Steel City Racing: King of the Hammers 2019 Toyota 4Runner IFS 4600 Build Thread - Page 6 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:46 PM   #126 (permalink)
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An example of a rear “hatch”. Only the ring around the window was kept.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:46 PM   #127 (permalink)
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4600 Class rules above (and pasted above again)

KOH Rules for this part of the build:
8.2.11: Stock doors may be modified to create half-doors and/or may also be replaced with tubular doors. Doors must open and close, bolted on panels are not allowed.
8.3.2 - 3:Stock doors may be modified to create half-doors and/or may also be replaced with tubular doors. Doors must open and close, bolted on panels are not allowed.
Sounds like tube doors would have solved all this nonsense. Sell your 4 "good stock doors" and rear hatch to recoup that expense. "Keep the dust down"....Come awn! Is he going to be rocking the AC as well. Hate to get too hot in the race suit.

This is the most overthought thread on the internet right now I swear.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:48 PM   #128 (permalink)
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Couple of examples....
Yeah, it's actually odd. A ton of 4600 rigs put tubing and latches in when the class was first announced. But lately, I've seen the same rigs adding a tailgate or hatch back on. Maybe for rules changes - maybe to keep the dust down - maybe for sponsor "looks".

I specifically recall a 1st gen removing the tube and latches the 3rd or so year of 4600 and putting a stock tailgate back on per Tech request I think... Maybe some of them will chime in.

In last year's race, I felt like the majority of 4600 rigs had a stock looking tailgate or rear hatch, but I may be wrong.

EDIT:
Found it: VAROKCRWLR - Jan 10, 2015 - "Had to modify the rear bumper. Apparently when the rule book says all doors must operate...this includes a working tailgate....so off with the old and on with the new:"

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https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gene...l#post29828825

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https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gene...rebuild-2.html
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:50 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Sounds like you need to ask whoever is in charge of tech these days.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:22 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Rare for pirate lately, but there's actually some good discussions in this thread.

As for the gear choice. Like has already been stated. KOH is a bunch sprints in the desert. Way to many guys focus on swinging dick top speed numbers. I've done ok at KOH. I think the top speed I've ever seen was 72mph, this year we never saw over 56mph.

A lot of guys run spools up front. But most of the fast guys in the desert are running open in the desert with selectable lockers. Will handle better, steer better in the rocks and easier on parts.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:47 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Rare for pirate lately, but there's actually some good discussions in this thread.

As for the gear choice. Like has already been stated. KOH is a bunch sprints in the desert. Way to many guys focus on swinging dick top speed numbers. I've done ok at KOH. I think the top speed I've ever seen was 72mph, this year we never saw over 56mph.

A lot of guys run spools up front. But most of the fast guys in the desert are running open in the desert with selectable lockers. Will handle better, steer better in the rocks and easier on parts.
Solid advice - thank you! We're definitely doing selectable ARB in the front. Still waiting to see if we can change our 4.56 to 4.88 or higher - we ordered the RJ60 a few weeks ago, but I think we're going to end up with 4.88s.

I thought my team had some good advice when I spoke with them about the gears last week:

In summary:
- We can go to a 4.88s, but we wouldn't go any lower than that.
- Guys running 5.38s have 1 ton axle under their light weight buggies, not IFS diffs sitting under an SUV.
- Running in 4600 class is a ballet of compromises. We don't have the luxury of throwing the biggest and strongest at this so we have to play it smart with our compromises.
- Running anything bigger than 4.88 and we think we'll be looking at replacing the front diff a number of times during the race.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:21 PM   #132 (permalink)
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Sounds like tube doors would have solved all this nonsense. Sell your 4 "good stock doors" and rear hatch to recoup that expense. "Keep the dust down"....Come awn! Is he going to be rocking the AC as well. Hate to get too hot in the race suit.

This is the most overthought thread on the internet right now I swear.
wasn't keeping A/C one of the first things stated on page 1?
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:31 PM   #133 (permalink)
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Doors are locked in, but I'm going to have to do something creative for the rear hatch. Really wish I could find a way to take a hatch or tailgate and get it to fit somehow.

Salvage hatches are $$$.
You're stepping over dollars to pick up dimes. It has to function like the stock piece in "spirit". I hope you gut and cut all the salvage doors in half.

There was a few times around hammertown where I couldnt see my hand in front of my face due to dust. Open desert running balls out (you wont have the suspension to hit high speeds like U4) at 50mph there wont be a dust problem.

