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-   -   Steel City Racing: King of the Hammers 2019 Toyota 4Runner IFS 4600 Build Thread (https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/2660392-steel-city-racing-king-hammers-2019-toyota-4runner-ifs-4600-build-thread.html)

Charles4x4 06-18-2018 11:24 PM

Steel City Racing: King of the Hammers 2019 Toyota 4Runner IFS 4600 Build Thread
 
Steel City Racing: King of the Hammers 2019 Toyota 4Runner IFS 4600 Build Thread

Follow this build on Social Media at

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SteelCityRacing4x4/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/steelcityracing4x4/

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...87&oe=5CE887A3

***ADDITION FROM AFTER KOH 2019***
I've had a ton of requests for a Full Build Sheet in the First Post, so here you go (warning, it's extensive):
• Vehicle: 2006 Toyota 4Runner V8 4WD Limited with 100K Miles and No Rust
• Engine: Toyota 4.7L V8
• Transmission: Toyota A750F with Toyota Transmission Cooler
• Tires: 35” Cooper Discovery STT Pros (315/70R17)
• Wheels: KMC XD222 Enduro 17” Beadlocks
• Front Suspension System: Marlin Crawler RCLT (Rock Crawler Long Travel) 3.5” Extended on each side (first set ever produced)
• Front Suspension Shocks: Icon Vehicle Dynamics 2.5” Coilovers with Remote Reservoir and CDCV (Compression Dampening Control Valve) and 2.5” Air Bumps
• Front Differential: Toyota 8” Differential with Marlin Crawler Upgrades
• Front Axle Shafts: RCV Performance Gen II Toyota Axle Shafts (first set ever produced)
• Front Gears & Locker: Nitro 4.56 Gears and ARB Air Locker from East Coast Gear Supply
• Steering: Marlin Crawler MarRack (second set ever produced besides BigMike’s own set) and 4x4Labs Custom Steering Cooler
• Transfer Case: Advance Adapters 3.8 Atlas II with Adapter Plate and RockSolidToys Speed Sensor Adapter
• Front and Rear Driveshafts: Drivelines Incorporated Custom Driveshafts
• Rear Suspension System: RockSolidToys Rear 4-Link
• Rear Suspension Shocks: Icon Vehicle Dynamics 3” Progressive Rate Coils with 2.5” Shocks with Remote Reservoir and CDCV (Compression Dampening Control Valve) and 2.5” Air Bumps
• Rear Axle: Dynatrac ProRock 60 with 4.56 Gears and ARB Air Locker
• Front Bumper: 4x4Labs 4th Gen 4Runner Front High Clearance Bumper made from AR400 Steel (first one ever produced)
• Front Winch: Warn Zeon 10-S Platinum with Factor 55 Prolink and 4x4Labs Hawse Fairlead
• Rear Bumper: 4x4Labs 4th Gen 4Runner Rear High Clearance Bumper made from AR400 Steel (first one ever produced)
• Rear Winch: Warn 9.0Rc with Factor 55 Prolink and 4x4Labs Hawse Fairlead
• Rock Sliders: 4x4Labs 4th Gen 4Runner Sliders made from AR400 Steel (first one ever produced)
• Skid Plate System: 4x4Labs 4th Gen 4Runner Skid Plate System (3 Parts) made from AR400 Steel (first one ever produced)
• Front Fenders: Fiberwerx 4th Gen Fiberglass 4.5” Bulge Fenders
• Air Intake and Thermostat: aFe Power Magnum Flow Pro System with Pre-Filter and URD 170 Degree Thermostat
• Headers: Doug Thorley 4th Gen 4Runner V8 Headers
• Exhaust: High Flow Catalytic Converters (2) and Flowmaster 50 Series Muffler with custom routing
• Engine Tuner: Underdog Racing Development (URD) Universal Tuner with AEM AFR and AEM Fuel Pressure Gauges
• Fuel Cell: Jaz Pro Sport 22 Gallon Tank with Alltech “No Foam” Baffles and Classic Instruments Fuel Sender
• Fuel System: Aermotive Apex Phantom System with Jet Siphon connected with Russell Stainless Steel Lines and Connectors
• Onboard Air Systems: PowerTank Race Ready 10lb Tank System with Triple Roll-Bar Mount and ARB HD Air Compressor for Locking Differentials
• Onboard Recovery Gear: BubbaRope 7/8”x30’ Power Stretch Recovery Rope, (4) Gator-Jay PRO Synthetic Shackles, and 3”x20’ Nylon Tow Strap
• Battery: Odyssey Extreme Series with Charger and Billet Aluminum Mount
• Seats, Harnesses, and Safety Nets: PRP Pro Series Ivan Steward Ironman Seats, PRP 5.3 SFI 16.1 Harnesses, and custom PRP Safety Nets
• Custom Roll Cage and Fabrication: 2” DOM Roll Cage and Tons of Custom Fabrication by Otwell Fabrication in Lucerne Valley, CA
• Navigation: LeadNav Pro Pack Software, iPad 10.5 Wifi+Cellular, LifeProof Nuud Case, 3.1Amp Onboard Charging System, and Dual xGPS160 Puck with RAM Mounts
• Vehicle Wrap: Syndicate Offroad Wrap Printing and Installation with Jeff Williams Custom “Old School TRD” Wrap Design
• Communications: Rugged Radios Desert Series 2-Place Race Intercom and 60-Watt Radio
• Onboard Jack: ProEagle “The Beast” Big Wheel Jack with Aluminum Mount
• Safety: Alpinestars Delta Fire Suits, Alpinestars Tech 1 Gloves, NeckGen Rev2 Head and Neck Restraint, Impact 1320 Side Air Wired Helmets
• Miscellaneous: Blue Sea 9002e Master Kill Switch, (3) Onboard Fire Extinguishers, Secondary Door Locks, Custom Brake Lines, 2” Fuel Filler System, Rear Race Light, Front View Rock Camera hooked to Pioneer Touch-Screen Head Unit, Front HID Headlights, GoPro with Roll Bar Mount, Race Ready Rear-View and Quick Disconnect Side-View Mirrors, (4) Roll-Bar Grab Handles, (3) Hunsaker 11 Gal QuickFill Jugs, HD Battery Terminals, Spare Alternator and Serpentine Belt, Etc.

***BACK TO THE STORY FROM EARLY 2018***
To start, let’s go back to this past February – specifically the Saturday after King of the Hammers 2018 ended. This is the day when most teams begin dreaming about their 2019 KOH builds on their way home from the lakebed.

The two days before, like many of you, my wife and I watched most the 2018 King of the Hammers EMC and 4400 Main Event coverage live. And, like many of you, I wished I was there.

So, 4-months ago, I decided to do something about it…

My first thought was...we'll...hold that thought for now.

My second thought was honestly of the millions of reasons why it wouldn't work out:
- I have a day job, an amazing wife, and two awesome girls who all keep me busy
- I have a budget, but certainly not enough savings for all I'm going to need
- At the time, I had no crew, no sponsors, and no race vehicle to start with

But, more importantly, my first thought was...I CAN DO THIS:
- I believe that God gave me the gifts of being a creator, builder, and engineer who loves to learn new things and can envision the possible
- I have never backed down from a challenge. I am determined, passionate, resourceful, and love to work hard - I always finish what I start.
- I have never taken the conventional route and it has always led me to amazing experiences - why start now?
- I love offroading and vehicle fabrication. I can see the lines at high speed and envision unconventional lines in the rocks. I love staring at a vehicle and imagining what it can become.
- I believe life is a collection of experiences. The most amazing ones typically require a difficult question at the beginning: “Should I actually try this crazy thing?” I have learned that the hardest part is always the same - Starting.

So, this is me Starting. What is my plan? Let's find out...

Charles4x4 06-18-2018 11:35 PM

From watching the 2018 KOH EMC, I knew I wanted to be in the 4600 Stock Class. None of the other classes really fit what I love – seeing an OEM looking vehicle doing amazing things. The Stock Class vehicles look like the vehicles I can relate to – those in the “Everyman’s” garage. While there is no doubt that they are amazing, the 4400, 4500, and 4600 class vehicles just aren’t what I was looking for.

Next, like many of you, I'm a Toyota guy through and through. I have had a 1st gen Tacoma, a 3rd gen Tacoma, 80 series and 100 series land cruisers, and three 1st gen 4Runners. So, I now needed to research the best possible 4600 class Toyota rig.
For pure budget reasons, a 1st Gen 4Runner was a no-brainer at first. They’re cheap, reliable, and light – what else more could you want… Well…how about power for one thing? Or wheel travel for the desert? Or the ability to survive KOH’s relentless abuse?

Many drivers have done amazing things with 1st Gen 4Runners at KOH and I certainly commend them. But I quickly saw some pretty sizeable limitations and, when my back-of-the-napkin budget for my dream 1st Gen 4Runner went through the roof, I killed the idea.

After enough time and research had passed, I began to see that a combination of driver skill and patience, vehicle strength and reliability, and a build plan filled with elegant simplicity could be some of the keys to success at KOH.

So, in a search for elegant simplicity, I stumbled upon 2-3 different threads where industry experts and KOH legends were talking about 4th Gen 4Runners. They all seemed to reach the same consensus – a 4th Gen 4Runner could actually do really well in the 4600 Stock Class. It’s got an extremely reliable platform, strong 4.7L V8, stout transmission, IFS Coilover based front suspension, 4-link rear suspension, and an entry price that has dropped substantially over the past few years. And of course, it’s built by Toyota – so it has to be solid.

But, when I kept reading in anticipation of a build thread, I was surprised to see that nobody seemed to be able to pull it off.

Well, as you can tell in my post above, I’m the type of person who can pull it off. So I dove in with both feet. I researched the 4th Gen. Put together a rigorous budget. And then, staring at the bottom line figure, sat in shock at the price tag necessary to build it right.

I went back to the Ultra4 rulebook that I have practically memorized and made a huge realization:
Dave Cole and the leaders of KOH intentionally invented the EMC 4600 Stock Class to be a product showcase and testing ground for offroad manufacturers, fabrications, and corporations. I.e. it’s the ultimate class to attract sponsors.

So, now I had a vision. I had a solid, but still seemingly unachievable plan. And, most of all, I had the will to make it happen. Now all I needed was a way.

First, realizing that I couldn’t pull this off alone, I started seeking out sponsors that both had amazing products that were a perfect fit for this build and could really benefit from KOH exposure. I shared my vision of how I believed a well-engineered IFS Coilover Based 4th Gen Toyota 4Runner, backed by an amazing team and sponsors, can strongly compete in the KOH EMC 4600 Stock class. And to my surprise, many got it and jumped on board.

Here is my vision for this build, written back in February and it still holds true today:
As many of you know, solid axle Jeep or buggy based rigs have dominated KOH EMCin the past. Therefore, this build will garner a lot of attention simply because of how different it is – I will most likely be the only modern IFS Coilover based vehicle in all of EMC and will turn heads.

I personally believe the vast majority of consumers honestly cannot relate to a 4400 rig, which is where all the IFS coilover exposure has occurred to date. This build is our chance to grab the consumer’s attention!

And we’ll be doing so in a modern Toyota 4Runner that matches or at least resembles the vehicle most consumers can actually relate to. To me, watching a 4400 rig is intimidating and far from achievable for the “Every Man”. This build will change all of that. And that is what gets sponsors excited – it’s pure marketing gold!

Charles4x4 06-18-2018 11:37 PM

As an aside – and for reference as we progess through the build – here is my quick highlights summary of the KOH 4600 Rules:

4600 Stock Class Restrictions (Summarized from Ultra4 Rulebook v4.4):

Body:
- Complete Unmodified stock frame
- Complete stock body (can cut holes for roll cage and rocker panel protection)
- Half doors are acceptable but must open and close
- Stock glass not required
- Front/Rear inner fenders must be complete
- Fenders can be trimmed to no more than 2" gap from tire at full compression
- No more than 1" body lift
- Factory Headlights are required
- Aftermarket bumpers are fine or can be eliminated

DriveTrain:
- Stock engine (no forced induction) required but performance mods allowed
- Stock transmission required
- Any transfer case is permitted
- Any axles are permitted
- Any driveshafts are permitted
- Mechanical steering required but hydro assist okay

Suspension:
- Wheelbase cannot be lengthened more than 3"
- Suspension configuration must remain consistent from stock (leafs must stay leafs, coils must stay coils, coilovers must remain coilovers) and no fancy leaf configurations (quarter eliptical not allowed)
- Suspension linkage can be changed in any configuration
- 1 shock per tire/wheel at max of 2.65" diameter and 14" stroke with no air bumps allowed
- No bypass shocks and shocks must connect axle to chassis

Other:
- Max 35" tire

Charles4x4 06-18-2018 11:39 PM

Now, back to the build: My outreach began in earnest in mid to late February. Since then, each day I have been blessed to find more and more friends, sponsors, and partners ready to jump in and join our team.

We created a team name: Steel City Racing
(please follow us on social media by clicking the links at the top of the first post)

I spoke with sponsors – some bought in instantly. Others waited to see if others would sign up first. Some told their friends and the word began to spread. One by one, the vision, and honestly my own personally bucket-list level dream, started to became a reality.

Fast forward to today – June 2018 – and I can tell you with extreme confidence that this build is going to happen. We will be on the starting line next February at KOH 2019. We will be in an amazing 4th Gen IFS Coilover based 4Runner. We will stand out. We will compete.

This is the start of an amazing adventure.

Please follow us on social media. Please subscribe to this build thread. Please support us with your comments, ideas, and prayers. Please join us!

Charles4x4 06-18-2018 11:42 PM

Now that the vision is laid, let’s get into the actual build:
Phase 0: Buy a solid 4th Gen 4Runner that fits our build plan!

Requirements:
’06-09 4Runner, Low Miles (~100K), V8, 4WD, Sport or Limited Trim - it has to both race and look good while racing ��

I’m pleased to announce that Phase 0 is now complete. How?

Over the past 12-months, I have been buying, restoring, and selling 1st Gen SR5 Turbo 4Runners on the side and putting the profit aside for my KOH build. As an answer to a prayer, I was able to post and sell my latest 4Runner and my fully built 80-Series Land Cruiser – both the same week.

The proceeds from these sales allowed me to:
1) Buy a daily driver for me (another 1st Gen SR5 Turbo 4Runner – for some reason I just love them)
2) Buy the KOH Base Vehicle ready for transformation
3) Build the Budget for Phase 1 and 2 KOH Parts

It’s pretty amazing how God can align the stars. Selling the 4Runner and Land Cruiser in 1 week and then concurrently buying another DD 4Runner and the KOH 4Runner all within a span of less than 2-weeks was amazing, and a great reaffirmation that this KOH build is meant to be.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...66&oe=5BB93F5B

Charles4x4 06-18-2018 11:44 PM

Next, we are already underway with:
Phase 1: Engine Performance Upgrades!

Based on all of my research and assistance from fellow forum members, there isn’t a ton that can be done to the 4.7L V8 without pursuing forced induction. And unfortunately forced induction, unless OEM factory equipped, isn’t allowed in the 4600 class.

The stock 4.7L V8 is rated at 260 @ 5,400 rpm Horsepower and 306 @ 3,400 rpm Torque. Our goal, which may never been fully verified, is to get above 300 Horsepower and around 350 FtLb Torque.

How?

Well, let me introduce our first round of sponsors:
aFe Power:
Their 54-82502 Magnum Force Stage-2 Si Pro 5R Cold Air Intake is a no brainer:
https://afepower.com/afe-power-54-82...-intake-system

It’s got great reviews, has the Magnum Shield pre-filter option for all the dust we’ll encounter at KOH, and their customer service is second to none.

Doug Thorley Headers:
These guys are awesome. For those who own 4th Gen 4Runners, you already know them. Their headers are really the only proven, reliable option for the 4.7L V8 and therefore the only thing we’d run on this race build:
2005-2009 Toyota 4Runner / Lexus GX470 4.7L Short Tube Headers

URD – Underdog Racing Development:
Gadget, who runs URD, is a legend in the Toyota enthusiast world. I’ve known of Gadget since I was building up my ’98 tacoma in the early 2000’s. URD products are second to none. I reached out to Gadget and asked him for recommendations for this build. Here’s what he suggested:

- URD “Offroad” Y Pipe for 2005-2009 4Runner V8:
https://www.urdusa.com/urd-off-road-...09-4runner-v8/

- URD MAF Sensor Calibrator – Universal:
https://www.urdusa.com/urd-maf-sensor-calibrator/

- URD 2005-2009 4Runner Fuel Pump and Filter Upgrade Kit:
https://www.urdusa.com/urd-2005-2009...r-upgrade-kit/

- URD 170 Degree Performance Thermostat for 4.7L V8:
https://www.urdusa.com/170-degree-pe...uz-fe-4-7l-v8/

And in order to make sure our MAF Calibrator is used most effectively, we also purchased a UEGO Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge from AEM:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1

Magnaflow Exhaust:
I’m still waiting to see if our Magnaflow sponsorship will be approved which included high-flow cats and a race series muffler. In the interim, we have a Magnaflow Cat-Back Exhaust that should close out our performance mods nicely:
https://www.magnaflow.com/products?partNumber=15781

Charles4x4 06-18-2018 11:54 PM

And that brings us up to speed to today. I have some amazing sponsors yet to be revealed. And together, we’ve got some amazing plans in store for this build. For now, I’m planning to wait and reveal our sponsors, and their amazing products being utilized on this build, as we progress through the phases between now and the end of the year.

Our plan is to have an amazingly well built, one of a kind, revolutionary 4th Gen IFS Based 4Runner ready for testing in Johnson Valley by Thanksgiving, or Christmas at the latest. That should give us 1-2 months for acclimation to the desert and Hammers trails, on location testing, custom suspension tuning, and weak-link identifying – we will not be showing up 1-2 weeks before the race having just completed the vehicle.

More to come soon. Until then, check out the pics we’re posting to our social media pages (links in the 1st post). We welcome your thoughts, ideas, and support!

the_white_shadow 06-19-2018 05:45 AM

Good luck on the build. Are you going long travel up front i.e. extended upper/lower control arms, etc?

Im assuming even though Toyota offered the TRD supercharger, it isnt allowed because technically it never came on a factory production vehicle and was only a toyota provided accessory?

the_white_shadow 06-19-2018 05:45 AM

oh and post pics here. We dont all venture out to facebook or IG.

hodgiemoto 06-19-2018 08:55 AM

^what he said^ post pics here if you can or have time.

Best of luck on this project, looking forward to seeing how it all turns out.

Provience 06-19-2018 12:39 PM

yet to be revealed? if they are amazing sponsors put them on blast :grinpimp:

hopefully it will be a solid jeep killer :D

Charles4x4 06-19-2018 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_white_shadow (Post 43927078)
Good luck on the build. Are you going long travel up front i.e. extended upper/lower control arms, etc?

Im assuming even though Toyota offered the TRD supercharger, it isnt allowed because technically it never came on a factory production vehicle and was only a toyota provided accessory?

Long travel IFS up front and 4-link in the rear! I have three amazing sponsors for these areas, so more to come on these areas soon. There are a number of surprises in store for the front and rear suspension and connected components.

Correct, if it wasn't a factory option (which a supercharger is not), we can't use it in 4600 Stock Class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_white_shadow (Post 43927080)
oh and post pics here. We dont all venture out to facebook or IG.

Please follow us on FB and IG. It is the currency of racing sponsorship these days and we need to get our followers up. I still have a few final sponsors I'm speaking with that I need to land. Your following will help!

And yes, I plan on posting pictures here. Do I have to by a blue star to post direct from Upload? If so, I will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgiemoto (Post 43927372)
^what he said^ post pics here if you can or have time.

Best of luck on this project, looking forward to seeing how it all turns out.

Thanks. See above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 43927784)
yet to be revealed? if they are amazing sponsors put them on blast :grinpimp:

hopefully it will be a solid jeep killer :D

I love it - a jeep killer in the making!

Hint: You can get a sneak peak if you go to IG and FB and check out the comments and hashtags :). Also, post comments there as well.

Although we just launched, my sponsors will be watching our social media results closely so every bit counts!

Charles4x4 06-19-2018 02:49 PM

More pics of Phase I will be posted later today or tomorrow to FB and IG. Our first set of sponsor products have officially been installed and more packages just arrived today!

Black Sheep 06-19-2018 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43928054)
Please follow us on FB and IG.

Absolutely not.

I do look forward to you posting pics here though.

Charles4x4 06-19-2018 05:02 PM

aFe Power Intake and Magnaflow exhaust installed.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b5&oe=5BA2DC31

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...73&oe=5BC05F06

Doug Thorley headers received and waiting to be installed!
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...c9&oe=5BB1CC22

These headers are a work of art!
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...88&oe=5BA83DB8

More pics on FB and IG

zachwrench 06-19-2018 06:16 PM

subscribed and following

the_white_shadow 06-19-2018 07:36 PM

You don’t need a star to post. Use imgur or google photos or even photobucket to host pics to post them up.

Boomtacoma01 06-20-2018 07:49 AM

Just add an attachment.. A star is cheap BTW

smracing 06-20-2018 10:23 AM

This reads like an ad, not tech. Get some pictures and real fab work up ASAP.

Tbonektm 06-20-2018 12:07 PM

Looking forward to seeing this come together.

Charles4x4 06-20-2018 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachwrench (Post 43928392)
subscribed and following

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_white_shadow (Post 43928518)
You don’t need a star to post. Use imgur or google photos or even photobucket to host pics to post them up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomtacoma01 (Post 43929260)
Just add an attachment.. A star is cheap BTW

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbonektm (Post 43929914)
Looking forward to seeing this come together.

Thanks everyone. I figured out how to link pics from FB to here and posted some pics above.

Also, please be patient - we're just in our infancy on this build and have 7+ months to go before KOH. None of the true fab work will ramp up heavily until a couple months from now.

More parts arrived today for Phase I. Stay tuned...

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f6&oe=5BAF8F3D

jones518 06-21-2018 12:11 AM

Sub'd and I'll say this to motivate you....KOH '19 will be here before you know it. Building and testing a vehicle in 6 months is a TIGHT timeline. I'll help you out on the lakebed though, so get to work!

Charles4x4 06-21-2018 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jones518 (Post 43931076)
Sub'd and I'll say this to motivate you....KOH '19 will be here before you know it. Building and testing a vehicle in 6 months is a TIGHT timeline. I'll help you out on the lakebed though, so get to work!

Awesome! Thank you!

OllieNZ 06-21-2018 07:52 AM

Another one following with interest

Bones 06-21-2018 08:20 AM

You are going to race this? Bolt on exhaust and LED lights and an intake. Whoa!

I've got the popcorn

The Brawler 06-21-2018 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43930854)
None of the true fab work will ramp up heavily until a couple months from now.

Seriously??? :confused: But you plan on "Being done by Thanksgiving"? And testing for 1 to 2 months before KOH? And you have a day job? And you have a family? And no crew?

Prove me wrong, but in order to build a contending KOH race car on your own in that amount of time, with all the hurdles you have would be amazing...:eek: I don't see it happening, but please prove me wrong. BTW, you've got 23 weeks until Turkey Day... :stirthepot: GO!

Black Sheep 06-21-2018 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43928280)

KOH or not, I dont see that exhaust faring well. Start tackling stuff that matters, like stripping that heavy pig to nothing.

Bones 06-21-2018 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Sheep (Post 43931374)
KOH or not, I dont see that exhaust faring well. Start tackling stuff that matters, like stripping that heavy pig to nothing.

Yeah this thread is proving to be a big steaming pile of poo

Charles4x4 06-21-2018 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OllieNZ (Post 43931294)
Another one following with interest

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 43931340)
You are going to race this? Bolt on exhaust and LED lights and an intake. Whoa!

I've got the popcorn

If you read the posts above (sorry, I know they are long), you know we're going to race this. I know Phase I seems boring, but there's 7-months of work yet to be done. We literally just launched this week. Exhaust will be modified. LEDs will come out (were installed by PO) when armor goes on.

Hang in there with us. I promise we'll be on the starting line in Feb, will have parts and fabrication never done to a 4th gen before, and this 4Runner will be 100% transformed!

We're at the 1% complete mark right now. I've got a huge build plan and my team in CA and I have a detailed build plan and timeline that we're following.

Charles4x4 06-21-2018 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Sheep (Post 43931374)
KOH or not, I dont see that exhaust faring well. Start tackling stuff that matters, like stripping that heavy pig to nothing.

Yeah, the rear portion of the cat-back will be cut off. I'm still working on Magnaflow for a race muffler - but haven't landed it via sponsorship just yet so the cat-back will have to do for now. Headers, URD y-pipe, etc will be installed in a couple days. And we'll be skid-plating the crap out of the underside - with 35's, we'll be dragging a lot on the rock trails.

Interior will be stripped, except the dash and necessary electrical stuff. Race seats, fuel cell, cage, harnesses and other safety stuff, race air, etc installed.

Doors will be pulled with gutted half-doors plugged in. Windshield and all glass will be pulled. We'll be dropping a lot of weight, but some upgrades will add a bit back (ex. rear axle and front IFS stuff will be beefy).

With all of that said, our team does have one rule - pursue elegant simplicity. In other words, if the OEM Toyota stuff is strong and reliable, we aren't going to fix what isn't broken. For example, I've ready all too many threads of people stripping electrical wires to save 1lb of weight only to go out at KOH due to an electrical issue.

We'll be doing everything that needs to be done (and there is a lot!) and will keep the rest simple.

edabd 06-22-2018 05:28 PM

Subscribed. This should be a cool build. be great to see another toyota in the stock class.

Charles4x4 06-22-2018 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edabd (Post 43933792)
Subscribed. This should be a cool build. be great to see another toyota in the stock class.

Thanks. Toyota’s in KOH we’re heading toward extinction - hopefully we’ll turn it around in 2019!

zidaro 06-23-2018 07:52 AM

cant wait to see her all stripped down!!

What are the plans for an IFS front carrier? sticking with an OEM Toyota version or going to do it right?

Charles4x4 06-23-2018 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zidaro (Post 43934558)
cant wait to see her all stripped down!!

What are the plans for an IFS front carrier? sticking with an OEM Toyota version or going to do it right?

As mentioned on T4R, we tried to "do it right" with a Currie F9 or a D60 center, but there was no way it was fitting. So right now our plan is 4.56 gears (keep them big and strong) in the stock 8" clamshell (Atlas II 4.3 T-Case), retain ATRAC, stout shafts, and a selectable ARB up front for worst case scenario.

Fortunately our core build team has a ton of experience with the stock Toyota 8" and thinks this setup will be strong enough for 35s running 2wd in the desert and 4wd with ATRAC and the rear ARB locker in the hammers. I just have to be careful when I turn the front locker on vs. winching.

Most we have heard of have been breaking shafts on 40s or 42s vs. the actual gears. While we'll have shafts covered, we know the front diff will be the weak link, so we'll have to be smart.

cryptic toy 06-23-2018 03:05 PM

They look similar, but I was wondering about the current gen tundra diff ? For the front ? If that had the 6 cyl less torque, but it has the 8 and more weight and torque. This would be my concern. Not sure what the rules are but modified cross member / complete new could work. Maybe lift the motor an inch ?

eat.sleep.wheel 06-24-2018 01:34 AM

So how bout that gutting?

or are you going to run KOH with glass and a/c just to show the haters whats up

:grinpimp:

zidaro 06-24-2018 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eat.sleep.wheel (Post 43935620)
So how bout that gutting?

or are you going to run KOH with glass and a/c just to show the haters whats up

:grinpimp:

:smokin::smokin: and don't forget the most important of all, for Feb KOH, seat heaters!!!

Bones 06-25-2018 06:18 AM

So you area installing things knowing you will need to remove/cut/modify them? Who would sponsor you and why? Way too much fluff and nothing getting accomplished. 1% done but you have 7 months left. Yeah you have a shot at contending :rolleyes:

Charles4x4 06-26-2018 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eat.sleep.wheel (Post 43935620)
So how bout that gutting?

or are you going to run KOH with glass and a/c just to show the haters whats up

:grinpimp:

Quote:

Originally Posted by zidaro (Post 43935710)
:smokin::smokin: and don't forget the most important of all, for Feb KOH, seat heaters!!!

I have to get my 1st gen 4Runner completed as my DD before I can gut the 4th gen. That's why the engine mods are getting crossed off the list first.

Phase II will include suspension seats, half doors, removal of the glass, gutting the interior (minus the dash), etc. Hope to be starting on it in the next week or two. Still have some final engine work left to do this week.

Still not certain what to do with the rear tailgate. I'd love to remove it completely and put some tubing back there with dual latches, but noticed most 4600s have gone back to an actual tailgate in the past few years - not sure if that is per the rules or for aesthetics.

No seat heaters :)

Provience 06-26-2018 09:21 AM

i'd imagine an actual tailgate keeps the dust in the cab way down, with the glass out and most of the internal support removed the door itself is probably pretty light.

Charles4x4 06-26-2018 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 43938954)
i'd imagine an actual tailgate keeps the dust in the cab way down, with the glass out and most of the internal support removed the door itself is probably pretty light.

True. Probably why all the Grand Cherokees have everything still there but the glass.

byron4 06-26-2018 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 43931340)
You are going to race this? Bolt on exhaust and LED lights and an intake. Whoa!

I've got the popcorn

same thought....is it a yotatech series?

whitneyj 06-26-2018 03:50 PM

Definitely subscribed. Now chop chop on the DD to get this going :D

YotaAtieToo 06-26-2018 08:31 PM

You shouldn't be using such a low tcase ratio, even in the rocks, you are racing, not slow technical crawling. You would be better off with a ~2:1 so you can leave it low all the time.

Provience 06-26-2018 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 43940052)
You shouldn't be using such a low tcase ratio, even in the rocks, you are racing, not slow technical crawling. You would be better off with a ~2:1 so you can leave it low all the time.

#DualsorDeath!


or get a 3 speed with a 1.5 and a 3:1 option...there is plenty of time to take it easy (and winch early) in the rock sections #Bypass4Lyfe

:rasta:

Beat95YJ 06-27-2018 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Sheep (Post 43928068)
Absolutely not.

I do look forward to you posting pics here though.

This

Aisin 06-27-2018 05:58 AM

Incorrect forum. This is for 79-95 pickups and 4runners.

Charles4x4 06-27-2018 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 43940052)
You shouldn't be using such a low tcase ratio, even in the rocks, you are racing, not slow technical crawling. You would be better off with a ~2:1 so you can leave it low all the time.

I actually had Brian at 4WU say the same. But with 4.56 gears and the big V8 swapping between Hi and Low, my team in CA thinks the 4.3 Atlas will work fine.

I'm no T-Case expert though, but I looked at the math using an online RPM to T-Case to Diff calculator and 2:1 didn't look like a good fit for both high-speed desert + rock crawling (or maybe rock bouncing is a better term). I can't remember the exact math though - maybe RPMs were too high in the desert and speed was too high in the rocks if I recall.

Bones 06-27-2018 08:27 AM

You clearly don't know what you are doing with this pipe dream of yours.

Beat95YJ 06-27-2018 08:39 AM

The atlas comes in at 4.3 or a 5.0. There is no 4.7 ratio. :confused:

Beat95YJ 06-27-2018 08:45 AM

Also with a 35, you want to be in the 5.13-5.38 gear ratio. Unless you want to go slow.

Charles4x4 06-27-2018 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43940818)
The atlas comes in at 4.3 or a 5.0. There is no 4.7 ratio. :confused:

Thanks - I meant 4.3 Was getting it mixed up with 4.7L engine.

Charles4x4 06-27-2018 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43940832)
Also with a 35, you want to be in the 5.13-5.38 gear ratio. Unless you want to go slow.

We want to go fast but also keep the gears as big/strong as possible - which is why we chose 4.56. Not sure I follow how 4.56 is slower than 5.13-5.38?

Beat95YJ 06-27-2018 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43940858)
Thanks - I meant 4.3 Was getting it mixed up with 4.7L engine.

IMO that is going to be too low with an auto.

Charles4x4 06-27-2018 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43940872)
IMO that is going to be too low with an auto.

Too low for the rocks? Note we're planning to use 2wd High for the desert sections.

And we'll be keeping our RPMs and momentum up in the rocks.

It's never been done before, so I'm open to suggestions. But the 4.3 looked good in the calculator - which I certainly recognize isn't reality...

Beat95YJ 06-27-2018 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43940866)
We want to go fast but also keep the gears as big/strong as possible - which is why we chose 4.56. Not sure I follow how 4.56 is slower than 5.13-5.38?

Acceleration is more important in desert racing then top speed. You might hit 70 miles an hour a couple times on the course, but basically your drag racing from 0 to 50 to 0 to 50 to 0 to 50 and so on. You want deep low gears so you can get up to speed as quickly as possible. You don’t need freeway gears. And with an overdrive or you can get away with a very deep gear. Even the 4 L jeep guys run gears in the 5.xx range and they don’t like to rev.

Also don’t bolt all this crap to your truck that you’re going to have to take off when you start the fabrication. The headers and y pipe are fine because you need to know for clearance, but when you cage it you’re not gonna be able to run the AFE airbox. That kind of stuff is just a waste of time and money. Strip it, cage it, then start adding stuff. If you need a DD for now leave it alone.

Beat95YJ 06-27-2018 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43940894)
Too low for the rocks? Note we're planning to use 2wd High for the desert sections.

And we'll be keeping our RPMs and momentum up in the rocks.

It's never been done before, so I'm open to suggestions. But the 4.3 looked good in the calculator - which I certainly recognize isn't reality...

Yep. Too low for rocks. Will force you to crawl instead of using momentum. Go for a 3.0 or maybe a 3.8.

Charles4x4 06-27-2018 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43940896)
Acceleration is more important in desert racing then top speed. You might hit 70 miles an hour a couple times on the course, but basically your drag racing from 0 to 50 to 0 to 50 to 0 to 50 and so on. You want deep low gears so you can get up to speed as quickly as possible. You don’t need freeway gears. And with an overdrive or you can get away with a very deep gear. Even the 4 L jeep guys run gears in the 5.xx range and they don’t like to rev.

Also don’t bolt all this crap to your truck that you’re going to have to take off when you start the fabrication. The headers and y pipe are fine because you need to know for clearance, but when you cage it you’re not gonna be able to run the AFE airbox. That kind of stuff is just a waste of time and money. Strip it, cage it, then start adding stuff. If you need a DD for now leave it alone.

Thanks for the comments. We were originally planning on 5.29s exactly for the reasons mentioned above, but were afraid of the front gears being so much weaker than 4.56s. After considering the v8 power, front diff setup, tranny with OD, rocks vs. desert conditions, etc - 4.56 was recommended by the team at Marlin Crawler and RockSolidToys as happy balance between all, but we're open to any suggestions and not quite locked in (will be soon though).

Yes, the Headers and Y-Pipe will stay. The Magnaflow muffler will stay, but will be cut off behind the muffler (it was free - I have no issue with cutting it).

Thanks for your comment on the DD. It's honestly a balancing act that can be frustrating at times. I really want to begin stripping the v8, but DD just isn't ready yet.

I was in the garage for 8-hrs yesterday after work and am 75% there: installed new suspension and brakes, interior completely stripped and ready for restoration, 30 boxes of parts in the garage, rear diff rebuilt, etc. But it still has to get painted and final body work done, so I still have a few more weeks where I have to be patient.

Until then, I'm knocking out as many of the things I CAN to the 4th gen like engine, seats, interior removal, etc and still drive it daily. And I need to find some junkyard doors to begin gutting/cutting the half-doors.

After that, it'll be taken to CA for the real fab work to begin. Parts are already accumulating in CA at Marlin Crawler and RockSolidToys. Like the rear RJ60 - which right now is tentatively ordered at 4.56 gears.

If anyone feels strongly against 4.56 for a balance of speed and strength with the 4.3 Atlas II, now is the time to speak up.

Beat95YJ 06-27-2018 09:57 AM

Last advice for today. Paint it last. You don’t have to get crazy masking parts and your fab shop won’t destroy the fresh paint.

Charles4x4 06-27-2018 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43941062)
Last advice for today. Paint it last. You don’t have to get crazy masking parts and your fab shop won’t destroy the fresh paint.

Thanks. I assume you're talking about the DD 1st gen? If so, agreed. Note the 4th Gen will be wrapped for KOH.

Beat95YJ 06-27-2018 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43941146)
Thanks. I assume you're talking about the DD 1st gen? If so, agreed. Note the 4th Gen will be wrapped for KOH.

I thought you were saying you were painting the race car. I got a little confused because you have two 4runners in the same thread.

Charles4x4 06-28-2018 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43941180)
I thought you were saying you were painting the race car. I got a little confused because you have two 4runners in the same thread.

Yeah, I just deleted the pics of the 1st gen.

Atlas II doesn't come in a 3.0 or 3.8 does it? I do agree - given IFS, we must be racing not crawling!

Beat95YJ 06-28-2018 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43943206)
Yeah, I just deleted the pics of the 1st gen.

Atlas II doesn't come in a 3.0 or 3.8 does it? I do agree - given IFS, we must be racing not crawling!

It comes in both 3.8 and 3.0

Charles4x4 06-28-2018 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43943316)
It comes in both 3.8 and 3.0

Good. Straight from AA website:
1.5:1 : This is a newer ratio that looks like it will be more popular for the 4 speed and used in quite a few competition rigs as a 2 speed.

2.0:1 : This unit is more of a stock ratio found in most early full size trucks and used in quite a few competition rigs

3.0:1 : This unit is popular in numerous applications. Used in quite a few competition rigs

3.8:1 : The Atlas 3.8 is a good choice for the avid 4-wheeler since this low gear ratio is ideal for moderate to some extreme rock crawling.

4.3:1 : This unit is popular in numerous applications.

5.0:1 : This unit is popular in numerous applications.


I'll dive in more with the team. Glad you brought this up - I should have known that there are a bunch of gearing options.

I'm leaning more toward the 3.0 or 3.8 at this point with 4.56s in the diffs.

Charles4x4 06-28-2018 11:15 AM

I'm playing with this RPM Calculator:
4x4 related Calculators, Crawl Ratio, Gears Tires Sizes, etc..

Using these specs for the A750F:
A750Fspecifications

We're good for high speed as is. For the rocks, what MPH should be assumed? I want to see RPMs for 3.0, 3.8, and 4.3 options for race speed in the rocks.

Thoughts?

arickvan 06-28-2018 01:00 PM

I saw the link to your rpm calculator and I've always used the grimm jeeper one

Gear Ratio Calculator

since you asked what mph you should want for the rocks this lets you compare mph ratio and rpm all at once since all should apply

it lets you enter tons of different combinations and then gives you crawl ratio, rpm, and mph for every gear in high, low, and if doubled ( high-low , low-high and low-low)

Wilson 06-28-2018 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43943594)
I'm playing with this RPM Calculator:
4x4 related Calculators, Crawl Ratio, Gears Tires Sizes, etc..

Using these specs for the A750F:
A750Fspecifications

We're good for high speed as is. For the rocks, what MPH should be assumed? I want to see RPMs for 3.0, 3.8, and 4.3 options for race speed in the rocks.

Thoughts?

You're chasing the wrong ghost, quickest accleration is what you want. 5.29's will not reduce your top speed beyond any number that you may actually reach, nor are they significantly weaker than 4.56..... Or run a 3.xx in the diff and get a 2.0 4spd case. You'll only need to shift the planetary box during the race and have damn quick 0-60 times. You will average faster times on the "desert" in 4wd.

Charles4x4 06-28-2018 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson (Post 43943892)
You're chasing the wrong ghost, quickest accleration is what you want. 5.29's will not reduce your top speed beyond any number that you may actually reach, nor are they significantly weaker than 4.56..... Or run a 3.xx in the diff and get a 2.0 4spd case. You'll only need to shift the planetary box during the race and have damn quick 0-60 times. You will average faster times on the "desert" in 4wd.

Thanks. I see your points. We're trying to make sure we save the front diff and front driveshaft by running 2WD in the desert, but it should theoretically be fine given it'll be open/limited slip via ATRAC (which likely wont' be on due to speed) and 4WD is feasible. Per Jesse at HighAngle, the front driveshaft will have a horizontal angle we have to be wary of.

I'm no gear expert, but multiple people have recommended 4.56 due to strength advantages over 5.29?

On the wide-open, flat desert sections (2-3 per lap maybe?), I'm guessing we can hit 70+ MPH. But it's probably less than 5% of the course.

Right now, it's really fast 0-60 with stock 3.73s and 32s. On 35's, the equivalent ratio would be 4.0, so 4.56 should be significantly quicker on 0-60 than it is now, while also retaining more strength than 5.29 - we thought it would be the best of both - speed and strength. Then a 3.0, 3.8, or 4.3 in the Atlas II.

Again, open to all opinions. And so you all know I'm not wasting your ideas, I've already passed a few of them from these posts to AA and RockSolidToys earlier today. Keep 'em coming!

Charles4x4 06-28-2018 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arickvan (Post 43943846)
I saw the link to your rpm calculator and I've always used the grimm jeeper one

Gear Ratio Calculator

since you asked what mph you should want for the rocks this lets you compare mph ratio and rpm all at once since all should apply

it lets you enter tons of different combinations and then gives you crawl ratio, rpm, and mph for every gear in high, low, and if doubled ( high-low , low-high and low-low)

That calculator is sweet - especially the ability to compare 4.3 vs. 3.8 vs. 3.0 or 4.56 vs. 5.29.

With that said, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference in the combinations. In High, it will be able to go faster than I'll actually go with any configuration. In Low, it'll go slow with decent RPMs regardless.

Therefore, maybe a middle-of-the-road solution is best. Diffs at 4.56 with a 3.8 T-Case? Fast, strong, and can crawl if we have to. If too slow in the rocks in Low 1st, we'll just do some of the rock trails in Low 2nd gear!

For those math gurus out there, what do you see when you look at the various combinations that I might have missed?

:grinpimp:

Beat95YJ 06-28-2018 04:06 PM

Wtf is ATRAC? Sounds like bullshit traction control. Tear that shit out (abs too) and put a Detroit or spool in the rear end. Nothing should be “open” on a race car.

Also you keep asking “what does everybody think” we keep saying scrap the 4.56’s and get deeper gears. You say “OK but I’m keeping the 4.56’s, What does everybody think?”

SCRAP THE 4.56’s!

Why don’t you race to win instead of racing to race?

Charles4x4 06-28-2018 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43944266)
Wtf is ATRAC? Sounds like bullshit traction control. Tear that shit out (abs too) and put a Detroit or spool in the rear end. Nothing should be “open” on a race car.

Also you keep asking “what does everybody think” we keep saying scrap the 4.56’s and get deeper gears. You say “OK but I’m keeping the 4.56’s, What does everybody think?”

SCRAP THE 4.56’s!

Why don’t you race to win instead of racing to race?

ATRAC uses brake control to essentially keep a "limited slip" type setup in the front. With ATRAC, the front diff is open, which allows us to put in an ARB locker in the front so we have the best of both. If the ABS gets in the way, we'll scrap ATRAC and just have ARB in the front.

We'd plan on using the ATRAC limited slip in the front for moderate speed areas (it disables at high speed) and then engage the front ARB for the hardest sections.

Some say ATRAC is crap - others think it could make all the difference at KOH.

From a Toyota forum:
"ATRAC's sole purpose is to provide near equal wheel speeds without over stressing the drive line or brakes."
"The big difference between ATRAC and a locker is that you will lose a little momentum with ATRAC because the wheel needs to slip first before it activates. This all happens very quickly but sometimes momentum is the key...Lockers provide equal torque all the time, when engaged."

From another forum:
"I found ATRAC very effective with moderate and extreme wheeling. My use goes something like this: ATRAC on all the time, on hard obstacles, rear locker used 20%, front locker on 5% of the time."

As mentioned, we'll have both. And of course, the rear will have an ARB. There will be no open diffs!

We're racing to win, but will be stoked to finish, and happy with just surviving Thursday's EMC.

arickvan 06-28-2018 04:55 PM

i had an ARB in the rear of my trail rig... I swapped it for a detroit haha

you're going to have it on the whole time anyway might as well eliminate some potential breaking points (compressor, air lines, janky copper compression fitting into axle housing) and go with a full time locker in the rear

DISCLAIMER (the only thing i race to is the ice chest for beer. just my 2 cents)

cryptic toy 06-28-2018 07:34 PM

From my experience with the atrac it is good for a weekend warior. Has benefits for sand ,snow, and mud. I have never been to the hammers, hopefully someday! But my 2 cents is you are racing and need to be in control of the skinny pedal. Putting your foot to the floor and waiting for the grunting/ buzzing and the computer trying to figure out what tire has traction is not going to help at all . If you have some extra rims that will clear the brakes find some junk low pro tire of a car and mount up measure the height and do the calculations to see what gears you would like. I'm thinking 24" tall tire would get you the gear for high range and normal low.

Beat95YJ 06-28-2018 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arickvan (Post 43944340)
i had an ARB in the rear of my trail rig... I swapped it for a detroit haha

you're going to have it on the whole time anyway might as well eliminate some potential breaking points (compressor, air lines, janky copper compression fitting into axle housing) and go with a full time locker in the rear

DISCLAIMER (the only thing i race to is the ice chest for beer. just my 2 cents)

I sort of agree. I only run a ARB’s in my Jeeps, and Detroit or spools in desert trucks.

yotota 06-28-2018 08:42 PM

The debate you hear about 5.29s being weak applies to cheap gears. You're planning to actually race... So don't get cheap gears. Problem solved. Get the best damn 5.29s you can find, spool the rear end, and ARB the front. ATRAC will be worthless if you're actually hammering through something (I have ATRAC on my daily driver/snow/hiking truck, it works for very mellow stuff but it's obtrusive as hell). ABS will also be worthless, bordering on dangerous at desert speeds. Gut all that crap and run new lines straight to the calipers.

You really should gut anything and everything that won't make the rig faster at KOH, or anything that will be less than 100% reliable so you can actually finish KOH. ATRAC and ABS should go first thing.

Black Sheep 06-28-2018 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yotota (Post 43944704)
The debate you hear about 5.29s being weak applies to cheap gears. You're planning to actually race... So don't get cheap gears. Problem solved. Get the best damn 5.29s you can find, spool the rear end, and ARB the front. ATRAC will be worthless if you're actually hammering through something (I have ATRAC on my daily driver/snow/hiking truck, it works for very mellow stuff but it's obtrusive as hell). ABS will also be worthless, bordering on dangerous at desert speeds. Gut all that crap and run new lines straight to the calipers.

You really should gut anything and everything that won't make the rig faster at KOH, or anything that will be less than 100% reliable so you can actually finish KOH. ATRAC and ABS should go first thing.

Good advice.

Wilson 06-28-2018 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yotota (Post 43944704)
The debate you hear about 5.29s being weak applies to cheap gears. You're planning to actually race... So don't get cheap gears. Problem solved. Get the best damn 5.29s you can find, spool the rear end, and ARB the front. ATRAC will be worthless if you're actually hammering through something (I have ATRAC on my daily driver/snow/hiking truck, it works for very mellow stuff but it's obtrusive as hell). ABS will also be worthless, bordering on dangerous at desert speeds. Gut all that crap and run new lines straight to the calipers.

You really should gut anything and everything that won't make the rig faster at KOH, or anything that will be less than 100% reliable so you can actually finish KOH. ATRAC and ABS should go first thing.

I also agree. I believe in the platform, but step one (for me) would be to remove everything below the frame rails and inside of the cabin.

Atrac works well enough in my 100 series cruiser to get to some good camp sites. I would never run it in a race car.

arickvan 06-29-2018 09:10 AM

okay i ran the numbers!!! from what i can find you have a A750E 5 speed auto correct?

if so then it will be 4.56 diff with 4.3 case vs 5.29 diff with 3.8 case (assuming we want a fairly low 1st gear)

both have very similar crawl ratios ~70-1 1st gear ~43-1 2nd gear and ~28-1 3rd gear

the difference between them is in high range the 4.56 will be higher (16-1 1st gear 10-1 2nd gear and 6.5-1 3rd gear)

5.29's will be (18.5-1 11.5-1 and 7.5-1)

from this i looked at tcase in high what rpm and mph you come out with and we see 3rd gear being probly being the highest gear your going to use (assuming 50-70mph will be your max open desert speed)

okay finally the mph range for 3rd gear from 3000 rpm to 6000 rpm
5.29 diff with 3.8 case = 39-79mph
4.56 diff with 4.3 case = 46-91mph

so now the question is where are your shift points and where is your power and how can you keep the transmission and everyone on pirate happy all at once

(side note this is all a waste if you guys tell me 70-1 1st gear is too slow :homer: )

eat.sleep.wheel 06-29-2018 12:03 PM

70:1 1st gear is too low and completely unnecessary for what this rig will do.

50:1 would be plenty low

Charles4x4 06-29-2018 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yotota (Post 43944704)
The debate you hear about 5.29s being weak applies to cheap gears. You're planning to actually race... So don't get cheap gears. Problem solved. Get the best damn 5.29s you can find, spool the rear end, and ARB the front. ATRAC will be worthless if you're actually hammering through something (I have ATRAC on my daily driver/snow/hiking truck, it works for very mellow stuff but it's obtrusive as hell). ABS will also be worthless, bordering on dangerous at desert speeds. Gut all that crap and run new lines straight to the calipers.

You really should gut anything and everything that won't make the rig faster at KOH, or anything that will be less than 100% reliable so you can actually finish KOH. ATRAC and ABS should go first thing.

Agreed on the gears. Note we won't be engaging the ARB at any moderate or high speeds of course. If ATRAC is a hindrance (I've heard both sides of the debate), we'll pull it off ASAP in testing in Dec.

A few experts (literally fab shop owners with a ton of KOH experience) think it could really help. Others think not. We're going to leave ATRAC on for now and will pull it during testing if it's a hindrance.

ARBs Front and Rear are locked in.

Wilson 06-29-2018 12:36 PM

My experience with Atrac on my 100 series and it's variant in my tundra is that it works surprisingly well on mild trails and loose conditions. At speed, it dumbs down the power; favoring safety over speed (forget sliding a turn).

