never liked how they turn, great on the trail, but too slow when trying to correct slides or whatever. For this reason, I went straight to full hydro, which is great. However, I would like to work towards making my rig more highway friendly so I'm exploring steering options.

Honestly, if I were to spend $400+ on a box, I may just go to a Saginaw box. The one jeep that I drive with that setup had 44" tires. It was amazing, all the power to turn at slow speeds, but didn't feel sluggish when turning quickly.

The other option is a servo/manual box.... But that another thread.

Last edited by reklund5; 03-28-2018 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 03-28-2018, 03:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm going with crack. Oil seals should work fine after being dry for 8 years, in his realm.

Psc does have all new saginaw style boxes
Only $900+

I think I could do a servo and manual box set up for that kind of money no? My buddy has a manual Ifs box just sitting..... I'm not sure what the ratio is. Maybe too slow, or a gutted power box.
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:00 AM   #9 (permalink)
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When I ordered my box (out of pure laziness) from PSC they told me they open up all the ports.
Just switched from a psc pump to the tg 1650 mega flow or whatever it's called and it seems to work fine.
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:43 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyjed View Post
When I ordered my box (out of pure laziness) from PSC they told me they open up all the ports.
Just switched from a psc pump to the tg 1650 mega flow or whatever it's called and it seems to work fine.
x2

almost positive the hydro fittings are brazed on instead of drilled/tapped, at least on my PSC box
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Old 03-29-2018, 01:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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When I ordered my box (out of pure laziness) from PSC they told me they open up all the ports.
Just switched from a psc pump to the tg 1650 mega flow or whatever it's called and it seems to work fine.
How does it compare to a stock drilled and tapped box?
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Old 03-29-2018, 04:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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How does it compare to a stock drilled and tapped box?
It seemed smoother and maybe even a little quicker out of the box. Three years later I haven't had any issues.
Is it worth it?
For me it has been.

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x2

almost positive the hydro fittings are brazed on instead of drilled/tapped, at least on my PSC box
The fittings for the lines to the ram are brazed. At least that's what it looks like in my garage.
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Old 03-29-2018, 11:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You are on crack (or have never had a Toyota box apart) if you don't think the box is a restriction. The passage that gets tapped into is about an 1/8"

Ive installed or helped install maybe half a dozen assist setups. From all stock Toyota stuff to a full psc kit. 1.5-2" rams. I have never liked how they turn, great on the trail, but too slow when trying to correct slides or whatever. For this reason, I went straight to full hydro, which is great. However, I would like to work towards making my rig more highway friendly so I'm exploring steering options.

Honestly, if I were to spend $400+ on a box, I may just go to a Saginaw box. The one jeep that I drive with that setup had 44" tires. It was amazing, all the power to turn at slow speeds, but didn't feel sluggish when turning quickly.

The other option is a servo/manual box.... But that another thread.
The part that really restricts the boxes is the torsion spring in the spool valve, in Toyotas its pretty stiff and when you add hydro assist it doesn't get the force needed to open the spool valve all the way. I believe PSC cuts the spring down in the spool valve so it opens the valve all the way. This is also why signaw boxes seem to work better with hyrdo assist, their torsion spring is lighter.

I have the dimensions of the toyota box compared to the large signaw box in this thread. https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...ering-box.html
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