My quick search didnt turn up. But which company build a newer gen 4runner just to prove the IFS can handle 35s? RCV? FROR?
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:38 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Front Range Offroad built a 3rd gen using an 8" front diff from a newer (I don't know much about anything, so year range is for somebody who cares to look it up) toyota and it seems to be working well on 37" tires

RCV/Tech Tim was running 35"s for a long time and posting about it on here for a while. Several others have also made decent compromise setups, but I don't know that there has been a Toyota IFS finisher at KOH
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:21 AM   #135 (permalink)
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- Running anything bigger than 4.88 and we think we'll be looking at replacing the front diff a number of times during the race.
You really think you would be replacing a diff during a race? Multiple times? There is a time limit on crossing the finish line

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Front Range Offroad built a 3rd gen using an 8" front diff from a newer (I don't know much about anything, so year range is for somebody who cares to look it up) toyota and it seems to be working well on 37" tires
I would love to see any details about this (especially if it's a 3rd gen). Sounds cool as hell
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:31 PM   #136 (permalink)
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You really think you would be replacing a diff during a race? Multiple times? There is a time limit on crossing the finish line


I would love to see any details about this (especially if it's a 3rd gen). Sounds cool as hell
https://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/

This 1996 Toyota 4Runner Proves IFS Doesn’t Have to Be Weak

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyo...tions-now.html

post #27. it is a really nice setup, saw it out there at the first trail hero, hopefully it is out there again this year. I would love to do this to my wifes car it would beat the hell out of a solid axle for a 99% street rig, saving my pennies now so it will probably be a decade and fully fleshed out design by the time I can get to it


edit: so FROR is using "03 and up" front end parts, this thread being about an 06 should match and be buildable that way. like I said, I've never paid much attention to the newer stuff.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:58 PM   #137 (permalink)
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Thanks, that is awesome!
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:06 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Keep the motivational posts coming!
I'm not meaning to be a dick about it, just pointing out what we're all seeing here.

Maybe you and your team are getting ready to start cutting, gutting, fabbing, and making this an actual race car.

All we're seeing are minor bolt-on mods and a reluctance to really tear into the car. I truly hope you prove us wrong.
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:16 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Is this fantasy build ever going to start?
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Old 07-17-2018, 08:55 AM   #140 (permalink)
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You really think you would be replacing a diff during a race? Multiple times? There is a time limit on crossing the finish line
Agreed - Exactly what we're trying to avoid.
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Old 07-17-2018, 09:00 AM   #141 (permalink)
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https://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/

This 1996 Toyota 4Runner Proves IFS Doesn’t Have to Be Weak

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyo...tions-now.html

post #27. it is a really nice setup, saw it out there at the first trail hero, hopefully it is out there again this year. I would love to do this to my wifes car it would beat the hell out of a solid axle for a 99% street rig, saving my pennies now so it will probably be a decade and fully fleshed out design by the time I can get to it


edit: so FROR is using "03 and up" front end parts, this thread being about an 06 should match and be buildable that way. like I said, I've never paid much attention to the newer stuff.
Great compilation of threads! I spoke with Brian about this months ago and it sounds similar to our current plan - but our RCVs will be stronger! Toyota 8", next gen RCVs, ARB. And we'll have ATRAC (unless it becomes a hinderance) to help save the front diff.

If you all see anything different in his setup, let me know. Here's what I got from the article:

"Under the 3/16-inch-thick skidplate, Ellinger replaced the 7 1/2-inch front differential with an 8-inch differential from a later model 4Runner along with a custom intermediate shaft, housing, and mounts. It uses 4.88 gears and an ARB Air Locker with super-strong chromoly RCV axleshafts that are 30-spline throughout (like an upgraded Toyota solid axle) to make the whole thing live, even with 37-inch-tall tires. Tacomas use the same front axle components, and all of these parts are interchangeable."
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Old 07-17-2018, 09:59 AM   #142 (permalink)
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You just quoted the article, what would we know that's any different...you talked to him

This thread is like a trainwreck of stupidity I can't stay away from
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:03 AM   #143 (permalink)
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You just quoted the article, what would we know that's any different...you talked to him

This thread is like a trainwreck of stupidity I can't stay away from
I spoke with him Months Ago (see post above), long before our plans were laid. At that time, we were aiming for a F9 or a custom Diamond IFS Center, but it didn't work out. We spoke about this 8" setup briefly, but I wonder if others on here know more. If I'm not missing anything, then our current plans are confirmed.

And I cannot help but respond to your comments - I've been biting my tongue for a while now. You have 25K+ posts on Pirate - I hope at least some small percentage of them have been productive. Otherwise, you have wasted a ton of time. Given your comments of this build thread, why don't you just unsubscribe?
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:06 AM   #144 (permalink)
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I'm not meaning to be a dick about it, just pointing out what we're all seeing here.

Maybe you and your team are getting ready to start cutting, gutting, fabbing, and making this an actual race car.

All we're seeing are minor bolt-on mods and a reluctance to really tear into the car. I truly hope you prove us wrong.
Hey, I get it - patience is the key. And believe me, I am more anxious to tear into it than anyone else on here. I'm about to post a small update below.
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:24 AM   #145 (permalink)
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Update:
I've been out of town the past week, but here is a quick update on this build:
1) Our new Warn ZEON Platinum 10-S winch arrived yesterday. It's a thing of beauty and the remote will definitely come in handly for our co-driver at KOH!