Charles4x4 06-29-2018 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arickvan (Post 43945354)
okay i ran the numbers!!! from what i can find you have a A750E 5 speed auto correct?

if so then it will be 4.56 diff with 4.3 case vs 5.29 diff with 3.8 case (assuming we want a fairly low 1st gear)

both have very similar crawl ratios ~70-1 1st gear ~43-1 2nd gear and ~28-1 3rd gear

the difference between them is in high range the 4.56 will be higher (16-1 1st gear 10-1 2nd gear and 6.5-1 3rd gear)

5.29's will be (18.5-1 11.5-1 and 7.5-1)

from this i looked at tcase in high what rpm and mph you come out with and we see 3rd gear being probly being the highest gear your going to use (assuming 50-70mph will be your max open desert speed)

okay finally the mph range for 3rd gear from 3000 rpm to 6000 rpm
5.29 diff with 3.8 case = 39-79mph
4.56 diff with 4.3 case = 46-91mph

so now the question is where are your shift points and where is your power and how can you keep the transmission and everyone on pirate happy all at once

(side note this is all a waste if you guys tell me 70-1 1st gear is too slow :homer: )

It's the A750F (not sure if there is a difference vs A750E).

Crawl Ratio / 3rd Gear 2500 to 5000 RPM / RPMs at 70 MPH in 3rd
4.56 with 3.0 = 48:1 / 40-82 MPH / 4,300 RPM
4.56 with 3.8 = 61:1 / 40-82 MPH / 4,300 RPM
4.56 with 4.3 = 69:1 / 40-82 MPH / 4,300 RPM

5.29 with 3.0 = 56:1 / 35-70 MPH / 5,000 RPM
5.29 with 3.8 = 71:1 / 35-70 MPH / 5,000 RPM
5.29 with 4.3 = 80:1 / 35-70 MPH / 5,000 RPM

I think we can hit 80 in the flats max. If we are targeting a 50:1 or 60:1 crawl Ratio in Low 1st, and if 4.56 is any stronger than 5.29, then 4.56 with a 3.8 case feels about right to me.

Nitro, Yukon, Other gears - what does everyone suggest? I'm ping them about potential sponsorship for the front diff.

Charles4x4 06-29-2018 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson (Post 43945858)
My experience with Atrac on my 100 series and it's variant in my tundra is that it works surprisingly well on mild trails and loose conditions. At speed, it dumbs down the power; favoring safety over speed (forget sliding a turn).

Thanks. Doesn't it turn off automatically at a certain speed? I heard it cuts off.

Note we'll definitely be disabling VSC - there is a switch mod or something we'll install.

Charles4x4 06-29-2018 01:22 PM

Suggestions needed: What fuel cell should we be looking at? Recall it'll be mounted in the cargo area just behind where the rear seat is today.

After 5-mins of Google Searching, I found:
JAZ Pro Sport II 22 Gal Fuel Cell (JAZ28012206)

https://www.kartek.com/parts/jaz-pro...4w-10-12h.html

Is 22 Gal about right? I assume I'll be getting 8-12 MPG in race conditions? Should I go larger?

What about internal baffles? I've heard nightmares of foam disintegrating and being sucked through the filters, pumps, and lines. Is there an alternative to foam?

KOH Rules state:
d) Safety fuel cells shall consist of a bladder enclosed in a smooth-skinned container. The container shall be constructed of 20 gauge steel, 0.060” aluminum. Magnesium is strictly prohibited. Container must be securely attached to vehicle with bolts or steel straps. All fittings must be built into the container skin and bonded to the container skin as an integral part of the tank or mechanically sealed by a ring and counter-ring system by either flat joint or an O-ring. Internal baffling is mandatory in all fuel cells. Foam is an acceptable form of internal baffling.
Bladder construction shall be of nylon or Dacron woven fabric impregnated and coated with a fuel resistant elastomer. Rotary molded polymer cells are acceptable when encapsulated in a container constructed of 20 ga. Steel or 0.060” aluminum.

Bones 06-29-2018 01:45 PM

Dear god someone move this to the newb section. This is getting utterly ridiculous

Wilson 06-29-2018 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43945952)
Thanks. Doesn't it turn off automatically at a certain speed? I heard it cuts off.

Note we'll definitely be disabling VSC - there is a switch mod or something we'll install.

The 100 series needs to be in low range, the tundra does have a disabling switch. Does your runner have a center diff in the tcase? I believe true awd could be advantageous

Wilson 07-01-2018 12:22 PM

Did your team consider the gm 9.25 for the front?

Charles4x4 07-03-2018 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson (Post 43946006)
The 100 series needs to be in low range, the tundra does have a disabling switch. Does your runner have a center diff in the tcase? I believe true awd could be advantageous

Yes, it has a CDL, but will be pulled when the Atlas II goes in.

Charles4x4 07-03-2018 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson (Post 43948334)
Did your team consider the gm 9.25 for the front?

Yes, but if the F9 won't fit, I doubt the GM 9.25 would fit? As mentioned above, most running 40s on Toyota 8" aren't breaking the gears, they're breaking the CVs. And we'll be running new prototype RCVs, so we should be covered there.

If we break the 8" in testing, we'll turn to alternatives.

Wilson 07-03-2018 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43952772)
Yes, but if the F9 won't fit, I doubt the GM 9.25 would fit? As mentioned above, most running 40s on Toyota 8" aren't breaking the gears, they're breaking the CVs. And we'll be running new prototype RCVs, so we should be covered there.

If we break the 8" in testing, we'll turn to alternatives.

Depends.... the f9 is designed to be centered and is not contoured to fit around other components, as your 8" and the 9.25 are. Don't get me wrong, if this were my build step one would be to cut off everything below the frame rails and build from scratch.

Charles4x4 07-05-2018 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson (Post 43952846)
Depends.... the f9 is designed to be centered and is not contoured to fit around other components, as your 8" and the 9.25 are. Don't get me wrong, if this were my build step one would be to cut off everything below the frame rails and build from scratch.

Good point. I'll look into the GM 9.25 and a Tundra 9" Clamshell.

Charles4x4 07-06-2018 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson (Post 43952846)
Depends.... the f9 is designed to be centered and is not contoured to fit around other components, as your 8" and the 9.25 are. Don't get me wrong, if this were my build step one would be to cut off everything below the frame rails and build from scratch.

We measured again yesterday and nothing above the Toyota 8" will fit.

The only way to get a different front diff in there is to do what you said above - cut the factory cross members, which isn't allowed in the 4600 rules:

"Stock frame (frame is considered to be the primary frame rails and all permanently factory cross members) must be retained, and must be complete and unmodified. No material may be removed for any reason and no section of the frame may be 'massaged' or re-shaped with the following limitations and exceptions: The rear portion of the frame and rear cross member may be removed or trimmed for the sole purpose installing an aftermarket rear bumper. Frames may be reinforced by adding material."

So, the current plan remains.

Wilson 07-06-2018 08:50 AM

You see "crossmembers," I see "suspension mounting points."

Charles4x4 07-06-2018 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson (Post 43956100)
You see "crossmembers," I see "suspension mounting points."

I've had countless racers tell me: "Don't overthink it - just follow the rules." I think that's advice I'm going to stick with.

And regardless - the purpose, and uniqueness of this build is that it is a true "Stock Class" build. Not a fully fabricated buggy that looks like a 4Runner. It'll be something that everyone who owns a IFS Daily Driver can relate to and aspire to. Will it win - I hope so! But first and foremost, it'll showcase what a well built Toyota can actually do at KOH, within the Stock Class 4600 rules.

As soon as I start "interpreting" the rules and cutting everything off, I've defeated my purpose and am no different than the 4500 and 4800 buggies.

My sponsors and I want to see how well an IFS based 4th Gen v8 4runner can actually do at KOH when armed with an amazing team, products, sponsors, and solid fabrication, where permitted and intended.

matzell 07-07-2018 06:55 AM

I will beat the "dead horse" again. You need acceleration! Lower gears will help with this. it seems you are looking at crawl ratio and 3rd gear. You need to accelerate in high range as well. You have a lot of sections that you will be in high range. In years past, 2016-2017 I ran the whole first lap in 4-hi. In low range use "Overdrive". No problem running 4th and 5th gears in the desert.

For reference, I have 5:38 axle gears, a 2:1 case and a 6 speed tranny. (37" tires) I have done 78 mph in 5th gear low range, across the lakebed and been below 6000 rpms and a gear to go. In 2017 I forgot to shift back to high after pit 2b and ran the rest of the race in 4 low. Had people behind me and did not want to stop to shift.

You have a 5 speed trans, use all the gears to your advantage and forget about this whole "3rd gear thing"!

I know you have a v-8 and it feels fast on the street. Take it out in the sand and see how it does in HIGH range and how much power if feels like it has. Last time I checked you will still be under 300 hp, which is not a lot in the "racing " world.

You ask for opinions on this site and others. Several racers with experience have responded and given you real world advise. Take the time to listen and learn from our experience. It is a race car. IF you want to still DD this then hit up Mall Crawler and see what he runs in his old 4500 car and ask him why he no longer races it.

montezuma 07-07-2018 01:54 PM

Have you ever been to the hammers, or been part of a desert race team?

pennsylvaniaboy 07-08-2018 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43940712)
I actually had Brian at 4WU say the same. But with 4.56 gears and the big V8 swapping between Hi and Low, my team in CA thinks the 4.3 Atlas will work fine.

I'm no T-Case expert though, but I looked at the math using an online RPM to T-Case to Diff calculator and 2:1 didn't look like a good fit for both high-speed desert + rock crawling (or maybe rock bouncing is a better term). I can't remember the exact math though - maybe RPMs were too high in the desert and speed was too high in the rocks if I recall.

they make a 3.1?!

Charles4x4 07-09-2018 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matzell (Post 43957304)
I will beat the "dead horse" again. You need acceleration! Lower gears will help with this. it seems you are looking at crawl ratio and 3rd gear. You need to accelerate in high range as well. You have a lot of sections that you will be in high range. In years past, 2016-2017 I ran the whole first lap in 4-hi. In low range use "Overdrive". No problem running 4th and 5th gears in the desert.

For reference, I have 5:38 axle gears, a 2:1 case and a 6 speed tranny. (37" tires) I have done 78 mph in 5th gear low range, across the lakebed and been below 6000 rpms and a gear to go. In 2017 I forgot to shift back to high after pit 2b and ran the rest of the race in 4 low. Had people behind me and did not want to stop to shift.

You have a 5 speed trans, use all the gears to your advantage and forget about this whole "3rd gear thing"!

I know you have a v-8 and it feels fast on the street. Take it out in the sand and see how it does in HIGH range and how much power if feels like it has. Last time I checked you will still be under 300 hp, which is not a lot in the "racing " world.

You ask for opinions on this site and others. Several racers with experience have responded and given you real world advise. Take the time to listen and learn from our experience. It is a race car. IF you want to still DD this then hit up Mall Crawler and see what he runs in his old 4500 car and ask him why he no longer races it.

Thanks for all the great advice. I passed your suggestion along to the team. As long as we aren't locked into 4.56 in the RJ60, we still have time to make a change.

Thanks for bring it up again - your experience and advice are greatly appreciated!

Charles4x4 07-09-2018 09:18 AM

Update: I'm close to being finished with the DD - maybe 2-weeks left - then I can stop driving the 4th gen and the true tear-down begins. More updates below:

In Process:
- Front Suspension and Steering are being fabricated
- Front RCV Front Axle Shafts are being engineered
- Rear RockSolidToys 4-Link Suspension brackets are completed
- Rear Currie RJ60 is being made (not sure if they have done gearing or not yet)
- AEM Fuel System gauges (2) likely go in this week

Still working on:
- URD MAF Calibrator in the mail
- Fiberwerx Fenders in the mail
- PRP Seats being ordered
- Locking down sponsors for Armor and Tires
- Lock down fuel cell dimensions and dual-pump system

I'm also struggling to find reasonably priced 4th gen salvage doors shells (4) and lift gate to gut. If anyone knows of any in the Southeast, PM me!

the_white_shadow 07-09-2018 10:02 AM

Just gut the ones you have on the 4runner now. This a race car. No point in trying to keep it a daily driver. You have to pick one or the other.

Charles4x4 07-09-2018 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_white_shadow (Post 43959974)
Just gut the ones you have on the 4runner now. This a race car. No point in trying to keep it a daily driver. You have to pick one or the other.

Yes, that would certainly be faster. But I can sell the Limited Doors with windows, motors, eletrical, trim, etc for a lot and help offset a ton of cost.

The front fenders, bumpers, etc are all coming off and can be sold too.

I don't see any sense in cutting up high dollar, perfect condition stuff when I could cut up salvage level parts instead.

the_white_shadow 07-09-2018 10:10 AM

apparently you cant find them, thats the point.

Charles4x4 07-09-2018 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_white_shadow (Post 43960000)
apparently you cant find them, thats the point.

I've found some, but so far they are all more than I wanted to pay. I'm still looking for a good deal - from a salvage 4Runner but where the door shell is still in good condition. Shell only.

It's odd that Ebay has some for less than local salvage yards, including shipping. Which tells me I just need to keep looking around the Southeast - I should be able to get some for Ebay pricing minus shipping.

crazybluerider 07-09-2018 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43960008)
I've found some, but so far they are all more than I wanted to pay. I'm still looking for a good deal - from a salvage 4Runner but where the door shell is still in good condition. Shell only.

It's odd that Ebay has some for less than local salvage yards, including shipping. Which tells me I just need to keep looking around the Southeast - I should be able to get some for Ebay pricing minus shipping.

Or call the local salvage yard and tell them they are too high. Use Ebay pricing to prove it.

Doesn't anyone know how to haggle anymore?

Bones 07-09-2018 10:47 AM

Buys Limited 4Runner to race, will not commit to tearing it up. It will look cool on a trailer and dead in the water come MM 5 :shaking:

Charles4x4 07-09-2018 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazybluerider (Post 43960028)
Or call the local salvage yard and tell them they are too high. Use Ebay pricing to prove it.

Doesn't anyone know how to haggle anymore?

Yeah, I've got 2 I'm talking to now. The 3rd one wanted $2,500 for all 3. I offered based on Ebay pricing and he hung up on me.

Believe me, I'm pretty good at negotiating. Fingers crossed the one I just spoke to can find them for a good price. Otherwise Ebay is tempting...

The alternative is to buy a very high mileage 4th gen 4runner ($2,500ish), strip the doors, and part out / salvage the rest. But feels way too time consuming at this point.

yotota 07-10-2018 04:11 PM

I had a long reply typed out... but I doubt the advice would be heeded.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 43960086)
Buys Limited 4Runner to race, will not commit to tearing it up. It will look cool on a trailer and dead in the water come MM 5 :shaking:

Unfortunately, this is the direction that the project is going.

Charles4x4 07-10-2018 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yotota (Post 43962866)
I had a long reply typed out... but I doubt the advice would be heeded.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 43960086)
Buys Limited 4Runner to race, will not commit to tearing it up. It will look cool on a trailer and dead in the water come MM 5 <a href="https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/smilies/shaking.gif" border="0" alt="" title="shaking head" >:-)</a>

Unfortunately, this is the direction that the project is going.

Keep the motivational posts coming!

Black Sheep 07-10-2018 06:58 PM

You need something that resembles a door, not an actual door. Same thing for the rear hatch.

Tube, aluminum skin, voila.

sherm$ 07-11-2018 09:16 AM

5 pages of the gay. A race car is no place to pinch pennys

Charles4x4 07-11-2018 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sherm$ (Post 43963820)
A race car is no place to pinch pennys

Easy for you to say, you're not paying for it! See update below.

Charles4x4 07-11-2018 12:53 PM

Quick Update: Four salvage doors are being loaded on a pallet as we speak and will be go out tonight. Picked up all 4 shipped for less than 1 locally. Patience paid off big and allows me to put $ back into other parts of the budget.

More updates:
- Warn Zeon 10-S Platinum Winch in the mail
- URD MAF Calibrator in the mail
- Fiberwerx Fenders in the mail
- PRP Seats Ordered
- PRP Harnesses Ordered
- Solid progress on the Front Suspension and Steering this week

Will dive into fuel cell and system later this week. Special thanks to Matzell for his help with fuel setup suggestions.

Still looking to lock down my final tire sponsor. If you've got suggestions, PM me. I've got good pricing from one option already, but think we can get more.

Charles4x4 07-11-2018 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Sheep (Post 43963126)
You need something that resembles a door, not an actual door. Same thing for the rear hatch.

Tube, aluminum skin, voila.

Doors are locked in, but I'm going to have to do something creative for the rear hatch. Really wish I could find a way to take a hatch or tailgate and get it to fit somehow.

Salvage hatches are $$$.

Provience 07-11-2018 01:05 PM

why not gut the current hatch down to the skin?

If salveage hatces are $$$ then you could probably sell your good one, pick up some AL tube to make a minimalist frame and latch out of and then some AL sheet (.060 or .045 whatever is legal), put a couple rolls and bends into it to match 'the look' and be set. little bit of plastic with a couple layers of saran wrap for quick cleaning and visibility

Charles4x4 07-11-2018 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 43964278)
why not gut the current hatch down to the skin?

If salveage hatces are $$$ then you could probably sell your good one, pick up some AL tube to make a minimalist frame and latch out of and then some AL sheet (.060 or .045 whatever is legal), put a couple rolls and bends into it to match 'the look' and be set. little bit of plastic with a couple layers of saran wrap for quick cleaning and visibility

Exactly - this is the back-up plan if I a) can't find a salvage hatch or b) don't have any luck getting creative with a Toyota tailgate of some kind. Tubing, sheet metal, latches, and white paint.

A gutted hatch will actually work well for multiple purposes including housing the rear race lights, race numbers, etc required.

KOH Rules for this part of the build:
8.2.11: Stock doors may be modified to create half-doors and/or may also be replaced with tubular doors. Doors must open and close, bolted on panels are not allowed.
8.3.2 - 3:Stock doors may be modified to create half-doors and/or may also be replaced with tubular doors. Doors must open and close, bolted on panels are not allowed.

Provience 07-11-2018 01:21 PM

So it sounds like your only option for retaining a closed rear hatch is to gut the current stock one to nothing but the outer skin and add in jus enough bracing for it to open and close at the tech gate before it twists up and stops working :laughing:

Charles4x4 07-11-2018 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 43964308)
So it sounds like your only option for retaining a closed rear hatch is to gut the current stock one to nothing but the outer skin and add in jus enough bracing for it to open and close at the tech gate before it twists up and stops working :laughing:

My thoughts as well. And it'll weigh practically nothing after the glass and internals are gutted - most of which will be the outer skin the a little internal bracing already there.

I'll keep looking for a salvage shell. Found a group in CA who sells them fairly cheap, but they don't have one right now. I'm on their call list though.

Beat95YJ 07-11-2018 02:24 PM

Do you have to run a rear hatch? Usually they are minimal to allow tire clearance. Just a little around the edges.

Charles4x4 07-11-2018 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43964404)
Do you have to run a rear hatch? Usually they are minimal to allow tire clearance. Just a little around the edges.

4600 Class rules above (and pasted above again)

KOH Rules for this part of the build:
8.2.11: Stock doors may be modified to create half-doors and/or may also be replaced with tubular doors. Doors must open and close, bolted on panels are not allowed.
8.3.2 - 3:Stock doors may be modified to create half-doors and/or may also be replaced with tubular doors. Doors must open and close, bolted on panels are not allowed.

Beat95YJ 07-11-2018 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43964412)
4600 Class rules above (and pasted above again)

KOH Rules for this part of the build:
8.2.11: Stock doors may be modified to create half-doors and/or may also be replaced with tubular doors. Doors must open and close, bolted on panels are not allowed.
8.3.2 - 3:Stock doors may be modified to create half-doors and/or may also be replaced with tubular doors. Doors must open and close, bolted on panels are not allowed.

I read that, but I would argue that a hatch is not a door.

A 4Runner is considered a four-door, not a five door.

Provience 07-11-2018 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43964404)
Do you have to run a rear hatch? Usually they are minimal to allow tire clearance. Just a little around the edges.

only reason is to keep in cab dust down.

i'd say it would be worth it for the couple pounds it will weigh


edit: if they consider it not a door, then skin it, weld it and close it with some plastic

Beat95YJ 07-11-2018 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 43964424)
only reason is to keep in cab dust down.

Once all the glass is removed and half doors are on, the hatch won’t do much.

SLOWPOKE693 07-11-2018 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43964416)
I read that, but I would argue that a hatch is not a door.

A 4Runner is considered a four-door, not a five door.


I agree with this 100%.

How many 4600 cherokees, grand cherokees and any other SUV style rig out there are running hatches? Where do you put the spare tires:confused:

SLOWPOKE693 07-11-2018 02:42 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Couple of examples....

Provience 07-11-2018 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43964436)
Once all the glass is removed and half doors are on, the hatch won’t do much.

math numbers pressure, it will catch some wind to keep it from blowing straight through as bad, little bit of a bubble.

hell, I guess it is easy enough to test if it will be enough to matter or not, roll down all the windows and remove the windshield, tear up and down a couple dirt roads with the rear glass rolled up and with it rolled down.

might not be enough to matter or it might be, really only takes about half hour to decide if right for him or not.

I find that I prefer dusty roads with the back glass up if windows are down in a 4runner, but I've not tried it without a windshield or windscreen of any sort

Beat95YJ 07-11-2018 02:46 PM

2 Attachment(s)
An example of a rear “hatch”. Only the ring around the window was kept.

Bones 07-11-2018 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43964412)
4600 Class rules above (and pasted above again)

KOH Rules for this part of the build:
8.2.11: Stock doors may be modified to create half-doors and/or may also be replaced with tubular doors. Doors must open and close, bolted on panels are not allowed.
8.3.2 - 3:Stock doors may be modified to create half-doors and/or may also be replaced with tubular doors. Doors must open and close, bolted on panels are not allowed.

Sounds like tube doors would have solved all this nonsense. Sell your 4 "good stock doors" and rear hatch to recoup that expense. "Keep the dust down"....Come awn! Is he going to be rocking the AC as well. Hate to get too hot in the race suit. :rolleyes:

This is the most overthought thread on the internet right now I swear.

Charles4x4 07-11-2018 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWPOKE693 (Post 43964446)
Couple of examples....

Yeah, it's actually odd. A ton of 4600 rigs put tubing and latches in when the class was first announced. But lately, I've seen the same rigs adding a tailgate or hatch back on. Maybe for rules changes - maybe to keep the dust down - maybe for sponsor "looks".

I specifically recall a 1st gen removing the tube and latches the 3rd or so year of 4600 and putting a stock tailgate back on per Tech request I think... Maybe some of them will chime in.

In last year's race, I felt like the majority of 4600 rigs had a stock looking tailgate or rear hatch, but I may be wrong.

EDIT:
Found it: VAROKCRWLR - Jan 10, 2015 - "Had to modify the rear bumper. Apparently when the rule book says all doors must operate...this includes a working tailgate....so off with the old and on with the new:"

Post:
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gene...l#post29828825

Thread:
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gene...rebuild-2.html

Beat95YJ 07-11-2018 02:50 PM

Sounds like you need to ask whoever is in charge of tech these days.

hurleygo3 07-11-2018 03:22 PM

Rare for pirate lately, but there's actually some good discussions in this thread. :D

As for the gear choice. Like has already been stated. KOH is a bunch sprints in the desert. Way to many guys focus on swinging dick top speed numbers. I've done ok at KOH. I think the top speed I've ever seen was 72mph, this year we never saw over 56mph.

A lot of guys run spools up front. But most of the fast guys in the desert are running open in the desert with selectable lockers. Will handle better, steer better in the rocks and easier on parts.

Charles4x4 07-11-2018 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 43964496)
Rare for pirate lately, but there's actually some good discussions in this thread. :D

As for the gear choice. Like has already been stated. KOH is a bunch sprints in the desert. Way to many guys focus on swinging dick top speed numbers. I've done ok at KOH. I think the top speed I've ever seen was 72mph, this year we never saw over 56mph.

A lot of guys run spools up front. But most of the fast guys in the desert are running open in the desert with selectable lockers. Will handle better, steer better in the rocks and easier on parts.

Solid advice - thank you! We're definitely doing selectable ARB in the front. Still waiting to see if we can change our 4.56 to 4.88 or higher - we ordered the RJ60 a few weeks ago, but I think we're going to end up with 4.88s.

I thought my team had some good advice when I spoke with them about the gears last week:

In summary:
- We can go to a 4.88s, but we wouldn't go any lower than that.
- Guys running 5.38s have 1 ton axle under their light weight buggies, not IFS diffs sitting under an SUV.
- Running in 4600 class is a ballet of compromises. We don't have the luxury of throwing the biggest and strongest at this so we have to play it smart with our compromises.
- Running anything bigger than 4.88 and we think we'll be looking at replacing the front diff a number of times during the race.

Provience 07-11-2018 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 43964458)
Sounds like tube doors would have solved all this nonsense. Sell your 4 "good stock doors" and rear hatch to recoup that expense. "Keep the dust down"....Come awn! Is he going to be rocking the AC as well. Hate to get too hot in the race suit. :rolleyes:

This is the most overthought thread on the internet right now I swear.

wasn't keeping A/C one of the first things stated on page 1? :flipoff2:

Black Sheep 07-11-2018 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43964238)
Doors are locked in, but I'm going to have to do something creative for the rear hatch. Really wish I could find a way to take a hatch or tailgate and get it to fit somehow.

Salvage hatches are $$$.

You're stepping over dollars to pick up dimes. It has to function like the stock piece in "spirit". I hope you gut and cut all the salvage doors in half.

There was a few times around hammertown where I couldnt see my hand in front of my face due to dust. Open desert running balls out (you wont have the suspension to hit high speeds like U4) at 50mph there wont be a dust problem.

My quick search didnt turn up. But which company build a newer gen 4runner just to prove the IFS can handle 35s? RCV? FROR?

Provience 07-11-2018 05:38 PM

Front Range Offroad built a 3rd gen using an 8" front diff from a newer (I don't know much about anything, so year range is for somebody who cares to look it up) toyota and it seems to be working well on 37" tires

RCV/Tech Tim was running 35"s for a long time and posting about it on here for a while. Several others have also made decent compromise setups, but I don't know that there has been a Toyota IFS finisher at KOH

Bones 07-12-2018 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43964530)
- Running anything bigger than 4.88 and we think we'll be looking at replacing the front diff a number of times during the race.

You really think you would be replacing a diff during a race? Multiple times? There is a time limit on crossing the finish line ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 43964676)
Front Range Offroad built a 3rd gen using an 8" front diff from a newer (I don't know much about anything, so year range is for somebody who cares to look it up) toyota and it seems to be working well on 37" tires

I would love to see any details about this (especially if it's a 3rd gen). Sounds cool as hell

Provience 07-12-2018 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 43965378)
You really think you would be replacing a diff during a race? Multiple times? There is a time limit on crossing the finish line ;)


I would love to see any details about this (especially if it's a 3rd gen). Sounds cool as hell

https://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/

This 1996 Toyota 4Runner Proves IFS Doesn’t Have to Be Weak

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyo...tions-now.html

post #27. it is a really nice setup, saw it out there at the first trail hero, hopefully it is out there again this year. I would love to do this to my wifes car :laughing: it would beat the hell out of a solid axle for a 99% street rig, saving my pennies now so it will probably be a decade and fully fleshed out design by the time I can get to it


edit: so FROR is using "03 and up" front end parts, this thread being about an 06 should match and be buildable that way. like I said, I've never paid much attention to the newer stuff.

Bones 07-12-2018 12:58 PM

Thanks, that is awesome!

yotota 07-13-2018 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43963122)
Keep the motivational posts coming!

I'm not meaning to be a dick about it, just pointing out what we're all seeing here.

Maybe you and your team are getting ready to start cutting, gutting, fabbing, and making this an actual race car.

All we're seeing are minor bolt-on mods and a reluctance to really tear into the car. I truly hope you prove us wrong.

Goldie Locks 07-13-2018 05:16 PM

Is this fantasy build ever going to start?

Charles4x4 07-17-2018 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 43965378)
You really think you would be replacing a diff during a race? Multiple times? There is a time limit on crossing the finish line ;)

Agreed - Exactly what we're trying to avoid.

Charles4x4 07-17-2018 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 43966140)
https://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/

This 1996 Toyota 4Runner Proves IFS Doesn’t Have to Be Weak

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyo...tions-now.html

post #27. it is a really nice setup, saw it out there at the first trail hero, hopefully it is out there again this year. I would love to do this to my wifes car :laughing: it would beat the hell out of a solid axle for a 99% street rig, saving my pennies now so it will probably be a decade and fully fleshed out design by the time I can get to it


edit: so FROR is using "03 and up" front end parts, this thread being about an 06 should match and be buildable that way. like I said, I've never paid much attention to the newer stuff.

Great compilation of threads! I spoke with Brian about this months ago and it sounds similar to our current plan - but our RCVs will be stronger! Toyota 8", next gen RCVs, ARB. And we'll have ATRAC (unless it becomes a hinderance) to help save the front diff.

If you all see anything different in his setup, let me know. Here's what I got from the article:

"Under the 3/16-inch-thick skidplate, Ellinger replaced the 7 1/2-inch front differential with an 8-inch differential from a later model 4Runner along with a custom intermediate shaft, housing, and mounts. It uses 4.88 gears and an ARB Air Locker with super-strong chromoly RCV axleshafts that are 30-spline throughout (like an upgraded Toyota solid axle) to make the whole thing live, even with 37-inch-tall tires. Tacomas use the same front axle components, and all of these parts are interchangeable."

Bones 07-17-2018 09:59 AM

You just quoted the article, what would we know that's any different...you talked to him :rolleyes:

This thread is like a trainwreck of stupidity I can't stay away from

Charles4x4 07-17-2018 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 43973022)
You just quoted the article, what would we know that's any different...you talked to him :rolleyes:

This thread is like a trainwreck of stupidity I can't stay away from

I spoke with him Months Ago (see post above), long before our plans were laid. At that time, we were aiming for a F9 or a custom Diamond IFS Center, but it didn't work out. We spoke about this 8" setup briefly, but I wonder if others on here know more. If I'm not missing anything, then our current plans are confirmed.

And I cannot help but respond to your comments - I've been biting my tongue for a while now. You have 25K+ posts on Pirate - I hope at least some small percentage of them have been productive. Otherwise, you have wasted a ton of time. Given your comments of this build thread, why don't you just unsubscribe?

Charles4x4 07-17-2018 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yotota (Post 43968062)
I'm not meaning to be a dick about it, just pointing out what we're all seeing here.

Maybe you and your team are getting ready to start cutting, gutting, fabbing, and making this an actual race car.

All we're seeing are minor bolt-on mods and a reluctance to really tear into the car. I truly hope you prove us wrong.

Hey, I get it - patience is the key. And believe me, I am more anxious to tear into it than anyone else on here. I'm about to post a small update below.

Charles4x4 07-17-2018 11:24 AM

Update:
I've been out of town the past week, but here is a quick update on this build:
1) Our new Warn ZEON Platinum 10-S winch arrived yesterday. It's a thing of beauty and the remote will definitely come in handly for our co-driver at KOH!

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a0&oe=5BCF9A41

2) I knocked out a few small projects, including swapping in a new O2 sensor damaged when we did the Y-Pipe cat delete (this 4.7L V8 is really squeezed in there). The new sensor eliminted the CEL I was getting. I'm still waiting on the URD MAF Calibrator to arrive and will install my AEM gauges before we do final tuning.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...5d&oe=5BD53126

3) The Salvage doors arrive on Wed. Then I'll check out the internal bracing and see how much more we want to cut. I'm hoping they are really light in already gutted condition.

4) We are now only down to one sponsor need for tires. I've reached out to BFG, Goodyear, Maxxis, Nitto, Cooper, and Falken. So far Falken and Maxxis have shown strongest interest.

5) I've finalized plans with two additional sponsors. More to come on these in a few weeks.

Finally, the DD should be back from paint by the end of next week at the latest and ready for reassembly. As soon as it is done, the interior tear-down on this one will begin along with the doors and front fenders. Then the transformation will really begin to take shape. Thanks for your patience!

Bones 07-17-2018 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43973186)
So far Falken and Maxxis have shown strongest interest.

Do not send them a link to this thread :laughing:

Provience 07-17-2018 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43973152)
I spoke with him Months Ago (see post above), long before our plans were laid. At that time, we were aiming for a F9 or a custom Diamond IFS Center, but it didn't work out. We spoke about this 8" setup briefly, but I wonder if others on here know more. If I'm not missing anything, then our current plans are confirmed.

And I cannot help but respond to your comments - I've been biting my tongue for a while now. You have 25K+ posts on Pirate - I hope at least some small percentage of them have been productive. Otherwise, you have wasted a ton of time. Given your comments of this build thread, why don't you just unsubscribe?

I only saw his rig in 2016, so your information is more current than mine other than it seems to have been holding up well for the last couple of years of use and abuse :smokin:

there was a glitch in time and space, i've probably got 25k posts in chit-chat that magically appeared one day :laughing: post count doesn't equal anything on this board. they'd turn it off, but then the :spam: bots would just do more hotlinking

bark beetle 07-17-2018 08:53 PM

Why not break new ground and figure out how to stuff a Tundra 9” front IFS diff in this build, lead not follow. Even better would be the complete Tundra drivetrain, it pretty serious beef. I also want to advise against retaining the ABS and therefore ATRAC. Every Toyota ABS I have dealt with is very sensitive and makes stopping in the dirt dangerous because it kicks in way to early. ATRAC is also worthless if the rotors get wet or muddy. Go find my Tundra build thread and you will see why. I will never rely on fake lockers again, they will fail you when you need them the most. Three wheel drive at Johnson Valley equals more winching than you will ever want in a lifetime.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Bones 07-18-2018 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43973152)
I spoke with him Months Ago (see post above), long before our plans were laid. At that time, we were aiming for a F9 or a custom Diamond IFS Center, but it didn't work out. We spoke about this 8" setup briefly, but I wonder if others on here know more. If I'm not missing anything, then our current plans are confirmed.

And I cannot help but respond to your comments - I've been biting my tongue for a while now. You have 25K+ posts on Pirate - I hope at least some small percentage of them have been productive. Otherwise, you have wasted a ton of time. Given your comments of this build thread, why don't you just unsubscribe?

I used to contribute a lot to this site back when people did build threads galore and there was a lot of tech being shared since the aftermarket was A LOT smaller. I have been out of the "hardcore" side of this for well over a decade and prefer my mild wheeler/camping rig. I have been around this hobby for a long long time and built/helped build a few rigs, was on an XRRA/KOH team forever ago as well.

My opinion of what your are attempting here, while admirable, is more keyboard clatter than a build. We are on page 3 now and you have installed an O2 sensor and an exhaust while chasing sponsors and ordering up a winch and some extra doors. There is no chance this will be done in time, let alone competitive, tested and ready to race KOH. Good luck and I hope you prove me wrong. Won't be the fits time.

LowDown 07-18-2018 07:06 AM

-I dig it so build it like you want. Everyone has to learn their own way; for some of us it's the hard way but it's the only way we know. I get it.
-With that said, this a heck of an under taking and sounds like you're going learn a ton of things as result of the build including practicality. You're building a race truck not a dream trail truck. A race truck gets the shit beat out of it unmercifully but still has to get the job done while you can take it easy enough on a trail truck that you have the luxury of trying to maintain something a bit more refined. Don't get me wrong, maintaining a clean-ish race truck is possible but more for a really seasoned guy. Don't take things ridiculously seriously (not saying you are) and remember to have fun with it.
-Most of the guys on this board are full of shit so listen to your gut and those you trust. Good luck with the build.

Charles4x4 07-18-2018 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bark beetle (Post 43973954)
Why not break new ground and figure out how to stuff a Tundra 9” front IFS diff in this build, lead not follow. Even better would be the complete Tundra drivetrain, it pretty serious beef. I also want to advise against retaining the ABS and therefore ATRAC. Every Toyota ABS I have dealt with is very sensitive and makes stopping in the dirt dangerous because it kicks in way to early. ATRAC is also worthless if the rotors get wet or muddy. Go find my Tundra build thread and you will see why. I will never rely on fake lockers again, they will fail you when you need them the most. Three wheel drive at Johnson Valley equals more winching than you will ever want in a lifetime.

We've thought about the Tundra 9" diff for a while now. I just wonder how much stronger it'd be and if we can even fit it.

And remember we're running a ARBs front and rear. We're just trying to keep ATRAC so we can save the ARB for only when we need it to help keep wear and tear down on the front diff.

And I'm pretty certain there won't be much mud at JV in Feb. :)

Charles4x4 07-18-2018 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 43974314)
I used to contribute a lot to this site back when people did build threads galore and there was a lot of tech being shared since the aftermarket was A LOT smaller. I have been out of the "hardcore" side of this for well over a decade and prefer my mild wheeler/camping rig. I have been around this hobby for a long long time and built/helped build a few rigs, was on an XRRA/KOH team forever ago as well.

My opinion of what your are attempting here, while admirable, is more keyboard clatter than a build. We are on page 3 now and you have installed an O2 sensor and an exhaust while chasing sponsors and ordering up a winch and some extra doors. There is no chance this will be done in time, let alone competitive, tested and ready to race KOH. Good luck and I hope you prove me wrong. Won't be the fits time.

Thanks for your reply - it's the nicest one I've seen from you. I can see your point of view, but you also don't have the luxury of seeing what all is going on behind the scenes. More on that below.

And as mentioned in my first few posts, I'm the kind of person that always finishes what I start. This build will be done in time, tested, and ready to race in Feb! Will it be competitive - I certainly hope and pray so!

Bones 07-18-2018 08:59 AM

What exactly are you meaning by wear and tear on the front diff? I do not see ATRAC helping out for this build. ARB off except when in the rocks and stay off the stupid pedal. Get good with a winch, I see a lot of time wasted to poor/no winch strategy.

If it were me and I was entering this class my first purchase would be a Gigglepin and making it fit

Charles4x4 07-18-2018 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowDown (Post 43974348)
-I dig it so build it like you want. Everyone has to learn their own way; for some of us it's the hard way but it's the only way we know. I get it.
-With that said, this a heck of an under taking and sounds like you're going learn a ton of things as result of the build including practicality. You're building a race truck not a dream trail truck. A race truck gets the shit beat out of it unmercifully but still has to get the job done while you can take it easy enough on a trail truck that you have the luxury of trying to maintain something a bit more refined. Don't get me wrong, maintaining a clean-ish race truck is possible but more for a really seasoned guy. Don't take things ridiculously seriously (not saying you are) and remember to have fun with it.
-Most of the guys on this board are full of shit so listen to your gut and those you trust. Good luck with the build.

Good advice. This build will be a bit different - it certainly won't be a beater race truck, which my sponsors would have zero interest in.

Priority #1 is performing great at KOH and we're on track there with some amazing fabricators and parts!

Priority #2 is sticking with my original vision (not another KOH buggy) and having a race vehicle the "Everyman" can actually relate to - with IFS front suspension - that performs great when it matters, on race day.

Charles4x4 07-18-2018 09:12 AM

I thought it may help to give a glimpse into the behind the scenes a little more. If you're only watching this thread for the hardcore stuff that is yet to come, skip this post.

From what I know so far, here is what it takes to make something like this Steel City Racing KOH project happen! Since I really committed to this build in May, I've spent a lot of time:
- Reading the Ultra4 rulebook 3-4 times and making lists of everything I have to get done to pass tech and stay within the 4600 class rules
- Creating a budget and a "dream build" list of To-Dos that fit the vision of this build and the 4600 class rules
- Pulling together the story of this project, which was critical for grabbing initial sponsor interest
- Filling out sponsorship paperwork, online forms, and legal documents - probably 50 forms filled out in total
- Building momentum with sponsors. Once you land 2-3, it does get easier.
- Landing sponsors, we are now up to 15 with 1 mandatory (Tires) sponsor remaining and 3 optional ones outstanding
- Creating relationships with groups like Marlin Crawler and RockSolidToys who believe in your vision and are willing to do whatever it takes to make it happen. Without BigMike and Wyatt in particular - and their willingness to connect us with others in the industry and build amazing parts for this rig - this build would be tough!

In today's age, the currency is no longer build-threads on forums. I'm doing build threads like this for ideas, diversity of thought, and because I think they are mostly extinct today which is a shame. Instead, it's social media that brings sponsors to the table. So, I had to:
- Create a rendering of how the vehicle will look
- Create social media campaigns for Facebook and Instagram (more time consuming than I had expected)
- Get the word out on forums, family & friends, and with Toyota enthusiasts.
- Constantly post new content to keep the interest (tough some days)

I then was finally able to get rolling - so, I started
- Looking for a no-rust, low mileage, affordably priced 4th gen v8 4x4 Sport or Limited (much harder to find than expected)
- Finishing my DD so I can tear into this one (still have a few weeks left - it's in Paint now)

We entered Phase I - Engine Performance, which I could do while the DD wasn't complete:
- Install Magnaflow exhaust, URD y-pipe with cat delete, new Denso O2 sensors, aFe Power air intake, URD 170 degree thermostat, AEM AFR and Fuel Pressure gauges, Doug Torley Headers (not yet installed), and URD MAF Calibrator (in the mail)

At the same time, I am still acquiring parts:
- The Warn ZEON 10-S Platinum winch arrived
- Fiberwerx Fenders are in the mail
- Front seats and harnesses are in the mail (seat brackets arrived)
- Salvage doors arrive on a 18-wheeler today (still looking for a liftgate)

Once the DD is done in a few weeks, I can tear out the 4th gen interior and remove exterior stuff, remove the stock doors, start on the fuel system, and work on armor (more to come here with a sponsor I just landed on Monday).

As we speak, the following is also in process:
- Rear RJ60 is ordered and being built
- Front suspension prototype should be complete in the next 2-4 weeks
- Front steering prototype is on the same timeline
- Front RCV Next Gen axle shafts are being engineered but won't be ready till the Fall
- Rear bumper prototype is being engineered and will be ready in the Fall
- Atlas II is being ordered
- Rear 4-Link is done and ready to be installed once the front suspension is on
- Coilovers, Coils, and Shocks are ready to go once the suspension is on
- Tires (still need a sponsor here) and Wheels will be ordered
- Driveshafts are envisioned and final specs will be dialed in once the suspension is on and final angles/measurements can be taken
- Roll cage is envisioned

All of that while balancing family life and running a small business. Note that the 4runner will be in CA for the real fabrication, starting in August.

So, if you're just looking at pictures, I think you may not be seeing the full story of what all has gone into this build thus far.

Lastly, as a shameless plug, if you want to help this build to keep up momentum with happy sponsors, please follow it on IG and FB and tell your friends. We need more followers - which will come from word of mouth from forum members like you and with momentum once the "sexy" fabrication side of the build really takes off. Social media is today's sponsorship currency, period!

And please PM me with any ideas or contacts you may have for Tire Sponsorship!

Charles4x4 07-18-2018 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 43974514)
What exactly are you meaning by wear and tear on the front diff? I do not see ATRAC helping out for this build. ARB off except when in the rocks and stay off the stupid pedal. Get good with a winch, I see a lot of time wasted to poor/no winch strategy.

If it were me and I was entering this class my first purchase would be a Gigglepin and making it fit

Here's the plan:
- Regular 4x4 in the Desert.
- ATRAC Front/Rear ARB on when slow in the rocks (only kicks in at slower speeds and acts as a limited slip).
- Front/Rear ARB on when ATRAC doesn't suffice in the rocks.
- Winch (via Warn sponsorship and the new ZEON 10-S Platinum posted above) when ARB doesn't get it done in the rocks.

Bones 07-18-2018 09:34 AM

You won't be tearing into this until late August and expect to be at KOH in February and be competitive? Oh and get LOTS of testing in?

You have lost me again with a long winded post with the same broken record BS nobody cares to read here.

Bones 07-18-2018 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43974590)
Here's the plan:
- Regular 4x4 in the Desert.
- ATRAC Front/Rear ARB on when slow in the rocks (only kicks in at slower speeds and acts as a limited slip).
- Front/Rear ARB on when ATRAC doesn't suffice in the rocks.
- Winch (via Warn sponsorship and the new ZEON 10-S Platinum posted above) when ARB doesn't get it done in the rocks.

How does ATRAC work when you replace the entire carrier with an ARB? I would assume you just lost you limited slip installing a full carrier air locker. Am I wrong here?

Charles4x4 07-18-2018 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 43974612)
How does ATRAC work when you replace the entire carrier with an ARB? I would assume you just lost you limited slip installing a full carrier air locker. Am I wrong here?

Yes, pasted from another post above.

"ATRAC uses brake control to essentially keep a "limited slip" type setup in the front. With ATRAC, the front diff is open, which allows us to put in an ARB locker in the front so we have the best of both. If the ABS gets in the way, we'll scrap ATRAC and just have ARB in the front.

We'd plan on using the ATRAC limited slip in the front for moderate speed areas (it disables at high speed) and then engage the front ARB for the hardest sections.

Some say ATRAC is crap - others think it could make all the difference at KOH.

From a Toyota forum:
"ATRAC's sole purpose is to provide near equal wheel speeds without over stressing the drive line or brakes."
"The big difference between ATRAC and a locker is that you will lose a little momentum with ATRAC because the wheel needs to slip first before it activates. This all happens very quickly but sometimes momentum is the key...Lockers provide equal torque all the time, when engaged."
"I found ATRAC very effective with moderate and extreme wheeling. My use goes something like this: ATRAC on all the time, on hard obstacles, rear locker used 20%, front locker on 5% of the time."

As mentioned, we'll have both. And of course, the rear will have an ARB. There will be no open diffs!"

hurleygo3 07-18-2018 09:58 AM

Who's doing the fab work in Ca?

Charles4x4 07-18-2018 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 43974650)
Who's doing the fab work in Ca?

BigMike with Marlin Crawler, Wyatt Scott with RockSolidToys, a friend of Wyatt's is doing the cage, and 2-3 others not yet announced.

And, there is no reason to hold it back - Jesse with High Angle Driveline is doing the driveshafts on this project and helping us out a ton on pricing via Sponsorship.

Bones 07-18-2018 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43974626)
Yes, pasted from another post above that I'm sure you refused to read... :)

"ATRAC uses brake control to essentially keep a "limited slip" type setup in the front. With ATRAC, the front diff is open, which allows us to put in an ARB locker in the front so we have the best of both. If the ABS gets in the way, we'll scrap ATRAC and just have ARB in the front.

We'd plan on using the ATRAC limited slip in the front for moderate speed areas (it disables at high speed) and then engage the front ARB for the hardest sections.

Some say ATRAC is crap - others think it could make all the difference at KOH.

From a Toyota forum:
"ATRAC's sole purpose is to provide near equal wheel speeds without over stressing the drive line or brakes."
"The big difference between ATRAC and a locker is that you will lose a little momentum with ATRAC because the wheel needs to slip first before it activates. This all happens very quickly but sometimes momentum is the key...Lockers provide equal torque all the time, when engaged."
"I found ATRAC very effective with moderate and extreme wheeling. My use goes something like this: ATRAC on all the time, on hard obstacles, rear locker used 20%, front locker on 5% of the time."

As mentioned, we'll have both. And of course, the rear will have an ARB. There will be no open diffs!"

Gotcha, I must have read it last time and it never stuck.

Bust my balls all you wish. You have yet to deliver squat and just ramble on about the same BS over and over. I get it, you need/want sponsors. NONE of us here care about that. We are here to see a build up....now on page 4 with zero happening.

The Brawler 07-18-2018 10:36 AM

This thread needs a lot less talk, and a HELL of a lot more action if you plan on racing in 27 weeks. :barf:

Charles4x4 07-18-2018 05:37 PM

More parts arrived today! These Fiberwerx front Fiberglass 4.5” Bulge fenders will really help us for the 35s while keeping COG low. I plan on installing them when the salvage doors are ready (should be here next Wed).

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...20&oe=5BE7D595

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...29&oe=5BEA960D

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a8&oe=5BDEF763

Beat95YJ 07-18-2018 06:08 PM

A good friend of mine has low miles V8 4Runner That he is keeping around for a KOH stock build. I’m going to have to get on his case to build it just so I can show you how many mistakes you are making. You should be cutting the stock fenders instead of wasting money on fiberglass. You’re just going to destroy it and the rocks. And as somebody who worked in the after market and approved sponsor packages, I don’t give a shit how good your paint looks if you aren’t going to finish. I also don’t care if you have a PowerPoint presentation or a cute rendering. Come up with a plan to do stuff.

Charles4x4 07-18-2018 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43975420)
A good friend of mine has low miles V8 4Runner That he is keeping around for a KOH stock build. I’m going to have to get on his case to build it just so I can show you how many mistakes you are making. You should be cutting the stock fenders instead of wasting money on fiberglass. You’re just going to destroy it and the rocks. And as somebody who worked in the after market and approved sponsor packages, I don’t give a shit how good your paint looks if you aren’t going to finish. I also don’t care if you have a PowerPoint presentation or a cute rendering. Come up with a plan to do stuff.

Fiberglass fenders are light and provide the clearance we need for the class - and they are sponsored, so if they get hit in the rocks that is okay. I cannot see any logic on how hacking up sheet metal fenders is a better idea.

We have a solid team and plan. And see the post above - we have a ton of stuff in progress.

Finally, and I’ll be honest - it takes time to keep build threads up like these. If the majority of the posts are going to be griping and complaining without any real suggestions, feedback, or ideas, I’ll be happy to spend my time on Toyota forum build threads and Social Media (which is all that matters to my sponsors from a product promotional perspective) instead. I'm as anxious as anyone to tear into this thing.

Provience 07-18-2018 08:05 PM

there is plenty of suggestions and feedback and ideas going around.

I'll 3rd that i was surprised to see fiberglass for the fenders, whatever no skin off my back.

