Steel City Racing: King of the Hammers 2019 Toyota 4Runner IFS 4600 Build Thread - Page 13 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:47 AM   #301 (permalink)
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If youre going to represent us toyota guys, at least make it look clean on the starting line.
This was the best shit I've read in a long time If he truly wanted to represent the Toyota guys. He'd be rolling up to the start line with every possible piece of sheet metal dented and 2 different color fenders.
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Mike Johnson #43 7 time EMC KOH finisher, 6 top 5's
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:49 AM   #302 (permalink)
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I hate to say this but, at this point I see a big fail coming. Even if you do manage to get a truck that passes tech to the line, it's not going to make it very far before you find the first issue that stops you dead in your tracks. You really need to stop and listen to the advice you are being given in this thread. These guys know WTF they are talking about and are being extremely polite, for being Pirate, to help you out.


The fact that you are leaving the dash and all the stuff behind it in tact, bought a seat bracket to "temporarily" mount the race seat for the drive to Cali, mounting the fucking fuel cell to sheetmetal and mounting the suspension BEFORE the cage goes in, put on (sure hope those were completely free!!!) the gay as two dudes fucking fiberglass fenders, that will not last 5 min at KOH, and light bar tell me everything I need to know about how this is going to turn out.

You should start on the sponsor apology letters now. Your going to be needing them.



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Old 08-14-2018, 10:04 AM   #303 (permalink)
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This was the best shit I've read in a long time If he truly wanted to represent the Toyota guys. He'd be rolling up to the start line with every possible piece of sheet metal dented and 2 different color fenders.
Body parts would just be missing, not different colors. Do you really think a Toyota guy is going to put forth the effort to find a replacement part? They’ll just let it fall off and say it was never there.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:06 AM   #304 (permalink)
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If you have the option to change this order, I would. The cage becomes the chassis of your car and you will want to tie your shocks and suspension into it in a clean manner. The cage should be the first thing you do. Everything else comes after.
So much this. I did the same thing you are talking about doing, and have been fighting it ever since. I honestly wish I would have started with boxing the frame and caging my truck before I ever did anything else, and now I have to redo a bunch of shit.

Also, the weight of the cage is going to change your suspension. Even with the lightened doors and interior, etc, it is still going to be heavy. I think you have to run 2" tubing, which takes up a lot of room. I'm sure you are doing what you can in AL before shipping it off, but like a lot of people on here have been saying, get the cage work done ASAP. Then the suspension.

Really want to see this thing succeed, and I'm sure the sponsors do too. 25 weeks to go...
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:08 AM   #305 (permalink)
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This was the best shit I've read in a long time If he truly wanted to represent the Toyota guys. He'd be rolling up to the start line with every possible piece of sheet metal dented and 2 different color fenders.
This is the funniest thing I have read in a long time. You owe me a keyboard
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:09 AM   #306 (permalink)
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Plus the cage adds weight, that will change the final tune on shocks /springs . Unless you know how much tubing you are going to use and compensate for it . Another thing is if you do the cage first you will have a better idea for mounting points and place to locate things . Example would be mounting rear coilovers with a cross brace and possible mount for the spare tires. Maybe a tabbed uereathane bush mounted rear bumper so it's replaceable . And add something to the lower control arm mount back up to frame to stiffen the rail up where there ment to bend in a wheel hit .
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:10 AM   #307 (permalink)
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If you have the option to change this order, I would. The cage becomes the chassis of your car and you will want to tie your shocks and suspension into it in a clean manner. The cage should be the first thing you do. Everything else comes after.
EDIT: The order above is correct - my understanding of the build steps in CA was off.

And yes, the seats and multiple other items will be pulled out and re-done when the cage goes in - they are simply "temporarily" mounted to get me to CA in a few weeks without having to drag heavy OEM seats with me.

The feedback on this forum has changed our plans a number of times. Keep it coming!
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:12 AM   #308 (permalink)
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So much this. I did the same thing you are talking about doing, and have been fighting it ever since. I honestly wish I would have started with boxing the frame and caging my truck before I ever did anything else, and now I have to redo a bunch of shit.

Also, the weight of the cage is going to change your suspension. Even with the lightened doors and interior, etc, it is still going to be heavy. I think you have to run 2" tubing, which takes up a lot of room. I'm sure you are doing what you can in AL before shipping it off, but like a lot of people on here have been saying, get the cage work done ASAP. Then the suspension.

