Steel City Racing: King of the Hammers 2019 Toyota 4Runner IFS 4600 Build Thread - Page 9 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:50 AM   #201 (permalink)
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Do us all a favor and go find a dirt road and beat the piss out of your truck. Right now. Go find a beach, dunes, ash, whatever and beat the poop out of it, take it on a trail, some rocks, loose gravel hill climbs, and beat the snot out of it. You will find out very quickly that the traction control and abs is this truck is a joke, ESPECIALLY with 35Ē tires. Ask me how I know.

Please tell me! How do you know??

Increasing the rolling diameter without reconfiguring your abs/wheel speed makes taking a sharp turn ON DRY PAVEMENT activate the abs. The abs in this car is the worst STREET CAR ABS IVE SEEN ON A MODERN VEHICLE. It does not let you slow wheel speed on loose surfaces, it does not let you steer with your right foot. It makes crude, time consuming calculations, based (now with 35s) on false information to overcome a traction scenario it wasnít designed for. Oh yeah and thereís this neat thing Toyota does where if your throttle down for a few seconds and the truck doesnít think youíre moving or that youíre spinning, itíll shut the throttle until you remove and reapply your foot.

This is a race car. Have you ever driven a race car? Do any of them have traction aides? Of course they do! Because they are engineered and tested and developed specifically for that application and often reconfigured from driver/testing input, and also almost always adjustable so that if itís a little intrusive you can turn it down, or if it makes you feel safe and comfortable (the slowest way around a race track), you turn it up. Iíve met drivers so good they change traction control at speed for specific corners (mind you I come from sports car racing).

I donít care about your deadline, social media, sponsors, t shirts, planned Gatorade stops or anything else relating to this build. But I can tell you with a degree of certainty that if you donít test this truck from now until race day and work the bugs out every step of the way (read ATRAC!!!), you will fail miserably. And maybe that means you almost finish the race, maybe that means you were so close, but when you set off from the starting line and that first thing breaks or that first bug rears itís head, youíre gonna be pissed.

ATRAC may shut off above 3000, but you wonít be up there constantly, and when the rpms drop, here comes your old friend ATRAC. Iíve been in the sand, Iíve been in the snow, Iíve been in high wheel spin circumstances. DONT FUCKING USE ATRAC. Iíve read this whole thread and itís clear you will rip it out if it doesnít work, but that plays to a bigger meaning. You could find out today that it wonít work. You could find out tomorrow that lowering the seat is a must for your helmet, and that the fuel mileage is fucked when you put your nifty maf tricker in.

Donít mean to be mean but holy hell, go testing.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:55 AM   #202 (permalink)
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OP - what's your experience building real 4x4s, wheeling actual technical rock trails, and driving in the desert at attack speeds?

Yes, we're being blunt with you. This isn't toyota4runner.circlejerk where there are 20+ page threads on "plastidip mods" and "cupholder mods" and "ATRAC switch mods" (protip - you splice in one switch on one signal wire to fault the system). You're getting real advice in here based on real experience with these trucks, and real advice from drivers who have actually raced KOH.

Then you're getting defensive and ignoring almost all of that advice. I'm not sure why.

Last edited by yotota; 07-22-2018 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:39 PM   #203 (permalink)
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[QUOTE I'm not sure why.[/QUOTE]

Because he is really building the FIBERGLASS VILLAGE MALL CRAWLING QUEEN OF THE MALLET 2019 4 RUNNER. All I got for today! OP welcome to pirate
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Old 07-23-2018, 07:59 AM   #204 (permalink)
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I raced this year with a 12 gallon cell. 22 gal with your motor setup will be fine.
22 Gal cell ordered! Hurley and other racers, how many spares do you take to KOH? 3, 4, or more?
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:02 AM   #205 (permalink)
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I’ve read this whole thread and it’s clear you will rip it out if it doesn’t work, but that plays to a bigger meaning. You could find out today that it won’t work. You could find out tomorrow that lowering the seat is a must for your helmet, and that the fuel mileage is fucked when you put your nifty maf tricker in.

Don’t mean to be mean but holy hell, go testing.
Love your passion. I'd have the ABS Off switch installed as we speak, but I ran out of electrical connectors. By this time next week, I'll have two switches that:

1) Turn ABS (and ATRAC, VSC, TRAC) All Off
2) Turn VSC and TRAC OFF + ATRAC On

Once I get the seats and fuel cell installed, I'll then test both and determine what situation ATRAC does well in, if any. If none, ABS (and everything else) will be switched off permanently.