Also, x3 or x4 on getting good at winching. you will be happier to engage the ARB before you 'need' it on the rocks. getting stuck when atrac fails and then engaging might not be the faster, overall, approach. winch early and often.

cryptic toy 07-18-2018 08:35 PM

I am agreeing with others on atrac ,abs and any other electronic traction aid that uses the brakes for somthing like this. You are going to be racing against time yet you want to use the brakes for a traction aid:confused: You need to take this runner out and do some pretend racing and beat it like you hate it and see how it reacts to certain conditions. What are the plans for rear quarters ? Are tires going to rub since they are flat tops ? If you have to cut them may as well cut the front. Quite sure there is a tool you can use to put a flange back on after its cut , it is similar to a door skin crimper , kind of like a bead flange roller .

YotaAtieToo 07-18-2018 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43974488)
And I'm pretty certain there won't be much mud at JV in Feb. :)

I really feel like you know damn near nothing about koh.

Beat95YJ 07-18-2018 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 43975662)
I really feel like you know damn near nothing about koh.

Ayup

Provience 07-18-2018 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43975672)
Ayup

mash gas, turn left, drink beer :confused: what's there to know? :rasta:

sherm$ 07-18-2018 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 43975662)
I really feel like you know damn near nothing about koh.

My feeling exactly.

Have you ever watched a race to see the punishment this thing will need to endure? Strength and reliability are 90%.

In also sure you know damn near nothing about pirate4x4. Nobody here gives a shit to see pics of plastic fenders or read your justifications about why this "build thread" has no build in it. You'll get no reach around here for buying a winch or installing an o2 sensor like you will on face space. Were on 7 pages of the gay now.:homer:

Black Sheep 07-18-2018 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43975474)
Finally, and I’ll be honest - it takes time to keep build threads up like these. If the majority of the posts are going to be griping and complaining without any real suggestions, feedback, or ideas, I’ll be happy to spend my time on Social Media (which is all that counts) and Toyota forum build threads instead.

Get the fuck outta here with that shit. If that is truly "all that counts", you're not building to race. You're bolting on because you like smoke blown up your ass.

Plenty of people have offered advice and you're being an askhole.

ky scrambled 07-19-2018 05:13 AM

Sweet thread! Fawk I thought JK guys were bad.

the_white_shadow 07-19-2018 05:37 AM

Guys, this Charles is just the money guy/keyboard jockey for this build. He is a bolt-on type guy and will be sending this out to get built by someone else. Which means he doesnt really have a clue on what he is doing. He also seems to ignore some pretty good advice given in this thread, but since PBB isnt fagbook, he doesnt give a shit. Good luck Charles, youre going to need it.

gnob 07-19-2018 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Sheep (Post 43975864)
Get the fuck outta here with that shit. If that is truly "all that counts", you're not building to race. You're bolting on because you like smoke blown up your ass.

Plenty of people have offered advice and you're being an askhole.

I agree. Social Media is definitely one thing that is completely irrelevant to KOH.
My guess is most mouthbreathers on SM don't even know what KOH is.

Charles4x4 07-19-2018 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 43975604)
there is plenty of suggestions and feedback and ideas going around.

I'll 3rd that i was surprised to see fiberglass for the fenders, whatever no skin off my back.

Also, x3 or x4 on getting good at winching. you will be happier to engage the ARB before you 'need' it on the rocks. getting stuck when atrac fails and then engaging might not be the faster, overall, approach. winch early and often.

Solid feedback. Here were my thoughts on the fenders:
1) Easiest way to get significant tire clearance within the 4600 rules:

- "Front inner fenders must be complete and unmodified, with the following limitations and exceptions: outer fenders (wheel well openings) may be trimmed for the single and exclusive purpose of allowing for tire clearance. Modifications to the outer fenders must preserve the look of the stock wheel wells, as originally manufactured, and must not be trimmed excessively (no more than a 2" gap between any part of the outer fender and the tire at full compression)."
- "Front outer fenders may be replaced with OEM-style aftermarket fenders (flared fiberglass fenders are permitted)."

2) Much lower chance of a tire puncture than bent sheet metal (due to rocks or suspension flex/over-travel in race conditions)
3) 4.5" Bulge provides tire coverage for the expanded WMS at the front (3-4" wider than stock on each side)
4) If we destroy them in the race, it's easy to remove damaged portions
5) They are extremely light

Agreed on the winching. My co-driver at EMC is a Fireman and Paramedic and are both avid cross fit guys, so we're in shape and good at winching.

On the locker - Ex. We'll have the front locker off using ATRAC to the bottom of Jack North. Once we start going up, we'll proactively engage the Front ARB. At the top, we'll turn it back off.

Charles4x4 07-19-2018 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic toy (Post 43975656)
I am agreeing with others on atrac ,abs and any other electronic traction aid that uses the brakes for somthing like this. You are going to be racing against time yet you want to use the brakes for a traction aid:confused: You need to take this runner out and do some pretend racing and beat it like you hate it and see how it reacts to certain conditions. What are the plans for rear quarters ? Are tires going to rub since they are flat tops ? If you have to cut them may as well cut the front. Quite sure there is a tool you can use to put a flange back on after its cut , it is similar to a door skin crimper , kind of like a bead flange roller .

Good feedback. We'll be testing the crap out of it on site at JV. If ATRAC is a hinderance, it'll be cut.

Rear quarters will be trimmed to fit once we get the 4-link on. I'm sure we'll be using that tool to put the flange back on.

Charles4x4 07-19-2018 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Sheep (Post 43975864)
Get the fuck outta here with that shit. If that is truly "all that counts", you're not building to race. You're bolting on because you like smoke blown up your ass.

Plenty of people have offered advice and you're being an askhole.

I edited and clarified the post. From a promotional perspective, my sponsors care about Social Media over build threads. That's where they sell and promote their product. From what I can tell, Social Media has replaced build threads from a sponsorship perspective.

From my countless discussions with them, their priorities are:
1) Perform on Race Day. Period. Finish, and hope to Win. Nothing else matters if it breaks a few miles in.
2) Get Good Promotion on Social Media before and during the race.
3) Look professional pulling up to the starting line, but know that it'll be damaged afterward.

This build would not happen without my team and my sponsors.

Charles4x4 07-19-2018 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnob (Post 43976004)
I agree. Social Media is definitely one thing that is completely irrelevant to KOH.
My guess is most mouthbreathers on SM don't even know what KOH is.

55,000 Followers here:
https://www.instagram.com/ultra4racing/?hl=en

And 50,000 Followers here:
https://www.facebook.com/Ultra4Racing/

And 225,000 Likes here:
https://www.facebook.com/KingofTheHammers/

Add the sponsors' SM pages (Monster Energy, Nitto, Optima Batteries, Griffin, 4WheelParts, etc) and you're far into in the Millions.

Look, I'm not a big social media fan either. I didn't have Facebook or Instagram pages until I started this build.

gnob 07-19-2018 08:33 AM

Sorry to say 50k is a nothing number on SM.

Ghetto Fab. 07-19-2018 09:11 AM

You've never mentioned what your experience level was with Johnson Valley? You mentioned in one of your first posts about having been out there for the race one time, but how much actual wheeling have you done out there? Not trying to be a dick just asking.

I feel like your biggest issue isn't necessarily going to be to build the vehicle in 27 weeks, but to build it, get it out there, test it, fix/rebuild/redesign, get back out there for the race. There's a lot of wasted travel time for you coming from the east coast, and its just time consuming to test and repair.

Have you driven all the trails that are normally on the course? I wouldn't even consider racing until I had driven all the trails normally on the courses first. I think it was Miller that comes out for a week in november to test? I'm guessing it takes 4-5days to get out there, a week to test, 4-5 days to get back. Then its teardown and prep for a couple months, and back out for the race. It just takes a lot of time and your at a severe disadvantage coming from the east.

Keep at it, but be realistic with your expectations. Just being at the start line come feb would be a huge win at this point.

Kevin

hurleygo3 07-19-2018 09:42 AM

I've raced KOH a few times and know a little about getting sponsors. Some sponsors just look at numbers on SM, some want a car that's going to cross the finish line, and some like a good relationship with the car. The fact that you've never raced and have a few people giving you parts. Means you're doing pretty good in that department.

I wouldn't worry much about running the trails. The trails run in the stock class are about as easy as they get, and change after every car comes through. So other than looking for bypasses. No need to prerun unless you have a spare car to prerun in. I've never once preran the course in my actual race car.

Mud? I've never seen mud on the course other that a short section of the lakebed or sitting in the pits. It's never a factor in the race.

I'd also keep it simple and just run the ARB locker.

YotaAtieToo 07-19-2018 02:34 PM

I wasn't suggesting mud would be an issue, the fact that he was *certain* there won't be mud was just funny. I remember one of the early years where it pored and a few people got stuck in the mud on a lake bed on the race course :laughing: also, many people had a hard time getting their tow rigs out.

The fact that using a factory traction control system is even an option shows how silly this build really is. I feel like he's going to cry when it gets destroyed on the first run.

Provience 07-19-2018 02:42 PM

There is a picture in one of the brake threads with an unlimited car and all 4 rotors glowing red. Wasn't a KOH race but it was dry and dusty and basically the dust was building up to the point that to have functioning brakes meant running with the pads in contact with the rotors constantly to keep them clean so they wouldn't just slide on dust marbles for a bit.

what kind of potential does that have for causing issue for ATRAC that relies on the braking system to finesse traction through the open carrier? Is that even a concern for a 'stock class' rig?

I dunno, just a thought that popped into my head. I don't think he will cry when it doesn't work, seems like it would be an easily defeated system (cut a couple wires and roll on) if it does turn out to be an issue

Corey Young 07-19-2018 04:03 PM

Looks good.

Maybe I missed it but when will it be race ready?

Charles4x4 07-19-2018 04:34 PM

Great discussions. Gonna keep the responses short:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghetto Fab. (Post 43976464)
You've never mentioned what your experience level was with Johnson Valley? Not trying to be a dick just asking.

I've personally never driven the Hammers trails. Our plan is to be on site in late Nov, Dec, and early Jan to Test, Tune, and Revise. Marlin and RockSolidToys have lined up a professional tuner to be there with us. And I'll have a long time KOH veteran there with us to drive the trails and portions of the course to "show us the ropes". He'll also be driving the rig himself to put it through it's paces. More to come on this later...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghetto Fab. (Post 43976464)
I'm guessing it takes 4-5days to get out there, a week to test, 4-5 days to get back. Then its teardown and prep for a couple months, and back out for the race. It just takes a lot of time and your at a severe disadvantage coming from the east.

Keep at it, but be realistic with your expectations. Just being at the start line come feb would be a huge win at this point.

Yeah, this wouldn't work. When I drive the vehicle to CA in Aug, it'll stay there through KOH. I travel a ton for work, so I'll be using points to fly back and forth. I can work from anywhere, so I'll be there for days/weeks at a time, if needed. But a lot will of fab work and testing happen to the rig while I'm not there under the team's supervision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 43976540)
I've raced KOH a few times and know a little about getting sponsors. Some sponsors just look at numbers on SM, some want a car that's going to cross the finish line, and some like a good relationship with the car. The fact that you've never raced and have a few people giving you parts. Means you're doing pretty good in that department.

I wouldn't worry much about running the trails. The trails run in the stock class are about as easy as they get, and change after every car comes through. So other than looking for bypasses. No need to prerun unless you have a spare car to prerun in. I've never once preran the course in my actual race car.

Mud? I've never seen mud on the course other that a short section of the lakebed or sitting in the pits. It's never a factor in the race.

I'd also keep it simple and just run the ARB locker.

Great advice as always. The bypasses were huge for 4600 last year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 43977288)
The fact that using a factory traction control system is even an option shows how silly this build really is. I feel like he's going to cry when it gets destroyed on the first run.

Trying to keep ATRAC is a recommendation our team received from ~5 KOH/Offroad Experts. If it doesn't work - it was worth a try and we'll turn it off with the flip of a switch (see below).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 43977300)
I dunno, just a thought that popped into my head. I don't think he will cry when it doesn't work, seems like it would be an easily defeated system (cut a couple wires and roll on) if it does turn out to be an issue

Yes, we'll be putting in a switch that allows us to turn ATRAC on and off. Note that it automatically disables at 3000 RPMs regardless.

Disable VSC, TRAC, and ABS without damaging factory wiring - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corey Young (Post 43977424)
Looks good.

Maybe I missed it but when will it be race ready?

Aiming for testing to start after Thanksgiving, mid-Dec as a back-up. The timeline is touch-and-go given 4-5 critical parts are in "prototype" stage, but I trust my team - they are the best in the business.

bark beetle 07-19-2018 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43974488)
We've thought about the Tundra 9" diff for a while now. I just wonder how much stronger it'd be and if we can even fit it.



And remember we're running a ARBs front and rear. We're just trying to keep ATRAC so we can save the ARB for only when we need it to help keep wear and tear down on the front diff.



And I'm pretty certain there won't be much mud at JV in Feb. :)


The first time I went to KOH it rained/snowed a lot one of the days and those dry lake beds are not always dry. It can be a perfect warm sunny day or it can snow, in the same week. Not saying you will end up in quicksand like I did, that was special.

I have never raced in KOH but I have a little desert racing experience and driven more than 10,000 miles on surfaces other than asphalt (conservative estimate from more than 18 years of at least one ~1000 mi trip per year) in many different trucks. All of them that had ABS ended up with a delete mod because it has an extremely negative affect on stopping distance on any surface that isn’t asphalt. Your precious ATRAC will not work if the ABS isn’t working and the ABS will cause you to smash into something you do not want to hit when you drive at race speeds. Even Ford recognizes that ABS must be desensitized on dirt and several modes on my Gen 2 Raptor significantly reduced ABS function, but personally it still had a little too much intrusion, no matter which mode it was in. I don’t know who your experts are but given the information you are relaying about their advice, I would pass on any of related to computer controlled brakes.

I fully understand that an open diff is much easier on the drivetrain from personal experience. You want to race KOH, I have never observed terrain that is harder on equipment, it grinds holes in differentials! The ARB is the best choice you could make because it is open or locked. Lock it when you need real 4 wheel drive open when you don’t. 2-1/2 wheel drive from brake drag might help a little in a few situations but it is not worth keeping ABS to have it.

I sure would love to see some actual build tec on this thread will pictures, as I am rather fond of Toyotas.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

bark beetle 07-19-2018 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43977472)
Great discussions. Gonna keep the responses short:



I've personally never driven the Hammers trails. Our plan is to be on site in late Nov, Dec, and early Jan to Test, Tune, and Revise. Marlin and RockSolidToys have lined up a professional tuner to be there with us. And I'll have a long time KOH veteran there with us to drive the trails and portions of the course to "show us the ropes". He'll also be driving the rig himself to put it through it's paces. More to come on this later...



Yeah, this wouldn't work. When I drive the vehicle to CA in Aug, it'll stay there through KOH. I travel a ton for work, so I'll be using points to fly back and forth. I can work from anywhere, so I'll be there for days/weeks at a time, if needed. But a lot will of fab work and testing happen to the rig while I'm not there under the team's supervision.



Great advice as always. The bypasses were huge for 4600 last year.



Trying to keep ATRAC is a recommendation our team received from ~5 KOH/Offroad Experts. If it doesn't work - it was worth a try and we'll turn it off with the flip of a switch (see below).



Yes, we'll be putting in a switch that allows us to turn ATRAC on and off. Note that it automatically disables at 3000 RPMs regardless.

Disable VSC, TRAC, and ABS without damaging factory wiring - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum



Aiming for testing to start after Thanksgiving, mid-Dec as a back-up. The timeline is touch-and-go given 4-5 critical parts are in "prototype" stage, but I trust my team - they are the best in the business.



I reviewed that thread and confirmed my suspicions, you have to cycle the vehicle power to reset the system once you turn your switch on to disable the nannies and then want them back. Exactly what I had to do on my Tundra, except I wasn’t in a race so cycling the ignition didn’t matter if I wanted computer controlled brake drag.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

gregj50 07-19-2018 10:50 PM

In/

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ac573ca7c3.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c284195638.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Provience 07-19-2018 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregj50 (Post 43978145)
In/



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

fuck off and die spammer :spam:

Charles4x4 07-20-2018 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bark beetle (Post 43977936)
I reviewed that thread and confirmed my suspicions, you have to cycle the vehicle power to reset the system once you turn your switch on to disable the nannies and then want them back. Exactly what I had to do on my Tundra, except I wasn’t in a race so cycling the ignition didn’t matter if I wanted computer controlled brake drag.

Yeah, I saw that too. Checking to see if there is a way around it...

Charles4x4 07-20-2018 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bark beetle (Post 43977912)
Your precious ATRAC will not work if the ABS isn’t working and the ABS will cause you to smash into something you do not want to hit when you drive at race speeds.

Yes, the plan is to disable VSC and TRAC, but have ATRAC selectable. Essentially tricking the vehicle to think ABS is still there so we can use ATRAC on demand. If this is impossible, ATRAC will be scrapped immediately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bark beetle (Post 43977912)
The ARB is the best choice you could make because it is open or locked. Lock it when you need real 4 wheel drive open when you don’t.

Agreed - ARB F/R is locked in.

Charles4x4 07-20-2018 08:50 AM

Took measurements of the cargo area stripped down for the fuel cell and spare tire last night. I'm thinking fuel cell on the platform just behind the rear seats today (removed for KOH) and spare standing straight up or slanted 45 deg toward the front over the rear portion of the cell.

The fuel cell area behind the seats is 42 W x 26 D.

The spare tire area behind the cell before the liftgate is 58 W x 14 D

Max vertical height 39" in center, min right at Liftgate 35.5" - will likely gain another 1" with full teardown.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...02&oe=5BE76E6E

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a9&oe=5BD27E0F

We'll be using Alltech baffles - no foam. Researching fuel cells later today.

Charles4x4 07-20-2018 11:53 AM

Haven't had a ton of time to search, but there seem to be really cheap and really expensive fuel cells. Jaz Pro Sport II seems to be right in the middle with good reviews.

Wide & Short 22 Gal (34-1/2"L, 18-3/4"W, 10-1/2"H):
https://www.jegs.com/i/JAZ/547/280-1...hoCCYYQAvD_BwE

Wide & Short 32 Gal (34"L, 17-3/8"W, 14-3/8"H):
https://www.jegs.com/i/JAZ/547/280-0...RoCJiUQAvD_BwE

I can fit either and Artec makes a nice mount for both.

I can see the need for a 32 Gal cell with a blown LS that gets 3-4 MPG. But we're using a slightly modified 4.7L Toyota V8.

- Is the extra capacity of the 32 Gal needed and worth the extra weight?
- Is there high probability that I'm going to need more than 22 Gal between pits at KOH or other Ultra4 races, Mint 400, or even Baja if that dream ever comes true?

hurleygo3 07-20-2018 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43979112)
Haven't had a ton of time to search, but there seem to be really cheap and really expensive fuel cells. Jaz Pro Sport II seems to be right in the middle with good reviews.

Wide & Short 22 Gal (34-1/2"L, 18-3/4"W, 10-1/2"H):
https://www.kartek.com/parts/jaz-pro...4w-10-12h.html

Wide & Short 32 Gal (34"L, 17-3/8"W, 14-3/8"H):
https://www.kartek.com/parts/jaz-pro...8w-14-38h.html

I can fit either and Artec makes a nice mount for both.

I can see the need for a 32 Gal cell with a blown LS that gets 3-4 MPG. But we're using a slightly modified 4.7L Toyota V8.

- Is the extra capacity of the 32 Gal needed and worth the extra weight?
- Is there high probability that I'm going to need more than 22 Gal between pits at KOH or other Ultra4 races, Mint 400, or even Baja if that dream ever comes true?

Baffles will chew up the inside of the JAZ cells and plug filters. Baffles don't break down like foam. But still have their issues. You have to make sure you pack the cell full of baffles, and make sure if you are running internal pumps to protect the wires from the baffles.

Beat95YJ 07-20-2018 12:01 PM

How many mpg do you think you are going to get at race pace? How many miles do you want to be able to go between fill ups?

For baja, I would get the 32. Not as sure about koh.

Charles4x4 07-20-2018 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 43979118)
Baffles will chew up the inside of the JAZ cells and plug filters. Baffles don't break down like foam. But still have their issues. You have to make sure you pack the cell full of baffles, and make sure if you are running internal pumps to protect the wires from the baffles.

I'd be packing in 2-3 sets of these:
No2Foam – Just say NO 2 Foam

Good advice on the pumps and wiring.

Charles4x4 07-20-2018 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43979134)
How many mpg do you think you are going to get at race pace? How many miles do you want to be able to go between fill ups?

For baja, I would get the 32. Not as sure about koh.

Only a guess at this point. Stock 2016 V8 MPG is 17/20. Cut that in half for race conditions and power modifications we've done. Maybe 8-10 MPG. 5 MPG worst case scenario.

- 10 MPG and 22 Gal = 220 Miles
- 5 MPG and 22 Gal = 110 Miles

- 10 MPG and 32 Gal = 320 Miles
- 5 MPG and 32 Gal = 160 Miles

2018 KOH Total Distance:
4400 = 202 Miles
4500 / 4800 = 136 Miles
4600 = 124 Miles (us)

Given the Main and Remote Pits - Even at 5 MPG I don't see how I need more than a 22 Gal cell right? What am I missing?

If I ever get to race it at Baja, that's a great excuse to upgrade to 32 Gal.

hurleygo3 07-20-2018 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43979184)
Only a guess at this point. Stock 2016 V8 MPG is 17/20. Cut that in half for race conditions and power modifications we've done. Maybe 8-10 MPG. 5 MPG worst case scenario.

- 10 MPG and 22 Gal = 220 Miles
- 5 MPG and 22 Gal = 110 Miles

- 10 MPG and 32 Gal = 320 Miles
- 5 MPG and 32 Gal = 160 Miles

2018 KOH Total Distance:
4400 = 202 Miles
4500 / 4800 = 136 Miles
4600 = 124 Miles (us)

Given the Main and Remote Pits - Even at 5 MPG I don't see how I need more than a 22 Gal cell right? What am I missing?

If I ever get to race it at Baja, that's a great excuse to upgrade to 32 Gal.

I raced this year with a 12 gallon cell. 22 gal with your motor setup will be fine.

damnthemansam 07-22-2018 01:50 AM

Do us all a favor and go find a dirt road and beat the piss out of your truck. Right now. Go find a beach, dunes, ash, whatever and beat the poop out of it, take it on a trail, some rocks, loose gravel hill climbs, and beat the snot out of it. You will find out very quickly that the traction control and abs is this truck is a joke, ESPECIALLY with 35” tires. Ask me how I know.

Please tell me! How do you know??

Increasing the rolling diameter without reconfiguring your abs/wheel speed makes taking a sharp turn ON DRY PAVEMENT activate the abs. The abs in this car is the worst STREET CAR ABS IVE SEEN ON A MODERN VEHICLE. It does not let you slow wheel speed on loose surfaces, it does not let you steer with your right foot. It makes crude, time consuming calculations, based (now with 35s) on false information to overcome a traction scenario it wasn’t designed for. Oh yeah and there’s this neat thing Toyota does where if your throttle down for a few seconds and the truck doesn’t think you’re moving or that you’re spinning, it’ll shut the throttle until you remove and reapply your foot.

This is a race car. Have you ever driven a race car? Do any of them have traction aides? Of course they do! Because they are engineered and tested and developed specifically for that application and often reconfigured from driver/testing input, and also almost always adjustable so that if it’s a little intrusive you can turn it down, or if it makes you feel safe and comfortable (the slowest way around a race track), you turn it up. I’ve met drivers so good they change traction control at speed for specific corners (mind you I come from sports car racing).

I don’t care about your deadline, social media, sponsors, t shirts, planned Gatorade stops or anything else relating to this build. But I can tell you with a degree of certainty that if you don’t test this truck from now until race day and work the bugs out every step of the way (read ATRAC!!!), you will fail miserably. And maybe that means you almost finish the race, maybe that means you were so close, but when you set off from the starting line and that first thing breaks or that first bug rears it’s head, you’re gonna be pissed.

ATRAC may shut off above 3000, but you won’t be up there constantly, and when the rpms drop, here comes your old friend ATRAC. I’ve been in the sand, I’ve been in the snow, I’ve been in high wheel spin circumstances. DONT FUCKING USE ATRAC. I’ve read this whole thread and it’s clear you will rip it out if it doesn’t work, but that plays to a bigger meaning. You could find out today that it won’t work. You could find out tomorrow that lowering the seat is a must for your helmet, and that the fuel mileage is fucked when you put your nifty maf tricker in.

Don’t mean to be mean but holy hell, go testing.

yotota 07-22-2018 10:55 AM

OP - what's your experience building real 4x4s, wheeling actual technical rock trails, and driving in the desert at attack speeds?

Yes, we're being blunt with you. This isn't toyota4runner.circlejerk where there are 20+ page threads on "plastidip mods" and "cupholder mods" and "ATRAC switch mods" (protip - you splice in one switch on one signal wire to fault the system). You're getting real advice in here based on real experience with these trucks, and real advice from drivers who have actually raced KOH.

Then you're getting defensive and ignoring almost all of that advice. I'm not sure why.

cryptic toy 07-22-2018 01:39 PM

[QUOTE I'm not sure why.[/QUOTE]

Because he is really building the FIBERGLASS VILLAGE MALL CRAWLING QUEEN OF THE MALLET 2019 4 RUNNER. All I got for today! OP welcome to pirate:flipoff2:

Charles4x4 07-23-2018 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 43979274)
I raced this year with a 12 gallon cell. 22 gal with your motor setup will be fine.

22 Gal cell ordered! Hurley and other racers, how many spares do you take to KOH? 3, 4, or more?

Charles4x4 07-23-2018 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damnthemansam (Post 43981212)
I’ve read this whole thread and it’s clear you will rip it out if it doesn’t work, but that plays to a bigger meaning. You could find out today that it won’t work. You could find out tomorrow that lowering the seat is a must for your helmet, and that the fuel mileage is fucked when you put your nifty maf tricker in.

Don’t mean to be mean but holy hell, go testing.

Love your passion. I'd have the ABS Off switch installed as we speak, but I ran out of electrical connectors. By this time next week, I'll have two switches that:

1) Turn ABS (and ATRAC, VSC, TRAC) All Off
2) Turn VSC and TRAC OFF + ATRAC On

Once I get the seats and fuel cell installed, I'll then test both and determine what situation ATRAC does well in, if any. If none, ABS (and everything else) will be switched off permanently.

Note the URD MAF Calibrator increases power and efficiency, helps with a quicker throttle response, and most 4Runners have actually seen increased MPG. I'll be testing this too - it was completed last Friday and should today.

hurleygo3 07-23-2018 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43982610)
22 Gal cell ordered! Hurley and other racers, how many spares do you take to KOH? 3, 4, or more?

This year having just finished the car before the race and being totally broke. I had zero spare parts. :D

Everyone is different. But I prefer to build the car right and not have to have a bunch of spares. I carry a u-joint and limited tools in the car. I keep a tire, battery, and alternator in the pits with fluids and other hose ends and hoses. You're not going to have time to make major repairs and still finish the race.

Charles4x4 07-23-2018 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 43982794)
This year having just finished the car before the race and being totally broke. I had zero spare parts. :D

Everyone is different. But I prefer to build the car right and not have to have a bunch of spares. I carry a u-joint and limited tools in the car. I keep a tire, battery, and alternator in the pits with fluids and other hose ends and hoses. You're not going to have time to make major repairs and still finish the race.

Thanks. I was thinking driveshafts, alternator, starter, spare tire, fluids, belts, hoses, etc in the car. Battery, fuel, etc in the pits.

How many spare tires do you bring in total (not counting the 4 on the vehicle)? 3, 4, or More?

hurleygo3 07-23-2018 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43982804)
Thanks. I was thinking driveshafts, alternator, starter, spare tire, fluids, belts, hoses, etc in the car. Battery, fuel, etc in the pits.

How many spare tires do you bring in total (not counting the 4 on the vehicle)? 3, 4, or More?

One in each pit. But a lot of guys kill tires and need more.

Charles4x4 07-23-2018 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 43982830)
One in each pit. But a lot of guys kill tires and need more.

Perfect - thank you!

reklund5 07-23-2018 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43982620)
Love your passion. I'd have the ABS Off switch installed as we speak, but I ran out of electrical connectors. By this time next week, I'll have two switches that:

1) Turn ABS (and ATRAC, VSC, TRAC) All Off
2) Turn VSC and TRAC OFF + ATRAC On

Once I get the seats and fuel cell installed, I'll then test both and determine what situation ATRAC does well in, if any. If none, ABS (and everything else) will be switched off permanently.

Note the URD MAF Calibrator increases power and efficiency, helps with a quicker throttle response, and most 4Runners have actually seen increased MPG. I'll be testing this too - it was completed last Friday and should today.


I can say with confidence that you want to completely disable both those systems. The ATRAC was NOT designed for extended use- the actuator will overheat and cause problems trying to manage that much wheel slippage. Just disable it completely.

Charles4x4 07-23-2018 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reklund5 (Post 43983136)
I can say with confidence that you want to completely disable both those systems. The ATRAC was NOT designed for extended use- the actuator will overheat and cause problems trying to manage that much wheel slippage. Just disable it completely.

This is exactly where I'm guessing we'll end up!

cryptic toy 07-23-2018 01:01 PM

You had mentioned an alternator and starter for spares. Good idea to have them there , but if there is even a doubt replace them now with new denso units like what is on now. FYI the starter is under the intake. And since you have been messing with the exhaust make sure all your o2 sensor wires are loomed and held back . You will blow the efi fuse and be dead on the coarse from a minor melt.

Charles4x4 07-23-2018 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic toy (Post 43983324)
You had mentioned an alternator and starter for spares. Good idea to have them there , but if there is even a doubt replace them now with new denso units like what is on now. FYI the starter is under the intake. And since you have been messing with the exhaust make sure all your o2 sensor wires are loomed and held back . You will blow the efi fuse and be dead on the coarse from a minor melt.

Great points. The spare parts will be the ones on the 4runner today. I'll be putting new denso (probably rebuilt, not new) Starter, Alternator, etc on before we hit testing. Don't want to put them on too early, or too late.

Just put new O2 sensors in (one blew when I used my impact to get the old Y-Pipe out) and the wires are loomed and held back in OEM position in the metal wire clips. We'll be carrying extra fuses and some basic wiring/connectors with us.

the_white_shadow 07-23-2018 02:49 PM

changing out a starter on the trail or in the pits on the UZ engine is going to bring the suck.

cryptic toy 07-23-2018 05:05 PM

If you plan on rebuilt units than you may as well leave it alone . There are to many variables of fawkery that can take place on rebuilds. Plus you will have a core charge on a rebuild if no core so add that in too. I used to know off the top of my head , but I don't know now what the amperage was on them and one from a lexus may have more amps because of all the bells and whistles they have . One of the 1uz swap threads had some info on it . Another thing is if you do change the starter have a knock sensor pig tail on hand and change that too . It is another thing that could cause a poor finish because you will be in limp mode.

Charles4x4 07-24-2018 01:39 PM

We're excited to announce that Cooper Tire and KMC Wheels have signed up to sponsor this King of the Hammers build.

We'll be running 315/70R17 Cooper Discoverer STT Pros:
http://us.coopertire.com/getmedia/e6...t=546&ext=.png

These will be mounted on 17" KMC XD222 Enduro Beadlock Wheels:
http://wheelimages.kmcwheels.com/ima..._Mach-1000.jpg

With Cooper and KMC both on board, our sponsorship for KOH 2019 is officially full. We'll have more to show on the tires and wheels, and from our other sponsors over the coming months.

Charles4x4 07-24-2018 01:54 PM

Quick Build Update:
- RockSolidToys Rear 4-Link is done and ready to be installed once the front suspension is on
- Currie Rear RockJock 60 is in the middle of being built
- Salvage Doors (4) should be here next week. Evidently they were were stuck in a "rail delay" somewhere between CA and Chicago.
- Salvage Liftgate and Sport Hood will ship out of NY tomorrow.
- Jaz Pro Sport II 22 Gal Fuel cell, Arctec Industries mounts, and Allstar 2.5" filler hose in the mail.
- Still working on Alltec Baffles and plumbing conversion, which I still need to learn a lot about
- AEM Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge, AEM Fuel Pressure Gauge, and URD 170 Deg Thermostat will be installed when URD MAF Calibrator arrives
- PRP Ivan Stewart Pro Seats and Harnesses should be shipped out soon
- Cooper Discoverer STT Pro Tires ordered
- KMC XD222 Enduro Beadlock Wheels will be ordered this week
- ABS (and ATRAC, VSC, and TRAC) Defeat Switch will be finished next week
- Atlas II 3.8 Case and A750F Adapter will likely be ordered next week

The salvage parts arriving next week will literally replace every single removable piece of sheet metal on the 4Runner.

I'm tracking every component of the build in a build-plan and checking things off the list as we go. Still a lot left to do, but having the sponsorship portion of the build completed is a big win!

Charles4x4 07-25-2018 09:33 PM

Today I spent time with our team in CA nailing down a high-level timeline for the build that I wanted to share:

Phase I (May to Early-Sept in AL):
- Engine Upgrades
- Fuel System Install
- Strip Interior, Install Seats, Gauges, Electrical, Blue/Amber Lights, etc
- All body modifications (doors, fenders, liftgate, hood)
- Front Suspension, Rear Suspension, Steering, Axles, Front RCVs, Bumpers/Sliders/Skids all being prototyped and tested in CA

--- 4Runner goes to CA in Mid-Sept ---

Phase II (Mid-Sept to Oct in CA):
- Front Suspension and Steering installed
- Front Axle Built and RCVs installed
- Atlas II installed along with cross member built
- Rear Suspension and Rear Axle installed
- Front/Rear Bumpers, Sliders, and Skid Plates installed
- Roll Cage Installed

Phase III (Nov to Dec at JV):
- First round of On-Site testing in JV
- Fix, Revise, Rebuild
- Test, Fix, Test and Test Some More

Phase IV (Jan in CA):
- Vehicle Wrap Installed
- Final Preparations
- Contingency Time for Whatever Surprises Come

Phase I (Feb 4-8 at JV):
- Pre-Run
- Race

Beat95YJ 07-25-2018 09:56 PM

FYI you should mount the seats to the cage.

gregj50 07-26-2018 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43988354)
Today I spent time with our team in CA nailing down a high-level timeline for the build that I wanted to share:



Phase I (May to Early-Sept in AL):

- Engine Upgrades

- Fuel System Install

- Strip Interior, Install Seats, Gauges, Electrical, Blue/Amber Lights, etc

- All body modifications (doors, fenders, liftgate, hood)

- Front Suspension, Rear Suspension, Steering, Axles, Front RCVs, Bumpers/Sliders/Skids all being prototyped and tested in CA



--- 4Runner goes to CA in Mid-Sept ---



Phase II (Mid-Sept to Oct in CA):

- Front Suspension and Steering installed

- Front Axle Built and RCVs installed

- Atlas II installed along with cross member built

- Rear Suspension and Rear Axle installed

- Front/Rear Bumpers, Sliders, and Skid Plates installed

- Roll Cage Installed



Phase III (Nov to Dec at JV):

- First round of On-Site testing in JV

- Fix, Revise, Rebuild

- Test, Fix, Test and Test Some More



Phase IV (Jan in CA):

- Vehicle Wrap Installed

- Final Preparations

- Contingency Time for Whatever Surprises Come



Phase I (Feb 4-8 at JV):

- Pre-Run

- Race



The lightbar man!!!!!
When’s the lightbar going in?????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

the_white_shadow 07-26-2018 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregj50 (Post 43988564)
The lightbar man!!!!!
When’s the lightbar going in?????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Phase 1 for sure. Thats where all the bolt-on stuff gets installed.

trmartin 07-26-2018 11:23 AM

I've read this thread from start to finish a few times and check back to see the updates. I'm glad to finally see a V8 runner in the race. I've been out there 3x and we built a 4600 1st gen runner and raced it out there 3x. Showing up ready to race is a huge undertaking, Finishing the race is another story. Every year our team gets further but have yet to finish. It's getting very expensive and unless you are a big name, You won't get but so much sponsorship money. This is the most brutal punishment your runner will ever get. Do it right from the get go. There has been a lot of good advice giving, but it seems you only want it if you agree with it. Let me explain.

-Your Atrac thingy, Why even bother with the install, wiring/tricking computer for something that isn't really designed to do what you want it to do?
-you will be in 4WD Hi through the desert sections, front locker off, coming into the rocky sections, turn on ARB. How much simpler does it get?
-Why in the world would you replace doors with salvage doors and ship across country? The runner will be dented up when race is over, just gut and cut your doors. that's money wasted. A Sport Hood? Why? To have a scoop? That will be nice for the dust.
-Lots of high dollar nice gadgets going on this for sure. What's the budget?
-Weight? What's the target weight?
-Cage internal or external?
-you are starting with a great powerplant in a heavy pig. I think I would be figuring out where I could shed weight.
-leaving dash in or gutting it?
-as far as spare tires you asked about, I would have at least 3. 1 mounted, 2 in pits. I would rather have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.
-someone mentioned replacing starter, alt. etc. I agree 100%, but only if you use the factory units not some bullshit reman crap.
-listen to the ones who have raced. Learn from there mistakes.
-I want to see this project finished, and I will be cheering for ya at the starting line.

hodgiemoto 07-26-2018 01:00 PM

Following this with cautious optimism. It would be awesome to see an ifs toyota do really well against all the solid axle jeeps.

Of all the plans I've seen so far no mention of a roll cage. Possibly the most important part?

I just can't imagine relying on some computer crap in a race like this. Spool or detroit in the back and an ARB in front. Done.

Also no mention of what experience the driver and codriver have. Here's hoping there's no delays in the whole master plan cuz man you're pushing it.

That being said I'll be following the build and rooting you on at the race. Best of Luck.

Charles4x4 07-26-2018 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43988384)
FYI you should mount the seats to the cage.

Yes, the mounts will be integrated into the cage when it is built. This is required by KOH rules:

"3) All seats must be securely mounted to frame of vehicle and mounts must be properly reinforced to keep seat from moving in relationship to the frame.
4) Adjustable track-type seat mounts must be securely mounted to frame of vehicle to allow no lateral or vertical movement between seat and frame or mounting track and frame."

Beat95YJ 07-26-2018 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43989932)
Yes, the mounts will be integrated into the cage when it is built. This is required by KOH rules:

"3) All seats must be securely mounted to frame of vehicle and mounts must be properly reinforced to keep seat from moving in relationship to the frame.
4) Adjustable track-type seat mounts must be securely mounted to frame of vehicle to allow no lateral or vertical movement between seat and frame or mounting track and frame."

In that case, don’t even fuck around with the seats until your building the cage.

Charles4x4 07-26-2018 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trmartin (Post 43989146)
I've read this thread from start to finish a few times and check back to see the updates. I'm glad to finally see a V8 runner in the race.

Thanks for the great post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trmartin (Post 43989146)
-Your Atrac thingy, Why even bother with the install, wiring/tricking computer for something that isn't really designed to do what you want it to do?

We're currently working with Currie to widen the rear axle 3" more than we were originally anticipating. This may eliminate ABS for us and ATRAC will be dead. If not, my switch that takes no time to install will eliminate it and people have driven thousands of miles with the switch with no issues - its the easiest and most reliable way to remove ABS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trmartin (Post 43989146)
-you will be in 4WD Hi through the desert sections, front locker off, coming into the rocky sections, turn on ARB. How much simpler does it get?

Exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trmartin (Post 43989146)
-Why in the world would you replace doors with salvage doors and ship across country? The runner will be dented up when race is over, just gut and cut your doors. that's money wasted. A Sport Hood? Why? To have a scoop? That will be nice for the dust.

This is simple. My flawless, complete Limited exterior stuff is worth a lot. Salvage shell parts are cheap. I'd rather put on cheap salvage parts ready to be destroyed and sell the valuable parts so I can buy other stuff for the build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trmartin (Post 43989146)
-Lots of high dollar nice gadgets going on this for sure. What's the budget?

If it wasn't for my ~20 sponsors, we'd already be way over budget. Their support has been HUGE!

Quote:

Originally Posted by trmartin (Post 43989146)
-Weight? What's the target weight?

I don't know. We're going to shed as much weight as possible and see where we end up. Anyone know the base weight of a v8 4Runner so we can see how much we shed when all is said and done?

Quote:

Originally Posted by trmartin (Post 43989146)
-Cage internal or external?

Internal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trmartin (Post 43989146)
-you are starting with a great powerplant in a heavy pig. I think I would be figuring out where I could shed weight.

Yes, that is coming up very soon in the build plan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trmartin (Post 43989146)
-leaving dash in or gutting it?

Leaving. I've see way too many teams strip out tons of electrical to save 5 lbs just to go out of the race due to an electrical issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trmartin (Post 43989146)
-as far as spare tires you asked about, I would have at least 3. 1 mounted, 2 in pits. I would rather have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.

We'll have 1 Mounted + 3 in the pits. Tires are ordered!

Quote:

Originally Posted by trmartin (Post 43989146)
-someone mentioned replacing starter, alt. etc. I agree 100%, but only if you use the factory units not some bullshit reman crap.

I've heard that 3x now - I'm smart enough to listen to sound advice. It'll be new Denso - I'll find a way to squeeze it in the budget in the winter when we replace them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trmartin (Post 43989146)
-listen to the ones who have raced. Learn from there mistakes.
-I want to see this project finished, and I will be cheering for ya at the starting line.

Awesome - if you're at the race in Feb, I'd love to have someone of your experience helping us out as much as possible!

Charles4x4 07-26-2018 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgiemoto (Post 43989352)
Following this with cautious optimism. It would be awesome to see an ifs toyota do really well against all the solid axle jeeps.

Of all the plans I've seen so far no mention of a roll cage. Possibly the most important part?

That being said I'll be following the build and rooting you on at the race. Best of Luck.

A friend of Wyatt Scott - owner of RockSolidToys - will likely be doing the cage for us at the very end. He'll also tie the seats into the cage.

Thanks for the encouragement! I read a post a year or two ago on Pirate where the Toyota Enthusiasts were getting depressed at how much Toyota builds are dropping out of KOH and how Jeeps are taking over. Maybe this build will help turn the tables...

EDIT: Found the post that stuck with me for a long time:
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyo...ss-yota-6.html

"So I checked out the 4600 class before the start of the EMC at KOH. Nothing but Cherokees, grand Cherokees, high dollar wranglers (read Jesse Coombs) and one lonely IFS 1st gen 4runner...
- Looks like the Yotas are getting outgunned by the heeps. There used to be alot more yotas out there. I wonder if people are starting to figure out that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to dump thousands of dollars into a rig to race an event where you literally have a about 2% chance of finishing let alone winning...
- Not much Toyota love out there this year. Hell even the one that killed the 4500 class last year got the LCE 4banger ripped out, an LS dropped in, got painted blue, and DNF'd. At least Marlin is still reppin' with a vender booth...
- Sad times. I think the 4600 class is just going by the wayside. You see the type of build Combs had this year and it's like...why...
- That being said, if I had the base coil front runner/taco sitting around and some support I'd build it and give 'er hell...
- Lots and lots of four-cylinder Toyota’s in Hammertown. They just aren’t racing...
- Yup, there was Yotas everywhere just not on the starting line. There was 15 or 20 heeps lined up so I think the 4600 class is far from dead."

And know that I've still got a few surprises up my sleeves for this build - some I'm sure I'll get backlash over and others that are going to take this to a whole new level.

Charles4x4 07-26-2018 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43989938)
In that case, don’t even fuck around with the seats until your building the cage.

Only reason they are going in right now is logistics. It makes it easier to get everything out to CA in mid-September and I won't have to clog up my team's shops with a bunch of Toyota seats and stuff while it's out there.

Everything but the essentials is coming out now while it's in AL so I can deal with it without burdening someone else.

Wilson 07-26-2018 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43989984)
A friend of Wyatt Scott - owner of RockSolidToys - will likely be doing the cage for us at the very end. He'll also tie the seats into the cage.

Thanks for the encouragement! I read a post a year or two ago on Pirate where the Toyota Enthusiasts were getting depressed at how much Toyota builds are dropping out of KOH and how Jeeps are taking over. Maybe this build will help turn the tables...

EDIT: Found the post that stuck with me for a long time:
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyo...ss-yota-6.html

"So I checked out the 4600 class before the start of the EMC at KOH. Nothing but Cherokees, grand Cherokees, high dollar wranglers (read Jesse Coombs) and one lonely IFS 1st gen 4runner...
- Looks like the Yotas are getting outgunned by the heeps. There used to be alot more yotas out there. I wonder if people are starting to figure out that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to dump thousands of dollars into a rig to race an event where you literally have a about 2% chance of finishing let alone winning...
- Not much Toyota love out there this year. Hell even the one that killed the 4500 class last year got the LCE 4banger ripped out, an LS dropped in, got painted blue, and DNF'd. At least Marlin is still reppin' with a vender booth...
- Sad times. I think the 4600 class is just going by the wayside. You see the type of build Combs had this year and it's like...why...
- That being said, if I had the base coil front runner/taco sitting around and some support I'd build it and give 'er hell...
- Lots and lots of four-cylinder Toyota’s in Hammertown. They just aren’t racing...
- Yup, there was Yotas everywhere just not on the starting line. There was 15 or 20 heeps lined up so I think the 4600 class is far from dead."

And know that I've still got a few surprises up my sleeves for this build - some I'm sure I'll get backlash over and others that are going to take this to a whole new level.

Rustynailjustin has been racing 4600, and done well for years. Percentage-wise toyotas are outnumbered by a fair margin and I would say due to a lack of truly race-ready support (by 4600 standards). Even the 4500 you mentioned, makes no sense on paper. I was glad to see it win, but never would have dumped that amount of money into a 3rz (and I like the 3rz).

I wish you all the best, but believe that at best you will learn some hard lessons, if you make it to the start line.

Charles4x4 07-26-2018 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson (Post 43990020)
Rustynailjustin has been racing 4600, and done well for years. Percentage-wise toyotas are outnumbered by a fair margin and I would say due to a lack of truly race-ready support (by 4600 standards). Even the 4500 you mentioned, makes no sense on paper. I was glad to see it win, but never would have dumped that amount of money into a 3rz (and I like the 3rz).

Yeah, Justin has been a real friend and a mentor to me on this build since the beginning. He has gone out of his way numerous times to give me tips and ideas for the build. He has a 4th gen he wanted to build up just like we are, but is planning on racing the 1st gen again this year instead.

Not afraid to fail...just afraid of not trying.

Wilson 07-26-2018 08:28 PM

Great attitude!

Roc Doc 07-26-2018 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 43988384)
FYI you should mount the seats to the cage.


It's not just your opinion, it's the safest method.

pennsylvaniaboy 07-28-2018 08:03 PM

This is turning out like @thebonds tow rig thread.....

Bones 07-30-2018 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pennsylvaniaboy (Post 43992684)
This is turning out like Bones' tow rig thread.....

Take a week vacation and still zero build progress.

What's this tow rig thread you speak of? I haven't owned a tow rig since 2002

pennsylvaniaboy 07-30-2018 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 43994044)
Take a week vacation and still zero build progress.

What's this tow rig thread you speak of? I haven't owned a tow rig since 2002

my bad, I mean @thebonds? ramp truck dealio.....:homer:

2feathers 07-30-2018 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson (Post 43990020)
Even the 4500 you mentioned, makes no sense on paper. I was glad to see it win, but never would have dumped that amount of money into a 3rz (and I like the 3rz).

Please enlighten me on this quote. what makes no sense? How do you know how much money was invested?

Wilson 07-31-2018 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2feathers (Post 43994646)
Please enlighten me on this quote. what makes no sense? How do you know how much money was invested?

The engine that is in the car now is FAR cheaper to achieve and maintain 400+ hp and torque. I don't really care how much "you" had invested in it, what you did yourself, or what deals you got. It all could have been done for less money on an engine that started with more displacement, and a small weight penalty.

Provience 07-31-2018 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson (Post 43995798)
The engine that is in the car now is FAR cheaper to achieve and maintain 400+ hp and torque. I don't really care how much "you" had invested in it, what you did yourself, or what deals you got. It all could have been done for less money on an engine that started with more displacement, and a small weight penalty.

I don't think it would have had nearly the following though

if everything in racing simply came down to bang for the buck, U4 would look like nascar

hodgiemoto 08-01-2018 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson (Post 43995798)
The engine that is in the car now is FAR cheaper to achieve and maintain 400+ hp and torque. I don't really care how much "you" had invested in it, what you did yourself, or what deals you got. It all could have been done for less money on an engine that started with more displacement, and a small weight penalty.

2feathers was undefeated in what 3 or 4 races.

New guy, new engine-DNF. Watched it die on the bottom of Sledge.

I sure wish 2feathers would have kept that car and kept racing. The coolness factor was off the hook.

Now back to the task at hand...

Wilson 08-01-2018 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 43995964)
I don't think it would have had nearly the following though

if everything in racing simply came down to bang for the buck, U4 would look like nascar

Only toyota guys care, which is a small segment

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgiemoto (Post 43998552)
2feathers was undefeated in what 3 or 4 races.

New guy, new engine-DNF. Watched it die on the bottom of Sledge.

I sure wish 2feathers would have kept that car and kept racing. The coolness factor was off the hook.

Now back to the task at hand...

I don't know, I thought it debuted at koh and was sold by summer? The same happened with the savvy lj that dominated for years. I don't think the new owner has ever podiumed, or how many races he has finished? Point being that team and driver are more important than the parts.

hurleygo3 08-03-2018 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson (Post 43998576)
Only toyota guys care, which is a small segment



I don't know, I thought it debuted at koh and was sold by summer? The same happened with the savvy lj that dominated for years. I don't think the new owner has ever podiumed, or how many races he has finished? Point being that team and driver are more important than the parts.