Really want to see this thing succeed, and I'm sure the sponsors do too. 25 weeks to go...
I could see just doing the occupant portion of the cage now, and leaving the rest for when the suspension goes in as it can be hard to predetermine where the shocks will fit best.
I would rip the dash out, strip all of the unnecessary wire and components. You need to make this thing light as possible, and easy to service. Trying to get the cage to closely follow the A pillar is going to be a bitch with the stock dash in place.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:13 AM   #309 (permalink)
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I'm sure you are doing what you can in AL before shipping it off, but like a lot of people on here have been saying, get the cage work done ASAP. Then the suspension.

Really want to see this thing succeed, and I'm sure the sponsors do too. 25 weeks to go...
Thanks guys - just doing the best I can while the truck is in AL. It'll be transformed much more here shortly in CA.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:25 AM   #310 (permalink)
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good to here bud.

The idea about gutting the dash is also a very good idea. The cage in my ranger is behind the dash and took a stupid amount of time to do. The one in the explorer i had to hack up the dash because I wasn't going through with all that shit again. Only reason I kept the dash in both trucks was for A/C (which neither truck has functional A/C still). Neither of my trucks are race trucks either though

If you are not running A/C in this thing, then I'm with friggnxj, pull that heavy sum bitch out and use tabs with rivnuts and 3/8 steel rod to hold a guage panel and fabricated dashboard to mount switches and gauges. would make it super easy if you start having electrical problems, you can easily use a cordless impact to zip a few allen head machine screws out and with minimal wiring and shit behind the dash, quickly find any problems back there.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:35 AM   #311 (permalink)
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The cage will be done after the suspension is setup.
If you have the option to change this order, I would. The cage becomes the chassis of your car and you will want to tie your shocks and suspension into it in a clean manner. The cage should be the first thing you do. Everything else comes after.
Spoke with Wyatt and I was wrong. Cage will go in Before the suspension - will be the first thing done in CA.

Also recall that per 4600 rules the cage will tie to the frame and suspension will tie into the frame. Suspension will not go up into the body/cab of course.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:45 AM   #312 (permalink)
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Spoke with Wyatt and I was wrong. Cage will go in Before the suspension - will be the first thing done in CA.

Also recall that per 4600 rules the cage will tie to the frame and suspension will tie into the frame. Suspension will not go up into the body/cab of course.
But you can change shock locations on frame for tire/travel clearance and will be able to add additional bracing off the cage were needed to stiffen the suspension and shock mounting locations.

BTW...... Sorry for the little rant earlier but at this point I'm sticking by what I posted. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE prove me wrong! I really want to see this get finished and at the starting line this year.

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Old 08-14-2018, 12:11 PM   #313 (permalink)
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More stuff that'll go in this weekend. The big stuff is yet to come in CA, but it'll be good to check a ton of stuff off the list this weekend.

To the post above - yes, I still don't have the AN fittings. Hope to get those today or tomorrow so we can close out the fuel system. And I'm still struggling with ways to get the stock sender to work with AllTech baffles - but may give up and plug in a new sender and flip resistance through a converter to work with OEM guage.

1) AllTech - No2Foam - Baffles (enough for a 24gal cell). Thanks to Chris for sponsorsing this build!


2) Harnesses and angle mounts that we'll take to CA:


3) URD MAF Calibrator (to unlock any lost HP):


Doug Thorley Headers and Hi-Flow Cats should be done today.

I'd love to dyno it, but don't have the $'s in the budget. My best guess is the 4.7L will be b/w 350-375 HP by the end of the weekend, but that may be overly optimistic. Headers alone are a 30 HP gain.
More like 200hp to the tires.
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:03 PM   #314 (permalink)
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BTW...... Sorry for the little rant earlier but at this point I'm sticking by what I posted. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE prove me wrong! I really want to see this get finished and at the starting line this year.
No prob - keep it coming! It's all healthy debate that will ultimately make this vehicle 10x better. If you all were silent, I'd be worried!