Note the URD MAF Calibrator increases power and efficiency, helps with a quicker throttle response, and most 4Runners have actually seen increased MPG. I'll be testing this too - it was completed last Friday and should today.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:17 AM   #206 (permalink)
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22 Gal cell ordered! Hurley and other racers, how many spares do you take to KOH? 3, 4, or more?
This year having just finished the car before the race and being totally broke. I had zero spare parts.

Everyone is different. But I prefer to build the car right and not have to have a bunch of spares. I carry a u-joint and limited tools in the car. I keep a tire, battery, and alternator in the pits with fluids and other hose ends and hoses. You're not going to have time to make major repairs and still finish the race.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:21 AM   #207 (permalink)
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This year having just finished the car before the race and being totally broke. I had zero spare parts.

Everyone is different. But I prefer to build the car right and not have to have a bunch of spares. I carry a u-joint and limited tools in the car. I keep a tire, battery, and alternator in the pits with fluids and other hose ends and hoses. You're not going to have time to make major repairs and still finish the race.
Thanks. I was thinking driveshafts, alternator, starter, spare tire, fluids, belts, hoses, etc in the car. Battery, fuel, etc in the pits.

How many spare tires do you bring in total (not counting the 4 on the vehicle)? 3, 4, or More?
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:35 AM   #208 (permalink)
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Thanks. I was thinking driveshafts, alternator, starter, spare tire, fluids, belts, hoses, etc in the car. Battery, fuel, etc in the pits.

How many spare tires do you bring in total (not counting the 4 on the vehicle)? 3, 4, or More?
One in each pit. But a lot of guys kill tires and need more.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:03 AM   #209 (permalink)
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One in each pit. But a lot of guys kill tires and need more.
Perfect - thank you!
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:52 AM   #210 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Charles4x4 View Post
Love your passion. I'd have the ABS Off switch installed as we speak, but I ran out of electrical connectors. By this time next week, I'll have two switches that:

1) Turn ABS (and ATRAC, VSC, TRAC) All Off
2) Turn VSC and TRAC OFF + ATRAC On

Once I get the seats and fuel cell installed, I'll then test both and determine what situation ATRAC does well in, if any. If none, ABS (and everything else) will be switched off permanently.

Note the URD MAF Calibrator increases power and efficiency, helps with a quicker throttle response, and most 4Runners have actually seen increased MPG. I'll be testing this too - it was completed last Friday and should today.

I can say with confidence that you want to completely disable both those systems. The ATRAC was NOT designed for extended use- the actuator will overheat and cause problems trying to manage that much wheel slippage. Just disable it completely.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:10 PM   #211 (permalink)
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I can say with confidence that you want to completely disable both those systems. The ATRAC was NOT designed for extended use- the actuator will overheat and cause problems trying to manage that much wheel slippage. Just disable it completely.
This is exactly where I'm guessing we'll end up!
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Old 07-23-2018, 01:01 PM   #212 (permalink)
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You had mentioned an alternator and starter for spares. Good idea to have them there , but if there is even a doubt replace them now with new denso units like what is on now. FYI the starter is under the intake. And since you have been messing with the exhaust make sure all your o2 sensor wires are loomed and held back . You will blow the efi fuse and be dead on the coarse from a minor melt.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:27 PM   #213 (permalink)
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You had mentioned an alternator and starter for spares. Good idea to have them there , but if there is even a doubt replace them now with new denso units like what is on now. FYI the starter is under the intake. And since you have been messing with the exhaust make sure all your o2 sensor wires are loomed and held back . You will blow the efi fuse and be dead on the coarse from a minor melt.
Great points. The spare parts will be the ones on the 4runner today. I'll be putting new denso (probably rebuilt, not new) Starter, Alternator, etc on before we hit testing. Don't want to put them on too early, or too late.