I'm not a Toyota guy and was more than impressed with that car. Bottom line. That car won every race it entered. 4-4 Including Nationals and KOH. Anyway you look at it. It was a perfect combo. The fool that pulled that motor for an LS can't get it to work for shit. That car pulled on monster LS's on the short courses also. Plus the fact that it was a Toyota motor and Toyota looking truck. Sponsors loved that car.

gregj50 08-03-2018 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44003736)
I'm not a Toyota guy and was more than impressed with that car. Bottom line. That car won every race it entered. 4-4 Including Nationals and KOH. Anyway you look at it. It was a perfect combo. The fool that pulled that motor for an LS can't get it to work for shit. That car pulled on monster LS's on the short courses also. Plus the fact that it was a Toyota motor and Toyota looking truck. Sponsors loved that car.



I’m a Jeep guy!!
I remember them pointing out the leaf sprung Toyota on the livestream at koh.
Few years back!!
Qualifying run, I think??
(Might be the one you guys are talking about)
Anyway.... I thought it was cool as shit!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Charles4x4 08-06-2018 04:37 PM

Quick update:
- First, I was wrong! I installed the ABS Kill Switch and drove all this past week - I thought the 4.7L was fast before. With ABS off, it's a whole new beast.

You all were right! We will be running KOH with ABS Off. I still like the switch so I can have ABS on when I drive to CA in mid-Sept, but once it's in CA, it'll be off full time!

- Salvage parts have started to arrive and the remainder should be here this week (Liftgate will be gutted - glass, motors, electrical, etc will be sold):
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...37&oe=5BCA67A6

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...95&oe=5C0FE851

- PRP seats are here. These will be installed on temp brackets as soon as this weekend for the drive to CA and integrated into the roll-cage in CA:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...cb&oe=5C01337A

- Fuel cell, mount, filler, pump, filters, Alltech baffles etc will all be here this week and I hope to have rough mounting done this coming weekend. Only thing I lack here is the AN fittings and hoses.

- Master Kill Switch from Painless should also be here this week and installed this coming weekend.

- URD MAF Calibrator will be here on Friday and will be installed this coming weekend along with gauges.

- Cooper STT Pros and KMC Enduro Beadlock wheels have all been received and are stored at Marlin Crawler's shops in CA. I'll hopefully have some pics to post soon.

More to come soon!

pitbullcruiser 08-06-2018 04:58 PM

Nice, looks like things are starting to come together!

ROLL TIDE!

Bones 08-07-2018 06:26 AM

So all these parts are being shipped to Alabama, then going to CA for the build?? And you are driving the vehicle there? I am so confused

Chkn 08-07-2018 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44008350)
So all these parts are being shipped to Alabama, then going to CA for the build?? And you are driving the vehicle there? I am so confused

10 pages and I think no one knows what's happening... Shoot it took to page 10 to figure out ABS isn't for racing in KOH :laughing:

Bones 08-07-2018 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chkn (Post 44008582)
10 pages and I think no one knows what's happening... Shoot it took to page 10 to figure out ABS isn't for racing in KOH :laughing:

Glad I am not the only one not getting the point of this "build" thread.

Charles4x4 08-07-2018 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44008350)
So all these parts are being shipped to Alabama, then going to CA for the build?? And you are driving the vehicle there? I am so confused

From the post above that should be helpful:

Phase I (May to Early-Sept in AL):
- Engine Upgrades
- Fuel System Install
- Strip Interior, Install Seats, Gauges, Electrical, Blue/Amber Lights, etc
- All body modifications (4 doors, fenders, liftgate, hood)
- Front Suspension, Rear Suspension, Steering, Axles, Front RCVs, Bumpers/Sliders/Skids all being prototyped and tested in CA

--- 4Runner goes to CA in Mid-Sept ---

Phase II (Mid-Sept to Oct in CA):
- Front Suspension and Steering installed
- Front Axle Built and RCVs installed
- Atlas II installed along with cross member built
- Rear Suspension and Rear Axle installed
- Front/Rear Bumpers, Sliders, and Skid Plates installed
- Roll Cage Installed

Phase III (Nov to Dec at JV):
- First round of On-Site testing in JV
- Fix, Revise, Rebuild
- Test, Fix, Test and Test Some More

Phase IV (Jan in CA):
- Vehicle Wrap Installed
- Final Preparations
- Contingency Time for Whatever Surprises Come

Phase I (Feb 4-8 at JV):
- Pre-Run
- Race

Ghetto Fab. 08-07-2018 11:17 AM

People just like to complain.

This is the most active thread in the toyota section recently though.

Kevin

Bones 08-07-2018 12:11 PM

If not seeing any progress on a 10 page thread is complaining, then yes I am

Charles4x4 08-07-2018 12:29 PM

JAZ Pro Sport II - 22 Gal race fuel cell just arrived from JEGS:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...30&oe=5C117CC0

Slowly running out of space:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...35&oe=5C0B6932

Also got the Painless Master Kill Switch, secondary latches, fuel line adapter for AEM AFR Gauge, and a few other odds and ends today:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a9&oe=5BC8E27C

Charles4x4 08-07-2018 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghetto Fab. (Post 44008818)
People just like to complain.

This is the most active thread in the toyota section recently though.

Kevin

Good to know - thanks Kevin! Any encouragement is welcomed! We've got a ways to go, but a ton has been accomplished. Albeit not in standard "build thread" style, which is throwing a lot of people off.

Hope to have the Atlas II, Adapter, Nitro Front Gears, and Front ARB ordered Today!

cryptic toy 08-07-2018 01:40 PM

I don't remember reading it but you should look into spindle gussets too . Is that your down hill barbie jeep racer hiding under the cell:flipoff2:

Charles4x4 08-07-2018 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic toy (Post 44009012)
I don't remember reading it but you should look into spindle gussets too . Is that your down hill barbie jeep racer hiding under the cell:flipoff2:

Yes, there are some aftermarket spindle gussets we can use if needed, but I'm expecting we'll fab all new spindles with the front suspension - maybe similar to these from Solo Motorsports:
https://www.solomotorsports.com/wp-c...sion-Kit-4.jpg

Here are gussets from Total Chaos:
http://www.chaosfab.com/2003-2009-4R...-Gussets-59698
http://www.chaosfab.com/2003-2009-4R...ssets-59698-SB

My 5 and 2 yr old girls race that pink barbie jeep KOH style around the driveway! Who knows what they'd do if they had the one with 2x voltage!

hurleygo3 08-07-2018 02:07 PM

This is Pirate. Don't let the bitching get to you. Guys will bitch about pretty much anything. There are still a few guys on here that have some good info. The rest just like to bitch and web wheel.

cryptic toy 08-07-2018 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44009044)
This is Pirate. Don't let the bitching get to you. Guys will bitch about pretty much anything. There are still a few guys on here that have some good info. The rest just like to bitch and web wheel.

I totally agree with this ! I will say that I'm not happy with how much I have wheeled my junk ! It is still hooked to a 35 ft mouse infested camper since last labor day , call me pathetic if you want :flipoff2: but I really think some people are not happy in there own life and try to bring others down to there level to feel better!

To the op I really hope you can link live or somewhat feed back leading upto the race and while at the race. That would really redeem this thread keep all the flashy pics for face looser and instafawk and show all the detailed stuff here! Keep on plug in away.

Provience 08-07-2018 10:10 PM

good to see more parts rolling in

Bones 08-08-2018 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44009044)
This is Pirate. Don't let the bitching get to you. Guys will bitch about pretty much anything. There are still a few guys on here that have some good info. The rest just like to bitch and web wheel.

Really? This thread has limited tech and is zero build and is pages long. I am not bitching to bitch, I am bitching because the OP started this huge campaign and has yet to do more than a bolt on exhaust and order some parts. :rolleyes:

Aisin 08-08-2018 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44010040)
Really? This thread has limited tech and is zero build and is pages long. I am not bitching to bitch, I am bitching because the OP started this huge campaign and has yet to do more than a bolt on exhaust and order some parts. :rolleyes:

This right here. With all the bolt ons this thread would be better off in the FJ section. It has just about nothing in common with 79 to 95 Toyotas.

hurleygo3 08-08-2018 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44010040)
Really? This thread has limited tech and is zero build and is pages long. I am not bitching to bitch, I am bitching because the OP started this huge campaign and has yet to do more than a bolt on exhaust and order some parts. :rolleyes:

Yes really. It'd only be 3 pages if you got rid of all the bitching. Best part is. Your last build was a 4runner with a bike rack and tube bumpers. That's a ton of tech. Do you even wheel anymore?

A lot of the reason Pirate has gone down the shitter is cause people are afraid to post. We were all new here at one point. I build a lot shit. But I still wait till I'm a few weeks in before I post. Cause I know guys are going to bitch about updates.

Bones 08-08-2018 09:40 AM

My last build? haha, hardly a build. I have passion for the hobby, but have no desire to sink my $$ into something where any wheeling is a days drive or more. I am no more hardcore than the OP wannbe racer.

BTW, love your builds and your current rig. :beer:

Beat95YJ 08-08-2018 09:42 AM

Is the scoop on that hood functional or cosmetic? Any concern about the extra dust being shoveled into the engine bay if it is functional?

Bones 08-08-2018 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44010346)
Is the scoop on that hood functional or cosmetic? Any concern about the extra dust being shoveled into the engine bay if it is functional?

No it's just there for looks. Airbox is behind the headlight (EDIT: location on V6's, I think the V8 is a bit further back towards the firewall)

hurleygo3 08-08-2018 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44010344)
My last build? haha, hardly a build. I have passion for the hobby, but have no desire to sink my $$ into something where any wheeling is a days drive or more. I am no more hardcore than the OP wannbe racer.

BTW, love your builds and your current rig. :beer:

Just busting your balls:D and thanks. I definitely have my doubts about this build making the start. But I'll give the OP a chance before I start ripping into him.

hodgiemoto 08-08-2018 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44010334)
Yes really. It'd only be 3 pages if you got rid of all the bitching. Best part is. Your last build was a 4runner with a bike rack and tube bumpers. That's a ton of tech. Do you even wheel anymore?

A lot of the reason Pirate has gone down the shitter is cause people are afraid to post. We were all new here at one point. I build a lot shit. But I still wait till I'm a few weeks in before I post. Cause I know guys are going to bitch about updates.

Well said. I really don't know why amybody bitches about anything, I mean really how does this effect your life in hugely negative way. Yes, it's kinda going nowhere fast but hey he's representing Toyota at KOH. It's a huge undertaking no matter how you look at it, especially from a guy on the east coast. Whether he makes to the start line obviously remains to be seen, but he's doing what I would love to be doing and noone else on the Toyota board is doing it. Constructive critisism is always good, and there's lots of good information to be gained by posting up on here. And IF he beats down any heeps in the process that'l be a bonus. Rock on fuckers:flipoff2:

gregj50 08-08-2018 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgiemoto (Post 44010552)
And IF he beats down any heeps in the process that'l be a bonus.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6fe082ef92.gif





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cool Hand Luke 08-09-2018 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44008788)
From the post above that should be helpful:

Phase I (May to Early-Sept in AL):
- Engine Upgrades bolt on intake and exhaust that will need to be removed
- Fuel System Install Bolt in a Fuel Cell because you don't have the AN fittings
- Strip Interior, Install Seats temporarily, only to rip them out again and reset them upon cage install, Gauges, Electrical, Blue/Amber Lights best mod yet, etc
- All body modifications (4 doors, fenders, liftgate, hood) this can be done in about 6 beers, not 10 pages and 4 months
- Front Suspension, Rear Suspension, Steering, Axles, Front RCVs, Bumpers/Sliders/Skids all being prototyped and tested in CA

--- 4Runner goes to CA in Mid-Sept ---


Maaaaaybe a weekend of work that has taken 10 pages and 4-5months? :eek:

I'm no schedule planner but this timeline doesn't seem to help you. Seems like a lot of this stuff is just tinkering around with stuff that is going to have to come back out again anyway :confused:

Not saying it wouldn't be cool to see this out there just saying it's time to kick it into gear if you plan on testing before January.

jetranger 08-09-2018 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44007692)
Quick update:
- First, I was wrong! I installed the ABS Kill Switch and drove all this past week - I thought the 4.7L was fast before. With ABS off, it's a whole new beast.

Curious... how does shutting ABS off make an engine quicker?

(coming from a 4th gen 2UZ 4Runner and 2001 2UZ Tundra owner)

Bones 08-09-2018 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetranger (Post 44011984)
Curious... how does shutting ABS off make an engine quicker?

(coming from a 4th gen 2UZ 4Runner and 2001 2UZ Tundra owner)

Kinda my thoughts as well, but I don't want to the meanie of the thread anymore.

hurleygo3 08-09-2018 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke (Post 44011922)
Maaaaaybe a weekend of work that has taken 10 pages and 4-5months? :eek:

I'm no schedule planner but this timeline doesn't seem to help you. Seems like a lot of this stuff is just tinkering around with stuff that is going to have to come back out again anyway :confused:

Not saying it wouldn't be cool to see this out there just saying it's time to kick it into gear if you plan on testing before January.

Pretty sure this build is going to Ca to be completed. His part in the build is ordering parts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetranger (Post 44011984)
Curious... how does shutting ABS off make an engine quicker?

(coming from a 4th gen 2UZ 4Runner and 2001 2UZ Tundra owner)

All I can think of, is that a lot of traction control systems back the throttle off when they sense a wheel slip.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44012052)
Kinda my thoughts as well, but I don't want to the meanie of the thread anymore.

You can still be the meanie. Wouldn't be Pirate if there weren't any. :D

cryptic toy 08-09-2018 06:10 PM

With out the abs/traction control it is like an old truck when you hit the skinny pedal it goes ,no well maybe oh no we won't just a little bit hard surface let's go!

Charles4x4 08-10-2018 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44009044)
This is Pirate. Don't let the bitching get to you. Guys will bitch about pretty much anything. There are still a few guys on here that have some good info. The rest just like to bitch and web wheel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic toy (Post 44009296)
I totally agree with this ! I will say that I'm not happy with how much I have wheeled my junk ! It is still hooked to a 35 ft mouse infested camper since last labor day , call me pathetic if you want :flipoff2: but I really think some people are not happy in there own life and try to bring others down to there level to feel better!

To the op I really hope you can link live or somewhat feed back leading upto the race and while at the race. That would really redeem this thread keep all the flashy pics for face looser and instafawk and show all the detailed stuff here! Keep on plug in away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 44009766)
good to see more parts rolling in

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44010384)
Just busting your balls:D and thanks. I definitely have my doubts about this build making the start. But I'll give the OP a chance before I start ripping into him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgiemoto (Post 44010552)
Well said. I really don't know why amybody bitches about anything, I mean really how does this effect your life in hugely negative way. Yes, it's kinda going nowhere fast but hey he's representing Toyota at KOH. It's a huge undertaking no matter how you look at it, especially from a guy on the east coast. Whether he makes to the start line obviously remains to be seen, but he's doing what I would love to be doing and noone else on the Toyota board is doing it. Constructive critisism is always good, and there's lots of good information to be gained by posting up on here. And IF he beats down any heeps in the process that'l be a bonus. Rock on fuckers:flipoff2:

Thanks everyone! Really appreciated.

Charles4x4 08-10-2018 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetranger (Post 44011984)
Curious... how does shutting ABS off make an engine quicker?

(coming from a 4th gen 2UZ 4Runner and 2001 2UZ Tundra owner)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44012052)
Kinda my thoughts as well, but I don't want to the meanie of the thread anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic toy (Post 44013266)
With out the abs/traction control it is like an old truck when you hit the skinny pedal it goes ,no well maybe oh no we won't just a little bit hard surface let's go!

This!

I was way underestimating how much ABS controls everything once the skinny pedal is pushed. I was expecting it to corner a little faster, etc. But with ABS off, it's instant throttle response, faster throughout power delivery, and of course can go as fast as you want on corners without holding you back (which can of course be dangerous on the road).

I'm guessing the system holds everything back throughout the power band. For example, when you press the throttle, with ABS on it stalls power and then lets it out more slowly to ensure you don't spin the tires. With it off, it's instantly fast and stays fast - like my old 1st gen Turbo but 100x more.

Charles4x4 08-10-2018 11:46 AM

More stuff that'll go in this weekend. The big stuff is yet to come in CA, but it'll be good to check a ton of stuff off the list this weekend.

To the post above - yes, I still don't have the AN fittings. Hope to get those today or tomorrow so we can close out the fuel system. And I'm still struggling with ways to get the stock sender to work with AllTech baffles - but may give up and plug in a new sender and flip resistance through a converter to work with OEM guage.

1) AllTech - No2Foam - Baffles (enough for a 24gal cell). Thanks to Chris for sponsorsing this build!
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ca&oe=5C023333

2) Harnesses and angle mounts that we'll take to CA:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...72&oe=5BCC696A

3) URD MAF Calibrator (to unlock any lost HP):
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...fe&oe=5BFF56E1

Doug Thorley Headers and Hi-Flow Cats should be done today.

I'd love to dyno it, but don't have the $'s in the budget. My best guess is the 4.7L will be b/w 350-375 HP by the end of the weekend, but that may be overly optimistic. Headers alone are a 30 HP gain.

Charles4x4 08-10-2018 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke (Post 44011922)
Not saying it wouldn't be cool to see this out there just saying it's time to kick it into gear if you plan on testing before January.

I know it hasn't been in typical Pirate style, but a ton of work has been done.

Sponsors landed, parts arriving daily, parts being prototyped in CA, etc. 2/3 of this build will be fabrication (yet to come mostly in CA), but 1/3 has been be sales to sponsors, logistics, parts ordering, finding parts that never showed up, and overall build orchestration which is now mostly done.

Beat95YJ 08-10-2018 11:54 AM

Fwiw, in my experience the 4.7 gets angry and throws lean codes if the exhaust is too free flowing. They do sound mean though. My nephew had to take the performance muffler off his tundra to stop the cel from always being on. You may want to look into tuning.

Charles4x4 08-10-2018 12:15 PM

After a month of tracking these down (railroad delays, lost shipments, delivered to the wrong address, etc), the 4 salvage doors finally arrived just in time for this weekend!

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...25&oe=5BFD273F

Charles4x4 08-10-2018 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44014428)
Fwiw, in my experience the 4.7 gets angry and throws lean codes if the exhaust is too free flowing. They do sound mean though. My nephew had to take the performance muffler off his tundra to stop the cel from always being on. You may want to look into tuning.

Thanks for the advice. So far so good - no CELs after all we've done. If they do eventually pop up, URD and others have options to negate them or extend the sensor out (https://www.amazon.com/Concept-Perfo...70_&dpSrc=srch).

Charles4x4 08-10-2018 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44014456)
After a month of tracking these down (railroad delays, lost shipments, delivered to the wrong address, etc), the 4 salvage doors finally arrived just in time for this weekend!

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...25&oe=5BFD273F

Well, the guy in CA sent me 3rd gen doors on accident. Nice guy - refunded me on the spot. But it’s back to the drawing board on doors.

Tube doors with sheet metal skins are sounding better and better...

KH85 08-10-2018 07:13 PM

Really hope this pans out. Cant help but be quite sceptical with the amount of progress so far, the amount of time left, and that it took like 11 pages and countless advise to realize the ABS/ATRAC wasnt going to work.

All that said though I'm rooting for you, keep at it and get that thing to CA ASAP time is running out!!

Charles4x4 08-10-2018 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KH85 (Post 44014952)
All that said though I'm rooting for you, keep at it and get that thing to CA ASAP time is running out!!

Thanks. Unfortunately the prototyped parts aren't ready in CA yet.

DMG 08-12-2018 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44014428)
Fwiw, in my experience the 4.7 gets angry and throws lean codes if the exhaust is too free flowing. They do sound mean though. My nephew had to take the performance muffler off his tundra to stop the cel from always being on. You may want to look into tuning.

That is what the thing in the picture does.

Cool Hand Luke 08-13-2018 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44014422)
I know it hasn't been in typical Pirate style, but a ton of work has been done.

Sponsors landed, parts arriving daily, parts being prototyped in CA, etc. 2/3 of this build will be fabrication (yet to come mostly in CA), but 1/3 has been be sales to sponsors, logistics, parts ordering, finding parts that never showed up, and overall build orchestration which is now mostly done.

Good stuff! I like your intent as far as the every man style, remaining budget friendly, etc. I would love to see you pull this off, it'd give a young poor kid hope for the future :grinpimp:

I'll be following along. Sponsors, funding, and logistics can really slow down a build. Sounds like you have a lot of the "grunt" work done, now it's time for the fun stuff

Charles4x4 08-13-2018 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMG (Post 44017312)
That is what the thing in the picture does.

Correct :). Unfortunately no-one has a "map" for the 4.7L v8 including URD, so we had to get a Universal and are tuning it with the software and AFR Gauge just installed.

Charles4x4 08-13-2018 08:49 AM

*Had to cut this post in two to get it to work*
We had a huge push this past weekend. Six friends came over to lend a hand. Everyone was exhausted by the end.

1) Exterior tear-down complete:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...3e&oe=5BF15ADB

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d0&oe=5BF1458A

2) Interior tear-down complete (and rear seats temporarily reinstalled until the drive to CA):
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...9e&oe=5C1398FD

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ef&oe=5C0DDA05

3) Fiberwerx Fenders and Salvage Hood Installed:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...43&oe=5C0F7337

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e9&oe=5C12B821

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...3b&oe=5C11450B

4) Salvage Rear Lift Gate installed (we had to tweak it back into place due to a prior roll-over):
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b7&oe=5C0F62DA

5) Fuel/Air Ratio Gauge Installed / Fuel Pressure Gauge ready to go, but haven't found a place to tap into the lines just yet as the adapter we purchased didn't fit:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...cd&oe=5C141DED

Charles4x4 08-13-2018 08:49 AM

*Continued*
6) Master Kill Switch Installed, but I still have to find a place for the Big Red Button:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...5a&oe=5C11AA0C

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...51&oe=5C10BC0D

7) URD MAF Calibrator Installed, but I haven't tuned it with the provided software yet:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a2&oe=5BC6BF37

8) Drivers Seat Installed on temporary brackets (hopefully we'll keep the slider somehow - it's nice to be able to adjust the seat). Passenger bracket was missing in the shipment, so it'll probably be here in a week.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...15&oe=5C09A760

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f0&oe=5BF67109

9) Fuel skid removed, Fuel cell mount holes drilled and Artech mount installed. Still need fuel line adapters before I can actually mount it and I need to drop the stock tank.

10) Doug Thorley Headers and hi-flow Cats installed late last week (engine video on Instagram and Facebook):
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...97&oe=5C0433B5

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...0c&oe=5BC93724

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...26&oe=5BFAB308

I'm probably forgetting a few things as it was a blur of a weekend. It's nice to finally have the DD done so we could tear into it!

DMG 08-13-2018 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44018202)
Correct :). Unfortunately no-one has a "map" for the 4.7L v8 including URD, so we had to get a Universal and are tuning it with the software and AFR Gauge just installed.

I was just discussing this with Gadget via email. I have a 4.7 Tundra and Land Cruiser that I would like to install his AFM tuner on.



Did you install a wide band O2 for the AFR gauge?

Charles4x4 08-13-2018 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMG (Post 44018210)
I was just discussing this with Gadget via email. I have a 4.7 Tundra and Land Cruiser that I would like to install his AFM tuner on.

Yes, fingers crossed it works. I've never tuned a vehicle myself, so let's hope Gadget's software is straight forward. Probably won't have time to touch it until later this week.

Charles4x4 08-13-2018 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke (Post 44018114)
Sponsors, funding, and logistics can really slow down a build. Sounds like you have a lot of the "grunt" work done, now it's time for the fun stuff

It's crazy how much time the "grunt" work takes - so far it's been the hardest part of the build. It was nice to actually get some stuff done with our hands this past weekend.

Unfortunately back on the hunt this morning for salvage doors and trying to get my order for Atlas II and Front Gears/Lockers done this morning!

friggnxj 08-13-2018 06:31 PM

As one of the few members on here that have raced in KOH, I applaud you for throwing your hat into the ring. With that said, I think you may need to check your priorities. Get the your big components (shocks, fuel cell, seats) and get to work on that cage. A lot of what I'm seeing is going to have to be reworked once the cage is in place.

That kill switch looks like an e-stop switch and has no place on a race car. BUY a marine battery switch, mount it on the dash and call it good.

Again, I understand that lining up sponsors and ordering parts can take time, but time is ticking, and you have a long way to go.

I work right down the street from Marlin, maybe I'll swing by one day and check it out.

Best of luck,

Jesse
4819

DMG 08-13-2018 08:37 PM

Where did you install the wideband O2 for the afr gauge?

the_white_shadow 08-13-2018 11:35 PM

Those fiberglass fenders and ricer headlights are ugly as sin. If youre going to represent us toyota guys, at least make it look clean on the starting line.

friggnxj 08-13-2018 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_white_shadow (Post 44019576)
Those fiberglass fenders and ricer headlights are ugly as sin. If youre going to represent us toyota guys, at least make it look clean on the starting line.

Mine looks beat to shit. I thought that's how Toyotas are supposed to look?:flipoff2:

the_white_shadow 08-14-2018 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by friggnxj (Post 44019586)
Mine looks beat to shit. I thought that's how Toyotas are supposed to look?:flipoff2:

Yep. If his looked beat to shit, that would be one thing. But he is racing to the mall at this point.

Want to build be a supercharger for my 1uz? :D:D

matzell 08-14-2018 06:48 AM

Whatever kill switch you use, mount it so both driver and co driver can reach it and someone outside the car can reach in and turn it off. think more upper dash area. Also make sure you can reach it fully strapped in the seat. You will be surprised how little you can move in a 5 point harness.

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by friggnxj (Post 44019184)
As one of the few members on here that have raced in KOH, I applaud you for throwing your hat into the ring. With that said, I think you may need to check your priorities. Get the your big components (shocks, fuel cell, seats) and get to work on that cage. A lot of what I'm seeing is going to have to be reworked once the cage is in place.

That kill switch looks like an e-stop switch and has no place on a race car. BUY a marine battery switch, mount it on the dash and call it good.

Again, I understand that lining up sponsors and ordering parts can take time, but time is ticking, and you have a long way to go.

I work right down the street from Marlin, maybe I'll swing by one day and check it out.

Best of luck,

Jesse
4819

Thanks Jesse - definitely check it out while it's at Marlin's shop! See below for an update on the master kill switch.

The cage will be done after the suspension is setup.

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMG (Post 44019374)
Where did you install the wideband O2 for the afr gauge?

The URD Y-Pipe has an extra bung just after the cat (not ideal, but it is what it is and URD said it'd be fine).

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 08:57 AM

Master Kill Switch mounted:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...99&oe=5C0D6F9C

The Kill Switch has been a learning experience. The kit I have kills the battery, but the alternator keeps going.

Their description:
"Our Master Disconnect kit with Emergency Push Button is perfect for race applications as it allows you to install a large push button in easy reach if you need to shut down your vehicle's electrical system in a hurry. Kit comes complete with one 250 AMP solenoid, one Emergency Push Button, wire, mounting hardware and connectors."

Per Painless, I have to either run the kit I have now through a HD disconnect:
Master Disconnect Switch With Mounting PanelDetails | Painless Performance

Or run a second Alternator Kill Switch:
High Amp Alternator Shutdown RelayDetails | Painless Performance

The Alternator kill switch keeps everything in the engine bay and I won't have to run tons of Starter and + Batter cables into the cab, so I'm leaning that way.

Beat95YJ 08-14-2018 09:04 AM

Can you reach that from the drivers seat while in harness? Are you 9 feet tall?

IMO Controls, switches, radios should all be installed after the cage and the seats are mounted to make sure that you can reach them while the harnessed.

Beat95YJ 08-14-2018 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44019980)
The cage will be done after the suspension is setup.

If you have the option to change this order, I would. The cage becomes the chassis of your car and you will want to tie your shocks and suspension into it in a clean manner. The cage should be the first thing you do. Everything else comes after.

hurleygo3 08-14-2018 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_white_shadow (Post 44019576)
If youre going to represent us toyota guys, at least make it look clean on the starting line.

This was the best shit I've read in a long time:D If he truly wanted to represent the Toyota guys. He'd be rolling up to the start line with every possible piece of sheet metal dented and 2 different color fenders.

SLOWPOKE693 08-14-2018 09:49 AM

I hate to say this but, at this point I see a big fail coming. Even if you do manage to get a truck that passes tech to the line, it's not going to make it very far before you find the first issue that stops you dead in your tracks. You really need to stop and listen to the advice you are being given in this thread. These guys know WTF they are talking about and are being extremely polite, for being Pirate, to help you out.


The fact that you are leaving the dash and all the stuff behind it in tact, bought a seat bracket to "temporarily" mount the race seat for the drive to Cali, mounting the fucking fuel cell to sheetmetal and mounting the suspension BEFORE the cage goes in, put on (sure hope those were completely free!!!) the gay as two dudes fucking fiberglass fenders, that will not last 5 min at KOH, and light bar tell me everything I need to know about how this is going to turn out.

You should start on the sponsor apology letters now. Your going to be needing them.


:shaking:

Beat95YJ 08-14-2018 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44020086)
This was the best shit I've read in a long time:D If he truly wanted to represent the Toyota guys. He'd be rolling up to the start line with every possible piece of sheet metal dented and 2 different color fenders.

Body parts would just be missing, not different colors. Do you really think a Toyota guy is going to put forth the effort to find a replacement part? They’ll just let it fall off and say it was never there.

Josh40601 08-14-2018 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44020010)
If you have the option to change this order, I would. The cage becomes the chassis of your car and you will want to tie your shocks and suspension into it in a clean manner. The cage should be the first thing you do. Everything else comes after.

So much this. I did the same thing you are talking about doing, and have been fighting it ever since. I honestly wish I would have started with boxing the frame and caging my truck before I ever did anything else, and now I have to redo a bunch of shit.

Also, the weight of the cage is going to change your suspension. Even with the lightened doors and interior, etc, it is still going to be heavy. I think you have to run 2" tubing, which takes up a lot of room. I'm sure you are doing what you can in AL before shipping it off, but like a lot of people on here have been saying, get the cage work done ASAP. Then the suspension.

Really want to see this thing succeed, and I'm sure the sponsors do too. 25 weeks to go...

friggnxj 08-14-2018 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44020086)
This was the best shit I've read in a long time:D If he truly wanted to represent the Toyota guys. He'd be rolling up to the start line with every possible piece of sheet metal dented and 2 different color fenders.

This is the funniest thing I have read in a long time. You owe me a keyboard:D

cryptic toy 08-14-2018 10:09 AM

Plus the cage adds weight, that will change the final tune on shocks /springs . Unless you know how much tubing you are going to use and compensate for it . Another thing is if you do the cage first you will have a better idea for mounting points and place to locate things . Example would be mounting rear coilovers with a cross brace and possible mount for the spare tires. Maybe a tabbed uereathane bush mounted rear bumper so it's replaceable . And add something to the lower control arm mount back up to frame to stiffen the rail up where there ment to bend in a wheel hit .

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44020010)
If you have the option to change this order, I would. The cage becomes the chassis of your car and you will want to tie your shocks and suspension into it in a clean manner. The cage should be the first thing you do. Everything else comes after.

EDIT: The order above is correct - my understanding of the build steps in CA was off.

And yes, the seats and multiple other items will be pulled out and re-done when the cage goes in - they are simply "temporarily" mounted to get me to CA in a few weeks without having to drag heavy OEM seats with me.

The feedback on this forum has changed our plans a number of times. Keep it coming!

friggnxj 08-14-2018 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh40601 (Post 44020132)
So much this. I did the same thing you are talking about doing, and have been fighting it ever since. I honestly wish I would have started with boxing the frame and caging my truck before I ever did anything else, and now I have to redo a bunch of shit.

Also, the weight of the cage is going to change your suspension. Even with the lightened doors and interior, etc, it is still going to be heavy. I think you have to run 2" tubing, which takes up a lot of room. I'm sure you are doing what you can in AL before shipping it off, but like a lot of people on here have been saying, get the cage work done ASAP. Then the suspension.

Really want to see this thing succeed, and I'm sure the sponsors do too. 25 weeks to go...

I could see just doing the occupant portion of the cage now, and leaving the rest for when the suspension goes in as it can be hard to predetermine where the shocks will fit best.
I would rip the dash out, strip all of the unnecessary wire and components. You need to make this thing light as possible, and easy to service. Trying to get the cage to closely follow the A pillar is going to be a bitch with the stock dash in place.

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh40601 (Post 44020132)
I'm sure you are doing what you can in AL before shipping it off, but like a lot of people on here have been saying, get the cage work done ASAP. Then the suspension.

Really want to see this thing succeed, and I'm sure the sponsors do too. 25 weeks to go...

Thanks guys - just doing the best I can while the truck is in AL. It'll be transformed much more here shortly in CA.

Josh40601 08-14-2018 10:25 AM

good to here bud.

The idea about gutting the dash is also a very good idea. The cage in my ranger is behind the dash and took a stupid amount of time to do. The one in the explorer i had to hack up the dash because I wasn't going through with all that shit again. Only reason I kept the dash in both trucks was for A/C (which neither truck has functional A/C still). Neither of my trucks are race trucks either though

If you are not running A/C in this thing, then I'm with friggnxj, pull that heavy sum bitch out and use tabs with rivnuts and 3/8 steel rod to hold a guage panel and fabricated dashboard to mount switches and gauges. would make it super easy if you start having electrical problems, you can easily use a cordless impact to zip a few allen head machine screws out and with minimal wiring and shit behind the dash, quickly find any problems back there.

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 10:35 AM

20 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44020010)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44019980)
The cage will be done after the suspension is setup.

If you have the option to change this order, I would. The cage becomes the chassis of your car and you will want to tie your shocks and suspension into it in a clean manner. The cage should be the first thing you do. Everything else comes after.

Spoke with Wyatt and I was wrong. Cage will go in Before the suspension - will be the first thing done in CA.

Also recall that per 4600 rules the cage will tie to the frame and suspension will tie into the frame. Suspension will not go up into the body/cab of course.

SLOWPOKE693 08-14-2018 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44020204)
Spoke with Wyatt and I was wrong. Cage will go in Before the suspension - will be the first thing done in CA.

Also recall that per 4600 rules the cage will tie to the frame and suspension will tie into the frame. Suspension will not go up into the body/cab of course.

But you can change shock locations on frame for tire/travel clearance and will be able to add additional bracing off the cage were needed to stiffen the suspension and shock mounting locations.

BTW...... Sorry for the little rant earlier but at this point I'm sticking by what I posted. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE prove me wrong! I really want to see this get finished and at the starting line this year. :flipoff2:

smracing 08-14-2018 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44014416)
More stuff that'll go in this weekend. The big stuff is yet to come in CA, but it'll be good to check a ton of stuff off the list this weekend.

To the post above - yes, I still don't have the AN fittings. Hope to get those today or tomorrow so we can close out the fuel system. And I'm still struggling with ways to get the stock sender to work with AllTech baffles - but may give up and plug in a new sender and flip resistance through a converter to work with OEM guage.

1) AllTech - No2Foam - Baffles (enough for a 24gal cell). Thanks to Chris for sponsorsing this build!
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ca&oe=5C023333

2) Harnesses and angle mounts that we'll take to CA:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...72&oe=5BCC696A

3) URD MAF Calibrator (to unlock any lost HP):
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...fe&oe=5BFF56E1

Doug Thorley Headers and Hi-Flow Cats should be done today.

I'd love to dyno it, but don't have the $'s in the budget. My best guess is the 4.7L will be b/w 350-375 HP by the end of the weekend, but that may be overly optimistic. Headers alone are a 30 HP gain.

More like 200hp to the tires.

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWPOKE693 (Post 44020224)
BTW...... Sorry for the little rant earlier but at this point I'm sticking by what I posted. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE prove me wrong! I really want to see this get finished and at the starting line this year. :flipoff2:

No prob - keep it coming! It's all healthy debate that will ultimately make this vehicle 10x better. If you all were silent, I'd be worried!

Constructive criticism is what we need!

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh40601 (Post 44020182)
If you are not running A/C in this thing, then I'm with friggnxj, pull that heavy sum bitch out and use tabs with rivnuts and 3/8 steel rod to hold a guage panel and fabricated dashboard to mount switches and gauges. would make it super easy if you start having electrical problems, you can easily use a cordless impact to zip a few allen head machine screws out and with minimal wiring and shit behind the dash, quickly find any problems back there.

I'm sure not everyone (or no-one) will agree with me here, but the dash is staying. Has anyone pulled one of these? I pulled it to do all the wiring 5 times over the past few weeks week and it literally weights nothing! It also takes 10-mins to pull max if needed - just a ton of snaps and a few 10mm bolts.

As mentioned a few pages ago, I've read about 10+ builds with electrical issues taking them out of the race after guys riped a ton of wiring out to try and save "weight". I have no interest in riskng an electrical issue that might come back to bit us to save 5-10 lbs on the dash and wiring. It works perfect as is, is compact and low profile, and it keeps everything in a nice, sealed, and orderly fashion.

Also, I might as well get it out of the way, but I'm keeping the head unit in. Not for listening to music while on the trail of course (there are no speakers), but I'm worried about driver visibility on the rock trails while I'm strapped to the back of the seat in the 5-point harness with our long SUV hood. So, I decided to move the rear view camera to the front bumper - possibly in the center or right in line with the Front Drivers tire. I found an option on the head unit that keeps the camera on all the time - so unless it gets destroyed, we'll be able to see our line on a 7" screen as we go and possibly avoid a little spotting.

Let the bashing begin :eek:.

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWPOKE693 (Post 44020224)
But you can change shock locations on frame for tire/travel clearance and will be able to add additional bracing off the cage were needed to stiffen the suspension and shock mounting locations.

Correct. Everything on suspension mounts, shock placement, etc will be 100% custom and we can use the bracing off the cage to provide additional support wherever possible. Just glad I have experts working on this for us.

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWPOKE693 (Post 44020092)
Put on (sure hope those were completely free!!!) the gay as two dudes fucking fiberglass fenders, that will not last 5 min at KOH, and light bar tell me everything I need to know about how this is going to turn out.

And just to set the record straight on a few things:
1) Yes, the fiberglass fenders were sponsored by Fiberwerx. They may get destroyed in 5-mins, but they weight nothing and won't shred a tire, which has happened quite a bit on 4600 rigs with clearanced fenders when the suspension traveled more than expected at race speed. If they are hanging off or gone at the end, so be it. If I'm honest, they're wider than I was expecting...

2) The light bar was on the rig when I purchased it. I haven't touched it. It'll be integrated into the front bumper at some point in case we are still out there at dark. The race light bar (just purchased last night) happens to have two LEDs in the center for rearward facing LEDs in case we are still going at dark. This means $0 spent on lighting for the rig front and rear.

3) Just like the LED, the magnaflow cat-back exhaust and tips were on the rig when I bought it. Good muffler, but it'll be heavily modified at Wyatt's shop when the rear is done and the tips will be the first thing to go. Again, $0 spend on the muffler.

friggnxj 08-14-2018 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44020634)
I'm sure not everyone (or no-one) will agree with me here, but the dash is staying. Has anyone pulled one of these? I pulled it to do all the wiring 5 times over the past few weeks week and it literally weights nothing! It also takes 10-mins to pull max if needed - just a ton of snaps and a few 10mm bolts.

As mentioned a few pages ago, I've read about 10+ builds with electrical issues taking them out of the race after guys riped a ton of wiring out to try and save "weight". I have no interest in riskng an electrical issue that might come back to bit us to save 5-10 lbs on the dash and wiring. It works perfect as is, is compact and low profile, and it keeps everything in a nice, sealed, and orderly fashion.

Also, I might as well get it out of the way, but I'm keeping the head unit in. Not for listening to music while on the trail of course (there are no speakers), but I'm worried about driver visibility on the rock trails while I'm strapped to the back of the seat in the 5-point harness with our long SUV hood. So, I decided to move the rear view camera to the front bumper - possibly in the center or right in line with the Front Drivers tire. I found an option on the head unit that keeps the camera on all the time - so unless it gets destroyed, we'll be able to see our line on a 7" screen as we go and possibly avoid a little spotting.

Let the bashing begin :eek:.

I get that but... once you weld in the door bars on the cage, add a secondary a-pillar(maybe), getting that dash out, let alone working on it in any normal fashion goes out the window; your head will be on the floor, your ass will be by you head rest, and your feet will be dangling precariously in the air somewhere over where the rear seats used to reside.

If keeping the camera is important, as visibility sucks when strapped in while wearing a hans device, just add a cheap amazon unit. Don't limit yourself to the dash just to keep the OEM unit.

Bashing over.

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by friggnxj (Post 44020678)
I get that but... once you weld in the door bars on the cage, add a secondary a-pillar(maybe), getting that dash out, let alone working on it in any normal fashion goes out the window; your head will be on the floor, your ass will be by you head rest, and your feet will be dangling precariously in the air somewhere over where the rear seats used to reside.

If keeping the camera is important, as visibility sucks when strapped in while wearing a hans device, just add a cheap amazon unit. Don't limit yourself to the dash just to keep the OEM unit.

Bashing over.

Points taken. The theory is by not "fixing something that isn't broke", we'll never have to touch the dash in the race. Let's hope this is true.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't think of anything behind the actual dash that could prevent the vehicle from racing. But if we start tearing it out, I am certain our chances of a failure are much greater by modifying all the small Toyota engineered electrical stuff behind the dash that works fine in current form.

I'm trying to keep everything important (including the primary master kill switch components - see pic below) in the engine compartment or inside the kick panels (ECU, etc).

But I'm probably missing something :)

SLOWPOKE693 08-14-2018 04:15 PM

Also, to add to the above post.... The HVAC box, A/C and heater ducts and all the associated components (lines, hoses, compressor, ect) that go with those systems weights a fuck ton. Removing that stuff will help you shed a lot of unneeded weight that will inevitably slow you down and put more stress on the suspension components. In a stock class any weight you can lose for free is a win.

Carry on

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 04:19 PM

Pic of the heart of the Master Kill Switch wired in the engine bay - the plastic red push button simply finalizes the circuit ground once it is pressed. This is the Heavy Duty portion of the Painless system:

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...dc&oe=5BFB5EFF

http://www.painlessperformance.com/Manuals/30205.pdf?

SLOWPOKE693 08-14-2018 04:27 PM

Best way to remove the dash and its unneeded components is by unplugging stuff at the connectors one by one and starting truck after each one to see if check engine light illuminates or if it runs different. If check engine lights up and it's not an engine related code leave parts unplugged/removed. Non engine/trans related codes will not stop your truck from running. It probably has a computer for HVAC, Stereo/navigation, body controls? Ect that can be completely removed with check engine light on and effect nothing running wise.

Also, you can think of it another way.... The more unnecessary wiring and systems you leave in the rig now, the more potential to cause electrical or other issues during the race because they are being subject to conditions they were never ment to be in.

That's my .02

SLOWPOKE693 08-14-2018 04:36 PM

See those butt connectors you used on that solenoid....Fail! And your worried about the dash being an electrical issue. :shaking: ALL electrical connections should be soldered and shrink wrapped so they don't fall apart under race conditions. Cheap crimp connections are garbage. That's race car basics 101.

Also, wire loom or wrap all new wiring and check the factory stuff for places it could potentially chafe over the course of the race. Bouncing wires will stop you dead in your tracks or worse, burn your race rig to the ground.

hurleygo3 08-14-2018 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWPOKE693 (Post 44020724)
See those butt connectors you used on that solenoid....Fail! And your worried about the dash being an electrical issue. :shaking: ALL electrical connections should be soldered and shrink wrapped so they don't fall apart under race conditions. Cheap crimp connections are garbage. That's race car basics 101.

Also, wire loom or wrap all new wiring and check the factory stuff for places it could potentially chafe over the course of the race. Bouncing wires will stop you dead in your tracks or worse, burn your race rig to the ground.

I agree the above connectors are not the best. But a proper crimped wire is better than a soldered wire. Especially for off-road where vibration is an issue. Look at all high trophy truck wiring. They use all crimp connections.

SLOWPOKE693 08-14-2018 05:04 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44020756)
I agree the above connectors are not the best. But a proper crimped wire is better than a soldered wire. Especially for off-road where vibration is an issue. Look at all high trophy truck wiring. They use all crimp connections.

The big dollar TT and race car wiring jobs I have seen all used high end connectors that look like butt connectors but have solder inside and a shrinkwrap coating on the outside. Other than looking like butt connectors they are very different. YFMV

First pic is for ends, and the second is for splices

Beat95YJ 08-14-2018 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44020756)
I agree the above connectors are not the best. But a proper crimped wire is better than a soldered wire. Especially for off-road where vibration is an issue. Look at all high trophy truck wiring. They use all crimp connections.

This is how I always wired stuff. Never used the hard insulated connectors. Crimp terminals w/ heat shrink. Once I bought decent crimpers, I never had an issue.

The terminals shown are junk.

Next question, any plans to relocate battery?

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by friggnxj (Post 44019184)
That kill switch looks like an e-stop switch and has no place on a race car. BUY a marine battery switch, mount it on the dash and call it good.

I never addressed this. The pic above shows the actual HD components in the engine bay for the Painless setup.

In reality, the solenoid in the engine compartment is essentially one of those huge marine style switches. The button as simply the remote control that flips the switch from inside the cab - but allows you to easily mount, wire, and access it.

So it's basically a marine battery switch with a remote control.

Note the marine battery switch alone wouldn't work as it wouldn't kill the alternator. So I have to have this type of setup + the alternator kill solenoid to kill both with one switch per KOH rules:

"8.2.23 ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
KILL SWITCH
a) A brightly colored, highly visible, easily distinguishable, master kill switch must be located in the dashboard area of the vehicle and be clearly labeled. The master kill switch must be able to shut down the entire primary electrical system for the vehicle. The master kill switch must shut down the engine when in the off
position. Winch power supply and low amp draw secondary electrical equipment which requires an uninterrupted power supply may circumvent this switch. It is highly recommended that heavy-duty marine-style battery disconnect switches, capable of carrying total vehicle current load (including winch) be used and wired so that the entire electrical system can be disabled with one switch.
b) Kill switch should be accessible by all occupants in the vehicle."

hurleygo3 08-14-2018 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWPOKE693 (Post 44020768)
The big dollar TT and race car wiring jobs I have seen all used high end connectors that look like butt connectors but have solder inside and a shrinkwrap coating on the outside. Other than looking like butt connectors they are very different. YFMV

First pic is for ends, and the second is for splices

The connecters you posted are good option. I use them at work for wire repairs, just not on my race car. I've talked to a lot of the big names in wiring like Prowire, American and Finshline. They all crimp. Take a look at pretty much any of the top TT's. All crimp and heat shrink. Solder has no flex and can cause the wire to break. You will also never find a spliced connector of any kind on quality wiring job.

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44020770)
Next question, any plans to relocate battery?

I was originally planning to, but it keeps moving down the list of priorities. If we have time in the fall, we'll relocate it to the cargo area. We'll already have the cell and spare mounted back there, so it's getting tight.

Charles4x4 08-14-2018 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44020800)
The connecters you posted are good option. I use them at work for wire repairs, just not on my race car. I've talked to a lot of the big names in wiring like Prowire, American and Finshline. They all crimp. Take a look at pretty much any of the top TT's. All crimp and heat shrink. Solder has no flex and can cause the wire to break. You will also never find a spliced connector of any kind on quality wiring job.

I'll be the first one to admit I stuck at electrical connectors - quality crimping tools make all the difference. I had a friend who is an electrical fanatic do most of the crimping with high-quality tools. You should see his work on the MAF Calibrator.

For the kill switch, we just used the Painless stuff provided, which we should probably swap out to your point. But we did use a high-end crimper for the connections and they are solid - just likely with low-end Painless supplied connectors though.

mufflerbearing 08-14-2018 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44020808)
I'll be the first one to admit I stuck at electrical connectors - quality crimping tools make all the difference. I had a friend who is an electrical fanatic do most of the crimping with high-quality tools. You should see his work on the MAF Calibrator.

For the kill switch, we just used the Painless stuff provided, which we should probably swap out to your point. But we did use a high-end crimper for the connections and they are solid - just likely with low-end Painless supplied connectors though.

Electrical is easy. Connectors suck. Solider anything you can. Dont use butt splices kr scotch locks. Use quality connectors. Cheap ones are junk and break.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

friggnxj 08-14-2018 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_white_shadow (Post 44019588)
Yep. If his looked beat to shit, that would be one thing. But he is racing to the mall at this point.

Want to build be a supercharger for my 1uz? :D:D

It's easy, I'm sure you can do it.

Charles4x4 08-16-2018 07:02 PM

I need some advice on the Master Kill Switch. How are the KOH rigs with only a simple marine kill switch wiring everything to kill both the battery and alternator at once? If I disconnect the battery, the alternator keeps going.

I have this one installed now and it doesn't work:
Remote Disconnect w/Emergency ButtonDetails | Painless Performance
- It doesn't kill the alternator
- And it's now draining the battery even when not-engaged (despite Painless promising me it wouldn't)

I have this one in the box:
High Amp Alternator Shutdown RelayDetails | Painless Performance
- It'll claims it will kill the alternator, but I still have to solve the battery being drained, which means it won't work.

I found this one online:
4430 Master Battery Cut-Off Switch
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...asp?RecID=1464
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/do...ocID=TECH00109

Is the Pagusus Auto Racing switch the solution and I can send all the Painless stuff back? Or is there a simpler solution.

What is everyone else doing to kill both the battery and alternator without draining the battery?

Beat95YJ 08-16-2018 07:20 PM

Not sure, but I really like the way the Pegasus stuff is an actual switch and not off a relay. If shtf I wouldn’t want to depend on a remote control relay.

Charles4x4 08-16-2018 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44024814)
Not sure, but I really like the way the Pegasus stuff is an actual switch and not off a relay. If shtf I wouldn’t want to depend on a remote control relay.

Yep, my remote control attempt is dead. Time suck.

Here's what everyone else is using (in concept):
Master Disconnect Switch With Mounting PanelDetails | Painless Performance

They must be running both the battery and alternator through the same switch? I'm headed out to trace my alternator power and will know soon enough...

friggnxj 08-16-2018 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44024818)
Yep, my remote control attempt is dead. Time suck.