Constructive criticism is what we need!
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:11 PM   #315 (permalink)
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If you are not running A/C in this thing, then I'm with friggnxj, pull that heavy sum bitch out and use tabs with rivnuts and 3/8 steel rod to hold a guage panel and fabricated dashboard to mount switches and gauges. would make it super easy if you start having electrical problems, you can easily use a cordless impact to zip a few allen head machine screws out and with minimal wiring and shit behind the dash, quickly find any problems back there.
I'm sure not everyone (or no-one) will agree with me here, but the dash is staying. Has anyone pulled one of these? I pulled it to do all the wiring 5 times over the past few weeks week and it literally weights nothing! It also takes 10-mins to pull max if needed - just a ton of snaps and a few 10mm bolts.

As mentioned a few pages ago, I've read about 10+ builds with electrical issues taking them out of the race after guys riped a ton of wiring out to try and save "weight". I have no interest in riskng an electrical issue that might come back to bit us to save 5-10 lbs on the dash and wiring. It works perfect as is, is compact and low profile, and it keeps everything in a nice, sealed, and orderly fashion.

Also, I might as well get it out of the way, but I'm keeping the head unit in. Not for listening to music while on the trail of course (there are no speakers), but I'm worried about driver visibility on the rock trails while I'm strapped to the back of the seat in the 5-point harness with our long SUV hood. So, I decided to move the rear view camera to the front bumper - possibly in the center or right in line with the Front Drivers tire. I found an option on the head unit that keeps the camera on all the time - so unless it gets destroyed, we'll be able to see our line on a 7" screen as we go and possibly avoid a little spotting.

Let the bashing begin .
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:14 PM   #316 (permalink)
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But you can change shock locations on frame for tire/travel clearance and will be able to add additional bracing off the cage were needed to stiffen the suspension and shock mounting locations.
Correct. Everything on suspension mounts, shock placement, etc will be 100% custom and we can use the bracing off the cage to provide additional support wherever possible. Just glad I have experts working on this for us.
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:22 PM   #317 (permalink)
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Put on (sure hope those were completely free!!!) the gay as two dudes fucking fiberglass fenders, that will not last 5 min at KOH, and light bar tell me everything I need to know about how this is going to turn out.
And just to set the record straight on a few things:
1) Yes, the fiberglass fenders were sponsored by Fiberwerx. They may get destroyed in 5-mins, but they weight nothing and won't shred a tire, which has happened quite a bit on 4600 rigs with clearanced fenders when the suspension traveled more than expected at race speed. If they are hanging off or gone at the end, so be it. If I'm honest, they're wider than I was expecting...

2) The light bar was on the rig when I purchased it. I haven't touched it. It'll be integrated into the front bumper at some point in case we are still out there at dark. The race light bar (just purchased last night) happens to have two LEDs in the center for rearward facing LEDs in case we are still going at dark. This means $0 spent on lighting for the rig front and rear.

3) Just like the LED, the magnaflow cat-back exhaust and tips were on the rig when I bought it. Good muffler, but it'll be heavily modified at Wyatt's shop when the rear is done and the tips will be the first thing to go. Again, $0 spend on the muffler.
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:58 PM   #318 (permalink)
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I'm sure not everyone (or no-one) will agree with me here, but the dash is staying. Has anyone pulled one of these? I pulled it to do all the wiring 5 times over the past few weeks week and it literally weights nothing! It also takes 10-mins to pull max if needed - just a ton of snaps and a few 10mm bolts.

As mentioned a few pages ago, I've read about 10+ builds with electrical issues taking them out of the race after guys riped a ton of wiring out to try and save "weight". I have no interest in riskng an electrical issue that might come back to bit us to save 5-10 lbs on the dash and wiring. It works perfect as is, is compact and low profile, and it keeps everything in a nice, sealed, and orderly fashion.

Also, I might as well get it out of the way, but I'm keeping the head unit in. Not for listening to music while on the trail of course (there are no speakers), but I'm worried about driver visibility on the rock trails while I'm strapped to the back of the seat in the 5-point harness with our long SUV hood. So, I decided to move the rear view camera to the front bumper - possibly in the center or right in line with the Front Drivers tire. I found an option on the head unit that keeps the camera on all the time - so unless it gets destroyed, we'll be able to see our line on a 7" screen as we go and possibly avoid a little spotting.

Let the bashing begin .
I get that but... once you weld in the door bars on the cage, add a secondary a-pillar(maybe), getting that dash out, let alone working on it in any normal fashion goes out the window; your head will be on the floor, your ass will be by you head rest, and your feet will be dangling precariously in the air somewhere over where the rear seats used to reside.