2) I knocked out a few small projects, including swapping in a new O2 sensor damaged when we did the Y-Pipe cat delete (this 4.7L V8 is really squeezed in there). The new sensor eliminted the CEL I was getting. I'm still waiting on the URD MAF Calibrator to arrive and will install my AEM gauges before we do final tuning.



3) The Salvage doors arrive on Wed. Then I'll check out the internal bracing and see how much more we want to cut. I'm hoping they are really light in already gutted condition.

4) We are now only down to one sponsor need for tires. I've reached out to BFG, Goodyear, Maxxis, Nitto, Cooper, and Falken. So far Falken and Maxxis have shown strongest interest.

5) I've finalized plans with two additional sponsors. More to come on these in a few weeks.

Finally, the DD should be back from paint by the end of next week at the latest and ready for reassembly. As soon as it is done, the interior tear-down on this one will begin along with the doors and front fenders. Then the transformation will really begin to take shape. Thanks for your patience!
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:34 AM   #146 (permalink)
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So far Falken and Maxxis have shown strongest interest.
Do not send them a link to this thread
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Old 07-17-2018, 05:38 PM   #147 (permalink)
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I spoke with him Months Ago (see post above), long before our plans were laid. At that time, we were aiming for a F9 or a custom Diamond IFS Center, but it didn't work out. We spoke about this 8" setup briefly, but I wonder if others on here know more. If I'm not missing anything, then our current plans are confirmed.

And I cannot help but respond to your comments - I've been biting my tongue for a while now. You have 25K+ posts on Pirate - I hope at least some small percentage of them have been productive. Otherwise, you have wasted a ton of time. Given your comments of this build thread, why don't you just unsubscribe?
I only saw his rig in 2016, so your information is more current than mine other than it seems to have been holding up well for the last couple of years of use and abuse

there was a glitch in time and space, i've probably got 25k posts in chit-chat that magically appeared one day post count doesn't equal anything on this board. they'd turn it off, but then the bots would just do more hotlinking
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Old 07-17-2018, 08:53 PM   #148 (permalink)
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Why not break new ground and figure out how to stuff a Tundra 9” front IFS diff in this build, lead not follow. Even better would be the complete Tundra drivetrain, it pretty serious beef. I also want to advise against retaining the ABS and therefore ATRAC. Every Toyota ABS I have dealt with is very sensitive and makes stopping in the dirt dangerous because it kicks in way to early. ATRAC is also worthless if the rotors get wet or muddy. Go find my Tundra build thread and you will see why. I will never rely on fake lockers again, they will fail you when you need them the most. Three wheel drive at Johnson Valley equals more winching than you will ever want in a lifetime.


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Old 07-18-2018, 06:38 AM   #149 (permalink)
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I spoke with him Months Ago (see post above), long before our plans were laid. At that time, we were aiming for a F9 or a custom Diamond IFS Center, but it didn't work out. We spoke about this 8" setup briefly, but I wonder if others on here know more. If I'm not missing anything, then our current plans are confirmed.

And I cannot help but respond to your comments - I've been biting my tongue for a while now. You have 25K+ posts on Pirate - I hope at least some small percentage of them have been productive. Otherwise, you have wasted a ton of time. Given your comments of this build thread, why don't you just unsubscribe?
I used to contribute a lot to this site back when people did build threads galore and there was a lot of tech being shared since the aftermarket was A LOT smaller. I have been out of the "hardcore" side of this for well over a decade and prefer my mild wheeler/camping rig. I have been around this hobby for a long long time and built/helped build a few rigs, was on an XRRA/KOH team forever ago as well.

My opinion of what your are attempting here, while admirable, is more keyboard clatter than a build. We are on page 3 now and you have installed an O2 sensor and an exhaust while chasing sponsors and ordering up a winch and some extra doors. There is no chance this will be done in time, let alone competitive, tested and ready to race KOH. Good luck and I hope you prove me wrong. Won't be the fits time.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:06 AM   #150 (permalink)
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-I dig it so build it like you want. Everyone has to learn their own way; for some of us it's the hard way but it's the only way we know. I get it.
-With that said, this a heck of an under taking and sounds like you're going learn a ton of things as result of the build including practicality. You're building a race truck not a dream trail truck. A race truck gets the shit beat out of it unmercifully but still has to get the job done while you can take it easy enough on a trail truck that you have the luxury of trying to maintain something a bit more refined. Don't get me wrong, maintaining a clean-ish race truck is possible but more for a really seasoned guy. Don't take things ridiculously seriously (not saying you are) and remember to have fun with it.
-Most of the guys on this board are full of shit so listen to your gut and those you trust. Good luck with the build.
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