Here's what everyone else is using (in concept):
Master Disconnect Switch With Mounting PanelDetails | Painless Performance

They must be running both the battery and alternator through the same switch? I'm headed out to trace my alternator power and will know soon enough...

This is what I use:. https://www.bluesea.com/products/cat...tches/e-Series

You wire the alternator to the same post as the battery, that way when you switch it to "off"' the engine can no longer run off of just the alternator.

OllieNZ 08-17-2018 01:16 AM

Depends on the type of alternator system. Basic systems will shut off as soon as you lose battery power but more complex ones have an ACU (alternator control unit) that is capable of sustaining power to the field winding in event of loss of battery power. Depending on the system the ACU may be integrated into the alternator or a remote unit.

On the crimping side of things there's nothing wrong with a quality crimp that's been correctly formed with the right tool (this also means stripping the wire to the correct length for the type of crimp in use) In aviation pretty much everything is crimped, PIDG being one of the most common for ring terminal type connections, the only negative is they don't have any form of environmental protection. Also standard heatshrink offers no real environmental protection, water can still capillarise into the joint, you need to used adhesive filled heat shrink for true protection.

SLOWPOKE693 08-17-2018 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OllieNZ (Post 44025206)
Depends on the type of alternator system. Basic systems will shut off as soon as you lose battery power but more complex ones have an ACU (alternator control unit) that is capable of sustaining power to the field winding in event of loss of battery power. Depending on the system the ACU may be integrated into the alternator or a remote unit.

This is a null point (and I have never seen an American car with a charging system of that type) if the switch is wired properly. There would be no way for the power from the alternator to get back to the electrical system to keep the vehicle running once the switch is turned off.

Charles4x4 08-17-2018 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by friggnxj (Post 44025080)
This is what I use:. https://www.bluesea.com/products/cat...tches/e-Series

You wire the alternator to the same post as the battery, that way when you switch it to "off"' the engine can no longer run off of just the alternator.

I'm assuming this one (9002e)?
https://www.bluesea.com/products/900...witch_with_AFD

Description:
e-Series Selector Battery Switch with AFD
9002e
Switches isolated battery banks to all loads or combines battery banks to all loads
Includes AFD (Alternator Field Disconnect)
Make-before-break contact design allows switching between battery banks without power interruption
Ignition protected—safe for installation aboard gasoline powered boats
Case design allows surface or rear panel mounting

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VnQAA...SQ/s-l1600.jpg

Charles4x4 08-17-2018 07:18 AM

Found a few hours last night to remove the Painless kill switch that didn't work and also dropped the stock tank. Within seconds, I realized installing the OEM setup (with upgraded pumps and filter) in the fuel cell wouldn't work as I could never get the seal right (Toyota made it complicated).

So, we need to go with a standard external fuel cell external, EFI based system and I'll just go with an aftermarket sender and gauge. I'll either have to tie it into the stock fuel lines (pic below) or just run it from scratch from the rails or all the way.

Stock Tank:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...45&oe=5BFD4BE0

Stock Lines at Rear Drivers door frame rail:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...06&oe=5C101BE5

Stock Connectors:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e0&oe=5C0BC503

Lots of space now:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...8e&oe=5C136147

There is an access hatch just before where the cell will be that we can use to run the lines through and into the cargo area.

I'll plan to call Aeromotive later today. Suggestions welcome.

Charles4x4 08-17-2018 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OllieNZ (Post 44025206)
Depends on the type of alternator system. Basic systems will shut off as soon as you lose battery power but more complex ones have an ACU (alternator control unit) that is capable of sustaining power to the field winding in event of loss of battery power. Depending on the system the ACU may be integrated into the alternator or a remote unit.

On the crimping side of things there's nothing wrong with a quality crimp that's been correctly formed with the right tool (this also means stripping the wire to the correct length for the type of crimp in use) In aviation pretty much everything is crimped, PIDG being one of the most common for ring terminal type connections, the only negative is they don't have any form of environmental protection. Also standard heatshrink offers no real environmental protection, water can still capillarise into the joint, you need to used adhesive filled heat shrink for true protection.

I'm still learning my obviously "complex" system, but here's what I think is happening:

- Most american cars are:
Power In --> Alternator --> Battery ---> Distribution Block/Fuse Block

- Mines seems to be:
Power In --> Alternator --> Distribution Block/Fuse Block --> Battery

I'm certain mine has an ACU because I can disconnect the battery completely (i.e. literally pull the terminals off) and everything keeps running as if nothing happened.

Per @SLOWPOKE693, to remedy, I'd put:
- Battery Power Out & Alternator Power Out --> Switch --> Everything Else (Starter / Distribution Block/Fuse Block)

I'm assuming the 9002e is the right one?
https://www.bluesea.com/products/900...witch_with_AFD

Battery into Input 1, Alt into Input 2, Output goes back to Battery and Block. Done!

Charles4x4 08-17-2018 08:45 AM

Just purchased the Blue Sea 9002e, a bunch of 2 gauge wire, and a 4-Post Power Distribution block for the "Out".

Wiring will be:
In 1: Battery
In 2: Alternator Power In
Out: Wire that goes to 4-Post Distribution Block. Alternator Power Out, Distribution Block/Fuse Box, and Anything Else connected to the distribution block.

Fingers crossed third time's a charm. Thanks for everyone's help.

Fuel system up next...

Beat95YJ 08-17-2018 09:48 AM

Why are you worried about the fuel system before the cage? Also I would be amazed if you can use the factory fuel lines because they won’t line up with where you want to be.

Charles4x4 08-17-2018 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44025792)
Why are you worried about the fuel system before the cage? Also I would be amazed if you can use the factory fuel lines because they won’t line up with where you want to be.

I was hoping to have the cell hooked up, tested, and functional for the drive to CA. I'll bake in extra length on the fuel lines so the cage fabricator can pull the cell out, place it where he wants it on the cage, and plug the lines back in. At least that was the plan - the AL to CA logistics aren't my favorite part of this build.

I'm working with Aeromotive to integrate their Phantom 200 kit into our factory setup. The factory lines are only run 7-8' at this point, so no big deal if we delete them all together.
https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/produc...h-fuel-system/

Working to figure out what size my OEM lines are now...

cryptic toy 08-17-2018 10:31 AM

Your fuel lines could also interfere with the rear 4-link too. So I wouldn't spend to much thought on them now.

the_white_shadow 08-17-2018 01:11 PM

I understand youre trying to get ahead on a few things, but i dont like to do things twice. Seems like you dont mind that. Just trailer this thing to CA so you can continue to strip out the stuff you dont need. Your priorities seem off.

Charles4x4 08-17-2018 02:11 PM

Okay, I literally spent hours with Aeromotive Tech today (Brett is solid) and here's the initial plan:
- Phantom 200 Stealth EFI Fuel System:
https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/produc...h-fuel-system/
- Use ORB-06 to AN-06 Fittings for Supply and Return
- Run steel braided line from AN-06 to existing Supply and Return hard lines
- Use AN-06 to 6MM / 8MM Female adapters back to OEM Hard Lines along frame

We'll cap the vent on the Phantom (ORB-06 Port Plug) and instead run AN-8 from the fuel cell vent to the OEM charcoal catchment can (which should meets KOH Rules after a lot of routing).

The Phantom will drop in the cell (via 3.25" Hole Saw) and work fine with Alltech baffles. I'll then do a slightly larger hole in the lid of the cell to make sure it doesn't contact when sealed.

I also got a 10" Fuel Level Sender and Ohm converter from Summit that'll hopefully allow us to use our stock gauge (if not, we'll use aftermarket).

If anyone sees any issues with this system, let me know. Aeromotive had never worked on a 4.7L V8, so it took a lot of pictures and hours of diagnosing to figure it all out.

Now I just need to find 6MM and 8MM Female to AN-06 Male adapters...

Charles4x4 08-17-2018 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_white_shadow (Post 44026164)
I understand youre trying to get ahead on a few things, but i dont like to do things twice. Seems like you dont mind that. Just trailer this thing to CA so you can continue to strip out the stuff you dont need. Your priorities seem off.

If I had a way to haul it out there, I would. But I don't - so driving it to CA is my best bet at this point. And if I have to do a few small things twice given the logistics and limitations, so be it. But it certainly isn't ideal, but I'm guessing few things on a KOH build are...

friggnxj 08-17-2018 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44025386)
I'm assuming this one (9002e)?
https://www.bluesea.com/products/900...witch_with_AFD

Description:
e-Series Selector Battery Switch with AFD
9002e
Switches isolated battery banks to all loads or combines battery banks to all loads
Includes AFD (Alternator Field Disconnect)
Make-before-break contact design allows switching between battery banks without power interruption
Ignition protected—safe for installation aboard gasoline powered boats
Case design allows surface or rear panel mounting

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VnQAA...SQ/s-l1600.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44025676)
Just purchased the Blue Sea 9002e, a bunch of 2 gauge wire, and a 4-Post Power Distribution block for the "Out".

Wiring will be:
In 1: Battery
In 2: Alternator Power In
Out: Wire that goes to 4-Post Distribution Block. Alternator Power Out, Distribution Block/Fuse Box, and Anything Else connected to the distribution block.

Fingers crossed third time's a charm. Thanks for everyone's help.

Fuel system up next...

It depends on how you want it set up. In how you described, I am assuming that you are only going to run a single battery. In this configuration, the selector will need to be in the 1&2 to both start the car, and charge the battery. I suggest putting the battery and alternator on the same terminal (pos 1).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44026290)
Okay, I literally spent hours with Aeromotive Tech today (Brett is solid) and here's the initial plan:
- Phantom 200 Stealth EFI Fuel System:
https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/produc...h-fuel-system/
- Use ORB-06 to AN-06 Fittings for Supply and Return
- Run steel braided line from AN-06 to existing Supply and Return hard lines
- Use AN-06 to 6MM / 8MM Female adapters back to OEM Hard Lines along frame

We'll cap the vent on the Phantom (ORB-06 Port Plug) and instead run AN-8 from the fuel cell vent to the OEM charcoal catchment can (which should meets KOH Rules after a lot of routing).

The Phantom will drop in the cell (via 3.25" Hole Saw) and work fine with Alltech baffles. I'll then do a slightly larger hole in the lid of the cell to make sure it doesn't contact when sealed.

I also got a 10" Fuel Level Sender and Ohm converter from Summit that'll hopefully allow us to use our stock gauge (if not, we'll use aftermarket).

If anyone sees any issues with this system, let me know. Aeromotive had never worked on a 4.7L V8, so it took a lot of pictures and hours of diagnosing to figure it all out.

Now I just need to find 6MM and 8MM Female to AN-06 Male adapters...


Seems overly complicated.

Charles4x4 08-17-2018 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by friggnxj (Post 44026356)
Seems overly complicated.

Great, help me simplify it :).

hurleygo3 08-17-2018 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44026448)
For this, looking for the adapters - I found these from Russell:

Russell 640853-6 AN Male to 3/8" SAE Quick-Disconnect Female Push-On EFI Fitting
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1

Russell 640863-6 AN Male to 5/16" SAE Quick-Disconnect Female Push-On EFI Fitting
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1

From my measurements, I think my fuel lines are 5/16" (8MM or 0.3125") and 1/4" (6MM or .25"). Unfortunately no-one makes quick connects for 1/4" fuel line...

I also tried to find AN-6 Male to 1/4" Male Hose Barb and they only have 5/16" and 3/8" hose barbs.

Any ideas for tying AN-6 into what I think are our 5/16" and 1/4" fuel line quick disconnect male ends?

Like the master kill switch, I think I'm over complicating this too... I admitted upfront I've never run fuel lines... And even Aeromotive Tech was struggling to fuse a system into the 4th gen lines.

Fuel Injected - Adapter Fittings - Russell Performance Products
They show a 1/4" But I'd bet you have 5/16"

bark beetle 08-17-2018 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44026296)
If I had a way to haul it out there, I would. But I don't - so driving it to CA is my best bet at this point. And if I have to do a few small things twice given the logistics and limitations, so be it. But it certainly isn't ideal, but I'm guessing few things on a KOH build are...



We have done several Offroad trips where we had to get bikes one direction and ditch the trailer so the trucks could Offroad and u-haul trailers work great. You should have plenty of dealers for one way car trailers at a reasonable expense. Then there are the car transport companies and privateers that can get you 4Runner across the country. You really don’t have time to mess around with doing things the wrong way and then have to fix them in CA.

The structure and suspension have to go first and everything else works around them because they usually have more options for routing than a suspension link or cage pillar.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Beat95YJ 08-17-2018 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44026296)
If I had a way to haul it out there, I would. But I don't - so driving it to CA is my best bet at this point. And if I have to do a few small things twice given the logistics and limitations, so be it. But it certainly isn't ideal, but I'm guessing few things on a KOH build are...

If you have to drive, leave the stock tank for now.

Charles4x4 08-17-2018 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44026888)
If you have to drive, leave the stock tank for now.

I removed it "gently" just in case it has to go back in :).

Charles4x4 08-17-2018 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44026498)
Fuel Injected - Adapter Fittings - Russell Performance Products
They show a 1/4" But I'd bet you have 5/16"

I'm hoping so. I purchased a ton of Russell stuff tonight - some of it for 5/16" lines to 6an. Whatever doesn't work will be shipped back.

the78outlaw 08-19-2018 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bark beetle (Post 44026882)
We have done several Offroad trips where we had to get bikes one direction and ditch the trailer so the trucks could Offroad and u-haul trailers work great. You should have plenty of dealers for one way car trailers at a reasonable expense. Then there are the car transport companies and privateers that can get you 4Runner across the country. You really don’t have time to mess around with doing things the wrong way and then have to fix them in CA.

This. UHaul is everywhere. Or hire an auto transport. Last quote I got was $600 for a Tacoma from Florida to Idaho.

Charles4x4 08-20-2018 02:11 PM

I have to travel a good bit for work this week, but wanted to send out a quick update. Lots of work done this past week:

- Atlas II 3.8 Trail Case and Adapater for A750F ordered and should be in AL in time for me to load it up for the drive to CA. Thanks again to Advance Adapters for their sponsorship on this build!

- East Coast Gear Supply also signed up to sponsor the build. We're getting the Front Nitro 4.56 Gears, Install Kit, and our Front ARB Locker from ECG! The rear Currie RJ60 already has the ARB installed.

- Aermotive is also sponsoring the build - we'll be running their Phantom 200 Kit and they've included various adapters we'll need for AN lines.

- Ordered a ton of parts for the fuel system on Friday - mostly Russell fittings and AN6 lines. Who knows if I got what I'll actually need.

- New "basic" master kill switch also ordered and on it's way that should solve finally our Battery/Alternator problem.

- Classic Instruments Fuel Level Sender and Ohm converter arrived over the weekend. Since no-one has a sender that works with the OEM Toyota gauge, this converter should allow us to make it work:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...c4&oe=5C01EE1C

- Rear LED race light came in from Amazon. Amber and Red with Clear Centers (acts as reverse LED lights). Hope to have time to mount/wire it this week - likely put it on the spoiler and have to double/triple mount it so it doesn't fly off:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...30&oe=5C055525

- My wife and girls were kind enough to take a road trip to TN with me to hunt through a Toyota heavy salvage yard south of Nashville on Saturday. Cool owners from Jordan who had been in the states for 30-yrs - they had a ton of 4th gen doors! The place was a mud pit though. But we found solid doors for an extremely low price. We'll leave the glass in till it gets to CA (in case it rains):
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a7&oe=5BEF3AFB

At this point, all key sponsors are landed and all key purchases have been made for this build. The main things left are electrical (master kill switch, race light, & MAF Calibrator), fuel system (plumbing, fuel pressure gauge, & cell temporary mount), salvage door install with secondary locks, and then the drive out to CA where the real work begins (suspension, steering, cage, armor, axles, t-case, tries/wheels, etc). I may also try to fit in safety nets and latches before the drive over if I have time.

One question:
Rugged Radios has agreed to sponsor us with a discount, but I'm honestly really surprised at how much comms cost, even with the discount. Are there any lower budget solutions out there for Vehicle to Pit/Pit to Vehicle Comms and Driver to Co-Driver Intercom? Similar to what LeadNav is doing for Navigation (as a cheaper Lowrance alternative)?

For example, I've looked at bluetooth motorcycle Driver to Rider devices that could help with comms for $150 or so on Amazon.

Thanks everyone.

Bones 08-20-2018 02:31 PM

Shipping an Atlas from CA to AL only to haul it back to CA??

Charles4x4 08-20-2018 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44030212)
Shipping an Atlas from CA to AL only to haul it back to CA??

Yep. Shipping direct to CA would incur a lot of taxes that I shouldn't have to pay since I'm in AL...

Charles4x4 08-20-2018 03:03 PM

On safety nets, it is my understanding that SFI 27.1 Cert requires:

1) Window nets are required to be constructed either entirely from 1″ Webbing Material, or from Mesh Material with a strip of 1″ Webbing at 8 inch intervals across the length of the net.

2) The net must be secured to the vehicle on the top and bottom by either a Spring Rod or Latch System. This allows for a quick disconnect of the net by the occupants, regardless of the position of the vehicle. For small triangle style nets grommets are recommended.

Question: Is there increased visibility of Mesh with 1" Webbing at 8" intervals? Or does everyone just go with 1" webbing for simplicity?

And what about Spring Rod vs. Latch?
Spring Rod:
https://prpseats.com/wp-content/uplo.../SpringRod.jpg

Latch:
https://www.kartek.com/mm5/graphics/..._1_800x600.jpg

Per the rules:
"Nets attached to door frames are permitted."
-----This is what we'll do.-----

"Nets must be installed so that the occupants can release the netting unassisted and exit the vehicle regardless of the position of the vehicle."

"The net border or edge and the net attachment must be made of materials that are as strong as, or stronger than, the net itself. Net attachments must be at a minimum of every 6 inches. Acceptable attachments include, but are not limited to: steel hose clamps, snaps, lift-a-dot, metal hooks, and steel rods. Nets must be tight so that when subject to a pushing force of approximately 50lbs the net deflects no more than four inches."

Charles4x4 08-21-2018 07:27 AM

A little more progress last night...

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...0e&oe=5BF3B7C0

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...5c&oe=5BEE2EDC

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...61&oe=5BFF5C00

Also got all the door hardware swapped over to the salvage doors so all we have left is to install them.

Charles4x4 08-21-2018 09:00 AM

A few more goodies from our sponsors at East Coast Gear Supply just arrived!

4.56 Front Nitro Gears that to match the rear 4.56 gears in the Currie RJ60:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...bf&oe=5C3AAC78

Front ARB air locker to match the rear ARB in the Currie RJ60:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...7a&oe=5C016B2A

smracing 08-21-2018 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44030242)
On safety nets, it is my understanding that SFI 27.1 Cert requires:

1) Window nets are required to be constructed either entirely from 1″ Webbing Material, or from Mesh Material with a strip of 1″ Webbing at 8 inch intervals across the length of the net.

2) The net must be secured to the vehicle on the top and bottom by either a Spring Rod or Latch System. This allows for a quick disconnect of the net by the occupants, regardless of the position of the vehicle. For small triangle style nets grommets are recommended.

Question: Is there increased visibility of Mesh with 1" Webbing at 8" intervals? Or does everyone just go with 1" webbing for simplicity?

And what about Spring Rod vs. Latch?
Spring Rod:
https://prpseats.com/wp-content/uplo.../SpringRod.jpg

Latch:
https://www.kartek.com/mm5/graphics/..._1_800x600.jpg

Per the rules:
"Nets attached to door frames are permitted."
-----This is what we'll do.-----

"Nets must be installed so that the occupants can release the netting unassisted and exit the vehicle regardless of the position of the vehicle."

"The net border or edge and the net attachment must be made of materials that are as strong as, or stronger than, the net itself. Net attachments must be at a minimum of every 6 inches. Acceptable attachments include, but are not limited to: steel hose clamps, snaps, lift-a-dot, metal hooks, and steel rods. Nets must be tight so that when subject to a pushing force of approximately 50lbs the net deflects no more than four inches."

I have a 7 second drag car and there is no way in hell I would mount the window net to anything but the cage. Is it different with this application?

Beat95YJ 08-21-2018 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smracing (Post 44031646)
I have a 7 second drag car and there is no way in hell I would mount the window net to anything but the cage. Is it different with this application?

You are comparing a 7 second drag car with a stock class dezert truck??? :confused: attaching to the door will be fine for this application.

YotaAtieToo 08-21-2018 06:28 PM

What's the rule for doors? Can they open and close with the factory latches and hinges?

Beat95YJ 08-21-2018 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44032252)
What's the rule for doors? Can they open and close with the factory latches and hinges?

Most sanctioning bodies require a secondary latch.

bark beetle 08-21-2018 09:01 PM

Steel City Racing: King of the Hammers 2019 Toyota 4Runner IFS 4600 Build Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44030184)
One question:
Rugged Radios has agreed to sponsor us with a discount, but I'm honestly really surprised at how much comms cost, even with the discount. Are there any lower budget solutions out there for Vehicle to Pit/Pit to Vehicle Comms and Driver to Co-Driver Intercom? Similar to what LeadNav is doing for Navigation (as a cheaper Lowrance alternative)?

For example, I've looked at bluetooth motorcycle Driver to Rider devices that could help with comms for $150 or so on Amazon.

Thanks everyone.



Skip the Rugged Radio hype and go straight to any HAM radio outlet for transceivers with far more capability at a fraction of the price. Technically what everyone does is illegal because the frequencies and power levels they use require an amateur radio license from the FCC.

Also, I don’t recommend mounting any lighting on the exterior as you mentioned above, it will be a donation to the desert the first time you put this thing on its lid or stand it up.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

pitbullcruiser 08-21-2018 10:44 PM

If you want a second co-driver I volunteer to sit in the back seat!

Roll Tide!

Charles4x4 08-22-2018 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44032252)
What's the rule for doors? Can they open and close with the factory latches and hinges?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44032390)
Most sanctioning bodies require a secondary latch.

Correct, but we must have secondary latches (already purchased and pic somewhere a few pages back).

The theory here is to attach them to the door frames. Doors are secure with Primary (OEM) and Secondary (spring loaded bolt) latches. If doors stay functional, we will save time by opening/closing without touching the safety nets (they are time consuming from what i've seen).

If doors get destroyed and no longer work, we'll resort to safety nets to get in and out.

It's painful to watch the YouTube videos of co-driver unlatching, crawling out, winching, crawling in, and latching again. I'm hoping our functional doors will make winching much faster for us.

Charles4x4 08-22-2018 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bark beetle (Post 44032512)
Skip the Rugged Radio hype and go straight to any HAM radio outlet for transceivers with far more capability at a fraction of the price. Technically what everyone does is illegal because the frequencies and power levels they use require an amateur radio license from the FCC.

Also, I don’t recommend mounting any lighting on the exterior as you mentioned above, it will be a donation to the desert the first time you put this thing on its lid or stand it up.

Good points. Someone on Marlin's forum recommended something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Baofeng-BF-95.../dp/B00RFI8YXK

We'd need 2 to do Car to Pits / Pits to Car. We'd then just do some random Bluetooth setup for Driver/Co-Driver intercom.

Is this close to what you were thinking?

Yeah, I need to stare at the mounting point for the Rear Race Lights. Per the rules:

"f) All vehicles must have a minimum of two tail lights, two brake lights and one rearward facing amber light. Stock tail lights, if so equipped, are permitted as long as they remain on whenever the vehicle’s ignition is on.

g) A rearward facing amber light must be installed on all vehicles.

h) All rearward-facing lights must be protected against damage that may be caused by a rollover. ...The amber light and blue light if so required must be mounted a minimum of 48” from the ground and must be clearly visible, with no obstructions (i.e. not mounted behind any translucent object), from any position in an imaginary arc from the 5 o'clock position to the 7 o'clock position of the vehicle. The amber light and blue light, if so required, must be placed so as not to impair the vision of another driver approaching from the rear. All rearward-facing lights must be connected to the ignition switch or directly to a main battery power switch, such that they remain on whenever the vehicle’s ignition is on.

If during an event any required light fails to operate, the light must be fixed or replaced at the next available pit before the vehicle can continue in the event."

In other words, I need to stand behind the vehicle and stare at it for a while and find a spot that is >48" High, No Obstructions from directly behind the vehicle, and not behind any clear object (like glass).

To me, this means mounting it securely (somehow) at the bottom of the spoiler to protect it from a roll-over while not obstructing a driver's vision behind me right? Or at the top of the liftgate but below the opening if it's >48" up at ride height (although it'd be more exposed and more directly in view of a driver behind me).

Charles4x4 08-22-2018 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitbullcruiser (Post 44032644)
If you want a second co-driver I volunteer to sit in the back seat!

Roll Tide!

Thanks man. That'd be one heck of a ride!

Rear seat will be removed for good!

cryptic toy 08-22-2018 07:37 PM

If you didn't mind adding weight you could add to the crash bar/stiffner ,asuming you are gutting the doors. Thinking remove the latch and put a plate in that covers the latch area so you can add maybe one above and one below the original and plug weld to shell, just can't picture how to tie it in on the hinge side . Just remember to space the catch /lengthen it and deep the notch in door shell and shorten pull rod. Probably should put a strap on it too to prevent the pin from snapping and tweaking hinges on the body.

bark beetle 08-22-2018 08:30 PM

Steel City Racing: King of the Hammers 2019 Toyota 4Runner IFS 4600 Build Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44034498)
Good points. Someone on Marlin's forum recommended something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Baofeng-BF-95.../dp/B00RFI8YXK

We'd need 2 to do Car to Pits / Pits to Car. We'd then just do some random Bluetooth setup for Driver/Co-Driver intercom.

Is this close to what you were thinking?

To me, this means mounting it securely (somehow) at the bottom of the spoiler to protect it from a roll-over while not obstructing a driver's vision behind me right? Or at the top of the liftgate but below the opening if it's >48" up at ride height (although it'd be more exposed and more directly in view of a driver behind me).

I stick with Icom or Yaesu

You aren’t thinking about the cage that your truck will have. B or C pillars if they build it with them.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

gregj50 08-22-2018 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44034498)
Good points. Someone on Marlin's forum recommended something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Baofeng-BF-95.../dp/B00RFI8YXK

We'd need 2 to do Car to Pits / Pits to Car. We'd then just do some random Bluetooth setup for Driver/Co-Driver intercom.

Is this close to what you were thinking?

Yeah, I need to stare at the mounting point for the Rear Race Lights. Per the rules:

"f) All vehicles must have a minimum of two tail lights, two brake lights and one rearward facing amber light. Stock tail lights, if so equipped, are permitted as long as they remain on whenever the vehicle’s ignition is on.

g) A rearward facing amber light must be installed on all vehicles.

h) All rearward-facing lights must be protected against damage that may be caused by a rollover. ...The amber light and blue light if so required must be mounted a minimum of 48” from the ground and must be clearly visible, with no obstructions (i.e. not mounted behind any translucent object), from any position in an imaginary arc from the 5 o'clock position to the 7 o'clock position of the vehicle. The amber light and blue light, if so required, must be placed so as not to impair the vision of another driver approaching from the rear. All rearward-facing lights must be connected to the ignition switch or directly to a main battery power switch, such that they remain on whenever the vehicle’s ignition is on.

If during an event any required light fails to operate, the light must be fixed or replaced at the next available pit before the vehicle can continue in the event."

In other words, I need to stand behind the vehicle and stare at it for a while and find a spot that is >48" High, No Obstructions from directly behind the vehicle, and not behind any clear object (like glass).

To me, this means mounting it securely (somehow) at the bottom of the spoiler to protect it from a roll-over while not obstructing a driver's vision behind me right? Or at the top of the liftgate but below the opening if it's >48" up at ride height (although it'd be more exposed and more directly in view of a driver behind me).



Pretty sure Baofeng makes Rugged Ridge radios!!!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Charles4x4 08-24-2018 03:24 PM

Think this template design will work for the safety nets from PRP?
- Mesh with 1" Webbing at 8" Intervals
- Spring Steel Rod at the Top
- Spring Steel Rod at the Bottom
- Grommets around the rest (Verticals and Top Curve) for Hooks or Hose Clamps

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f7&oe=5BF29667

Per the rules:
"Nets attached to door frames are permitted."

"Nets must be installed so that the occupants can release the netting unassisted and exit the vehicle regardless of the position of the vehicle."

"The net border or edge and the net attachment must be made of materials that are as strong as, or stronger than, the net itself. Net attachments must be at a minimum of every 6 inches. Acceptable attachments include, but are not limited to: steel hose clamps, snaps, lift-a-dot, metal hooks, and steel rods. Nets must be tight so that when subject to a pushing force of approximately 50lbs the net deflects no more than four inches."

Bones 08-27-2018 06:51 AM

Thanks for my weekend update :flipoff2:

Charles4x4 08-27-2018 03:00 PM

Update: I'm still waiting on the Aeromotive parts to arrive. And I'm holding off on the Master Kill Switch until I finish the plumbing so I can test one system at a time in case either fail.

- Master Kill Switch & Fuel Line Parts: A bunch of parts arrived for the Master Kill Switch and the Fuel Cell Plumbing (but no pump just yet):
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ed&oe=5C36A4AB

- Fuel Line Adapters: I ran the fuel line plumbing as far as I could without a pump to ultimately tie into. Russell for lines and fittings was an obvious choice. The 5/16" quick connector fit the larger Supply line fine. I had to make an adapter out of fuel line and a doubled-up connector for the smaller Return line - in theory it should be very strong, but we'll find out when we test it. I literally inserted the OEM Supply line into the Male Adapter and ran fuel line across the top of both with clamps on both sides, so it's technically doubled-up.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...40&oe=5BED89C5

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...db&oe=5BF9ABB5

- Fuel Line Routing: I was able to route them above the frame rails and into the cab using the old fuel access hatch. It is lined with rubber, so the sheet metal cannot tear the fuel line while enduring vibrations/shocks, and clamps down tight so they cannot move. We'll see if it stays here:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...2d&oe=5C2FFE4D

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...72&oe=5BECE202

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f4&oe=5C31BF87

- Salvage Doors: I also finished installing the salvage doors, so all "bolt-on" exterior sheet metal is now salvage and ready for KOH abuse. I ended up getting these for a steal with glass, trim, and electronics - so I can ride to CA with the glass in and pull all glass once there.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b8&oe=5BED4DAA

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...c0&oe=5C3A3AFA

My only surprise on the doors is that the interior handle is integrated into the trim. It weights nothing, but may interfere with the cage. If so, I'll cut out the interior door handle and bolt it in or weld in some metal ones. We will need interior handles given the safety nets will prevent us from just using the exterior handles. And I'll need to cut into the trim for the secondary locks anyway.

- RCVs: I spoke with RCV on Friday and our front axle shafts are done! They are being shipped to Marlin's shop as early as this week. Our set will be the first set of Gen 2 shafts for the 4th gen ever made! I'm really anxious to see a RCV Gen 2 vs. OEM pic. Supposedly the difference vs. OEM and Gen 1 is HUGE - completely re-engineered CV Joints, additional housing clearance, and added strength throughout.

- Timeline: We had a build-team call on Friday and decided to delay the trip to CA until Mid-October instead of Mid-September. The front suspension and steering prototype simply won't be done until late September at this point and we need 2-weeks of testing before it goes on the 4Runner. I still feel good on the overall timeline, but it certainly pushes the first round of testing back. Everything else, including the Atlas II build, are all on track.

- Front Suspension/Steering: The front suspension/steering prototype looks great and is being built right with on-the-fly "flexibility" so we can tweak the designs, cut, and re-build if needed. I can't go into details, but it will be "Comprehensive". And Wyatt at RockSolidToys is of course anxious to get his hands on the T-Case, Rear Suspension, and Cage!

- Small Stuff: I reached out to Denso about sponsoring with new OEM parts (starter, alternator, etc) to refresh the vehicle. I also reached out to Royal Purple about a full synthetic refresh. I've finished first draft templates for the safety nets and need to transfer to poster board so I can mail to PRP. I'm also working on the rear race light, fuel level sender converter, and Comms/Intercom.

the_white_shadow 08-27-2018 03:11 PM

A few more "one-month" delays are going to be putting you into March. I dont see why you cant drive it over in September and work on the cage/fuel cell/seats/etc. You can tie the cage into the front suspension later. Wasting time just sitting around when there is 90% of the build left to do.

Charles4x4 08-27-2018 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_white_shadow (Post 44042022)
A few more "one-month" delays are going to be putting you into March. I dont see why you cant drive it over in September and work on the cage/fuel cell/seats/etc. You can tie the cage into the front suspension later. Wasting time just sitting around when there is 90% of the build left to do.

As I said, I still feel good about the timeline. Note this is the first delay we've experienced to-date and it's contained. And the delay will ultimately make for a better, more flexible end product on the front suspension/steering - which will be vital to our success. This way, WHEN we break something in testing, we can revise in CAD and rebuild much more quickly.

Believe me, I asked and offered to bring it in Sept anyway, but all parties in CA strongly prefer to get the front suspension and steering done first. The cage (seats, fuel cell, etc), t-case, and rear suspension will be done at pretty much the same time and Wyatt insisted we wait until the front is done.

As a silver lining, it gives me more time to knock out the small stuff that most teams push to the very end. So I'm taking advantage.

Charles4x4 08-30-2018 07:24 AM

Our new Aeromotive Phantom Stealth 200 kit arrived yesterday along with the various fittings and adapters we'll need. Still waiting on the Aeromotive wiring kit and 10m filter, but I picked up all the various hole saw blades I'll need last night so I can go ahead and mount it in the fuel cell.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f9&oe=5BEE1941

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...0b&oe=5C2FD91E

Thanks again to Aeromotive for sponsoring our build!

edabd 08-30-2018 01:17 PM

Coming along! you going to be ready in time for KOH? not too far away.

Charles4x4 08-31-2018 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edabd (Post 44047912)
Coming along! you going to be ready in time for KOH? not too far away.

Thanks! Ooh yes, we'll be ready. The work in CA will move FAST! My work in AL is the slow part of the build - the guys in CA are pros!

Charles4x4 08-31-2018 07:34 AM

With school back in full swing here and work ramping up, my daily work sessions are starting later and later - given less traffic in the build thread, I don't think I'm the only one who is just busier!

Anyway, I stayed up till 11 last night and missed the first College Football Game of the season to get the new Aeromotive Phantom Stealth 200 system installed in the Jaz Pro Sport II cell. I also installed the Classic Instruments fuel level sender at the same time (which is missing hardware - so I'm off to get nuts/bolts/washers again today).

Nothing hardcore - pretty straight forward. The pics tell the story:

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...8e&oe=5C2F932D

The Internals:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...c9&oe=5C2CA345

Drilling Pilot Holes (through both the lid and cell):
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4e&oe=5BFD21DC

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...6f&oe=5BF42264

Smaller holes for inner diameter of components:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...17&oe=5BFF0684

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...df&oe=5C2BE3F9

Larger holes for outer diameter of components:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...01&oe=5C3B1C6A

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d6&oe=5BFC69A1

Checking fitment:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f8&oe=5BF2A65A

Done:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...0c&oe=5BFF791E

Charles4x4 09-05-2018 04:40 PM

This week I've been focused mostly on wrapping up the fuel cell and plumbing. Earlier today, I was able to fire it up for the first time in weeks.

Short Video:
https://www.facebook.com/SteelCityRa...1765038597631/

The fuel system works flawlessly - Aeromotive, Jaz, and Russell are top notch! I still have to secure the lines/wiring for the drive to CA, but zero leaks and zero problems! Not bad for my first fuel cell plumbing install.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...94&oe=5C378E9A

The lines run along the top of the frame, into the cab where I reused the rubber entry for the old fuel system wiring to ensure a snug and abrasion free entry, and into the cab. It connects to the Aeromotive Phantom Stealth 200 kit on the Jaz Pro Sport II cell. While there are two filters in the tank, I also installed a 10m filter on the supply line just before the Fuel Pressure Gauge port.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...bf&oe=5C367B1A

For the fuel vent line, it has a roll-over check valve (meets KOH Rules) and routes to the side, up, over, down, and back to the center. It then ties into the OEM fuel line vent system underneath including the old catchment system (meets KOH Rules).

I still have to finish wiring the new level sender to the gauge, but I'm calling the fuel system mostly done at this point!

While I was wiring, I went ahead and installed the Rear LED Amber/Red/White Race light. I attached it to the bottom of the spoiler with a lot of hardware. It feels strong.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...1e&oe=5C268075

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...5c&oe=5C30115C

There are a ton of pattern options you can select on the toggle switch where the Amber flashes differently and the Red is mostly just on. I then wired the center white LED to a toggle switch on the dash.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ff&oe=5BF2E2DE

Other Updates:
- The 3.8 Atlas II is done and paid for. It'll be shipped out this week.

- I went ahead and ordered my Comms and Intercom from Rugged Radios while they had their Labor Day 20% off sale. I opted for their Race Ready 2-Car 6100 system with radio/intercom wiring harnesses.

- I mailed in my template on the race window nets to PRP. We'll have mesh with 1" webbing at 8" increments, a spring rod at the top and metal rod at the bottom, and 12 grommets to make sure it is tight.

- I started on the new Master Kill Switch, but still have work to do. I also have some ideas on the secondary latches for the front doors. I hope to have it done by the end of the week.

I also shipped a ton of stuff back that didn't fit and bought more stuff that hopefully will - it's time consuming, but thank goodness for Free Returns!

More updates coming soon.

mightymouse84 09-05-2018 04:48 PM

loving watching your build man. i feel like im ten steps ahead of you on some stuff to get ready but ten steps behind. I sincerely hope to see you on the lake bed and race against you in feb. Right now, it's a race against time to get ready. good luck man.

Charles4x4 09-06-2018 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightymouse84 (Post 44058968)
loving watching your build man. i feel like im ten steps ahead of you on some stuff to get ready but ten steps behind. I sincerely hope to see you on the lake bed and race against you in feb. Right now, it's a race against time to get ready. good luck man.

Thanks. Yeah, I think we're doing this build in a different order from most, but it's just the way my mind and the logistics aligned.

Whether for good or bad, my overall approach has been:
1) Start with a solid, low miles, zero rust, no issues reliable Toyota v8 base vehicle so we don't spend valuable time fixing things that are already broken.
2) Build a team and line up sponsors with solid products and/or fab skills for the most critical items - suspension, steering, axles, etc. Don't try to become an expert at everything yourself - let the professionals do what they do best.
3) Knock out all the small stuff that eats up team's time first, instead of letting it eat us alive at the end of the build (a lot of it driven by KOH rule compliance)
4) Get started early so we have plenty of time for prototyping, testing, and revising
5) Execute. Plain and simple - be dedicated, diligent, and determined enough to keep everything moving and everyone motivated/accountable - just get it done.

Looking forward to seeing you in Feb! Good luck with your build and let me know if I can ever do anything to help you out!

Charles4x4 09-07-2018 07:14 AM

We got most of the Master Kill Switch wired last night - my awesome wife stayed in the garage till 11:30 to help pull wires, crimp, heat shrink, etc. We ended up missing the entire Falcons/Eagles game, but o-well.

With the flip of a switch, we will now simultaneously kill the Battery, Alternator, and Fuel Pump - surely this will finally shut the v8 down!

We ran out of 2ga wire before we could make the final connection - OEM Alternator Out Wire to the Bus. I'll close it out and test everything today.

Alternator Out Connector to Switch Input 1:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...82&oe=5C3B4508

Battery + to Switch Input 2:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...8d&oe=5C235571

Wiring runs through firewall:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...82&oe=5C381010

And into the cab:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e0&oe=5C2D5556

To the Switch that is now securely mounted where the old Ash Tray plastic thing used to be:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...3e&oe=5C2F3C38

Switch Output goes back through firewall to power a 4 Prong Bus. Dist. Block, Fuel Pump Power, and Wire that connects back to OEM Alternator Out Wire (not yet connected as I ran out of 2ga wire) connected to remaining 3 prongs on Bus:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...66&oe=5BECCBB2

I crimped all 2ga wire and used heat shrink. I still need to re-do some OEM wires (Dist. Block, for example) that need to be heat shrinked.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b7&oe=5C351F81

Once I get 10' more of 2ga wire, I'll make the final connection from Bus to OEM Alternator Out Wire - this will flow through the OEM Alternator wiring and connect straight to the Battery + for normal charging.

I'll then test to make sure it all works as planned, shore up a few OEM connections, and zip-tie everything.

Charles4x4 09-07-2018 08:52 AM

Master Kill Switch is finally done! We studied the diagram again and saw that current can flow both ways when in 1+2 mode, so no need for the final wire.

Simple Battery Connector:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e1&oe=5C219966

Bus with Switch Output, Factory Wires (2), and Fuel Pump:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...9f&oe=5C362D2C

1+2 - Running Mode:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...de&oe=5C22176C
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...7d&oe=5C253D75

OFF - Kill Mode:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...43&oe=5BF4EB2E
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4e&oe=5C379ECB

Wiring Diagram on Blue Sea switch:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...7d&oe=5C2B5A68

For what is so simple in concept, this project was harder than expected on a new gen vehicle.

Done and Moving On.

hodgiemoto 09-07-2018 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightymouse84 (Post 44058968)
loving watching your build man. i feel like im ten steps ahead of you on some stuff to get ready but ten steps behind. I sincerely hope to see you on the lake bed and race against you in feb. Right now, it's a race against time to get ready. good luck man.

Build thread?

mightymouse84 09-08-2018 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgiemoto (Post 44064206)
Build thread?

It is in the land cruiser forum. https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyo...0-lazarus.html

gregj50 09-08-2018 10:12 AM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6d43dd4cb2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cae6f633d2.jpg
We wasted so much time on a wheelin trip because previous owner of my buddies Heep used black heat shrink on a positive lead , then wrapped in black loom!!!!
FAAAAAAWK!!!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

aaronmagneeto 09-08-2018 06:41 PM

Sub'd. Would be cool to see a later model Toyota out there. Hope you make the deadline.

Wilson 09-10-2018 08:47 PM

Is the kill switch supposed to be accessible by race staff outside of the car?

Bones 09-11-2018 06:23 AM

Shouldn't this be in CA by now close to testing and tuning? We are still installing a cut off switch?

Charles4x4 09-12-2018 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson (Post 44068672)
Is the kill switch supposed to be accessible by race staff outside of the car?

Ultra4 Rules:
"Kill switch should be accessible by all occupants in the vehicle."

Charles4x4 09-12-2018 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44069046)
Shouldn't this be in CA by now close to testing and tuning? We are still installing a cut off switch?

Glad to have you back active in the thread! Buried in a post above:

"- Timeline: We had a build-team call on Friday and decided to delay the trip to CA until Mid-October instead of Mid-September. The front suspension and steering prototype simply won't be done until late September at this point and we need 2-weeks of testing before it goes on the 4Runner. I still feel good on the overall timeline, but it certainly pushes the first round of testing back. Everything else, including the Atlas II build, are all on track."

But, see update below...

Charles4x4 09-12-2018 07:31 AM

Another update. All small stuff:
- Got the "Drivers Assist" camera wired up and mounted. We may move it to the front bumper later:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...c2&oe=5C216675

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e3&oe=5C218B1A

- Ran out of gas on the way to the station and was able to coast in. I got a few weird looks:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...10&oe=5C29DF54

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...58&oe=5C264057

- Ran out of wiring and connectors again, so had to replinish. Also broke my HF Multimeter, so I upgraded:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...66&oe=5C2F6BC1

- Got the Fuel Gauge and Fuel Level Sender wrapped up:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f8&oe=5C2A7E52

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...5d&oe=5C36597D

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...66&oe=5BEEFC2F

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e2&oe=5C34A7DA

- After swapping out a faulty AEM Fuel Pressure Gauge, all fuel related gauges are done. Truck reads 14.5 AFR and 49 PSI at standard conditions. AFR dropps to 11-13.5 when above 4K RPM, but we should be able to fix it when we do the MAF Calibrator later this week:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...2b&oe=5C22B007

Charles4x4 09-12-2018 07:32 AM

Update continued:

- All our Communications and Intercom equipment arrived from Rugged Radios. Will be installing later this week:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...8d&oe=5C31D7F0

- Almost done with all the small stuff I can knock out before CA:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...68&oe=5C34985F

Charles4x4 09-12-2018 08:16 AM

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...88&oe=5C2A07DA

I'm also excited to finally announce that 4x4Labs will be partnering with Steel City Racing on this KOH build. 4x4Labs will be building our Front and Rear Bumpers, Sliders, and Skid Plates - all designed and engineered for maximum strength and clearance while minimizing weight.

Luke and his team are the best in the business and the new products & enhancements designed for this build and KOH will be integrated into future 4Runner armor offerings by 4x4Labs.

In order to keep our timeline on track, the trip out to CA is now being moved back up to late-September as originally planned! The truck will be with Luke, HD, and the 4x4Labs team starting the week of 9/24 for 3-weeks for the bumpers, sliders, and skid plates to be engineered and installed - it'll be tight, but Luke's '06 4th Gen V8 will be used for mock-up until mine arrives.

Once 4x4Labs is done, Luke has graciously agreed to drive it to Marlin for me. Once BigMike is done with his work, it'll head to RockSolidToys and then may head back to 4x4Labs to finish up the skids with the 4 Link and Atlas II completed.

Thanks again to Luke, HD, and the amazing team at 4x4Labs (www.4x4Labs.com).

gregj50 09-12-2018 08:49 AM

How are we gonna get updates while this things getting jockeyed around???
Lol!!!
And don’t say IG or facefuck!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Charles4x4 09-12-2018 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregj50 (Post 44071196)
How are we gonna get updates while this things getting jockeyed around???
Lol!!!
And don’t say IG or facefuck!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm going to be hounding everyone for pics and updates! When I get them, I'll post them. Otherwise I'll be in the dark too!

Which reminds me - I bet my new RCVs are sitting in Marlin's shop (next to the Cooper STT Pros and KMC Enduro Beadlocks). Once the Marlin Crawler Roundup is done (this week on the Rubicon), I'll see if I can get some pics of them stand-alone and vs. OEM shafts.

Once we're on the lakebed, IG/FB will likely be the best source for real-time as I won't have time to write on forums until the race is done.

Charles4x4 09-13-2018 01:48 PM

Check out what just arrived! The 3.8 Atlas II could very well be the difference maker for our 2019 KOH. Special thanks to Steve and Cole at Advance Adapters for sponsoring our build and believing in our team.

Can't wait to get this in Wyatt at RockSolidToys' hands for the install along with his rear 4-Link!

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...49&oe=5C263B3F

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...26&oe=5C1840FA

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f9&oe=5C17F815

Along with everything we need for the install to the Toyota A750F:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...34&oe=5C225587

Given the lead-time on the Atlas II, I'm really glad to have this one in hand and ready to ride backseat on the trip out to CA in a few weeks!

Charles4x4 09-14-2018 08:21 AM

Got the USB to RS-232 adapter needed for our URD MAF Calibrator. We'll be tuning it this weekend.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f4&oe=5BED2038

Also picked up a set of Rugged Ridge Quick Disconnect side mirrors. We'll use them on the drive out to CA and can pull them off for the race. I have seen some drivers leave side mirrors on for the race - if we decide to, these collapse quickly and are made to be beaten on the trail.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...90&oe=5C2EA774


https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4a&oe=5C276D6E

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...6f&oe=5C1B3E3C

Charles4x4 09-14-2018 08:43 AM

Since the trip to CA is now only a little over a week away, I need to get on Maintenance items. One of the reasons I bought the particular '06 Limited I did was because the PO was meticulous in his maintenance (all OEM) and records. Based on a 6" stack of documents, here is the summary.

The truck has 107K on it now.

Important:
- Oil Changed every 3K Miles
- Brake Master Cylinder replaced at 105K
- F/R Brake Pads replaced at 105K
- Front Calipers replaced at 105K
- Brake Fluid Flush at 105K
- Water Pump replaced at 90K
- Timing Belt replaced at 90K
- New OEM Spark Plugs at 90K
- New Serpentine Belt at 90K
- TB and MAF Cleaned at 90K
- New $200 Die Hard Battery at 107K

Obviously it already has brand new Air Intake, Headers, Hi-Flow Cats, O2 Sensors, Exhaust, Battery/Alternator Wiring, etc.

Not Important for the race, but Still Notable:
- Thermostat and Gasket replaced at 90K (170deg Therm now installed)
- AC Compressor and Condensor replaced at 75K
- Fan Clutch replaced at 75K
- Both Front Axle Shafts replaced when he put 275/60R18 Terra Grapplers and leveling kit on at 80K (will be replaced by RCVs)

No matter what I'm planning on replacing:
- Alternator (New Denso)
- Battery Terminals (Brand ?)
- All Fluids (working on a sponsor here - Mobil 1 or Amsoil maybe?)

Other suggestions?

gregj50 09-14-2018 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44073488)







Along with everything we need for the install to the Toyota A750F:

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...34&oe=5C225587



Given the lead-time on the Atlas II, I'm really glad to have this one in hand and ready to ride backseat on the trip out to CA in a few weeks!


Redline!!!!
:smokin:





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DMG 09-14-2018 09:19 AM

Please post up about your experiences with the URD calibrator. I have one ordered for my 4.7 powered tundra and will be tuning it.

Charles4x4 09-14-2018 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMG (Post 44075354)
Please post up about your experiences with the URD calibrator. I have one ordered for my 4.7 powered tundra and will be tuning it.

Will do. Should be done with it by the end of the weekend. The stock tune seems to be almost perfect below 3.5K or 4K RPM, but is off above that. We're going to focus our time on the top of the power band.

Just printed the 27 page manual - WOW!

Charles4x4 09-14-2018 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44075272)
No matter what I'm planning on replacing:
- Alternator (New Denso)

Per Denso's website, the only option they have for an '06 V8 is a Re-manufactured Alternator - Part #210-0512

Does this sound right - that I cannot buy a New Denso alternator? Regardless, I went ahead and ordered the re-man unit so it'll be here in time.