If keeping the camera is important, as visibility sucks when strapped in while wearing a hans device, just add a cheap amazon unit. Don't limit yourself to the dash just to keep the OEM unit.

Bashing over.
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Old 08-14-2018, 04:13 PM   #319 (permalink)
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I get that but... once you weld in the door bars on the cage, add a secondary a-pillar(maybe), getting that dash out, let alone working on it in any normal fashion goes out the window; your head will be on the floor, your ass will be by you head rest, and your feet will be dangling precariously in the air somewhere over where the rear seats used to reside.

If keeping the camera is important, as visibility sucks when strapped in while wearing a hans device, just add a cheap amazon unit. Don't limit yourself to the dash just to keep the OEM unit.

Bashing over.
Points taken. The theory is by not "fixing something that isn't broke", we'll never have to touch the dash in the race. Let's hope this is true.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't think of anything behind the actual dash that could prevent the vehicle from racing. But if we start tearing it out, I am certain our chances of a failure are much greater by modifying all the small Toyota engineered electrical stuff behind the dash that works fine in current form.

I'm trying to keep everything important (including the primary master kill switch components - see pic below) in the engine compartment or inside the kick panels (ECU, etc).

But I'm probably missing something
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Old 08-14-2018, 04:15 PM   #320 (permalink)
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Also, to add to the above post.... The HVAC box, A/C and heater ducts and all the associated components (lines, hoses, compressor, ect) that go with those systems weights a fuck ton. Removing that stuff will help you shed a lot of unneeded weight that will inevitably slow you down and put more stress on the suspension components. In a stock class any weight you can lose for free is a win.

Carry on
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Old 08-14-2018, 04:19 PM   #321 (permalink)
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Pic of the heart of the Master Kill Switch wired in the engine bay - the plastic red push button simply finalizes the circuit ground once it is pressed. This is the Heavy Duty portion of the Painless system:



http://www.painlessperformance.com/Manuals/30205.pdf?
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Old 08-14-2018, 04:27 PM   #322 (permalink)
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Best way to remove the dash and its unneeded components is by unplugging stuff at the connectors one by one and starting truck after each one to see if check engine light illuminates or if it runs different. If check engine lights up and it's not an engine related code leave parts unplugged/removed. Non engine/trans related codes will not stop your truck from running. It probably has a computer for HVAC, Stereo/navigation, body controls? Ect that can be completely removed with check engine light on and effect nothing running wise.

Also, you can think of it another way.... The more unnecessary wiring and systems you leave in the rig now, the more potential to cause electrical or other issues during the race because they are being subject to conditions they were never ment to be in.

That's my .02
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Old 08-14-2018, 04:36 PM   #323 (permalink)
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See those butt connectors you used on that solenoid....Fail! And your worried about the dash being an electrical issue. ALL electrical connections should be soldered and shrink wrapped so they don't fall apart under race conditions. Cheap crimp connections are garbage. That's race car basics 101.

Also, wire loom or wrap all new wiring and check the factory stuff for places it could potentially chafe over the course of the race. Bouncing wires will stop you dead in your tracks or worse, burn your race rig to the ground.

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Old 08-14-2018, 04:56 PM   #324 (permalink)
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See those butt connectors you used on that solenoid....Fail! And your worried about the dash being an electrical issue. ALL electrical connections should be soldered and shrink wrapped so they don't fall apart under race conditions. Cheap crimp connections are garbage. That's race car basics 101.

Also, wire loom or wrap all new wiring and check the factory stuff for places it could potentially chafe over the course of the race. Bouncing wires will stop you dead in your tracks or worse, burn your race rig to the ground.
I agree the above connectors are not the best. But a proper crimped wire is better than a soldered wire. Especially for off-road where vibration is an issue. Look at all high trophy truck wiring. They use all crimp connections.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:04 PM   #325 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hurleygo3 View Post
I agree the above connectors are not the best. But a proper crimped wire is better than a soldered wire. Especially for off-road where vibration is an issue. Look at all high trophy truck wiring. They use all crimp connections.
The big dollar TT and race car wiring jobs I have seen all used high end connectors that look like butt connectors but have solder inside and a shrinkwrap coating on the outside. Other than looking like butt connectors they are very different. YFMV

First pic is for ends, and the second is for splices
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Last edited by SLOWPOKE693; 08-14-2018 at 05:11 PM.
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