Just put new O2 sensors in (one blew when I used my impact to get the old Y-Pipe out) and the wires are loomed and held back in OEM position in the metal wire clips. We'll be carrying extra fuses and some basic wiring/connectors with us.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:49 PM   #214 (permalink)
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changing out a starter on the trail or in the pits on the UZ engine is going to bring the suck.
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Old 07-23-2018, 05:05 PM   #215 (permalink)
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If you plan on rebuilt units than you may as well leave it alone . There are to many variables of fawkery that can take place on rebuilds. Plus you will have a core charge on a rebuild if no core so add that in too. I used to know off the top of my head , but I don't know now what the amperage was on them and one from a lexus may have more amps because of all the bells and whistles they have . One of the 1uz swap threads had some info on it . Another thing is if you do change the starter have a knock sensor pig tail on hand and change that too . It is another thing that could cause a poor finish because you will be in limp mode.
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:39 PM   #216 (permalink)
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We're excited to announce that Cooper Tire and KMC Wheels have signed up to sponsor this King of the Hammers build.

We'll be running 315/70R17 Cooper Discoverer STT Pros:


These will be mounted on 17" KMC XD222 Enduro Beadlock Wheels:


With Cooper and KMC both on board, our sponsorship for KOH 2019 is officially full. We'll have more to show on the tires and wheels, and from our other sponsors over the coming months.
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:54 PM   #217 (permalink)
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Quick Build Update:
- RockSolidToys Rear 4-Link is done and ready to be installed once the front suspension is on
- Currie Rear RockJock 60 is in the middle of being built
- Salvage Doors (4) should be here next week. Evidently they were were stuck in a "rail delay" somewhere between CA and Chicago.
- Salvage Liftgate and Sport Hood will ship out of NY tomorrow.
- Jaz Pro Sport II 22 Gal Fuel cell, Arctec Industries mounts, and Allstar 2.5" filler hose in the mail.
- Still working on Alltec Baffles and plumbing conversion, which I still need to learn a lot about
- AEM Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge, AEM Fuel Pressure Gauge, and URD 170 Deg Thermostat will be installed when URD MAF Calibrator arrives
- PRP Ivan Stewart Pro Seats and Harnesses should be shipped out soon
- Cooper Discoverer STT Pro Tires ordered
- KMC XD222 Enduro Beadlock Wheels will be ordered this week
- ABS (and ATRAC, VSC, and TRAC) Defeat Switch will be finished next week
- Atlas II 3.8 Case and A750F Adapter will likely be ordered next week

The salvage parts arriving next week will literally replace every single removable piece of sheet metal on the 4Runner.

I'm tracking every component of the build in a build-plan and checking things off the list as we go. Still a lot left to do, but having the sponsorship portion of the build completed is a big win!
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:33 PM   #218 (permalink)
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Today I spent time with our team in CA nailing down a high-level timeline for the build that I wanted to share:

Phase I (May to Early-Sept in AL):
- Engine Upgrades
- Fuel System Install
- Strip Interior, Install Seats, Gauges, Electrical, Blue/Amber Lights, etc
- All body modifications (doors, fenders, liftgate, hood)
- Front Suspension, Rear Suspension, Steering, Axles, Front RCVs, Bumpers/Sliders/Skids all being prototyped and tested in CA

--- 4Runner goes to CA in Mid-Sept ---

Phase II (Mid-Sept to Oct in CA):
- Front Suspension and Steering installed
- Front Axle Built and RCVs installed
- Atlas II installed along with cross member built
- Rear Suspension and Rear Axle installed
- Front/Rear Bumpers, Sliders, and Skid Plates installed
- Roll Cage Installed

Phase III (Nov to Dec at JV):
- First round of On-Site testing in JV
- Fix, Revise, Rebuild
- Test, Fix, Test and Test Some More

Phase IV (Jan in CA):
- Vehicle Wrap Installed
- Final Preparations
- Contingency Time for Whatever Surprises Come

Phase I (Feb 4-8 at JV):
- Pre-Run
- Race
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:56 PM   #219 (permalink)
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FYI you should mount the seats to the cage.
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Old 07-26-2018, 12:05 AM   #220 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Charles4x4 View Post
Today I spent time with our team in CA nailing down a high-level timeline for the build that I wanted to share:



Phase I (May to Early-Sept in AL):

- Engine Upgrades

- Fuel System Install

- Strip Interior, Install Seats, Gauges, Electrical, Blue/Amber Lights, etc

- All body modifications (doors, fenders, liftgate, hood)