Lux 09-14-2018 10:31 AM

Very interested in following your build. I'm building a Jeepspeed XJ and hoping to be ready for the 2019 season. This is our first time racing and building a race ready Jeep. I literally learned to Weld and did my first set of gears building my 9" in the last few months.

I've learned so much about what it takes through these forums/Race-Desert/Desert-Rangerz and went to the Mint 400 to meet other competitors and see their vehicles.

So your build/racing experiences are all very interesting to me as you're new to all this too.

Charles4x4 09-14-2018 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux (Post 44075488)
Very interested in following your build. I'm building a Jeepspeed XJ and hoping to be ready for the 2019 season. This is our first time racing and building a race ready Jeep. I literally learned to Weld and did my first set of gears building my 9" in the last few months.

I've learned so much about what it takes through these forums/Race-Desert/Desert-Rangerz and went to the Mint 400 to meet other competitors and see their vehicles.

So your build/racing experiences are all very interesting to me as you're new to all this too.

It's amazing how much you can learn in a matter of months! Thanks for following the build and I hope to meet you in person in Feb at KOH.

Vancity4x 09-16-2018 12:57 PM

This is... interesting. The first time i took my 05 Tacoma to koh it was ifs, had 3" midtravel, 63" leafs rear, shaved rear 14bolt, arb locked front n rear, brand new mtr 35's i wasnt afraid of beating it, I had soo much trouble with even the easiest trail Turkey Claw. Not enough clearence on 35's ifs. Emc is still most of the koh U4 course, theres a lot of hard rock parts that a 4runner wont have the right articulation for. Id expect to drag your 4runner through most of it and ill bet youll have wrinkley prune if any body left. I mean theres fully built hardcore buggys that run 4500 and dont finish the first lap. Props to you for trying but if i was serious about racing and trying to finish id build/buy a 4500.

My Tacoma is sas on 40's and one tons now still was gnarly doing even chocolate thunder, not that hard a trail, i blew out a door and window. The rocks are seriously big there for full size vehicle bodys

Charles4x4 09-17-2018 07:34 AM

Another update:
- We finished tuning via the URD MAF Calibrator. Unfortunately URD doesn't have a map for AFE Intake on a 4.7L V8 and didn't offer to create one for us, so we had to do it manually.

It was harder than we were thinking - me driving 0-60 mph runs, a friend in the passenger seat reading AFR at various RPMs, and a third friend in the back with the laptop tweaking things and re-uploading a new tune ever 2-3 mins. It took us well over an hour, but we got AFR around 14.5 <4K RMP (no adjustments to stock needed) and 13.5 >4K RPMs (adjustments to stock needed here) and decided not to push our luck any more. Very thankful we didn't get a ticket or stopped in the process - doing 60 in a 30 isn't easy to pull off.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...72&oe=5C2120CC

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...0a&oe=5C27E9BA

- Also got the Rugged Radios 6100 Race Ready kit installed. We gutted everything we didn't need on the center console except for the structural parts and used it to mount the radio, intercom, and toggle switches. Now all we have to do is hook to our helmets, flip a switch, stick the antenna on, and we're ready to go.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ca&oe=5C371A48

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...63&oe=5C2DF047

- We also finished the secondary locks per KOH rules. Nothing pretty, but they are spring loaded for a quick lock and just plain work. Took a lot of adjustments to get these to lock/unlock easily without space in between.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a6&oe=5C17F609

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e6&oe=5C2976B3

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...be&oe=5C354363

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e1&oe=5C2A3E92

- Our PRP Safety Nets are almost done. They won't make it to AL in time, so they're being shipped to Luke at 4x4Labs' shop.

- I'm also waiting for the Denso Alternator and Rugged Radios Dual Pumper to arrive later this week. Once they are done, I'll check all fluids and be ready for the drive out to CA this coming weekend. 36-Hr Trip!

Charles4x4 09-17-2018 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancity4x (Post 44078750)
This is... interesting. The first time i took my 05 Tacoma to koh it was ifs, had 3" midtravel, 63" leafs rear, shaved rear 14bolt, arb locked front n rear, brand new mtr 35's i wasnt afraid of beating it, I had soo much trouble with even the easiest trail Turkey Claw. Not enough clearence on 35's ifs. Emc is still most of the koh U4 course, theres a lot of hard rock parts that a 4runner wont have the right articulation for. Id expect to drag your 4runner through most of it and ill bet youll have wrinkley prune if any body left. I mean theres fully built hardcore buggys that run 4500 and dont finish the first lap. Props to you for trying but if i was serious about racing and trying to finish id build/buy a 4500.

My Tacoma is sas on 40's and one tons now still was gnarly doing even chocolate thunder, not that hard a trail, i blew out a door and window. The rocks are seriously big there for full size vehicle bodys

I don't think anyone was expecting KOH to be easy :).

You're right that most EMC cars don't finish the first lap - but it's not because of the rock trails. In the past, the first lap has been mostly desert with no serious rock trails. My theory is that the buggies are built for the rocks, but many never make it to them as their solid axle setups can't handle the abuse of high-speed desert - where our IFS will hopefully shine.

We hope to thrive in the desert and survive the rock trails.

We definitely have no interest in 4500! There is a huge benefit to the bypasses allowed for 4600 (most notably Spooners and Outer Limits last year, among others). Yes, we know we'll be winching and dragging the 4Runner through the rocks, but IF we survive the hardest sections, we should make up significant time in the desert and through bypasses.

As you know from this thread, we'll have a strong setup: RJ60 in the rear with RST's 4-link, HD IFS with coilovers and HD steering setup in the front with RCVs. ARBs front and rear. 35's on beadlocks with 4.56 gears, a 3.8 Atlas II, and our throaty V8. And of course Armor all around for "sliding" over the rocks.

We've made our bet on the V8 4Runner platform and come Feb, we'll be the first ones to know if it is a setup that can truly perform at KOH. If you're on the lakebed, please stop by and introduce yourself or lend a hand. We'll need all the help we can get!

hurleygo3 09-17-2018 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancity4x (Post 44078750)
This is... interesting. The first time i took my 05 Tacoma to koh it was ifs, had 3" midtravel, 63" leafs rear, shaved rear 14bolt, arb locked front n rear, brand new mtr 35's i wasnt afraid of beating it, I had soo much trouble with even the easiest trail Turkey Claw. Not enough clearence on 35's ifs. Emc is still most of the koh U4 course, theres a lot of hard rock parts that a 4runner wont have the right articulation for. Id expect to drag your 4runner through most of it and ill bet youll have wrinkley prune if any body left. I mean theres fully built hardcore buggys that run 4500 and dont finish the first lap. Props to you for trying but if i was serious about racing and trying to finish id build/buy a 4500.

My Tacoma is sas on 40's and one tons now still was gnarly doing even chocolate thunder, not that hard a trail, i blew out a door and window. The rocks are seriously big there for full size vehicle bodys

The 4600 class doesn't run anything that a 4runner on 35's should have any issues with. They bypass most trails and the rest are all going down.

jetboy 09-20-2018 09:52 AM

4600 is limited to 35's - so if 35's aren't enough, I'm not sure any of the 4600 class could finish. I suspect the biggest problem with a 4Runner is the wheel base being on the short end for go-fast use.

One suggestion that's very minor but could be useful is to put a tack weld or drill a hole and use a crown nut on the driver's side upper control arm bolt. That side - because of the motion of the arm and being a normal pitch bolt thread - has a tendency to loosen over time in the choppy stuff. I would also tack weld the lower control arm cams so they don't move on you. For normal use, of course I'd do something else, but for this - tack welding is easy and keeps them locked in place. One less thing to worry about.

I'm interested to see how it goes. Good luck!

Charles4x4 09-20-2018 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetboy (Post 44085644)
4600 is limited to 35's - so if 35's aren't enough, I'm not sure any of the 4600 class could finish. I suspect the biggest problem with a 4Runner is the wheel base being on the short end for go-fast use.

One suggestion that's very minor but could be useful is to put a tack weld or drill a hole and use a crown nut on the driver's side upper control arm bolt. That side - because of the motion of the arm and being a normal pitch bolt thread - has a tendency to loosen over time in the choppy stuff. I would also tack weld the lower control arm cams so they don't move on you. For normal use, of course I'd do something else, but for this - tack welding is easy and keeps them locked in place. One less thing to worry about.

I'm interested to see how it goes. Good luck!

Thanks for the good suggestions. I'll pass this along.

Charles4x4 09-20-2018 12:54 PM

20 Attachment(s)
I've been checking off things in the Ultra4 Rulebook and had two more "small item" questions:

1) It says we have to have a locking dipstick. My OEM one is just a O-Ring style. What do most do here? Literally swap in an Aftermarket Locking dipstick? Or modify their existing one (add a lip it can lock to, drill hole in handle and zip tie, safety wire the handle to the tube mount, etc?)

2) It says steel-braded lines (fuel lines for me) going into passenger compartment must be shielded (and the steel-braded part doesn't count). What is everyone doing to shield these without literally putting sheet metal caps over the entire length? Maybe metal tape would suffice?

Thanks!

hurleygo3 09-20-2018 02:51 PM

Just zip tie the dipstick. I thought it was only high pressure lines like steering that needed to be shielded. Don't stress much about tech. The shit that fly's through is impressive.

Beat95YJ 09-20-2018 03:15 PM

My antique desert truck has a carburetor return spring holding the dipstick in. I don’t know if that would pass tech though. It just goes from the block through the loop.

Charles4x4 09-21-2018 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44086282)
Just zip tie the dipstick. I thought it was only high pressure lines like steering that needed to be shielded. Don't stress much about tech. The shit that fly's through is impressive.

Good deal. I'll zip tie and maybe safety wire the dipstick today to cross it off the list. I think you may be right - they said all lines, but did only specify high pressure ones like steering.

Charles4x4 09-21-2018 03:19 PM

Another Quick Update before I start the 36-hr drive to CA this weekend:
- New Denso Alternator arrived. I tried all sorts of methods to get it out and eventually found a "quick replacement" route that should allow me to swap it in 20-30 mins just in case we have to during the race.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...81&oe=5C2A21BE

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...93&oe=5C28AB25

- The old Alternator with 100K Miles on it:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...93&oe=5C19AEED

- Also got the new Rugged Radios M3 Two Person Air Pumper system in. I'll be wiring the switch in today and will actually install the pumper to the cage in CA.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...26&oe=5C5DD880

I'll be posting some live progress pics from the drive to CA on social media if anyone is following us there. Be praying the drive out is seamless and we make it in record time!

Have a great weekend everyone!

Charles4x4 09-21-2018 05:45 PM

Rugged Radios M3 Dual Air Pumper is installed. I just have to mount the actual unit to the cage in CA, plug in one connector, and go.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...63&oe=5C15D3F1

All that's left is packing up and leaving.

Charles4x4 09-26-2018 08:12 PM

I ended up leaving around 11:30 CT on Sunday to head out on the long drive. For those not following FB or IG and haven't been receiving the real-time updates, as of 9am PT this morning (Wed), the truck is now in Luke and HD's capable hands at 4x4Labs in Grass Valley, CA.

I'm sure many followers are waiting for a long story filled with uncertainty from attempting to drive a KOH bound rig 36-hrs and 2,400 miles across the country. Well, there wasn't much. I literally did not have a single problem the entire trip. The rig is rock solid reliable from an Engine, Transmission, Electrical, and Fuel Delivery standpoint.

I averaged 12-hrs a day only stopping for gas and meals. I put air in the tires a couple times. I checked fluids each morning. I monitored Fuel Pressure, Engine Temp, and AFR every few minutes. And I mostly watched the fuel gauge. I was able to get 15-18 MPG between stops and rarely could make it till 1/4 tank before I simply had to step out and stretch my legs.
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...90&oe=5C1F2E44

The only eventful thing happened on Day 1 where I intentionally ran the gas to 1/16 Tank to find true Empty. It ran great until I went down a steep hill, at which point all the fuel shifted to the front of the cell away from the pump pick-up and the engine died. I threw it in N, coasted down the hill, and fired it back up as soon as I hit the next climb. It died again on the next downhill, but I was able to coast a couple miles in N to a an exit where I ran a stop sign at the bottom of a off ramp and coasted up next to a pump with 0 inches to spare.

After that I never let it get below 1/8 of a tank just in case.

The rest of the trip consisted of driving, eating, filling up with gas, stretching legs, and driving more. The scenery changed enough to keep things interesting the first two days. But once I got past Bonneville in Utah, it got a bit too repetitive - especially in Northern Nevada.
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...96&oe=5C253797

Tons of scenery pics from the trip are on FB and IG. Here are a few of my favorites:
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...9c&oe=5C5B0993

Cheyenne, WY:
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...0c&oe=5C5D8878

Green River, WY:
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...e3&oe=5C28AD3F

Bonneville, UT
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...ae&oe=5C237E1A

Tahoe National Forest, CA:
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...3d&oe=5C243070

Charles4x4 09-26-2018 08:25 PM

This morning I got to spend some time with Luke, HD, and the 4x4Labs team at their new, huge shop in Grass Valley, CA. It's impressivet!

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...ca&oe=5C57F586

Luke and the team have been building 4x4 Armor for close to 20-years and their products are world class for strength, functionality, and design. They take the approach of allowing their products and reputation to speak for itself - and the pride they have in their craftsmanship and passion they have for the offroad industry shines through in the end product.

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...8c&oe=5C180DC4

Their shop is a mix of Hi-Tech equipment and HUGE old machinery. There is also a massive powdercoating booth and oven - they do everything in house! They have a flow throughout the shop - not a lot of talking, but a ton of work getting done. Behind the shop is at least 1 of every 4x4 Toyota made since the 1st gen pickup for mock-up including tons of Land Cruisers, Tacomas, and Pickups.

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...b3&oe=5C1E0A60

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...d0&oe=5C62D2BD

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...5e&oe=5C2623A8

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...68&oe=5C57D48C

They still do a ton of 80 Series Land Cruiser stuff, but see the 3rd, 4th, and 5th Gen 4Runner platforms ramping up dramatically. Our KOH build will augment their large offering with a Complete System of 4th Gen 4Runner Armor that will be integrated together in fit, functionality, and style!

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...7b&oe=5C2A441C

Charles4x4 09-26-2018 08:41 PM

For our 4th Gen, Luke and the team will be creating a light weight, extremely strong, high clearance Front Bumper that will be similar in style to the one shown on this GX below and will house our Warn Zeon Platinum 10-S winch and a LED light bar.

This one was still being fabricated while I was there and will still missing a few components including the upper bar in front of the grill (on the floor to the left):
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...29&oe=5C17A217

The Rear Bumper will be similar to their existing 4th Gen 4Runner rear bumper and the one shown on this GX. They have 3 or 4 ideas to enhance it to make sure it has maximum clearance and strength while protecting the body and saving weight. This bumper has the best departure angle of any on the market. It'll be made to hold a tire carrier and ladder system in the future, but of course we won't run anything except the bumper to save weight for KOH:
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...33&oe=5C2637BF

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...8c&oe=5C5E3F74

The sliders will be similar to the one pictured below including the slide plates and kick-out at the rear, which will fit our 3" extended on each side Currie RJ60 in the rear. They have some weight saving ideas here too:
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...05&oe=5C2A2BDD

And finally, they'll be fabricating a full skid plate system for the undercarriage that will be made out of high strength steel for maximum durability as we drag the 4Runner over obstacles at KOH.

I'm really excited to have Luke, HD, and the 4x4Labs team partnering with us on this car. Their passion is evident in their products. No flashy marketing, no gimmics. Just solid products for those who want maximum protection and performance with top notch design.

Before I left, I handed them the keys and challenged them to work their magic and simply have fun with it. I know they'll do an amazing job and I cannot wait to see the full system of 4th Gen 4Runner armor that will be turning heads when they are done!
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...48&oe=5C56775D

Thanks again for the 4x4Labs team for partnering with us on this build and being such wonderful hosts while I was in CA.

Once Luke is done, he'll be driving it to BigMike at MarlinCrawler for the next phase of the build in mid-October.

hodgiemoto 10-01-2018 09:40 AM

So what do you do now thumb a ride back to Alabamy? Kinda a left yourself stranded?

Charles4x4 10-03-2018 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgiemoto (Post 44101144)
So what do you do now thumb a ride back to Alabamy? Kinda a left yourself stranded?

I grabbed an Uber from Luke’s shop to Sacramento airport. I then flew to WI for 2-days of work travel and was back home before dinner on Friday in AL.

Charles4x4 10-05-2018 07:26 AM

Got some great updates from Luke and the team at 4x4Labs last night:

- Luke finished his new 4th Gen 4Runner prototype front bumper on his own rig and will be completing a slightly improved and jig-built version for mine next.

- This new 4x4Labs 4th Gen 4Runner bumper is designed for Ultra High Clearance, Maximum Approach Angle, and a No Fluff Design. Just Strong, Sexy Lines, Low Weight, and Maximum Protection. What else could you ask for!

Here are a few pics of the prototype:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ea&oe=5C5DA1DD

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...c1&oe=5C1F507B

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...20&oe=5C597A9B

- Check out the Approach Angle - Insane!
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...5d&oe=5C5502E8

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f3&oe=5C1FB2A1

More details of the design and construction. Sexy welds!
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...91&oe=5C520576

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...62&oe=5C1D2835

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...93&oe=5C50EF8E

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...44&oe=5C1C3801

- In order to ensure maximum approach angle on the front bumper, they relocated our PS Cooler and added a high performance aluminum cooler.

I can't wait to see the bumper finished, powder coated, and stamped with the 4x4Labs brand on our KOH rig. More magic to come from 4x4Labs over the coming days!

Bones 10-05-2018 07:29 AM

Nice fab work, but that bumper is :barf:

Corey Young 10-05-2018 07:59 AM

Do rules allow you to cut or modify the inner fender well?

Charles4x4 10-05-2018 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corey Young (Post 44108688)
Do rules allow you to cut or modify the inner fender well?

Simple answer: No. Remember that our front suspension will be extended out 3.5". So if a rock happens to "modify" the front inner fenders for us during the race, so be it. And the tires will be far enough out that there won't be risk of puncture.

From the rulebook:
"Front inner fenders must be complete and unmodified, with the following limitations and exceptions: outer fenders (wheel well openings) may be trimmed for the single and exclusive purpose of allowing for tire clearance. Modifications to the outer fenders must preserve the look of the stock wheel wells, as originally manufactured, and must not be trimmed excessively (no more than a 2" gap between any part of the outer fender and the tire at full compression)."

"Front outer fenders may be replaced with OEM-style aftermarket fenders (flared fiberglass fenders are permitted)."

"Rear inner and outer fenders must be complete and unmodified, with the following limitations and exceptions: outer fenders (wheel well openings) may be trimmed for the single and exclusive purpose of allowing for tire clearance. Modifications to the outer fenders must preserve the look of the stock wheel wells, as originally manufactured, and must not be trimmed excessively (no more than a 2" gap between any part of the outer fender and the tire at full compression)."

Charles4x4 10-05-2018 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44108644)
Nice fab work, but that bumper is :barf:

You're impossible to please :). Just wait till it is in final form - this was just the prototype and wasn't yet complete.

I love the design and functionality - and it'll look even better once it's done and coated.

Bones 10-05-2018 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44108728)
You're impossible to please :). Just wait till it is in final form - this was just the prototype and wasn't yet complete.

I love the design and functionality - and it'll look even better once it's done and coated.

That may be, but why is there a huge void in the middle? Is it not done yet?

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f3&oe=5C1FB2A1

Charles4x4 10-05-2018 08:33 AM

One final update for the day. I have been working on sequencing with Luke, BigMike, and Wyatt. Here's the latest on the timeline:

- Oct 15: Car goes from 4x4Labs to Marlin Crawler

- Nov 5: Car goes from Marlin Crawler to RockSolidToys

- Dec 3: Car is pretty much done and ready for testing

Moving 4x4Labs up to the front of the CA work ended up helping us get back on track with the timeline. We're all feeling pretty good.

I won't spoil the surprises, but a lot has been accomplished on the front suspension and steering over the past few weeks.

Also, Front Gen 2 RCVs have also been received! I'll post pics when I have them.

Charles4x4 10-05-2018 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44108736)
That may be, but why is there a huge void in the middle? Is it not done yet?

Correct, there will be a hoop and other features there that simply hadn't been added to the prototype as of last night.

Note the center section is intentionally designed to fit all common winches, including the new Warn Zeon Platinum 10-S that I hand delivered to Luke.

Beat95YJ 10-05-2018 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44108644)
Nice fab work, but that bumper is :barf:

This. Probably functional, idk.

noflyzone 10-05-2018 11:35 AM

You get a C on your marketing test today.

YotaAtieToo 10-05-2018 06:25 PM

I don't mind the style of the bumper. I don't like how low the fairlead is and I think it sticks out to far, they look like rock hooks.

I kinda wish Op would have just left out koh and built a sweet trail/exploring rig. Because that's what it looks like.

Black Sheep 10-05-2018 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noflyzone (Post 44109082)
You get a C- on your marketing test today.

No shit... it was painful to read.

the78outlaw 10-15-2018 05:30 PM

As painful as this is, any updates?

hodgiemoto 10-16-2018 12:29 PM

In for updates...

Charles4x4 10-17-2018 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Sheep (Post 44109782)
No shit... it was painful to read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the78outlaw (Post 44124274)
As painful as this is, any updates?

Quote:

Originally Posted by noflyzone (Post 44109082)
You get a C on your marketing test today.

Well, you guys are really inspiring me to keep this thread updated :flipoff2:

Just kidding :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgiemoto (Post 44125484)
In for updates...

I'm waiting for some updated pics to arrive from both 4x4Labs and Marlin Crawler. A ton of work done on the car over the past 2-weeks, but not many pics to show for it. I expect a ton of pics to arrive at the end of the week when the car moves from 4x4Labs to Marlin's shop.

Quick Update:
- Armor will be done by Friday and 4x4Labs had a great idea for the Rear Bumper that I'll show off soon.

- Front Suspension and Steering are in process. The UCAs, LCAs, and Spindles are being laser cut this week.

- We're also taking final measurements off the new Gen 2 RCVs in the front to make sure everything will match perfectly.

- We've also been coordinating heavily with Icon on Front Coilovers, Rear Shocks, and Rear Coils.

- And Wyatt has some radical ideas for the rear 4-Link that we'll go into soon as well.

I'll post another update as soon as the pics begin to arrive.

Aisin 10-18-2018 03:30 AM

In a time crunch but sending 4Runner to Marlin Crawler? These guys are notorious for having zero product in stock. Hope you got all your parts. Good luck. :D

Bones 10-18-2018 06:34 AM

Don't you want to be out testing in November?

Charles4x4 10-18-2018 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44128234)
Don't you want to be out testing in November?

It'll be the beginning of Dec when testing begins on site in JV. I was originally aiming for just after Thanksgiving, but it'll be a couple weeks afterward. Still looking really good on the timeline.

Charles4x4 10-18-2018 08:03 AM

Got a few "In Process" pics from Luke at 4x4Labs last night. These are from earlier in the week. All armor (Front Bumper, Rear Bumper, Sliders, and Skid Plates) will be finished, powder coated, and badged by EOB Tomorrow. Then Luke is personally delivering the car to BigMike at Marlin Crawler for the next stage of fabrication.

Luke surprised us by building all armor (Front/Rear Bumpers, Sliders, and Skids) out of cross broken Heat Treated AR400! It's so strong that it literally stalled his 150 ton press a few times for the sliders.

Front Bumper and Front Skids:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b6&oe=5C8AE585

Check out Luke's "AR" Branding next to the High-Lift Insert Hole:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4a&oe=5C5DE2C8

Sliders:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b7&oe=5C4E99E8

Winch Fairlead they "whipped" out:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...79&oe=5C45703C

Rear bumper and skids are being finish welded today. I'll have more pics soon. These guys are AWESOME at what they do.

locrwln 10-18-2018 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aisin (Post 44128174)
In a time crunch but sending 4Runner to Marlin Crawler? These guys are notorious for having zero product in stock. Hope you got all your parts. Good luck. :D

I have to agree with him. I love the products and have used them on numerous vehicles, but EVERYTHING takes forever with Marlin. Great products (and guys); horrible business model.

Jack

Green Truck 10-18-2018 10:53 PM

Killer build. :smokin: I'd like to see it when you get to the lakebed.

Charles4x4 10-19-2018 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Truck (Post 44129572)
Killer build. :smokin: I'd like to see it when you get to the lakebed.

Sounds good.

Small update on the Front Bumper. Luke, HD and the team went all out - Rock Crushing Approach Angle design:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...7d&oe=5C49BFB4

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...70&oe=5C57563D

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...c5&oe=5C49339D

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f4&oe=5C5B6C77

The Front Bumper, Sliders, and Skid Plates are done and in Powder Coat this morning (they do powder coating in house at 4x4Labs).

The rear bumper is being finish welded and will go in Powder Coat ASAP - it's the only item we're slightly behind on right now (maybe a 1 day delay).

They're also working on a cool idea for our exhaust... They are going All Out for this build!

Charles4x4 10-19-2018 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aisin (Post 44128174)
In a time crunch but sending 4Runner to Marlin Crawler? These guys are notorious for having zero product in stock. Hope you got all your parts. Good luck. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by locrwln (Post 44129320)
I have to agree with him. I love the products and have used them on numerous vehicles, but EVERYTHING takes forever with Marlin. Great products (and guys); horrible business model.

Jack

BigMike has been amazing to work with throughout this build. Without his support, guidance, and network of amazing friends and fabricators, we would be nowhere on this project.

Note we aren't using anything from Marlin that would be "in stock" on this build. More to come here.

Finally, Marlin is the key to one of our last big surprises on this build that will be disclosed later on...

Rockcrawlintoy 10-19-2018 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44109756)
I don't mind the style of the bumper. I don't like how low the fairlead is and I think it sticks out to far, they look like rock hooks.


That fairlead is gonna get mashed Its the leading edge of the rig

Charles4x4 10-19-2018 12:25 PM

The Steel version of 4x4Labs new 4th Gen 4Runner (and Lexus GX) bumper weighs in well under 100 lbs. My AR400 version weights slightly more at 108 lbs given the abuse we expect to see at KOH.

I'll ask for Luke's thoughts on the fairlead.

arickvan 10-19-2018 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by locrwln (Post 44129320)
I have to agree with him. I love the products and have used them on numerous vehicles, but EVERYTHING takes forever with Marlin. Great products (and guys); horrible business model.

Jack

I would imagine he's just low on manpower, its hard to maintain good quality/good price and expand in that industry

Steel city clogging up his shop for a week isnt going to help wait times either!

also with alot of products if demand is high and supply is low then JACK your prices way up and lower the demand while maintaining profit! :flipoff2:

Which is what marlin isn't doing and i appreciate that but the down side is wait times...

sidenote: His business model is to try to please everybody, all at once, all the time... Great guy but he does need to learn how to say no :D

65Chevy4x4 10-19-2018 12:47 PM

I know personally i have done some jobs where I probably spent 20 hours talking to customer, researching stuff. Finding parts etc. All time I eat. I'm sure Marlin has done the same or more with this project. Hopefully it all works out here and it makes it to the lakebed.

Charles4x4 10-22-2018 09:24 AM

Update:
Armor is pretty much done. Luke will be driving the 4Runner to BigMike on Friday. All 4x4Labs has left is some finishing touches, final powder coating, and hooking up the Front AND Rear winches (yes, 2 winches)!

Two weeks ago I got a call from Luke and HD saying they wanted to put a winch in the rear too - I love their passion!

So I called our friends at Warn and was able to pick up a 9.0Rc that'll be perfect for the rear bumper - Warn is AWESOME!
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...66&oe=5C471299

I know we won't use it as much as the front Zeon 10K Platinum, but it'll be nice for rearward recoveries and to help other racers on the trail.

Last pics before powder coating below.

Huge sheet of AR400 being cut at 4x4Labs
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bo2JIKuH...ken-by=4x4labs

Rear Bumper:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...c5&oe=5C3EB03D

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...25&oe=5C414BC3

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...9c&oe=5C4FC4BF

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ea&oe=5C840617

We'll be running Dual Exhaust above the frame rail and out of the wings in the rear bumpers:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...8b&oe=5C8773E6

Sliders:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...2a&oe=5C4E42C3

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...7a&oe=5C528EF4

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a1&oe=5C4FED47

Continued below...

Charles4x4 10-22-2018 09:25 AM

Full Undercarriage IFS Skid-Plates:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...52&oe=5C44654B

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...1a&oe=5C49EA90

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...58&oe=5C85E06D

More to come...

Beat95YJ 10-22-2018 01:04 PM

Did you weigh this truck before you started?

Bones 10-22-2018 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44133870)
hooking up the Front AND Rear winches (yes, 2 winches)!

Two weeks ago I got a call from Luke and HD saying they wanted to put a winch in the rear too - I love their passion!

So I called our friends at Warn and was able to pick up a 9.0Rc that'll be perfect for the rear bumper - Warn is AWESOME!

Great winches, but like stated way early on, should have went Gigglepin and seriously should think about winching practice part of your prerunning

Provience 10-22-2018 01:57 PM

I know it doesn't matter, but on thick stuff like a bumper I just can't wrap my head around the reason to not just run a continuous weld :flipoff2: (no, this comment doesn't deserve a response; yes 4x4 labs makes quality stuff and i'm happy to see them working on this)

also, keeping with the much earlier theme of 'who gets exposure' and whatnot, this thread has nearly 40,000 views and your facebook posts average about 10 'reactions' a piece. i'm glad to see you continue to update this thread :smokin:

with two winches, winch early and winch often! the one time that it saves you from wasting effort trying to make a line will more than make up for the 10 times that you 'probably could have made it'. I hope your co-dawg is in good shape!

hurleygo3 10-22-2018 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44134304)
Great winches, but like stated way early on, should have went Gigglepin and seriously should think about winching practice part of your prerunning

The stock class hardly runs any of the rock trails, and the ones they do are all down hill. If I were to build a 4600 car. It'd be all about the desert and strong enough to get through the rocks

pitbullcruiser 10-22-2018 03:40 PM

It’s hard to run one continuous weld without gloves or sleeves.

Roc Doc 10-22-2018 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44134266)
Did you weigh this truck before you started?

Woo hoo! 6,000lb racetruck.

Stock they're between 4300 and 4500lbs.

Roc Doc 10-22-2018 05:42 PM

Oh, and probably too late, but get the lightest strongest forged wheels you can find. They accelerate faster, brake faster, respond to terrain faster, and if forged they're way stronger. In the sports car world they say losing a lb of rotating weight is like taking 7lbs off the chassis.

I skipped a few pages so I don't know if this has been covered, but if you're not running stickies don't expect it to crawl like a trail rig. You're going to have to run enough air pressure so that it steers good at speed, and you don't blow the beads off the wheels and/or shred the sidewalls, and that will mean it will suck in the rocks. You are going to really need some time in JV to figure out what works.

Also your crew should have a good ground plane antenna with a 30' or taller pole, 100 watt or better radio, and external speakers to listen for your "hellllllpppp". cries.

Good luck.

Roc Doc 10-22-2018 05:52 PM

And your crew should have plenty of fire extinguishers. A couple 20lb'rs and several 5's, in addition to what you have on the race pig.

Charles4x4 10-23-2018 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44134266)
Did you weigh this truck before you started?

No, I'm afraid to weight it :). It is what it is. We cut weight when we gutted the interior, doors, tailgate, and put on fiberglass fenders. But we're adding a lot of armor back. I'm guessing it'll come in over 4,500 lbs, maybe a good bit more...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44134304)
Great winches, but like stated way early on, should have went Gigglepin and seriously should think about winching practice part of your prerunning

Yes, we will definitely be practicing winching techniques. I have a feeling we'll be winching a good bit in whatever rock trails 4600 encounters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 44134360)
Also, keeping with the much earlier theme of 'who gets exposure' and whatnot, this thread has nearly 40,000 views and your facebook posts average about 10 'reactions' a piece. i'm glad to see you continue to update this thread :smokin:

Yes, I vowed to keep the build threads going and I will. Love to see 40K views - I had no idea. Facebook sends me a weekly update - last week 4x4Labs stuff was exposed to 15,000 people in 7-days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 44134360)
with two winches, winch early and winch often! the one time that it saves you from wasting effort trying to make a line will more than make up for the 10 times that you 'probably could have made it'. I hope your co-dawg is in good shape!

Yes, no pride. We're racing KOH in a V8 SUV! If we don't make a line, we'll winch. My co-driver is a fireman and really into crossfit - he's ready to carry a light winch-rope wherever needed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44134386)
The stock class hardly runs any of the rock trails, and the ones they do are all down hill. If I were to build a 4600 car. It'd be all about the desert and strong enough to get through the rocks

Exactly!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44134660)
Woo hoo! 6,000lb racetruck.

Stock they're between 4300 and 4500lbs.

Let's hope it ends up 4,500 lbs ish, but who knows. The Atlas II, Axles, Armor, etc are all beefy. Probably the biggest thing we pulled out was the Power/Heated seats - HEAVY!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44134680)
Oh, and probably too late, but get the lightest strongest forged wheels you can find. They accelerate faster, brake faster, respond to terrain faster, and if forged they're way stronger. In the sports car world they say losing a lb of rotating weight is like taking 7lbs off the chassis.

We're running KMC XD222 Enduro Beadlocks - they are in CA now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44134680)
I skipped a few pages so I don't know if this has been covered, but if you're not running stickies don't expect it to crawl like a trail rig. You're going to have to run enough air pressure so that it steers good at speed, and you don't blow the beads off the wheels and/or shred the sidewalls, and that will mean it will suck in the rocks. You are going to really need some time in JV to figure out what works.

I've heard 20psi. I cannot run stickies in 4600. We're running 35" Cooper STT Pros. They are in CA now - 10 tires in total! We're built to "bounce" over the rocks more than "crawl" with our Axle/T-Case gear ratios and V8. If we can't make a line with momentum, we'll probably end up winching.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44134680)
Also your crew should have a good ground plane antenna with a 30' or taller pole, 100 watt or better radio, and external speakers to listen for your "hellllllpppp". cries.

Good luck.

Thanks! Still working on the Pit comms. In-car comms are done via Rugged Radios 6100 Race Ready Kit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44134696)
And your crew should have plenty of fire extinguishers. A couple 20lb'rs and several 5's, in addition to what you have on the race pig.

Per KOH rules, we'll have (2) 2.5lb extinguishers on the car - mounted for easy access from inside or out. We'll also have (2) 10lb extinguishers in the pits. These will actually be ordered today and shipped to RockSolidToys for holding till I am in CA next.

Keep the great comments/feedback coming!

Rockcrawlintoy 10-23-2018 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44134660)
Woo hoo! 6,000lb racetruck.

Stock they're between 4300 and 4500lbs.

I dont think 6k lbs is out of the question fully race prepped.

Roc Doc 10-23-2018 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockcrawlintoy (Post 44135416)
I dont think 6k lbs is out of the question fully race prepped.

Maybe not all of 6k, but closer to 6k than 5k IMO.

Roc Doc 10-23-2018 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44135296)
I've heard 20psi. I cannot run stickies in 4600. We're running 35" Cooper STT Pros. They are in CA now - 10 tires in total!

You're going to have to test to see what PSI works. AND you'll have to do some miles to make sure that they still work once they're warmed up. I've never run Coop's, and don't know anyone that has on a race car, so good luck. IMO, tire life has more to do with driver than tire. When I pitted for EZ Rick in 2012 (I think), he went through 9 tires and realistically it cost him the win.

And about that pit radio, you'll want two radios, or at least a dual tuner, so they can monitor the car and race ops for warnings, etc.

Rockcrawlintoy 10-23-2018 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44135452)
Maybe not all of 6k, but closer to 6k than 5k IMO.

would fully agree. I run the coopers on my JK and they work pretty well and I saw a few guys last year running them in the race. I wouldnt have an issue running them if I was racing.

cryptic toy 10-23-2018 10:25 AM

The north jersey jeep club was at my place couple weekends ago and one of the guys had the 37"stt pros. I was some what impressed with them . Was his daily driver so a total thrash was not happening. My thought on the presure is maybe get another tire and start with the presure on the high side and find a rock /ledge to hit and go over . Set up a gopro to record the sidewall flex and drop the presure till it does damge or almost. He was running 12psi no bead locks and they still seemed stiff. As for weight I'm guessing 5850lbs. Another thing do the rules allow you to add a frame stiffner? If a square tube or angle could be put on edge to match the frame control arm to body mount on the side by the vin# . Kind of like a axle truss . This would help with hard wheel hits .

Charles4x4 10-23-2018 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44135482)
You're going to have to test to see what PSI works. AND you'll have to do some miles to make sure that they still work once they're warmed up. I've never run Coop's, and don't know anyone that has on a race car, so good luck. IMO, tire life has more to do with driver than tire. When I pitted for EZ Rick in 2012 (I think), he went through 9 tires and realistically it cost him the win.

And about that pit radio, you'll want two radios, or at least a dual tuner, so they can monitor the car and race ops for warnings, etc.

Good advice. Will do!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockcrawlintoy (Post 44135546)
would fully agree. I run the coopers on my JK and they work pretty well and I saw a few guys last year running them in the race. I wouldnt have an issue running them if I was racing.

I ran 37" STT Pros on my 80 series and they were solid. Certainly all trail riding with the 80, but Cooper has been an amazing sponsor of this build so far and we're going to put them to the test!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic toy (Post 44135560)
The north jersey jeep club was at my place couple weekends ago and one of the guys had the 37"stt pros. I was some what impressed with them . Was his daily driver so a total thrash was not happening. My thought on the presure is maybe get another tire and start with the presure on the high side and find a rock /ledge to hit and go over . Set up a gopro to record the sidewall flex and drop the presure till it does damge or almost. He was running 12psi no bead locks and they still seemed stiff. As for weight I'm guessing 5850lbs. Another thing do the rules allow you to add a frame stiffner? If a square tube or angle could be put on edge to match the frame control arm to body mount on the side by the vin# . Kind of like a axle truss . This would help with hard wheel hits .

Great to hear! They did seem stiffer on my 80 series. We may end up closer to 15-20 PSI. We'll try out multiple pressures during testing later this year.

Maintaining solid control and speed in the desert is a higher priority than traction on the rocks for us.

Charles4x4 10-23-2018 03:18 PM

One more BIG Announcement. And before I disclose, Special Thanks to BigMike at Marlin Crawler for making this one happen for us. Without his support and sponsorship, this simply would not be possible.

I've been holding this one back for a while now...so here goes.

It's both exciting and terrifying to say that our Steel City Racing 4th Gen V8 IFS 4Runner will not only be racing 4600 EMC on Wednesday, but will also be racing in the 4400 Ultra4 Unlimited Class Main Event on Friday!

How?

For 4600 EMC Class, I'll be Driving and a close friend of mine who is a local Fire Fighter in AL will be Co-Driving.

But on Friday, I'll be Co-Driving for Hobie Smith, an OG13, who will be Driving this car on Friday in the 4400 Unlimited Class.

Our goal for 4600 EMC is to Win our class. Our goal for 4400 Unlimited Main Event is to Finish the race. If we can finish both, that would be an amazing win for both our team and our sponsors!

Fortunately this year EMC got pushed back to Wed, so we have all day Thurs to make sure the car is prepped and ready for Friday's Main Event.

I had mentioned a while back that we'd have help testing and preparing for the race. Well, Hobie has graciously agreed to help teach us everything he has learned over the many years he has raced KOH and will also be helping us with testing over the coming months. He's already given us a ton of tips on the overall build, driving style to make sure we survive EMC, pit operations, winching techniques, navigation, etc.

Our sponsors and I are proud to announce Hobie Smith as part of the Steel City Racing team for KOH 2019!

Provience 10-23-2018 03:30 PM

"We have one motto: audacity, audacity, always audacity!" - GEN Patton

hell yeah :smokin:

Roc Doc 10-23-2018 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44136008)
One more BIG Announcement. And before I disclose, Special Thanks to BigMike at Marlin Crawler for making this one happen for us. Without his support and sponsorship, this simply would not be possible.

I've been holding this one back for a while now...so here goes.

It's both exciting and terrifying to say that our Steel City Racing 4th Gen V8 IFS 4Runner will not only be racing 4600 EMC on Wednesday, but will also be racing in the 4400 Ultra4 Unlimited Class Main Event on Friday!

How?

For 4600 EMC Class, I'll be Driving and a close friend of mine who is a local Fire Fighter in AL will be Co-Driving.

But on Friday, I'll be Co-Driving for Hobie Smith, an OG13, who will be Driving this car on Friday in the 4400 Unlimited Class.

Our goal for 4600 EMC is to Win our class. Our goal for 4400 Unlimited Main Event is to Finish the race. If we can finish both, that would be an amazing win for both our team and our sponsors!

Fortunately this year EMC got pushed back to Wed, so we have all day Thurs to make sure the car is prepped and ready for Friday's Main Event.

I had mentioned a while back that we'd have help testing and preparing for the race. Well, Hobie has graciously agreed to help teach us everything he has learned over the many years he has raced KOH and will also be helping us with testing over the coming months. He's already given us a ton of tips on the overall build, driving style to make sure we survive EMC, pit operations, winching techniques, navigation, etc.

Our sponsors and I are proud to announce Hobie Smith as part of the Steel City Racing team for KOH 2019!

Make sure he brings his special banner for your car on Friday.

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/atta...bie-20joke.jpg

Beat95YJ 10-23-2018 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44136256)
Make sure he brings his special banner for your car on Friday.

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/atta...bie-20joke.jpg

:laughing:

Bring a front diff for between races.

Roc Doc 10-23-2018 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44136272)
:laughing:

Bring a front diff for between races.

If by front diff you mean a whole front end, then I agree.

Roc Doc 10-23-2018 06:35 PM

So let's talk about that. What spare parts are you going to have in the pits and what will you have on the car.

hodgiemoto 10-23-2018 09:22 PM

I’d throw on a set of 37s for Friday’s race.

Beat95YJ 10-23-2018 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgiemoto (Post 44136622)
I’d throw on a set of 39’s for Friday’s race.

FIFY

DuckTape 10-23-2018 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44136008)
...


But on Friday, I'll be Co-Driving for Hobie Smith, an OG13, who will be Driving this car on Friday in the 4400 Unlimited Class.

...

Wow, you've done a great job on the sponsor side. Looks like the build will succeed now with this team. Let me know if you need any extra pit help. I'm planning to be there!

-DuckTape

GETTINTHERETOY 10-23-2018 11:02 PM

I have been following this build on IG and here over the last few weeks. Glad to see you partnering with Hobie for the big race. His experience out there will be huge for your team. The last couple of years I have had a hard time getting overly excited about KOH but I'm looking forward to watching you see this though and cheering you on.

Charles4x4 10-24-2018 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgiemoto (Post 44136622)
I’d throw on a set of 37s for Friday’s race.

We actually talked about that a lot. If we do, we'd have to modify so many things for 37s that we'd never been able to run 4600 EMC again. For now, we're sticking with 35s - Suspension will be tuned, Gears are selected, Body is grafted all for 35s.

Believe me, it's very tempting! But the amount of cutting in the rear to fit the 37s would negate our ability to race 4600 EMC again if we chose to do so in future years. Right now my main sponsors just think it'd take too much modification...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckTape (Post 44136738)
Wow, you've done a great job on the sponsor side. Looks like the build will succeed now with this team. Let me know if you need any extra pit help. I'm planning to be there!

-DuckTape

Thanks. We'll need all the help we can get! Find us at the Marlin tent. We'll need help with Pits and also getting the car ready for 4400 Main on Thurs after 4600 EMC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GETTINTHERETOY (Post 44136752)
I have been following this build on IG and here over the last few weeks. Glad to see you partnering with Hobie for the big race. His experience out there will be huge for your team. The last couple of years I have had a hard time getting overly excited about KOH but I'm looking forward to watching you see this though and cheering you on.

Thanks man, it means a lot!

Charles4x4 10-24-2018 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44136306)
So let's talk about that. What spare parts are you going to have in the pits and what will you have on the car.

Good topic to bring up! I haven't had a ton of time to think through all the details, so help me out.

***EDITED***
On Car:
- (1) Spare Tire
- Tire Plug Kit and Onboard Air
- Spare Driveshafts or U-Joints/U-Bolts
- Spare Serpentine Belt
- (1) Spare Braided Fuel Line, (1) Rubber Fuel Line, (1) Brake Line, (1) Air Locker Line Splice
- Various Electrical Connectors, Few Feet of 14-ga Wire, Gorilla/Duct & Electrical Tape, JB Weld, Zip Ties, (1) Extra Tie-Down
- Spare Fuel Pump and 100 micron Filter
- Basic Tools Specific to Car, Hammer, Good Multi-tool
- (2) 2.5lb Fire Extinguishers, Hi-Lift Jack
- HD Garbage Bag, Camelbacks, Light Food, Sunscreen, First Aid Kit, (2) Microfiber Cloths on Retractable Key Chains

In Pits:
- Spare Battery
- Spare Alternator
- Spare Air Filter (will have a pre-filter on for race)
- Spare Fluids (oil, coolant, brake, tranny, diff) and Brake Cleaner
- (3) More Spare Tires and (2) 10lb Fire Extinguishers
- Advanced Tools, 1/2" Cordless Impact, Jack, Jack Stands, etc
- Fuel (22+ Gal)

For Between 4600 and 4400 Races
- Ideally a spare Front Diff with 4.56 Gears and ARB installed, but will need sponsor help to pull this off...

What am I missing? I'll add to this list as feedback comes in and it'll be our list for the race.

OllieNZ 10-24-2018 08:11 AM

Zero experience here so take this fwiw, I'd add an a cordless impact wrench to the car tool kit if there isn't one already cos once shit has been bent and had it's threads peened over on the rocks it's gonna take forever to get undone by hand.

Charles4x4 10-24-2018 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OllieNZ (Post 44137000)
Zero experience here so take this fwiw, I'd add an a cordless impact wrench to the car tool kit if there isn't one already cos once shit has been bent and had it's threads peened over on the rocks it's gonna take forever to get undone by hand.

I've got a Milwaukee Fuel 1/2" Impact. I was planning to have it in the pits for quick tire changes and stubborn bolts though...

OllieNZ 10-24-2018 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44137020)
I've got a Milwaukee Fuel 1/2" Impact. I was planning to have it in the pits for quick tire changes and stubborn bolts though...

Well if it's in the truck then it'll be in the pits any time the truck is ;)

Rockcrawlintoy 10-24-2018 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44137020)
I've got a Milwaukee Fuel 1/2" Impact. I was planning to have it in the pits for quick tire changes and stubborn bolts though...

See if someone else also has one as well. Keep yours in the rig and have one in the pits. Using a tire iron on the race course would suck.

Roc Doc 10-24-2018 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44136944)
Good topic to bring up! I haven't had a ton of time to think through all the details, so help me out.

On Car:
- (1) Spare Tire (per Hobie, we won't be changing tires though)
- Tire Plug Kit and Onboard Air
- Spare Driveshafts
- Spare Serpentine Belt
- Spare Braided Fuel Line, Rubber Fuel Line, Brake Line, Air Locker Line
- Electrical Connectors, Wire, Duct & Electrical Tape, JB Weld
- Spare Fuel Pump and 100 micron Filter
- Spare Air Filter (will have a pre-filter on for race)
- Spare Fluids (oil, coolant, brake, tranny)
- Basic Tools, (2) 2.5lb Fire Extinguishers, Hi-Lift Jack, A few random screws and bolts
- Trash Bag, Food/Water, Sunscreen, First Aid Kit, Extra Tie-Downs, etc

In Pits:
- Spare Battery
- Spare Alternator
- (3) More Spare Tires
- Fuel (22+ Gal) and More Spare Fluids
- (2) 10lb Fire Extinguishers
- Advanced Tools, Jack, Jack Stands, etc
- Ideally a spare Front Diff with 4.56 Gears and ARB installed, but will need sponsor help to pull this off...

What am I missing? I'll add to this list as feedback comes in and it'll be our list for the race.

Zip ties, medium sized and some big ones in case you have to hold back a hose or line.

The best multitool you have ziptied to the roll cage. That should be the first thing your co-dawg should grab when getting out of the car. It will help him loosen shackle for winching, cut stuff, etc.

Can of brake cleaner and some red rags. And a HD garbage bag to put the funked up ones in.

Gorilla tape, not duct tape.

Bailing wire.

I'll think of more later.

Charles4x4 10-24-2018 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockcrawlintoy (Post 44137104)
See if someone else also has one as well. Keep yours in the rig and have one in the pits. Using a tire iron on the race course would suck.

Good Point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44137134)
Zip ties, medium sized and some big ones in case you have to hold back a hose or line.

The best multitool you have ziptied to the roll cage. That should be the first thing your co-dawg should grab when getting out of the car. It will help him loosen shackle for winching, cut stuff, etc.

Can of brake cleaner and some red rags. And a HD garbage bag to put the funked up ones in.

Gorilla tape, not duct tape.

Bailing wire.

Added!

OllieNZ 10-24-2018 10:58 AM

BFH?

Roc Doc 10-24-2018 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OllieNZ (Post 44137354)
BFH?

For sure!

Bones 10-24-2018 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44137134)
Gorilla tape, not duct tape.

Gaffers tape aka "gaff" tape can be even better depending on the solution you are looking for. IMO Gorilla tape is too damn thick and doesn't conform to things that well.

Charles4x4 10-24-2018 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OllieNZ (Post 44137354)
BFH?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44137368)
For sure!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44137392)
Gaffers tape aka "gaff" tape can be even better depending on the solution you are looking for. IMO Gorilla tape is too damn thick and doesn't conform to things that well.

Added.

OllieNZ 10-24-2018 11:36 AM

We're gonna add an extra 1000lbs in tools and spares at this rate :laughing:

Beat95YJ 10-24-2018 11:41 AM

IMO You will not have time to swap the front diff during the 4600 Race. I think you should have a spare housing and ring in pinon in case you have to swap for the 4400 race. You have a couple of days so you could fix whatever’s wrong with an ARB in that time hopefully. I’d also get some extra shafts.

Roc Doc 10-24-2018 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44137392)
Gaffers tape aka "gaff" tape can be even better depending on the solution you are looking for. IMO Gorilla tape is too damn thick and doesn't conform to things that well.

I have used miles and miles of Gaff tape over my career, and I don't agree with you. It doesn't have the holding power of Gorilla or Duct tape. Gaff is used in entertainment production because it doesn't transfer it's adhesive to cables or floors or consoles or whatnot. It's not a high strength tape.

Bones 10-24-2018 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44137476)
I have used miles and miles of Gaff tape over my career, and I don't agree with you. It doesn't have the holding power of Gorilla or Duct tape. Gaff is used in entertainment production because it doesn't transfer it's adhesive to cables or floors or consoles or whatnot. It's not a high strength tape.

I will take your word for it, I have a roll of gorilla tape I avoid using it sucks so bad for holding power and flexibility. Their glue has never performed well for me either. Must be the operator

Roc Doc 10-24-2018 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44137504)
I will take your word for it, I have a roll of gorilla tape I avoid using it sucks so bad for holding power and flexibility. Their glue has never performed well for me either. Must be the operator

I wonder if it's a temperature thing. I've used Gorilla tape with good success out here in the SW, but kinda avoid it or Duct tape just for the residue it leaves behind.

Oh, and OP, you'll want a couple good ratchet straps, not harbor freight.

hurleygo3 10-24-2018 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OllieNZ (Post 44137436)
We're gonna add an extra 1000lbs in tools and spares at this rate :laughing:

This.

Charles4x4 10-24-2018 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44137700)
This.

Added weight is my fear as well at this point. Hurley, what do you carry on the car vs. in the pits?

What would you strike from the list above?

hurleygo3 10-24-2018 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44137830)
Added weight is my fear as well at this point. Hurley, what do you carry on the car vs. in the pits?

What would you strike from the list above?

I like to build a car that doesn't need spares:D

I carry a small bag of tools, basic tools that apply to my car. Only sockets to fit the car. Large zip ties, 1 driveshaft u-joint, U-bolts for the joints, roll of duct tape, electrical tape, -3 cap for brake line, 1 braided line (all lines are the same length) 1 ratchet strap, soft shackle, couple feet 14 gauge wire, few but connectors, ARB splicer, all in a PRP 16"x8" tool bag. 1/2" impact, trailer scissor jack and 50' of winch line, serpentine belt, mounted to the chassis. Camel packs taped to the chassis behind the seats where the pits can get to fill up. Micro cloth for the driver and pass on retractable key chains, and the most important, 2 beers incase you break down.

For the pits its hard to have spares for every pit. The first pit will have fluids, spare tire, fuel and basic tools. Main pit has all the spares. Once you pass main they can move to remote A-B if needed.

Race day make sure you have a piss tube on, start heavy hydration 2 days before. I've never got hungry during a race, but you use a ton of fluid even if it's cold, but most years it's more on the warm side. Biggest mistake I see is people over driving. Everyone thinks they're Robby fucking Gordon and take themselves out of the race in the first 20 miles. Someone catches you, let them by, they're already faster than you. Most of the time you see them on the side of the road 10mins later. Have fun and listen to the car. It'll let you know if you're over driving it.

Charles4x4 10-25-2018 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44137874)
I like to build a car that doesn't need spares:D

I carry a small bag of tools, basic tools that apply to my car. Only sockets to fit the car. Large zip ties, 1 driveshaft u-joint, U-bolts for the joints, roll of duct tape, electrical tape, -3 cap for brake line, 1 braided line (all lines are the same length) 1 ratchet strap, soft shackle, couple feet 14 gauge wire, few but connectors, ARB splicer, all in a PRP 16"x8" tool bag. 1/2" impact, trailer scissor jack and 50' of winch line, serpentine belt, mounted to the chassis. Camel packs taped to the chassis behind the seats where the pits can get to fill up. Micro cloth for the driver and pass on retractable key chains, and the most important, 2 beers incase you break down.

For the pits its hard to have spares for every pit. The first pit will have fluids, spare tire, fuel and basic tools. Main pit has all the spares. Once you pass main they can move to remote A-B if needed.

Race day make sure you have a piss tube on, start heavy hydration 2 days before. I've never got hungry during a race, but you use a ton of fluid even if it's cold, but most years it's more on the warm side. Biggest mistake I see is people over driving. Everyone thinks they're Robby fucking Gordon and take themselves out of the race in the first 20 miles. Someone catches you, let them by, they're already faster than you. Most of the time you see them on the side of the road 10mins later. Have fun and listen to the car. It'll let you know if you're over driving it.

This is the best advice I could possibly ask for.

I actually copied/pasted and sent this to the entire team. Thank you!

Charles4x4 10-25-2018 10:32 AM

4x4Labs is mostly done with our Armor for KOH. The car goes to Marlin Crawler starting tomorrow. The pics below aren't quite Final Product, but they're the latest ones I have and are getting close. 4x4Labs creativity, fab skills, welding, in-house powder coating, and overall attention to detail is Top Notch!

Everything you see below is made from AR400. Can't wait to see them in final form with our F/R Warn winches installed!

Front Bumper:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...52&oe=5C85E6D5

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...6f&oe=5C438A48

Rear Bumper - will eventually have Dual Swing-Outs, but of course won't be installed for KOH:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...2c&oe=5C446790

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...21&oe=5C419872

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...c0&oe=5C841C20

2 of 3 Skid Plates:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...18&oe=5C53A50A

Sliders:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...6a&oe=5C87250A

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...eb&oe=5C4E237E

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b2&oe=5C517EFB

Luke said they had the welder "Dialed In" for our AR400:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...af&oe=5C564EF6

They're wrapping up all the final details today before the trip tomorrow.

Charles4x4 10-29-2018 06:59 AM

On Friday morning the 4Runner left 4x4Labs Shop for good. Luke and the 4x4Labs team were extremely kind to drive the car to Marlin Crawler for me while on their way to LA for the weekend. Thank you again to Luke, HD, and the entire 4x4Labs team for all their hard work over the past month!

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...af&oe=5C4C0556

It arrived safe and sound at Marlin Crawler ready for the next Phase of work!

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b1&oe=5C4966DB

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...9b&oe=5C4364B7

We'll get some better pics of the armor in final form in the coming weeks.

I'm really excited about this next Phase! Stay tuned...

Rockcrawlintoy 10-29-2018 05:34 PM

whats the deal with the swing out hinges?

Bones 10-30-2018 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockcrawlintoy (Post 44145868)
whats the deal with the swing out hinges?

Because after this wins both races, it is going to overland all the way back to Alabama with a roof top tent and trophies!

DirtRoads 10-30-2018 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44146734)
Because after this wins both races, it is going to overland all the way back to Alabama with a roof top tent and trophies!

:laughing::laughing:

jetranger 10-31-2018 10:21 AM

I'm a huge Toyota fan, and huge KOH fan. I'm really excited to see this out there this year.

But, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take those 'halo' ricer headlights out!

Charles4x4 11-05-2018 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockcrawlintoy (Post 44145868)
whats the deal with the swing out hinges?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44146734)
Because after this wins both races, it is going to overland all the way back to Alabama with a roof top tent and trophies!

Too funny. I think Luke just put those on at the last minute so we wouldn't have two giant studs sticking up. We'll remove the swing-out bases before KOH.

After we race KOH, we do plan on adding a tire carrier and ladder (removable) for non-KOH wheeling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetranger (Post 44148714)
I'm a huge Toyota fan, and huge KOH fan. I'm really excited to see this out there this year.

But, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take those 'halo' ricer headlights out!

Thanks - definitely come by Marlin Crawler's tent area and introduce yourself on the lakebed.

Unfortunately the lights are here to stay - some like them, some hate them.
They were put on by the PO along with LED light bar and exhaust tip. They were free and work fine for our purposes - meeting KOH rules. We won't be spending budget $ on differently headlights :).

generalee7 11-10-2018 11:07 AM

Whats the latest? Its at Marlin getting an Atlas installed? :laughing::flipoff2:

the78outlaw 11-10-2018 11:09 AM

50 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by generalee7 (Post 44165520)
Whats the latest? Its at Marlin getting an Atlas installed? :-):-)

HAHAHAHAHA:laughing::laughing: This made my day.

On a more serious note, I honestly was hoping for a few more pics in this thread. But, I guess if you've seen one Atlas installed, you've seen them all. :flipoff2:

Rubirunner85 11-11-2018 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the78outlaw (Post 44165526)
HAHAHAHAHA:laughing::laughing: This made my day.

On a more serious note, I honestly was hoping for a few more pics in this thread. But, I guess if you've seen one Atlas installed, you've seen them all. :flipoff2:

Wonder why he didn’t go to AA for the install?

Charles4x4 11-14-2018 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the78outlaw (Post 44165526)
HAHAHAHAHA:laughing::laughing: This made my day.

On a more serious note, I honestly was hoping for a few more pics in this thread. But, I guess if you've seen one Atlas installed, you've seen them all. :flipoff2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubirunner85 (Post 44166972)
Wonder why he didn’t go to AA for the install?

An update and MORE PICS are coming soon. Quickly, the Atlas II will be installed by RockSolidToys in the batch of work to be completed in Dec.

Also, I'm sure you all are, but please be praying for everyone in CA with all the crazy wildfires. And if you're in CA, know that the rest of us throughout the country are praying for you! The pictures and stories coming out of the affected areas are scary, inspiring, and heroic to say the least.

BigMike told me yesterday that Jesse at High Angle Driveline, who was making our driveshafts for this build, was heavily affected by the fires both personally and professionally. Jesse and the High Angle Driveline team are in our thoughts and prayers!

As I'm sure you can guess, the wildfires are impacting our KOH schedule and we simply hope everyone stays safe in CA. By the time KOH comes along, I hope and pray all of this is far behind us!

dirtyjed 11-14-2018 02:45 PM

Jessies shop burnt to the ground.
You should probably make other plans for drive lines.

hodgiemoto 11-15-2018 09:09 AM

What's Marlin doing on the truck?

Murder Yota 11-15-2018 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgiemoto (Post 44173648)
What's Marlin doing on the truck?

Sounds like they're installing an atlas. Weird huh?

hodgiemoto 11-15-2018 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder Yota (Post 44173678)
Sounds like they're installing an atlas. Weird huh?

Go back and read dummy. Says Rock Solid Toys is installing the atlas. That's why I was wondering what Marlin was doing.

Murder Yota 11-15-2018 09:38 AM

Maybe they're installing some of those cute little shifter knobs.

Mattafact 11-15-2018 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgiemoto (Post 44173648)
What's Marlin doing on the truck?

Waiting for parts to arrive. :flipoff2:

Murder Yota 11-15-2018 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattafact (Post 44173716)
Waiting for parts to arrive. :flipoff2:

Yeah, the little shift knobs are probably back ordered.

Charles4x4 11-16-2018 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtyjed (Post 44172118)
Jessies shop burnt to the ground.
You should probably make other plans for drive lines.

Yes, it was really sad to hear!

DWT 11-17-2018 05:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44146734)
Because after this rig fails to start both races and all the suckers....errrrr I mean sponsors realize they got boned it is going to overland all the way back to Alabama with a roof top tent and tales of epicness to impress the rest of the overland nerds.




I can predict the future so I fixed it...

Murder Yota 11-18-2018 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgiemoto (Post 44173648)
What's Marlin doing on the truck?

Sooo you're not gonna answer the question? must be some classified secret squirrel shit.

Rubirunner85 11-19-2018 12:47 AM

My guess is building the trans.

06 H3 11-19-2018 07:51 AM

How are the fires affecting the koh schedule when marlin is hundreds of miles away from the fire up north and hundreds of miles away from the fire down south?

If it’s drivelines, I would suspect Jess won’t be running again before koh and you just need to order shafts elsewhere which shouldn’t affect the schedule

arickvan 11-19-2018 12:26 PM

waiting for updates...


https://media.giphy.com/media/kK0u4p2GToeOY/giphy.gif

Murder Yota 11-19-2018 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arickvan (Post 44179778)

He's gonna need a flux capacitor pretty soon if he's gonna make it to the lakebed.

Bones 11-19-2018 02:22 PM

Thought December was the start of testing/prerunning

sherm$ 11-19-2018 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWT (Post 44177592)
I can predict the future so I fixed it...

My thought from the get go. Are sponsors generally just a discount or full on freebies in the hopes of advertisement?

Corey Young 11-22-2018 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43977472)


Aiming for testing to start after Thanksgiving, mid-Dec as a back-up. The timeline is touch-and-go given 4-5 critical parts are in "prototype" stage, but I trust my team - they are the best in the business.

So....updates?

Dmtrbrad 11-22-2018 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arickvan (Post 44179778)

The trajectory of this build has seemed to be aimed at KOH 2020 from the get go. I keep looking at it hoping to find the suspension being addressed and all I find is bumper upgrades.

Murder Yota 11-24-2018 08:43 AM

4 or 5 CRITICAL parts are in the prototype stage? are you fucking kidding?

Provience 11-24-2018 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder Yota (Post 44187418)
4 or 5 CRITICAL parts are in the prototype stage? are you fucking kidding?

lots of shit gets prototyped at races, what's the problem with that?

Murder Yota 11-24-2018 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 44187524)
lots of shit gets prototyped at races, what's the problem with that?

Yeah I guess. we're not talking about the Cambells here though, were talking about a first time builder, first time racer. And he's running out of time. And its the Hammers.

SLOWPOKE693 11-24-2018 01:00 PM

I think the lack of response from him lately tells us everything we need to know. This whole thing sounded like a pipe dream from the beginning.


Is he updating his FB page regularly or have the updates over there stopped as well. I'm not joining to find out.....

OllieNZ 11-24-2018 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWPOKE693 (Post 44187646)
I think the lack of response from him lately tells us everything we need to know. This whole thing sounded like a pipe dream from the beginning.


Is he updating his FB page regularly or have the updates over there stopped as well. I'm not joining to find out.....

Nothing new on his FB or IG pages, both last updated 10/26/18

gregj50 11-24-2018 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OllieNZ (Post 44187658)
Nothing new on his FB or IG pages, both last updated 10/26/18



Uh oh.....
No IG or FB posts???
Not a good sign!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SLOWPOKE693 11-24-2018 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregj50 (Post 44187716)
Uh oh.....
No IG or FB posts???
Not a good sign!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope, not at all...... I wonder what his sponsors think about this situation?

Provience 11-24-2018 05:56 PM

so what all is left to be done? basically install the cage work, atlas, some minor suspension stuff and rock the fuck out, right?

dirtyjed 11-25-2018 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 44187892)
so what all is left to be done? basically install the cage work, atlas, some minor suspension stuff and rock the fuck out, right?

RTT, maxtrax, canopy, leds everywhere, in cab fondue maker...

Bones 11-26-2018 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtyjed (Post 44188374)
in cab fondue maker...

Well shiiiit! Added this to my wish list now!

Charles4x4 11-26-2018 07:11 AM

Thanks for all the requests for updates and for all the passion for this build. My sincere apologies for the lack of consistent responses - you'll find out why I stopped giving updates on this phase of the build here soon. Yes, what Marlin is doing is a bit on the "secret" side, so please be patient and you'll soon know why.

As I can tell everyone is really anxious for updates, here are a few small ones:
1) I'm now almost 100% done purchasing things for KOH 2019! I'm now waiting for a few Black Friday things to arrive so I can include pics of the FINAL purchases. Wyatt's garage is packed full of all of the stuff we'll need for the pits that I had shipped straight to CA. Special thanks to Wyatt for allowing me to store tons of parts at your place!

2) KOH 2019 Registration Fees are PAID. It definitely hurt the bank account - fees, insurance, and trackers aren't cheap. I'm still waiting on confirmation for our race number that I requested.

3) Icon is almost done with the Front Coilovers, Rear Shocks, and Rear Coils. Wyatt has been orchestrating this part of the build and we are so thankful for Icon's support! More to come here.

For anyone questioning if this build will be done in time, it ABSOLUTELY will be on the lakebed ready to go in Feb as promised. We've 100% been committed since Day 1.

As mentioned, we did get slowed down by a few shops that are doing specialty work for Marlin in CA having their timelines pushed out (I assume due to the fires, but honestly didn't ask for more details). BigMike and Wyatt (the final 2 shops working on this build) are in constant communication with each other on the build and timeline and both still feel really good about everything.

Once BigMike is done with his work in the next 2-weeks, the truck will go to RockSolidToys sometime right around Dec 7th. Wyatt and team can do the Atlas II, rear suspension, etc in their sleep. The cage will be the final big piece of the puzzle that'll also be done at Wyatt's shop by a specialty cage builder called Otwell Welding and Fabrication who Wyatt highly recommended. Unfortunately Wyatt's timeline has been compressed a little due to the delays, but he has promised to get it done.

I hope to still have a full month (Jan) left for tuning and testing. More updates and pics coming soon.

Charles4x4 11-26-2018 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 44187524)
lots of shit gets prototyped at races, what's the problem with that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 44187892)
so what all is left to be done? basically install the cage work, atlas, some minor suspension stuff and rock the fuck out, right?

Hey, thanks for always standing up for this build - you've been consistently fighting for us since day 1. It is greatly appreciated.

And my apologies again to everyone. I'll certainly take the blame for not giving an interim update. I knew communication during this part of the build would be a struggle (both on build threads and social media) - but I could have done more to keep everyone calm. It's no excuse, but Pirate stopped sending me Notifications on the thread. Given no notifications, I honestly thought everyone was patiently waiting for an update and had no clue that people were posting in the thread... I just had to unsubscribe and resubscribe, so we're good now.

Can't wait to meet everyone in Feb.

Charles4x4 11-26-2018 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtyjed (Post 44172118)
Jessies shop burnt to the ground.
You should probably make other plans for drive lines.

Hey, I saw an encouraging update for High Angle Driveline over the weekend on IG. Looks like they have a new shop or are borrowing one or something? Regardless, it was great news that they are trying their best to figure out how to recover after a huge loss. Determination!

I plan to reach out to Jess later today.

SLOWPOKE693 11-26-2018 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44189612)
Hey, I saw an encouraging update for High Angle Driveline over the weekend on IG. Looks like they have a new shop or are borrowing one or something? Regardless, it was great news that they are trying their best to figure out how to recover after a huge loss. Determination!

I plan to reach out to Jess later today.

I'd feel a little weird hitting up a guy for sponsorship parts right after his entire business burned to the ground. Maybe it's just me though....

Glad to see your back posting. Now hurry up with some pictures! :flipoff2:

Charles4x4 11-26-2018 08:29 AM

We knocked out a lot of finish work on the vehicle wrap last week. Here is the latest.

Side:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...29&oe=5CA31EDA

Rear:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...67&oe=5C79B1E2

Hood:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...2b&oe=5CAE4778

Still doing a few final tweaks...

Bones 11-26-2018 08:53 AM

Can you somehow break up the rear lift gate to add some of the yellow and red?? Always liked that strip/color combo

arickvan 11-26-2018 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44189738)
Can you somehow break up the rear lift gate to add some of the yellow and red?? Always liked that strip/color combo

agreed maybe like a u shape that goes above where the license plate goes

Charles4x4 11-26-2018 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arickvan (Post 44189780)
agreed maybe like a u shape that goes above where the license plate goes

Solid idea. Let me see what my Graphics Designer friend can do.

Also, more good news! Given all the posts about ALL synthetic recovery gear on the rig to keep weight down, I reached out to Bubba Rope a few weeks ago and this morning they agreed to sponsor us. So we're already adding another logo to the wrap as we speak!

We'll be using the Bubba Rope 20' or 30' Power Stretch recovery rope:
https://www.bubbarope.com/jeeps-and-...a-rope-30-foot

And also the Bubba Rope Gator-Jay PRO Synthetic Shackles:
https://www.bubbarope.com/gator-jaws...thetic-shackle

Thanks again for Bubba Rope for being a part of this build!

Roc Doc 11-26-2018 11:52 AM

Can you run legally without the rear gate? It would make access to the spares much easier and would save some weight. Some classes MAKE you remove it so it doesn't start flopping around.

Charles4x4 11-26-2018 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44190116)
Can you run legally without the rear gate? It would make access to the spares much easier and would save some weight. Some classes MAKE you remove it so it doesn't start flopping around.

The liftgate is required for 4600 rules (there were posts on this earlier), but you can cut it way down within the rules.

We'll have our spare just inside it and it'll actually Open/Close to allow us to get stuff out quickly. We'll have all glass/motors, etc removed, but will keep the sheet metal as is. We're hoping after all glass and internals are gone, it won't weigh much, will be functional, and maybe it'll even keep dust down a little.

friggnxj 11-26-2018 11:26 PM

I'm pretty sure the rules are pretty lax when it comes to the rear hatch. Most just have a thin strip that goes across. You may want to rethink an opening lift gate: one nerf to the rear and you may not be able to get that gate open to access your spares. We had functioning doors our first KOH; a couple of rocks later and they wouldnt open. Made getting to the tow strap that was behind the seats a real pain.

Charles4x4 11-27-2018 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by friggnxj (Post 44191318)
I'm pretty sure the rules are pretty lax when it comes to the rear hatch. Most just have a thin strip that goes across. You may want to rethink an opening lift gate: one nerf to the rear and you may not be able to get that gate open to access your spares. We had functioning doors our first KOH; a couple of rocks later and they wouldnt open. Made getting to the tow strap that was behind the seats a real pain.

Solid points! I might need to look into modifying it more when I am in CA next...

Charles4x4 11-27-2018 01:11 PM

Our tires and wheels have arrived. As mentioned, we're running 35" Cooper STT Pros on 17" KMC XD222 Enduro Beadlocks. Can't wait to see how this combination performs at KOH.

Cooper STT Pros (Set 1 of 2):
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b5&oe=5C6A5CD2

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...12&oe=5C7537B0

KMC Beadlocks:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...69&oe=5CA2C282

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...1e&oe=5CB18D39

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...be&oe=5C68D122

Charles4x4 11-27-2018 01:50 PM

And here's our brand new Steel City Racing Logo. We've integrated this into the wrap and may also make a few shirts for the pit crew and team.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...0f&oe=5C733BA8

locrwln 11-28-2018 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by friggnxj (Post 44191318)
I'm pretty sure the rules are pretty lax when it comes to the rear hatch. Most just have a thin strip that goes across. You may want to rethink an opening lift gate: one nerf to the rear and you may not be able to get that gate open to access your spares. We had functioning doors our first KOH; a couple of rocks later and they wouldnt open. Made getting to the tow strap that was behind the seats a real pain.

Not to mention the hatch motors that "close" the rear hatch on a 4th gen 4Runner. I can't imagine those being happy and/or working after the first impact.

Jack

Charles4x4 11-28-2018 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by locrwln (Post 44193314)
Not to mention the hatch motors that "close" the rear hatch on a 4th gen 4Runner. I can't imagine those being happy and/or working after the first impact.

Jack

We already found a way to disable this. When the truck was being torn apart, the battery was disconnected and we had to bypass the electrical system. So we have a quick way to manually unlock it by hand no problem.

Also, everything that needs to be handy (tools, recovery gear, spare parts, etc) will be strapped down in the 2nd row area. That's the benefit of 4-doors.

In reality, the only time we're opening the rear hatch is if we need to change a tire. With plug kits and onboard air, we're hoping this is never. Per Hobie, "We won't be changing tires!" I hope this is the case, but we'll be ready if not.

desertPOS 11-28-2018 09:05 AM

All you need to be within the rules is hinges and a latch - tie them together how you see fit. Rules provide for 'steel tubing' doors, so tie those together with brakeline so you can open and close your 'hatch' for tech. Light weight and simple.

While you're at it, pull all the bullshit plastic and dash shit out and throw it in the trash:homer:

Beat95YJ 11-28-2018 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44193444)
In reality, the only time we're opening the rear hatch is if we need to change a tire. With plug kits and onboard air, we're hoping this is never. Per Hobie, "We won't be changing tires!"

Lol, it’s going to be hilarious when he shreds a tire, drives on it, and destroys those fiberglass fenders.

Charles4x4 11-28-2018 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44193962)
Lol, it’s going to be hilarious when he shreds a tire, drives on it, and destroys those fiberglass fenders.

You may be surprised with my answer, but I'm completely fine if the fiberglass fenders get partially destroyed during the 4600 race. How many Baja 1000 rigs made it through a few weeks ago with all skins in tact...? We're pretty much expecting it...!

If we shred a tire beyond repair, we'll have the onboard spare and multiple additional spares in the pits.

Then we'll come up with an alternative fender option for 4400 (or none :)).

locrwln 11-28-2018 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44193444)
We already found a way to disable this. When the truck was being torn apart, the battery was disconnected and we had to bypass the electrical system. So we have a quick way to manually unlock it by hand no problem.

Gotcha. That was probably wise as that is one complication you just don't need in a race.

Jack

Charles4x4 11-29-2018 09:07 AM

For Navigation, our team did a ton of research ultimately decided to go with LeadNav. Their software seems to really be taking off and it was nice to see how portable and versatile the setup is.

We'll be using LeadNav's app in conjunction with an iPad Air 2 (64GB Wifi + Cellular) per LeadNav's guidance. We installed a screen protector and put the iPad Air 2 in a LifeProof case for added protection during the race.

We'll use Ram Mounts to secure it to the cage at the A Pillar or Windshield bar for the Co-Driver. We also added the optional SkyPro xGPS160 receive to great boost our GPS signal.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b1&oe=5C6F1B71

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e3&oe=5CA5FB3D

Roc Doc 11-29-2018 12:25 PM

You definitely got your own path.

DMG 11-29-2018 12:57 PM

I have offroaded with an iPad in a case supported by Ram mounts. It will flop around like a limp donkey dick when you drop off a rock or hit stuff fast in the desert. You need to attach multiple Ram mounts or find some way to hard mount it.


Also, I want a T shirt. How do I get one?

Charles4x4 11-29-2018 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMG (Post 44196474)
I have offroaded with an iPad in a case supported by Ram mounts. It will flop around like a limp donkey dick when you drop off a rock or hit stuff fast in the desert. You need to attach multiple Ram mounts or find some way to hard mount it.


Also, I want a T shirt. How do I get one?

Yes, I thought this might be the case too. If so, we'll end up making some tabs and hard mount it to the dash or "double" Ram Mount it to two parts of the cage (A-Pillar Vertical and Windshield Horizontal Bars).

I honestly didn't think anyone outside the team would want T-Shirts. It's on my to-do list. Once I get more details, I'll post them on the forum and we'll see if I need to order some extras.

Glad to know there's interest!

Bones 11-29-2018 01:44 PM

Hope you purchased AppleCare

SLOWPOKE693 11-29-2018 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44196582)
Hope you purchased AppleCare

:lmao:

gregj50 11-29-2018 02:23 PM

I’m gonna need a t-shirt!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bones 11-29-2018 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWPOKE693 (Post 44196608)
:lmao:

That was serious......with a hint of sarcasm ;)

hurleygo3 11-29-2018 02:44 PM

I like Leadnav. Just not sure I'd want it as my only setup in the car. The software is far better than the Lowrance. But the whole ipad and cables scare me in the environment we play in.

Roc Doc 12-04-2018 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44196704)
I like Leadnav. Just not sure I'd want it as my only setup in the car. The software is far better than the Lowrance. But the whole ipad and cables scare me in the environment we play in.

Yeah, and iPad seems pretty fragile for all the bouncing and dust and temp swings.

I remember Chris Geiger showing up in 2008 with a Palm Pilot, and being pissy because we didn't have a file for him. :laughing:

Charles4x4 12-06-2018 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44196704)
I like Leadnav. Just not sure I'd want it as my only setup in the car. The software is far better than the Lowrance. But the whole ipad and cables scare me in the environment we play in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44204194)
Yeah, and iPad seems pretty fragile for all the bouncing and dust and temp swings.

I remember Chris Geiger showing up in 2008 with a Palm Pilot, and being pissy because we didn't have a file for him. :laughing:

We'll find out pretty quickly in testing. I know a ton of 4400 guys run LeadNav only, but some (like Shannon Campbell) have it more "hard mounted" or integrated than our mount system will be. Per the review we read on KOH and Baja 500/1000 uses, most have no dust/water/vibration/cable issues and are adamant that after using LeadNav they will never go back to a "fish finder" again.

Also, I'll post a pic of our cables. The LifeProof case came with a water/dust proof Audio connector that takes significant force to pull out and LeadNav makes a Ruggedized Power Cable for the LifeProof case that is a really tight fit. The GPS puck will be Bluetooth (no wires).

Charles4x4 12-06-2018 02:21 PM

There should be more "fabrication oriented" updates with pics coming next week. In the interim, we took full advantage of Black Friday sale and picked up all of our safety gear and the last few comms items we are going to need.

Pre-Wired Impact Helmets:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a4&oe=5CA6BC3C

Head & Neck Restraints, Alpinestars Gloves, Sand Skirts, Final Comms Cables:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...c8&oe=5C6A7CA0

Alpinestars Racing Suits:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...57&oe=5C9B3402

Rugged Radios Handheld - One for the Co-Driver when out of the car and one for close-range communication at the pits:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...9a&oe=5CAE68E0

All in compliance with the new Ultra4 Rules and recent changes.

Speaking of the rules, Air Bumps are now allowed in 4600!!! I guess they felt back surgery after races isn't popular for the 4600 class. Thank you Ultra4 and 2018 4600 Drivers for voting Air Bumps in for our class.

Charles4x4 12-06-2018 02:40 PM

I'm also excited to announce that we'll be sharing a Crew Chief, Pit Operations, and Pit Location with @RustyNailJustin and Team 4619. Justin has been a huge source of advice and wisdom for me since Day 1 of this build and we're honored to be side-by-side with him and his 4619 team at KOH 2019. We'll be pitting somewhere outside the high-dollar, main pit area. :)

My co-driver for 4600 is a Professional Firefighter and EMT, so he, Justin, and the Pit Crew will fit like a glove!

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/atta...lass-image.jpg

Also, while Black Friday was going on, we also snagged a great deal on a Large RV for KOH week through Cruise America:
https://www.cruiseamerica.com/rent/o...-ext-1-300.jpg

Probably not the best RV, but certainly the best value we could find for the week by far.

Finally, we locked down our race number for KOH. We'll be car 4602 for 4600 and 4400. I have 2 awesome girls and 2 awesome chocolate labs, so great things seem to come in 2's for me.

hurleygo3 12-06-2018 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44208478)
We'll find out pretty quickly in testing. I know a ton of 4400 guys run LeadNav only, but some (like Shannon Campbell) have it more "hard mounted" or integrated than our mount system will be. Per the review we read on KOH and Baja 500/1000 uses, most have no dust/water/vibration/cable issues and are adamant that after using LeadNav they will never go back to a "fish finder" again.

Also, I'll post a pic of our cables. The LifeProof case came with a water/dust proof Audio connector that takes significant force to pull out and LeadNav makes a Ruggedized Power Cable for the LifeProof case that is a really tight fit. The GPS puck will be Bluetooth (no wires).

I totally think Leadnav is the best software available. The voice commands are great. But you'll find pretty much every car is also running a Lowrance. That fish finder is built to withstand the elements. IPad, not so much. I just wish Leadnav had a unit like the Lowrance with their software.

Provience 12-06-2018 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44208494)
All in compliance with the new Ultra4 Rules and recent changes.

Speaking of the rules, Air Bumps are now allowed in 4600!!! I guess they felt back surgery after races isn't popular for the 4600 class. Thank you Ultra4 and 2018 4600 Drivers for voting Air Bumps in for our class.

well that's cool :smokin:

Charles4x4 12-06-2018 03:46 PM

Brand new pics of our Gen II Front RCV Ultimate IFS Axle Set. We'll be the first 4th Gen 4Runner to run RCV's Gen II axles. The Gen II set has a ton of enhancements over Gen I.

They are massive and rated for 40's with a Lifetime Warranty. RCV was the only choice for our KOH build and we were really excited when they agreed to allow us to run the first production set of Gen II shafts on our 4602 KOH bound IFS 4Runner.

These fit our 4th Gen 4Runner, but also fit Toyota FJ Cruiser ('07-'14), 4th and 5th Gen 4Runners ('03-Present) & Tacoma ('05-Present).

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ab&oe=5C9D60AE

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...08&oe=5CAADE7D

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...5b&oe=5C9BF31E

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...43&oe=5C6A7563

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...51&oe=5C674494

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e1&oe=5CA5691F

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...1c&oe=5C653B10

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...6c&oe=5C97ADB8

Thank you RCV!

Charles4x4 12-07-2018 10:09 AM

A number of folks have asked for Gen I and Gen II specs for the RCVs, so I wanted to pass the information below along from RCV's lead engineers.

As noted above, we're running the first set of not-yet-released Gen IIs at KOH:

Gen I Toyota axles had the following attributes:

Spherical Dana 60 sized outer CV joint (grease maintenance required)
Spherical outer CV boot
30 spline Porsche 930 inner CV joint capable of 28 degrees of angle (Dana 44 sized)
Dana 44 sized 30 spline to Dana 60 sized 35 spline 4340 center shaft

Gen II Toyota axles have the following attributes:

Dana 60 sized outer CV joint (no maintenance required)
Traditional CV boots on both ends
Dana 60 sized inner double offset CV joint capable of 30 degrees of angle
Dana 60 sized 35 spline to Dana 60 sized 35 spline 300M center shaft

Charles4x4 12-11-2018 06:49 AM

Everyone seems to love LeadNav software, but I've had a few questions about the iPad connections. Here's what we are using:

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...7e&oe=5CB1DAFA

LifeProof Audio Connection (I have to pull hard to get this out):
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...fa&oe=5C968BDE

LeadNav Ruggedized Power Cord:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4f&oe=5CA83371

GPS is connected via Bluetooth. We'll be heat shrinking any connections to these wires. Hopefully these connections will prove strong enough for KOH conditions in testing.

Bones 12-11-2018 07:17 AM

However the iPad/case is mounted be sure to try and incorporate strain relief on the cables so there is no or limited tugging at the actual iPad inputs.

Charles4x4 12-11-2018 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44214696)
However the iPad/case is mounted be sure to try and incorporate strain relief on the cables so there is no or limited tugging at the actual iPad inputs.

Agreed. We'll place some strain relief loops in there similar to our intercom system steering wheel push buttons.

Charles4x4 12-13-2018 10:19 AM

I was able to trade emails with LeadNav's Founder and CEO yesterday and wanted to pass along some feedback:

- LeadNav currently has 20,000 Users. The top trained users are to include Rob Mac and a number of others winning that solely run LEADNAV.

- LeadNav and a tablet running with the recommended package and LeadNav training will absolutely dominate any Lowrance in capability, dependability and realizability. A Lowrance has open internal chipsets while the iPad is solid state. We run these comparisons in class.

- The package recommended for performing is our Pro package running a iPad Pro 10.5. (Note: this is $4K and not what we're running, but obviously would be the ultimate setup if someone could afford it).

- If you were worried about sagging you could direct dash mount our pro exo case n docking cradle. However we run these heavier combos on the same ram arms as well and they are fine when secured with the correct components and brackets. Do not run the wrong RAM diameter ball arms. (Note: we're running all C Ball arms for a 1.5" - 2.5" Cage)

- All failure's we've heard of stem from a lack of understanding or utilization of the recommended packages 99.9% of the time. 99.9% of all issues we hear or see are user error...

- We train folks...and they win desert races. We also had the top 7 finishers of KOH running LeadNav.

Of course, this is all from LeadNav, so take it for what's it worth. Anyway, enough about Navigation :).

More fab work is yet to come!

SLOWPOKE693 12-13-2018 10:23 AM

Is this thing any closer to being done? January is right around the corner......

Charles4x4 12-13-2018 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWPOKE693 (Post 44218640)
Is this thing any closer to being done? January is right around the corner......

Yes, a ton of progress has been made over the past 1.5 Months! I promise you'll know much more soon. And we have another big milestone in the build coming up next week. My apologies again that this portion of the build has been so quiet.

Also, know that we will be wrapping things up in early/mid January now, not in Dec as originally planned. Our timeline for testing at the end has compressed. We still feel really good about the timeline including hopefully adequate testing time. And we feel great about the build overall.

Roc Doc 12-13-2018 10:32 PM

Those RCV's are pimp, but I still think the weak link is going to be the steering rack. Any plans to beef it up?

the_white_shadow 12-14-2018 06:46 AM

marlin has a new fancy steering rack for tacomas. Maybe you can retrofit it on the 4runner. Oh and your lack of updates has to be concerning for your numerous sponsors.I see a lot of talk, but little else. Its not like Wyatt or Marlin is re-inventing the wheel with this build so post up some build pics.

Bailey925 12-14-2018 08:14 AM

At the last KOH I mounted my iPad in my 4Runner and it shut down do too heat. I don’t have AC and it was mounted halfway above the dash where the sun was hitting the back of it. Just something to keep in mind when you mount it. Nice build can’t wait to see it on the lake bed.

Charles4x4 12-14-2018 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bailey925 (Post 44220128)
At the last KOH I mounted my iPad in my 4Runner and it shut down do too heat. I don’t have AC and it was mounted halfway above the dash where the sun was hitting the back of it. Just something to keep in mind when you mount it. Nice build can’t wait to see it on the lake bed.

Perfect, thanks for the great advice. We should have plenty of "air flow" :).

Charles4x4 12-14-2018 09:54 AM

Quick update from Marlin Crawler's shop. The front Nitro 4.56 Gears and ARB Air Locker are in!

Buggie of Parts:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...92&oe=5C9AE0EB

Tear-Down Pics:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b4&oe=5C9D4A13

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e1&oe=5C9869ED

New Nitro Gears and ARB Air Locker Install:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...5c&oe=5C918994

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...59&oe=5C93E09F

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...18&oe=5C91180C
@BigMike also had the team upgrade us to a Marlin Crawler Solid Spacer for better pinion strength.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...2b&oe=5CA23BA7

More updates coming soon.

Charles4x4 12-19-2018 02:51 PM

Update:
1) The Front Diff is Done. This included Nitro 4.56 Gears, Front ARB Air Locker, and other various Marlin Crawler Internal Upgrades:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a5&oe=5CD610BE

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...3b&oe=5CD8135A

2) Our Icon 2.5" Front Coilovers (with Remote Reservoir and Adjustments), Front 2.5" Air Bumps/Mounts, 2.5" Diameter 12" Travel Rear Shocks (with Remote Reservoir and Adjustments), and Rear 2.5" Air Bumps/Mounts are in hand:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...09&oe=5C96979C

http://iconvehicledynamics.com/shop/...ilover-kit.jpg

3) I spoke with LeadNav again and Damian convinced me to spend a bit more and swap from the iPad Air 2 (3 Core A8X Processor) to an iPad Pro 10.5 (4 Core A10X Processor). Otherwise he feared that we would experience Lag or System Reboot issues during the race. So I returned the iPad Air 2 and LifeProof case and picked up a iPad Pro 10.5, LifeProof case, and Screen Protector. We definitely didn't have the budget for a new Pro 10.5, so a refurb will have to work (the one I got had really high reviews and a 90-day warranty).
https://icdn3.digitaltrends.com/imag...01-720x720.jpg

4) We had another call with our Wrap company - SoCal Exotic Wraps - and finalized all of the details for the design, wrap, logos, etc. It'll take us 2-3 days to complete the wrap the week before KOH.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...88&oe=5CA0C8C2

5) I can't remember if I've already covered this one, but I worked with Aeromotive to eliminate any potential fuel starvation issues by integrating their new Jet Siphon technology from their Apex Phantom kit into our Phantom 200. We'll now have fuel pick-up at the Front and Rear of the fuel cell. I'll be installing this and a ton of other small things when I am in CA in January giving the team a hand.
https://www.speednik.com/files/2018/...37-960x921.jpg

With 44-Days till KOH, we still feel good about our timeline. Given various delays, we'll likely now only have 1-week or so for testing and tuning before the race. But it will be done and will be ready to race! I've learned that every small delay definitely adds up. It's not ideal, but that's racing!

I'm really thankful that our core team is so close. Many of the key players are also great friends. We all communicate multiple times a day and work together really well to solve issues as a team.

The final handoff to RockSolidToys (Atlas II, Rear Suspension, Driveshafts, and Other Small Items) and Otwell Fabrication (Cage) is now set in stone for this weekend!

joe_dirte 12-19-2018 06:41 PM

been checking in on this regularly - big props for writing thoughtful and cohesive replies etc.

good luck!

warren 12-20-2018 04:20 AM

Did you look into plating and or reinforcing the front diff mounts? I know I heard of them failing on FJ Cruisers that wheel hard. I have yet to break one on my 4th gen 4runner but have been looking into the idea of plating it for strength.

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showthread.php?p=40471

Charles4x4 12-20-2018 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_dirte (Post 44228334)
been checking in on this regularly - big props for writing thoughtful and cohesive replies etc.

good luck!

Thanks, much appreciated. Everyone on Pirate has been extremely helpful in this build thread, so big props to all of you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by warren (Post 44228928)
Did you look into plating and or reinforcing the front diff mounts? I know I heard of them failing on FJ Cruisers that wheel hard. I have yet to break one on my 4th gen 4runner but have been looking into the idea of plating it for strength.

Kurtfab diff bracket - Toyota 120 Platforms Forum

Yes, we'll dive into more details on all the changes we're making to the front end shortly.

Charles4x4 12-20-2018 05:38 PM

Updated renderings with ALL of our sponsors finally included!

Side View:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...9e&oe=5C9132FC

Rear View:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d6&oe=5C97758E

Hood:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...35&oe=5C9CFEA8

Roof (for Aerial shots):
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...9b&oe=5CA42DA6

Hope everyone likes it. It's pretty close to being 100% locked in at this point.

Thanks again to all of our amazing sponsors!

succubusjuice16 12-21-2018 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44227950)
Update:

The final handoff to RockSolidToys (Atlas II, Rear Suspension, Driveshafts, and Other Small Items) and Otwell Fabrication (Cage) is now set in stone for this weekend!

Been following along with many others- Congrats on all of the progress up to this point, its definitely not an easy task.

after the handoff to RockSolidToys, what else is on the To-Do list?

also curious as to what you believe to be the weak points of this build and what you anticipate as a possible failure during testing/ race day?

Charles4x4 12-21-2018 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by succubusjuice16 (Post 44231138)
Been following along with many others- Congrats on all of the progress up to this point, its definitely not an easy task.

after the handoff to RockSolidToys, what else is on the To-Do list?

also curious as to what you believe to be the weak points of this build and what you anticipate as a possible failure during testing/ race day?

Thanks, and the congrats will be much more deserved when we get to the finish line of the build and starting line of the race!

Great question - and a great excuse for me to document the remaining To-Do's as well. After the handoff this weekend, we still need to:

RockSolidToys:
1) Mount the Atlas II including a "flexible" crossmember

2) Install the Rear RockSolidToys 4-Link Suspension, Currie RockJoc 60, Rear Icon Suspension, and Currie AntiRock Sway Bar:
A) All rear suspension brackets, links, joints, shocks, air bumps, and sway bar are all in hand.
B) Cycle suspension and take measurements for Icon Rear Coils. Install Icon Rear Coils and Brake Lines.
C) Cut rear fenders as needed. Install U-Joint Shields, ARB Air Compressor for Lockers (F/R), and PowerTank. Reinstall the 4x4Labs Skid Plates. Run final exhaust routing out both sides of the 4x4Labs Rear Bumper.

3) Take final Front & Rear Suspension Measurements for High Angle Driveline Driveshafts. Install driveshafts later upon receipt.

RockSolidToys and Otwell Welding & Fabrication:
4) Remove the sunroof and replace with sheet metal. Remove all glass (windshield, doors, lift gate).

5) Build the cage! This is A Top Priority given it may be really time consuming and it ties together so many parts of the build. Otwell has a 3-page overview that Wyatt and I put together to make sure we don't miss something.

6) Once the cage is done, we'll re-mount the PRP Seats, PRP Harnesses, Navigation (iPad Pro 10.5 w/ Leadnav), Jaz Fuel Cell, Rugged Radios Air Pumper, mount the 35" STT Pro Spare in the Cargo Area, install Fire Extinguishers (3 in car), and possibly re-mount the Odyssey Extreme Battery in the Cargo Rear.

7) Add Fuel Cell Firewall behind the passenger seat, re-route Fuel Supply and Return lines, add Fuel Filler Hose and Locking Cap (filled from outside lift-gate - in hand today), and Fuel Splash Guard.

Me and RockSolidToys:
8) Install PRP Safety Nets (2), Wire Warn Winches (2 for Front and Rear), Install new Aeromotive Jet Siphon and re-pack Alletch Baffles, Mount final STT Pro Spare Tires to KMC Beadlock Wheels (all in hand today).

ALL in Johnson Valley:
9) Testing & Shock Tuning, Revise as needed!

Me and the Race/Pit Team On Site and just Days Before KOH:
10) Get all the small stuff ready:
A) On-Vehicle Spare Parts & Tools (list posted a few weeks back)
B) Driver/Co-Driver Water/Food/First Aid/Trash Bags/Break-Down Triangles, Rugged Radios Intercom Stuff, Co-Driver Handheld, etc
C) Pits Spare Parts, Spare Tires, Fuel, Fire Extinguishers, Tools, Tarps
D) Safety Equipment (helmets, gloves, fire suits, head & neck restraints)
E) Install 4602 Number Plates (I haven't even thought through this one yet)
F) Pick up my Co-Driver, get our Pits setup with @rustynailsjustin and our Collective Pit Crew, get the RV and Rental Car setup, Attend Drivers Meetings, have fun, etc.

Pass Tech. Qualify (if we need to?). Race!

Then fix stuff from 4600 and get ready for 4400. Race Again (hopefully)!

Find a way to get back home... I'm sure I missed a few small items, but this is pretty much it. Per Wyatt, the Cage is definitely the most time consuming item left. 42-Days Left!

65Chevy4x4 12-21-2018 01:16 PM

I wish you luck. It sounds like you have all of the fab work, prep, and some drivetrain still to do. It's taken what 5 Months to do some bumpers, skid plates, and order parts. You have the bulk of work still to do.

Hopefully you get it done and tested. Would hate to see something very small take you out of the race because you had no time to test.

Charles4x4 12-21-2018 01:16 PM

I'm also proud to announce that we'll be running an Odyssey Extreme Battery in our 4602 Steel City Racing car.

The guys on my team who truly know batteries have said all along that the Odyssey Extreme Series is the best battery out there. Here's what we'll be using from Odyssey:

Odyssey Extreme 34R-PC1500T Battery:
https://cdn.shptrn.com/media/mfg/745...jpg?1465419048

Odyssey Hold-Down Kit:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....rL._SX425_.jpg

Odyssey 12amp Battery Charger:
https://cdn.shptrn.com/media/mfg/745...jpg?1526701648

We're proud that Odyssey has agreed to partner with our team on this King of the Hammers build. Thanks again to all our sponsors!

hodgiemoto 12-21-2018 01:25 PM

Wow it's gettting close! Hope everything comes together for you guys. Me and some buddies will be there, we will definately come by and check out the rig and offer up some encouragement. Post up where your pit location is. Us outlaw Yota guys gotta stick together.

Charles4x4 12-21-2018 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65Chevy4x4 (Post 44231374)
I wish you luck. It sounds like you have all of the fab work, prep, and some drivetrain still to do. It's taken what 5 Months to do some bumpers, skid plates, and order parts. You have the bulk of work still to do.

Hopefully you get it done and tested. Would hate to see something very small take you out of the race because you had no time to test.

I'd guess that 40% of the Fab Work is done. A lot has been done in Nov/Dec that will be disclosed later on.

Also, the small stuff takes its toll at the end - which is all mandatory for passing Tech. I know it's small stuff, but we did all of that at the beginning.

But Yes, to your point, 60% of Fab Work, 70% of Drivetrain, 10% of Small Stuff, 100% of Prep, and 100% of Testing/Tuning/Revision is all left to do over the next 42 days.

RockSolidToys and Otwell still feel good about the timeline, but will definitely be busting it to get it all done! I'll be helping wherever I can once they get to a point where multi-tasking is possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgiemoto (Post 44231396)
Wow it's gettting close! Hope everything comes together for you guys. Me and some buddies will be there, we will definately come by and check out the rig and offer up some encouragement. Post up where your pit location is. Us outlaw Yota guys gotta stick together.

Thanks man!

Charles4x4 12-21-2018 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warren (Post 44228928)
Did you look into plating and or reinforcing the front diff mounts? I know I heard of them failing on FJ Cruisers that wheel hard. I have yet to break one on my 4th gen 4runner but have been looking into the idea of plating it for strength.

Kurtfab diff bracket - Toyota 120 Platforms Forum

Hey, I dug deeper into this yesterday and passed your advice along to the team. Seems like the '06+ and V8 model front diff mount are stronger than most. But, this is KOH, so we have to make sure we eliminate as many potential weak links as possible.

So, thanks to your advice, as of last night our front diff mounts are fully plated and reinforced, just in case!

Thanks again and keep the great advice coming!

Roc Doc 12-31-2018 03:39 PM

Well I guess it's time for this;


Charles4x4 12-31-2018 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44243766)
Well I guess it's time for this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsnFZDdG5bo

LMAO! :laughing:

Charles4x4 12-31-2018 04:10 PM

Small Update:
- We ran into a few more 1-2 day delays over the past 2-weeks, but pushed through all of them - not without a good dose of stress and a few team problem-solving calls.
- The team worked on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Years Eve, and plans to do some work tomorrow on New Years Day - they are Dedicated!
- Yes, we are now even tighter on the timeline, but our team is 100% confident we'll get everything done.
- The pressure is now on for both Robert Otwell and Wyatt Scott, who both fortunately seem to enjoy that position and are excited to be the "Closers" on this project!
- We also made a change on the rear axle that we'll discuss later on.