- Front Suspension, Rear Suspension, Steering, Axles, Front RCVs, Bumpers/Sliders/Skids all being prototyped and tested in CA



--- 4Runner goes to CA in Mid-Sept ---



Phase II (Mid-Sept to Oct in CA):

- Front Suspension and Steering installed

- Front Axle Built and RCVs installed

- Atlas II installed along with cross member built

- Rear Suspension and Rear Axle installed

- Front/Rear Bumpers, Sliders, and Skid Plates installed

- Roll Cage Installed



Phase III (Nov to Dec at JV):

- First round of On-Site testing in JV

- Fix, Revise, Rebuild

- Test, Fix, Test and Test Some More



Phase IV (Jan in CA):

- Vehicle Wrap Installed

- Final Preparations

- Contingency Time for Whatever Surprises Come



Phase I (Feb 4-8 at JV):

- Pre-Run

- Race


The lightbar man!!!!!
Whenís the lightbar going in?????


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Old 07-26-2018, 07:30 AM   #221 (permalink)
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The lightbar man!!!!!
Whenís the lightbar going in?????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Phase 1 for sure. Thats where all the bolt-on stuff gets installed.
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Old 07-26-2018, 11:23 AM   #222 (permalink)
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I've read this thread from start to finish a few times and check back to see the updates. I'm glad to finally see a V8 runner in the race. I've been out there 3x and we built a 4600 1st gen runner and raced it out there 3x. Showing up ready to race is a huge undertaking, Finishing the race is another story. Every year our team gets further but have yet to finish. It's getting very expensive and unless you are a big name, You won't get but so much sponsorship money. This is the most brutal punishment your runner will ever get. Do it right from the get go. There has been a lot of good advice giving, but it seems you only want it if you agree with it. Let me explain.

-Your Atrac thingy, Why even bother with the install, wiring/tricking computer for something that isn't really designed to do what you want it to do?
-you will be in 4WD Hi through the desert sections, front locker off, coming into the rocky sections, turn on ARB. How much simpler does it get?
-Why in the world would you replace doors with salvage doors and ship across country? The runner will be dented up when race is over, just gut and cut your doors. that's money wasted. A Sport Hood? Why? To have a scoop? That will be nice for the dust.
-Lots of high dollar nice gadgets going on this for sure. What's the budget?
-Weight? What's the target weight?
-Cage internal or external?
-you are starting with a great powerplant in a heavy pig. I think I would be figuring out where I could shed weight.
-leaving dash in or gutting it?
-as far as spare tires you asked about, I would have at least 3. 1 mounted, 2 in pits. I would rather have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.
-someone mentioned replacing starter, alt. etc. I agree 100%, but only if you use the factory units not some bullshit reman crap.
-listen to the ones who have raced. Learn from there mistakes.
-I want to see this project finished, and I will be cheering for ya at the starting line.

Last edited by trmartin; 07-26-2018 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 07-26-2018, 01:00 PM   #223 (permalink)
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Following this with cautious optimism. It would be awesome to see an ifs toyota do really well against all the solid axle jeeps.

Of all the plans I've seen so far no mention of a roll cage. Possibly the most important part?

I just can't imagine relying on some computer crap in a race like this. Spool or detroit in the back and an ARB in front. Done.

Also no mention of what experience the driver and codriver have. Here's hoping there's no delays in the whole master plan cuz man you're pushing it.

That being said I'll be following the build and rooting you on at the race. Best of Luck.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:32 PM   #224 (permalink)
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FYI you should mount the seats to the cage.
Yes, the mounts will be integrated into the cage when it is built. This is required by KOH rules:

"3) All seats must be securely mounted to frame of vehicle and mounts must be properly reinforced to keep seat from moving in relationship to the frame.
4) Adjustable track-type seat mounts must be securely mounted to frame of vehicle to allow no lateral or vertical movement between seat and frame or mounting track and frame."
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:36 PM   #225 (permalink)
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Yes, the mounts will be integrated into the cage when it is built. This is required by KOH rules:

"3) All seats must be securely mounted to frame of vehicle and mounts must be properly reinforced to keep seat from moving in relationship to the frame.
4) Adjustable track-type seat mounts must be securely mounted to frame of vehicle to allow no lateral or vertical movement between seat and frame or mounting track and frame."
In that case, donít even fuck around with the seats until your building the cage.
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