New Timeline:
- Right now we're targeting having all fab work completed by 1/25
- We'll then spend that next weekend (1/26-1/27) doing the final small stuff
- We'll plan to do some on-site testing the week of 1/28 (Otwell's shop is 30-mins from the lakebed). Note that our Icon Front Coilovers and Rear Shocks all have CDCV equipped for quick external tunability of the shocks.
- If testing all goes well, we'll get the wrap done later that week (takes 3-days).
- We aim to be on the lakebed by 2/2 or 2/3 if at all possible!

I hope to be able to post more pics soon!

friggnxj 12-31-2018 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44243766)
Well I guess it's time for this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsnFZDdG5bo

Classic

friggnxj 12-31-2018 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44243828)
Small Update:
- We ran into a few more 1-2 day delays over the past 2-weeks, but pushed through all of them - not without a good dose of stress and a few team problem-solving calls.
- The team worked on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Years Eve, and plans to do some work tomorrow on New Years Day - they are Dedicated!
- Yes, we are now even tighter on the timeline, but our team is 100% confident we'll get everything done.
- The pressure is now on for both Robert Otwell and Wyatt Scott, who both fortunately seem to enjoy that position and are excited to be the "Closers" on this project!
- We also made a change on the rear axle that we'll discuss later on.

New Timeline:
- Right now we're targeting having all fab work completed by 1/25
- We'll then spend that next weekend (1/26-1/27) doing the final small stuff
- We'll plan to do some on-site testing the week of 1/28 (Otwell's shop is 30-mins from the lakebed). Note that our Icon Front Coilovers and Rear Shocks all have CDCV equipped for quick external tunability of the shocks.
- If testing all goes well, we'll get the wrap done later that week (takes 3-days).
- We aim to be on the lakebed by 2/2 or 2/3 if at all possible!

I hope to be able to post more pics soon!

That's a tight timeline! I'm just doing maintenance stuff on the car this year, and I'm already feeling the pressure.

I hope you got the rule book printed out and checking off everything needed as you go. It's going to be the small things that end up being the timeline killers.

What day do you tech? and how much time do you plan on tuning/pre-running? Time flies once down on the lake bed, and a minor set-back can eat up a large chunk of time.

Good luck. I hope you have Redbull/Monster/Insert energy drink name here sponsoring you guys, cause you're going to need all the energy you can get.

Provience 12-31-2018 05:22 PM

3 days for the wrap? Daaang! might need to just whip out some spray paint and vinyl stickers to get it to the race, wrap that fucker after tech/tune/pre-run/race is over

Rockcrawlintoy 12-31-2018 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 44243922)
3 days for the wrap? Daaang! might need to just whip out some spray paint and vinyl stickers to get it to the race, wrap that fucker after tech/tune/pre-run/race is over

I would forgo a wrap for 3 days of tuning and seat time. I would put sponsor stickers on instead.

the78outlaw 12-31-2018 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by friggnxj (Post 44243830)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44243766)
Well I guess it's time for this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsnFZDdG5bo

Classic

I've been waiting for someone to dig this up. Brings back memories for sure.

gregj50 12-31-2018 06:44 PM

You trying for the dramatic movie ending aren’t you!!!!
Holy shit man!!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

coilcj 01-02-2019 01:45 PM

Truly hope you guys make it as I love the idea of this vehicle for a 4600 but honestly your time line is tight, like crazy tight, like I would be pounding Tums hourly if I were in your shoes tight.

You might want to consider the option of stickering your vehicle vs the wrap to save 3 days, only as a back up. If push comes to shove and you need more shake down time being able to slap stickers on might save you. I am sure your sponsors would rather have you out there race day with stickers vs missing the race but having a badass wrap. Just my $0.02. Good luck!

Charles4x4 01-02-2019 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provience (Post 44243922)
3 days for the wrap? Daaang! might need to just whip out some spray paint and vinyl stickers to get it to the race, wrap that fucker after tech/tune/pre-run/race is over

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockcrawlintoy (Post 44243994)
I would forgo a wrap for 3 days of tuning and seat time. I would put sponsor stickers on instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregj50 (Post 44244050)
You trying for the dramatic movie ending aren’t you!!!!
Holy shit man!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by coilcj (Post 44246316)
Truly hope you guys make it as I love the idea of this vehicle for a 4600 but honestly your time line is tight, like crazy tight, like I would be pounding Tums hourly if I were in your shoes tight.

You might want to consider the option of stickering your vehicle vs the wrap to save 3 days, only as a back up. If push comes to shove and you need more shake down time being able to slap stickers on might save you. I am sure your sponsors would rather have you out there race day with stickers vs missing the race but having a badass wrap. Just my $0.02. Good luck!

Thanks everyone. I took everyone’s advice and got the wrap company down to 2-days and our timeline still works to have a solid wrap that matches the rendering as of now. If something goes wrong, he’s also willing to come to the shop to install to save us a trip. And We’ll have stickers for worst case scenario.

Also my co-driver and I had our first prep call with our Crew Chief that Justin is allowing us to share with him tonight - he’s solid and we’re blessed to have him!

As always, more to come soon.

crowbar7 01-02-2019 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 43927004)

Our plan is to have an amazingly well built, one of a kind, revolutionary 4th Gen IFS Based 4Runner ready for testing in Johnson Valley by Thanksgiving, or Christmas at the latest. That should give us 1-2 months for acclimation to the desert and Hammers trails, on location testing, custom suspension tuning, and weak-link identifying – we will not be showing up 1-2 weeks before the race having just completed the vehicle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44243828)
Small Update:

New Timeline:
- Right now we're targeting having all fab work completed by 1/25
- We'll then spend that next weekend (1/26-1/27) doing the final small stuff
- We'll plan to do some on-site testing the week of 1/28 (Otwell's shop is 30-mins from the lakebed). Note that our Icon Front Coilovers and Rear Shocks all have CDCV equipped for quick external tunability of the shocks.
- If testing all goes well, we'll get the wrap done later that week (takes 3-days).
- We aim to be on the lakebed by 2/2 or 2/3 if at all possible!

Not to be a total asshole but I thought your first plan was bad. Your latest is well....you're fucked. But I will be looking for you out there.

Beat95YJ 01-02-2019 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crowbar7 (Post 44247140)
Not to be a total asshole but I thought your first plan was bad. Your latest is well....you're fucked. But I will be looking for you out there.

And overweight uncompetitively geared car without prep? I’m thinking they make it 20 to 40 miles.

coilcj 01-03-2019 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44247258)
And overweight uncompetitively geared car without prep? I’m thinking they make it 20 to 40 miles.

First lap is mostly desert and what, 50 miles? I think they'll make it that far as long as they don't go all Ricky Bobby on the skinny pedal. As for the rocks, well, "yard sale trail tampon" comes to mind.

Now will they make it farther then the Arclight Fab (that ridiculous TV show not the plasma company) car from last year???????

Bones 01-03-2019 06:30 AM

Who is starting the mileage DNF poll? 10? mile increments?

gnob 01-03-2019 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44247478)
Who is starting the mileage DNF poll? 10? mile increments?

Damn son, you must have gotten up on the sunny side of the bed. Figured you'd go straight for the throat with a DNS bet. :flipoff2:

Bones 01-03-2019 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnob (Post 44247546)
Damn son, you must have gotten up on the sunny side of the bed. Figured you'd go straight for the throat with a DNS bet. :flipoff2:

:laughing: I have held back and tried to be nicer as this build went on. I think it will make the race start, I do not think it will make it that far. 50 miles??....nope

hurleygo3 01-03-2019 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coilcj (Post 44247474)
First lap is mostly desert and what, 50 miles? I think they'll make it that far as long as they don't go all Ricky Bobby on the skinny pedal. As for the rocks, well, "yard sale trail tampon" comes to mind.

Now will they make it farther then the Arclight Fab (that ridiculous TV show not the plasma company) car from last year???????

First lap is 91.8 miles.

coilcj 01-03-2019 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44247816)
First lap is 91.8 miles.

Guess from my couch and TV it seems a lot shorter! :homer:

With that said lets set the over/under on 20.31 miles (cause it needs to be a weird number). Honestly I will take the over, but not by much

Provience 01-03-2019 12:50 PM

I don't know how the course is laid out for 4600, but i'll take DNF due to time and not broken parts with the final lap being started :rasta:

Beat95YJ 01-03-2019 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44247478)
Who is starting the mileage DNF poll? 10? mile increments?

Put in in my Dnf/dns thread. I should have posted my comment there as well.

hurleygo3 01-03-2019 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coilcj (Post 44248040)
Guess from my couch and TV it seems a lot shorter! :homer:

Pit Summary Ultra4 Races
Lap 1 - 91.8 Miles
Remote Pit 1 1st time = 17.4 miles
Remote Pit 1 2nd time = 56.1 miles
Remote Pit 1 to Main Pit = 18.3 miles


Lap 2 Ultra4 - 74.1 Miles
Start to Remote Pit 2A = 11.9 miles
Remote Pit 2A to 2B = 19.1 miles
Remote Pit 2B to Main = 43.1 miles


Lap 3 Ultra4 – 4400 Only - 76.6 Miles
Start to Remote Pit 2A = 11.9 miles
Remote Pit 2A to 2B = 20.2 miles
Remote Pit 2B to 2A = 17.5 miles
Remote Pit 2A to Finish = 27 miles

UTV and EMC Total – 165.9
Ultra4 Total – 242.5

06 H3 01-03-2019 06:42 PM

I wonder how his sponsors will feel with a no show

SLOWPOKE693 01-03-2019 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 06 H3 (Post 44248572)
I wonder how his sponsors will feel with a no show

I bet he shows up. Very unprepared, but on the lake bed. My next bet is: He pulls off early in the first lap with "issues" so as to not damage his race prepped and sponsored weekend overlanding/ impress your buddies rig. :shaking:

Charles4x4 01-04-2019 02:48 PM

It's a privilege to have a legend, Marlin himself, dropping off our 4Runner at Otwell Welding and Fabrication. Here is Marlin with Robert Otwell in the Lucerne Valley.

A huge thanks to Big Mike and Marlin himself at Marlin Crawler and to Wyatt at RockSolidToys for partnering with us on this adventure and for introducing us to Robert Otwell who is leading the charge on our Cage build!

We have some HUGE 2" DOM going into the 4Runner as we speak! I also heard that Robert and Wyatt had a blast kicking out the windshield this morning!

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...24&oe=5CD7C2E7

Also, we had a few more sponsors join the build (Welcome!), so a new side rendering with revised logos is warranted. Hopefully this is the final version that we'll use for the wrap!

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...65&oe=5CC2936A

Given our timeline, our #1 priority is simply getting the work done right. Snagging in-process build pics is far down the list, so please continue to be patient with us and I'll try my best to post anything the team has time to send.

Provience 01-04-2019 03:49 PM

sweet :smokin:

Charles4x4 01-05-2019 06:05 AM

Proud to have two of the best closers in the business - Wyatt with RockSolidToys and Robert with Otwell Welding and Fabrication - closing out the fabrication part of our build over the next few weeks.

Robert and Wyatt, thanks for being a huge part of our SteelCityRacing team!

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...cc&oe=5CCA993D

Beat95YJ 01-05-2019 05:15 PM

1 Attachment(s)
:flipoff2:

cruisermattfj62 01-05-2019 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44251776)
:flipoff2:


Fixed it for you


https://i.imgflip.com/2qgrkg.jpg

Charles4x4 01-06-2019 11:56 AM

So far I've been 100% focused on making sure the team and I have everything we need to complete the build and get us to the starting line. As of today, the only logistical item I have left is how we get the 4Runner back home to AL once the race is done.

We have no idea what condition it'll be in after we race 4600 AND hopefully 4400. And I'm also a bit torn about even bringing it back to AL since I'd love to run the Mint 400 and Baja 1000 in it this year, if by some miracle those opportunities present themselves...!

For now, if YOU know of anyone racing KOH 2019 from the Southeast who will have a trailer big enough to carry another vehicle, please PM me. I'd love to split gas/travel costs with someone and lock in a way to get it home.

Once we get somewhere within the Southeastern US, I have family with a trailer that can help me get it the last leg of the journey. Someone racing from GA/TN/MS would be ideal as our house is only 10-mins from I-20.

The rig is idle today - the day of rest! Otwell felt great about his progress on the cage when he finally stopped late last night. We'll have more to share early next week.

YotaAtieToo 01-06-2019 12:36 PM

Post an ad in the hauling section.

There is a fair chance someone is hauling a rig to be sold at koh and will have an empty trailer on the way home

Mattafact 01-06-2019 03:50 PM

Just drive it back. Between the piss poor gearing for racing and your giant overland bumpers it was built to drive long distance. Maybe you can do the Mojave rd and Moab on your way back and post it all up on expedition portal. I'm sure a roof top tent will be easy to mount on the lake bed.

Josh40601 01-07-2019 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattafact (Post 44252888)
Just drive it back. Between the piss poor gearing for racing and your giant overland bumpers it was built to drive long distance. Maybe you can do the Mojave rd and Moab on your way back and post it all up on expedition portal. I'm sure a roof top tent will be easy to mount on the lake bed.

:lmao: This site still never seizes to entertain me :laughing:

coilcj 01-07-2019 03:00 PM

Stupid logistical question, coming from a rock crawling back ground that in comparison was WAY simpler logistically, if you need someone to tow your rig back home after the race how are you getting all your spares/tools/equipment/prerunner/fuelcans/etc home after the race? Asking for a friend

Charles4x4 01-08-2019 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44252654)
Post an ad in the hauling section.

There is a fair chance someone is hauling a rig to be sold at koh and will have an empty trailer on the way home

Good suggestion! Done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coilcj (Post 44254742)
Stupid logistical question, coming from a rock crawling back ground that in comparison was WAY simpler logistically, if you need someone to tow your rig back home after the race how are you getting all your spares/tools/equipment/prerunner/fuelcans/etc home after the race? Asking for a friend

Not sure if it's the right way, but I was planning on throwing a ton of it in the truck. Spares would be strapped down on the trailer (likely under the rig). So Inside Truck + On Trailer is the idea for now...

DWT 01-08-2019 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattafact (Post 44252888)
Just drive it back. Between the piss poor gearing for racing and your giant overland bumpers it was built to drive long distance. Maybe you can do the Mojave rd and Moab on your way back and post it all up on expedition portal. I'm sure a roof top tent will be easy to mount on the lake bed.

Called that weeks ago, thanks for playing. :flipoff2:

Charles4x4 01-08-2019 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWPOKE693 (Post 44248852)
My next bet is: He pulls off early in the first lap with "issues" so as to not damage his race prepped and sponsored weekend overlanding/ impress your buddies rig. :shaking:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattafact (Post 44252888)
Just drive it back. Between the piss poor gearing for racing and your giant overland bumpers it was built to drive long distance. Maybe you can do the Mojave rd and Moab on your way back and post it all up on expedition portal. I'm sure a roof top tent will be easy to mount on the lake bed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWT (Post 44256214)
Called that weeks ago, thanks for playing. :flipoff2:

While you guys are busy revealing your secret fantasy for overlanding rigs, we're busy building our cage. A, B, and D pillars are now set and we've mostly locked in our seat placement.

Once Otwell gives me the green light that he likes how it's all coming together, I'll begin posting some pics. Right now the only pics I have are rough ones where we were debating placement options. He's working on the Dash/Windshield bars now. The cargo area will come later and is going to be "complex" with the spare tire, spare parts, fuel cell, fuel cell firewall, filler hose setup, etc.

Wyatt and his team are back in the Lucerne Valley at Otwell's shop later this week working on the Atlas II and getting everything ready for the Rear Suspension. I hinted at this earlier, but we decided to make a change on the rear axle. We're now going with a Dynatrac ProRock 60 - Dynatrac has been really great to work with on this build and Wyatt has developed a great relationship with them. The PR60 will be completed and at Otwell's shop early to mid next week so we can finalize the rear 4-link.

I'll feel much better when final welding on the cage, small stuff (including Wrap/Exhaust/Etc), and testing is all we have left! Right now there's still a lot of work to do!

While I'm in AL, my 4600 Co-Driver and I have also been working on Pit Crew Logistics with our Crew Chief (shared with @RustyNailsJustin). Brittain knows his stuff and I'm glad to have him double checking everything to make sure we don't have any last minute surprises.

Lastly, I worked with Roxy and our Tech Inspection is now set for one of the earliest spots - 8am on Monday. I grabbed this early slot so we can have plenty of time to fix anything Tech throws at us before 4600 on Wed. Given I've literally memorized the rule book at this point, we expect it to go smoothly.

Roc Doc 01-08-2019 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44256242)
I hinted at this earlier, but we decided to make a change on the rear axle. We're now going with a Dynatrac ProRock 60 - Dynatrac has been really great to work with on this build and Wyatt has developed a great relationship with them. The PR60 will be completed and at Otwell's shop early to mid next week so we can finalize the rear 4-link.
.

Well I guess I should have taken the over on the 6000lb race car.

Corey Young 01-08-2019 04:14 PM

High pinion or low pinion Dana 60 rear?

Beat95YJ 01-08-2019 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corey Young (Post 44256372)
High pinion or low pinion Dana 60 rear?

The heavy one.

Charles4x4 01-09-2019 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44256354)
Well I guess I should have taken the over on the 6000lb race car.

Depending on the setup, the ProRock 60 can be slightly heavier, and our particular setup was more expensive. But we have first hand reasons to believe it's also stronger and more durable.

Given the nature of our build, we decided to go with what we believe is the strongest option out there and Dynatrac has been great to work with.

Josh40601 01-09-2019 07:52 AM

so, when do you plan on having the car on the lakebed? Hammertown opens 3 weeks from Friday...

Charles4x4 01-09-2019 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh40601 (Post 44257494)
so, when do you plan on having the car on the lakebed? Hammertown opens 3 weeks from Friday...

The current timeline allows us to be on-site Testing the week of 1/28. We're then officially on the lakebed starting Sat 2/2.

Josh40601 01-09-2019 08:35 AM

nice. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

Charles4x4 01-09-2019 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh40601 (Post 44257564)
nice. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

Thanks, me too :).

Charles4x4 01-09-2019 03:05 PM

I first want to get everyone caught up on some recent sponsors:

1) I'm excited to announce that we're partnering with PowerTank for our Onboard Air System at King of the Hammers. We'll be running their 10lb Comp Package setup with Extra HD Clamps to attach the system to our 2" Roll Cage. With our PowerTank system and plugs, we hope to avoid changing tires wherever possible!
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...82&oe=5CD5E5C5

2) I believe I touched on this earlier in the thread, but we're partnering with Bubba Rope on our Full Synthetic Recovery Gear. Our team will be carrying a Bubba Rope 7/8” x 30’ Power Stretch Recovery Rope, Gator-Jaw Pro Synthetic Shackles, and their Black Opp 3” x 20’ Nylon Tow Strap. With Bubba Rope, combined with our Warn winches, we’re now running the best recovery products in the industry.

Bubba Rope Products are High Strength, Low Weight, and Ultra Safe!
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...66&oe=5C8CB3E5

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...da&oe=5CBB4BCF

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...34&oe=5CCCCF72

3) We also got in our 4602 Vinyl Race Numbers. Given the specs in the Ultra4 Rules (7" Tall, Black, Arial Narrow), I got a local shop to make 4 sets for me. We'll cut out 4 "Shark Fin" number plates from Lexan or sheet metal and paint them Light Blue background. We'll then simpy apply these on top before the race:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...9f&oe=5CD0DD9E

I'm still working on one final sponsor that I hope comes through for us later this week!

On the fabrication front:
1) The cage is moving along really well. We got the windshield bar set yesterday and Otwell is working his magic again today!

2) The Dynatrac ProRock 60 should arrive early next week.

3) Wyatt is picking up our Custom Icon Vehicle Dynamics 2.5" Rear Shocks with Remote Reservoirs and CDCV and our Icon Rear Coils Later Today. Icon has been a true pleasure to work with - they are bending over backwards for this build! We hope to have these installed next week!

Special thanks again to PowerTank, Bubba Rope, Dynatrac, and Icon Vehicle Dynamics for partnering with us on our 2019 King of the Hammers build!

YotaAtieToo 01-09-2019 03:15 PM

Jeez, you guys are getting cunty. Since when is 60 rear is massive over kill? Does anyone have hard numbers on an aftermarket 60 or a 9" with all the same specs?(locker, tube size, outters, ect) I can't imagine it's much more than 20 lbs

snivilous 01-10-2019 07:56 AM

What ever happened with that ultra secret fancy IFS setup?

Bones 01-10-2019 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44258174)
Jeez, you guys are getting cunty. Since when is 60 rear is massive over kill? Does anyone have hard numbers on an aftermarket 60 or a 9" with all the same specs?(locker, tube size, outters, ect) I can't imagine it's much more than 20 lbs

Weight is the least of the concerns here.

Provience 01-10-2019 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snivilous (Post 44259196)
What ever happened with that ultra secret fancy IFS setup?

it is going in the front :confused:

Charles4x4 01-10-2019 10:16 AM

Here are the first glimpses of our 2" DOM Roll Cage from Robert Otwell at Otwell Welding and Fabrication.

Note we haven't begin tying it into the Frame, adding Horizontal Supports (A to B Pillar, etc), Gussets, Cargo-Area Work, etc. This is just the general outline at this point, so know there is much more "strengthening" to come.

Stripped and Ready:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4f&oe=5CD85133

A to D Pillar:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...5c&oe=5CB87389

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...73&oe=5CCEE2A5

B-Pillar Placement after some "Tweaking" it to fit nicely:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...3d&oe=5CBC4453

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...0e&oe=5CC90933

First Draft Front Seat Placement:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...1a&oe=5CCC3CCB

Initial Dash Bar Placement:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...68&oe=5CC6B09E

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b5&oe=5CD22337

Charles4x4 01-10-2019 10:18 AM

Overhead Structure:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...6c&oe=5CCFEB11

The Rear Seats Backs are in there for placement of the Fuel Cell Firewall. They will of course come out very soon:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4b&oe=5C8BAB2A

First glimpse at Windshield Frame Visibility:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...fe&oe=5CCA2B86

Charles4x4 01-10-2019 10:22 AM

While Otwell is working on the Roll Cage, RockSolidToys is busy prepping the Atlas II for Transplant!
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...3d&oe=5CCC0D3E

YotaAtieToo 01-10-2019 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44259216)
Weight is the least of the concerns here.

OK, what rear end would you suggest that would be so much lighter? Don't even say a 9.5 :rolleyes:


Op, how tight are the cross bars to the roof? In one of the pics they look totally flat :confused:

Charles4x4 01-10-2019 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44259536)
Op, how tight are the cross bars to the roof? In one of the pics they look totally flat :confused:

They are as tight as they can go at the windshield. There have a slight gap at the other spots.

For KOH, we're putting in a temporary, non-water proof aluminum patch over the sunroof hole. For future races, I asked Otwell to give us a bit of clearance between the roof and the cage so we could theoretically slide the sunroof structure (2" Thick) back into place or give us room to install a more substantial, water-tight patch in for the sunroof for future races.

I know it isn't ideal and take 100% of the blame on it not being right against the roof structure. with that said, it's not too late to still radius them up at this point...

Bones 01-10-2019 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44259536)
OK, what rear end would you suggest that would be so much lighter? Don't even say a 9.5 :rolleyes:


Op, how tight are the cross bars to the roof? In one of the pics they look totally flat :confused:

I wouldn't suggest anything lighter. This thing is gonna be heavy as fawk already so adding a D60 over a fabricated 9 or similar is silly.

TatonkaII 01-10-2019 11:23 AM

That tubing looks freakin' huge for an in cab cage. How much room do you have with a helmet and everything?

You've got some deep pockets.

Twmdodge99 01-10-2019 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TatonkaII (Post 44259682)
That tubing looks freakin' huge for an in cab cage. How much room do you have with a helmet and everything?

You've got some deep pockets.

I agree, I would cut all the factory bracing out of the pillars and put that cage right up against the roof.

]4RunnerKid[ 01-10-2019 12:14 PM

x3, get that shit tighter to the cab. also, ditch the sunroof and skin it with alum, polycarb, or something

jetboy 01-10-2019 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snivilous (Post 44259196)
What ever happened with that ultra secret fancy IFS setup?

My guess is it looks a lot like this:
https://www.speednik.com/files/2018/...-08_622130.jpg

But I'm also curious to see what they do on this one.

Charles4x4 01-10-2019 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TatonkaII (Post 44259682)
That tubing looks freakin' huge for an in cab cage. How much room do you have with a helmet and everything?

You've got some deep pockets.

Yes, it's huge 2" DOM. And Otwell is helping us out a bit via Sponsorship, but I'm bearing most of the cost on this part. We had to buy some special parts for the 2" since it's so uncommon. Note that it has to be 2" DOM given our weight per Ultra4:

8.2.12.2
All vehicles must be equipped with a roll cage fabricated of 1020 mild steel mechanical tubing or better (higher carbon content or alloy steel). The
following minimum mild steel tubing sizes for roll cage main structure, based on dry vehicle weight rating (DVWR) in race trim, not including occupants, are recommended:
o DVWR Under 3200 lb. (1452kg) - 1.5” (38mm) diameter x .120” (3.0mm) wall thickness.
o DVWR 3201 lb. (1452kg) - 4400 lb. (1996kg) - 1.75” (45mm) diameter x .120” (3.0mm) wall thickness.
o DVWR Over 4400 lb. (1996kg) - 2” (50mm) diameter x .120” (3.0mm) wall
thickness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twmdodge99 (Post 44259730)
I agree, I would cut all the factory bracing out of the pillars and put that cage right up against the roof.

We can't per Ultra4 4600 Rules:

8.3.2.2
"Stock body (body is considered to be the full cab, including all interior and exterior sheet metal, bed, doors, hood, fenders, grill, etc.) required. The body must be complete and unmodified, with the following limitations and exceptions: Holes may be cut in any part of the body for the single and exclusive purpose of allowing roll cage tubes and transmission/transfer case linkage to pass-through the body. Open holes must be kept to within .5" (12.5mm) of the diameter of any tube or linkage that passes through the body, with further restrictions related to holes in firewalls
specified in Section 8.2.12, Subsection 4."

Quote:

Originally Posted by ]4RunnerKid[ (Post 44259800)
x3, get that shit tighter to the cab. also, ditch the sunroof and skin it with alum, polycarb, or something

It'll be skinned with Aluminum for KOH (but not water tight - intentionally designed for race day).

Beat95YJ 01-10-2019 01:38 PM

Put the a-pillar behind the dash. If the wiring screws up this will make it a pain to remove. Also pull AC/HVAC, sunroof and wipers. Weight is bad.

Bones 01-10-2019 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44259944)
Put the a-pillar behind the dash. If the wiring screws up this will make it a pain to remove. Also pull AC/HVAC, sunroof and wipers. Weight is bad.

Defeats the purpose of a sponsored build that you intended to use as a trail rig in the end anyway

Charles4x4 01-10-2019 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44259944)
Put the a-pillar behind the dash. If the wiring screws up this will make it a pain to remove. Also pull AC/HVAC, sunroof and wipers. Weight is bad.

The dash is staying. I have "ways" to access all electrical and know it intimately at this point. The risk of screwing up the electrical by stripping the dash/components outweighs the inconvenience of having it in there. And it holds our electrical wiring, fuse panels, instruments, switches, master kill switch, etc in a nice, clean, compact package today designed well by Toyota. As you know, the dash weighs nothing.

Don't get me wrong, I do get it that running the A-Pillar behind the dash would have been ideal. We discussed it at length. But ultimately decided on our current path - the amount of work to run this through the dash and relocate the electrical, master kill wiring, 3-4 fuse panels, and everything else back there simply doesn't fit in our build timeline and could cause electrical gremlins to pop-up.

I know you've seen how many KOH cars have DNF'd due to Fuel & Electrical issues - I'm trying to avoid both.

Yes, the Sunroof, Wipers, etc - everything that we could easily strip - has or will be stripped! Every bolt, every component, etc. As you can see above, the sunroof is already gone...

Twmdodge99 01-10-2019 04:01 PM

[QUOTE=Charles4x4;44259906]Yes, it's huge 2" DOM. And Otwell is helping us out a bit via Sponsorship, but I'm bearing most of the cost on this part. We had to buy some special parts for the 2" since it's so uncommon. Note that it has to be 2" DOM given our weight per Ultra4:

8.2.12.2
All vehicles must be equipped with a roll cage fabricated of 1020 mild steel mechanical tubing or better (higher carbon content or alloy steel). The
following minimum mild steel tubing sizes for roll cage main structure, based on dry vehicle weight rating (DVWR) in race trim, not including occupants, are recommended:
o DVWR Under 3200 lb. (1452kg) - 1.5” (38mm) diameter x .120” (3.0mm) wall thickness.
o DVWR 3201 lb. (1452kg) - 4400 lb. (1996kg) - 1.75” (45mm) diameter x .120” (3.0mm) wall thickness.
o DVWR Over 4400 lb. (1996kg) - 2” (50mm) diameter x .120” (3.0mm) wall
thickness.



We can't per Ultra4 4600 Rules:

8.3.2.2
"Stock body (body is considered to be the full cab, including all interior and exterior sheet metal, bed, doors, hood, fenders, grill, etc.) required. The body must be complete and unmodified, with the following limitations and exceptions: Holes may be cut in any part of the body for the single and exclusive purpose of allowing roll cage tubes and transmission/transfer case linkage to pass-through the body. Open holes must be kept to within .5" (12.5mm) of the diameter of any tube or linkage that passes through the body, with further restrictions related to holes in firewalls
specified in Section 8.2.12, Subsection 4."


Damn rules ruin everything :D

Charles4x4 01-10-2019 04:10 PM

[QUOTE=Twmdodge99;44260170]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44259906)
Damn rules ruin everything :D

Very True :)

I will say, the rules are very well designed - Ultra4 deserves a lot of credit. I've memorized them! They are simple, logical, purposeful, and highly safety oriented.

For us, 4600 is the Stock Class. I actually think they explain the intent of the class well here, and it's one that I really connect with:

"The spirit of the stock class is to allow OEM and aftermarket vendors the opportunity to showcase their products while providing a venue for teams to compete in a true drivers class in vehicles that closely relate to street driven versions of the same."

Given our build and our sponsor's products - which many followers can literally buy and install on their own rigs if they have the cash - I think our build is a really solid, yet revolutionary and innovative take of the True Spirit of the Stock Class.

Yes, we get to use the bypasses and likely have the least number of competitors in our class. But we are also subject to 10x the rules and restrictions of any other class.

Given the intent above, the 4600 Class restrictions make sense and I personally am really proud of what our team has created within those rules while also catering to the true intent of the class.

jetboy 01-10-2019 04:35 PM

I think we all know by now that winning in U4 is about skirting the rules, not about following the intent. One hoop of 2" is probably good enough for "main structure". Here's how Toyota built its cage for the Baja 1,000. Looks like you're pretty well committed to heavy tube throughout. https://www.flickr.com/photos/448390...57622843644442

desertPOS 01-10-2019 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44259906)
We can't per Ultra4 4600 Rules:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twmdodge99 (Post 44260170)
Damn rules ruin everything :D

Actually, per the rules, anything within .5" of a cage tube can be cut:homer:


I realize it's tough to tell with camera angle, but in the pic with someone sitting in the rig it looks like once he has a helmet on, the top of the helmet will be same or similar height as the top of the roof tubes. What's going to happen to his head if you land upside down at speed? I would think that RIGHT NOW while you can, it'd be a really good idea to ditch the straight horizontal roof tubes and replace with something that is as tight to the roof as possible. Aka, touching. Lack of a sunroof seems like it'd be highly preferable to brain damage:homer:

You didn't leave anything important in the glove box, did you:flipoff2:

generalee7 01-10-2019 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertPOS (Post 44260312)
Actually, per the rules, anything within .5" of a cage tube can be cut:homer:


I realize it's tough to tell with camera angle, but in the pic with someone sitting in the rig it looks like once he has a helmet on, the top of the helmet will be same or similar height as the top of the roof tubes. What's going to happen to his head if you land upside down at speed? I would think that RIGHT NOW while you can

I was thinking this exact thing. You've studied the rule book in excess, what are the rules for helmet to cage clearance? Hope you and your co-driver are 5'5" or shorter :flipoff2:

65Chevy4x4 01-10-2019 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44259906)
Yes, it's huge 2" DOM. And Otwell is helping us out a bit via Sponsorship, but I'm bearing most of the cost on this part. We had to buy some special parts for the 2" since it's so uncommon. Note that it has to be 2" DOM given our

Every cage I have built in the last 3 years besides a simple jeep cage is 2inch tube. Not uncommon or special by any means. No special tools required besides die and larger hole saws.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

desertPOS 01-10-2019 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by generalee7 (Post 44260364)
I was thinking this exact thing. You've studied the rule book in excess, what are the rules for helmet to cage clearance? Hope you and your co-driver are 5'5" or shorter :flipoff2:

I think the rule is 4" or 5" - generally just measured with a fist between helmet and anything on the chassis. Once you add a helmet and roll cage padding, things start getting tight.

Speaking of which, even the location of the b-pillars seems like it'll be kind of tight, especially once it is properly gusseted to the roof bars:confused:

edit: the more I look at your cage pics, the more issues I see. Horizontal tube connecting the a-pillars looks way too low. Vertical b-pillar tubes tight to seats and kicked back instead of straight up and down. Straight horizontal tube connecting your b-pillar that is directly behind your head and inches away from the roof. A-pillars bent up to clear the dash. If you put a straight-edge on top of the cage and sit in the seats, how much space is between your head and the straight edge? That's where the roof/ground will be at minimum if you roll... Safety aside, it'd suck to get out on the lakebed and have to redo cage tubes just to pass the safety inspection. Trying to be constructive here...

pennsylvaniaboy 01-11-2019 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65Chevy4x4 (Post 44260442)
Every cage I have built in the last 3 years besides a simple jeep cage is 2inch tube. Not uncommon or special by any means. No special tools required besides die and larger hole saws.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

wow, why? I mean 1.75" .z120 DOM is plenty I would think?

Byro 01-11-2019 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pennsylvaniaboy (Post 44260750)
wow, why? I mean 1.75" .z120 DOM is plenty I would think?

It goes by weight of the vehicle, over “xxxxlbs” it has to be 2”

ky scrambled 01-11-2019 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byro (Post 44260766)
It goes by weight of the vehicle, over “xxxxlbs” it has to be 2”

4k or 5k?

desertPOS 01-11-2019 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ky scrambled (Post 44260770)
4k or 5k?

Post #666:evil:

Byro 01-11-2019 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ky scrambled (Post 44260770)
4k or 5k?

I’m not sure. I read it somewhere years ago. Never built a race car so it doesn’t really pertain to me. I’ve never had an issue with .120 1.75”

65Chevy4x4 01-11-2019 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pennsylvaniaboy (Post 44260750)
wow, why? I mean 1.75" .z120 DOM is plenty I would think?

I build desert race vehicles. Everything over 4K lbs needs 2" cage to be race legal. That means everything from extra cab rangers and bigger get a 2" cage.

And I agree that a properly built 1.75" x .120 Cage is MORE than enough for the trucks I have built it's what the rules state so if it's going to be a Race vehicle it gets a 2" cage. AND fullsize trucks i do 2" since they have plenty of interior space and it looks proportionally better.

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertPOS (Post 44260312)
I realize it's tough to tell with camera angle, but in the pic with someone sitting in the rig it looks like once he has a helmet on, the top of the helmet will be same or similar height as the top of the roof tubes. What's going to happen to his head if you land upside down at speed? I would think that RIGHT NOW while you can, it'd be a really good idea to ditch the straight horizontal roof tubes and replace with something that is as tight to the roof as possible. Aka, touching. Lack of a sunroof seems like it'd be highly preferable to brain damage:homer:

Yes, the pic is a bit misleading. In the pics right now, the seat height hasn't been cut yet. They are still sitting on the temporary Corbeau brackets that are really tall. Once we mount the seats to the cage (which will be run along the floor) and with the sunroof removed, we will have much more room.

That pic was only intended to show our viewing window - we were aiming to have our viewing angle high in that pic so that once we cut the seat height it'll be closer to center. Note Hobie and I are 6'0" (2" taller than Robert at 5'10"), so we're factoring that in too. Regardless, I respect your comments - you have 100x the experience than I have - and I will pass all of these comments along to the team this morning. It's not too late to make a change!

For helmet clearance, we're planning for margin beyond the rules (after padding is installed):

8.2.12.4
All roll cage components (hoops, braces, gussets, etc.) must have a minimum of 3” (75mm) of clearance from any vehicle occupant’s helmet when occupant is seated in normal driving/riding position. All roll cage components that might come into contact with the vehicle occupants’ helmets must be padded.

And Dave specifically stated this in the "How to Pass Ultra4 Chassis and Tech Inspection":
"You are required to have at least 3” of clearance between your helmet and roof/tube."
"Ideally we are looking for a closed fist worth of space between you and the roof."

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertPOS (Post 44260312)
You didn't leave anything important in the glove box, did you:flipoff2:

Yea, the glove box is dead now :D The URD Tuner is the only thing that is in there and it's bolted inside.

Quote:

Originally Posted by generalee7 (Post 44260364)
I was thinking this exact thing. You've studied the rule book in excess, what are the rules for helmet to cage clearance? Hope you and your co-driver are 5'5" or shorter :flipoff2:

See answer above. We're factoring all of this in for margin with a 6'0" driver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertPOS (Post 44260452)
I think the rule is 4" or 5" - generally just measured with a fist between helmet and anything on the chassis. Once you add a helmet and roll cage padding, things start getting tight.

Yes, this exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertPOS (Post 44260452)
Speaking of which, even the location of the b-pillars seems like it'll be kind of tight, especially once it is properly gusseted to the roof bars:confused:

edit: the more I look at your cage pics, the more issues I see. Horizontal tube connecting the a-pillars looks way too low. Vertical b-pillar tubes tight to seats and kicked back instead of straight up and down. Straight horizontal tube connecting your b-pillar that is directly behind your head and inches away from the roof. A-pillars bent up to clear the dash. If you put a straight-edge on top of the cage and sit in the seats, how much space is between your head and the straight edge? That's where the roof/ground will be at minimum if you roll... Safety aside, it'd suck to get out on the lakebed and have to redo cage tubes just to pass the safety inspection. Trying to be constructive here...

Thanks, I appreciate all the constructive feedback. I'll also pass these along to the team this morning. Nothing is finish welded, so it's not too late!

Also, the Top Windshield bar connecting the A-Pillars is 1/8" from the roof, so it's as tight as we can get it. The others (B, C, and D Pillar Horizontals) can still be radius'd up to the roof at this point. No matter what, I'll discuss this with the team. Note that the roof is surprisingly high on the 4th Gen with the Sunroof/Headliner removed and the seats lowered (they aren't yet lowered in these pics).

Note again that the seats are going to come down in height quite a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byro (Post 44260780)
I’m not sure. I read it somewhere years ago. Never built a race car so it doesn’t really pertain to me. I’ve never had an issue with .120 1.75”

You'd have to take that up with Ultra4:
8.2.12.2
DVWR Over 4400 lb. (1996kg) - 2” (50mm) diameter x .120” (3.0mm) wall
thickness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertPOS (Post 44260778)
Post #666:evil:

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65Chevy4x4 (Post 44260792)
I build desert race vehicles. Everything over 4K lbs needs 2" cage to be race legal. That means everything from extra cab rangers and bigger get a 2" cage.

And I agree that a properly built 1.75" x .120 Cage is MORE than enough for the trucks I have built it's what the rules state so if it's going to be a Race vehicle it gets a 2" cage. AND fullsize trucks i do 2" since they have plenty of interior space and it looks proportionally better.

More good confirmation on Ultra4's rule requiring 2" x .120 for anything over 4,400 lbs

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 07:39 AM

Here are the final pics from work completed last night:

40+ Gussets made from 1.25" x 0.120 DOM:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...fc&oe=5CCE1C73

Starting on the structure for where the Fuel Cell Firewall, Fuel Cell, Spare Tire, Spare Tools, etc will be mounted.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...6b&oe=5CD346EB

Note this is not part of the Main Structural Cage. However, the bottom horizontal bar is actually wider than the Frame just below the floor, so in the event of a roll over, it would actually provide structural support which is nice.

From here, a Lower Shelf right at floor level will be built for the Fuel Cell.

Then Fuel Cell Firewall will go from side-to-side across the back and up 2" above the cage along the same plane as the rear seats (they are still in there for mock-up purposes).

Then a Upper Shelf will be built over the cage that will hold the Spare Tire horizontally above the fuel cell (it won't fit any other way).

We'll then install PowerTank, Spare Tools, Ammo Cans, etc on this shelf structure and the D-Pillars.

We initially hoped to mount the spare behind the fuel cell on a 30deg or 45 deg angle, but we don't have enough space. We can't stand it up 90deg as it would block our view out the rear view mirror. It also tried Left/Right, but no go.

8.2.11.10
A rear view mirror is required on all vehicles. Mirrors must have at least six
square inches of mirror surface. Mirror must have a reasonably unobstructed view of area behind vehicle.

TiTRD 01-11-2019 07:46 AM

Been lurking. I like the idea.

The cage bothers me due to the fact your planning it around NOT rolling and to reinstall a sun roof. Fuck a sunroof. Place the emphasis on safety not luxury. Here safety = headroom.

Also you're not going to be able to see out of that cage when you lower the seats.

Not dissing the fab work. The idea is off.

65Chevy4x4 01-11-2019 07:53 AM

Also my interpretation on Rear view mirror is that you just need a mirror to see behind you. NOT that it has to be in the factory style location. I used to run 2 mirrors up on top edge of my doors like peep mirrors and they worked great to see what's coming up behind us. Just block the view out the back window and figure out some other mirrors or a rear view camera setup, those are cheap now days.

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65Chevy4x4 (Post 44260874)
Also my interpretation on Rear view mirror is that you just need a mirror to see behind you. NOT that it has to be in the factory style location. I used to run 2 mirrors up on top edge of my doors like peep mirrors and they worked great to see what's coming up behind us. Just block the view out the back window and figure out some other mirrors or a rear view camera setup, those are cheap now days.

Got it. We got a $15 UTV 15" x 3" rear view mirror that bolts to the 2" Cage Uper Windshield Bar off Amazon. We also have the two Quick Disconnect side mirrors on there, but who knows how long they'll last (they did fine at 100mph on the Highway, but that's nothing compared to KOH).

We probably have more than we need. But ideally we still have a view out the back with the spare horizontally mounted. I'm not sure there is a better alternative for the spare, regardless of the rear view mirror rule.

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiTRD (Post 44260852)
Been lurking. I like the idea.

The cage bothers me due to the fact your planning it around NOT rolling and to reinstall a sun roof. Fuck a sunroof. Place the emphasis on safety not luxury. Here safety = headroom.

Also you're not going to be able to see out of that cage when you lower the seats.

Not dissing the fab work. The idea is off.

Thanks. Don't misunderstand, we're planning it around ROLLING AND KEEPING US SAFE. Again, the 4th Gen's roof is quite tall and the seats are going lower. Regardless, I'm passing all of the info along. The priority is Safety, then Safety, then Safety. Then everything else...

Again, I take 100% blame on the sunroof thing if we DO have to backtrack slightly. I'm just thankful we can get real time feedback like this - we absolutely have time to make a change and radius the Horizontal Roof bars up across all pillars if the team believes we need to.

It's hard to tell from the pics, but the viewing window from final seat position is being considered heavily and we should be able to see out fine once everything is fully measured, tested, and locked in.

ALL FEEDBACK ABOVE HAS BEEN PASSED ALONG AS PROMISED.

Bones 01-11-2019 08:10 AM

Glad this thread is living up to what I expected. Now I only wish I was going to spectate this year

TiTRD 01-11-2019 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44260886)
Thanks. Don't misunderstand, we're planning it around ROLLING AND KEEPING US SAFE. Again, the 4th Gen's roof is quite tall and the seats are going lower. Regardless, I'm passing all of the info along. The priority is Safety, then Safety, then Safety. Then everything else...

Again, I take 100% blame on the sunroof thing if we DO have to backtrack slightly. I'm just thankful we can get real time feedback like this - we absolutely have time to make a change and radius the Horizontal Roof bars up across all pillars if the team believes we need to.

It's hard to tell from the pics, but the viewing window from final seat position is being considered heavily and we should be able to see out fine once everything is fully measured, tested, and locked in.

ALL FEEDBACK ABOVE HAS BEEN PASSED ALONG AS PROMISED.

Have fun and be safe out there :grinpimp:

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44260892)
Glad this thread is living up to what I expected. Now I only wish I was going to spectate this year

What? All the comments and you're not going to show! :)

All kidding aside, I'd love to meet everyone who has contributed to this thread on the lakebed if possible! As I mentioned to the team last night, Pirate's comments in this build thread have 100% altered the course of this build for the better.

Thank you to everyone!

And Bones, I promise, there is still a ton more fab work to come and we are Farther Ahead than most people think :).

Bones 01-11-2019 08:19 AM

I am hoping that means you are out testing NOW and not still fabbing.

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44260916)
I am hoping that means you are out testing NOW and not still fabbing.

I wish! We aren't that far ahead! But our timeline does still give us a multi-day buffer for testing. I wish it was a multi-week buffer.

The pics I'm posting here are Real Time. But some things aren't yet pictured :).

Roc Doc 01-11-2019 08:30 AM

:laughing:

crowbar7 01-11-2019 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones (Post 44260916)
I am hoping that means you are out testing NOW and not still fabbing.

That is the only thing that would put them farther ahead than we all think. I will be there to watch live. Not as optimistic as op but I hope he gets it there.

hodgiemoto 01-11-2019 09:11 AM

I'm sure he'll get it there. What, ya'all think he's the only one scrambling to get their rig ready for KOH? Heck I'm scrambling just to get my trail rig and camper ready to go. With as many sponsors as he's managed to atttain (which is impressive in itself) I don't think failure is an option. I'll bet the stress level is through the roof. I hope he gets it there and hope he does well, this is the Toyota forum after all..

pennsylvaniaboy 01-11-2019 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65Chevy4x4 (Post 44260792)
I build desert race vehicles. Everything over 4K lbs needs 2" cage to be race legal. That means everything from extra cab rangers and bigger get a 2" cage.

And I agree that a properly built 1.75" x .120 Cage is MORE than enough for the trucks I have built it's what the rules state so if it's going to be a Race vehicle it gets a 2" cage. AND fullsize trucks i do 2" since they have plenty of interior space and it looks proportionally better.

ah ok, i thought you meant for average joe wheeler that you did 2" cage for all of it.

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 09:18 AM

CAGE UPDATE:
As promised, I passed along all the feedback. Special thanks to @desertPOS for your guidance.

The team will be re-doing the horizontal roof bars at the B, C, and D Pillars to get them as close to the roof structures as possible.

As @TiTRD said, "Here Safety = Headroom" and we're all about Safety.

Note that the team was estimating we would have Two Fists between Helmet and B-Pillar Horizontal Bar once the seats are lowered, but we'll gain a bit more with this change and it only cost us 3-4 hours of re-work to make sure we're in really good shape.

The Sunroof is gone for good!

pennsylvaniaboy 01-11-2019 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byro (Post 44260766)
It goes by weight of the vehicle, over “xxxxlbs” it has to be 2”

i kno that, I assumed he meant for average wheelers

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 09:56 AM

Quick question from the Team that we need feedback on:

In the pic below, we have 1 Front to Rear Brace running Center-to-Center between the two A-Pillar and B-Pillar Connecting Horizontal Bars:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...6b&oe=5CD346EB

Based on your experience, do we need to add 1 Additional brace on each side of that Center Brace that are radiused so they do not affect headroom (so 3 Bars there total)? Or is this overkill?

We're leaning toward adding the two additional braces, but I wanted to get your feedback as well.

TooLazy 01-11-2019 10:04 AM

Is there any side to side bracing besides the horizontal tubing and a few short pieces used as corner gussets?

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TooLazy (Post 44261192)
Is there any side to side bracing besides the horizontal tubing and a few short pieces used as corner gussets?

Yes, there will be Gussets everywhere! See pic below that was posted up above:

40+ Gussets made from 1.25" x 0.120 DOM:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...fc&oe=5CCE1C73

TooLazy 01-11-2019 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44261194)
Yes, there will be Gussets everywhere! See pic below that was posted up above:



40+ Gussets made from 1.25" x 0.120 DOM:

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...fc&oe=5CCE1C73

So no side to side triangulation?

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TooLazy (Post 44261208)
So no side to side triangulation?

Yes, we will have side-to-side triangulation (if I understand the question well):
1) First, we're trying our best to not have any triangulation bars directly over the Driver's or Passenger's Helmets.
2) But the additional bars we're contemplating in this question would provide triangulation, yet would be radius'd so they don't go right above our helmets.

I hope I am explaining this okay.

TooLazy 01-11-2019 10:34 AM

I was thinking more along these lines:
https://imgur.com/a/OkKvE8G

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TooLazy (Post 44261258)
I was thinking more along these lines:
https://imgur.com/a/OkKvE8G

EDIT:
Yes, it will have an X there.

Beat95YJ 01-11-2019 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TooLazy (Post 44261258)
I was thinking more along these lines:
https://imgur.com/a/OkKvE8G

Wouldn’t he need something like that to pass tech? Without it that cage is just going to move all over the place if he rolls. Gussets are not going to cut it.

65Chevy4x4 01-11-2019 10:43 AM

You want the X to meet in the center, Otherwise you are creating a shear point for the bracing to shear that middle tube. Do it right.

OllieNZ 01-11-2019 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44261270)
Wouldn’t he need something like that to pass tech? Without it that cage is just going to move all over the place if he rolls. Gussets are not going to cut it.

Would have thought so. I'm not 100% up on the koh stuff but I'm pretty familiar with the local MSA regs and they would require it and iirc when I was looking at building a U4 vehicle to compete here in Europe the cage requirements were even more stringent than MSA regs.

Edit: The X brace also has to be the same diameter tube as side hoops so 2" in this case.

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OllieNZ (Post 44261308)
Would have thought so. I'm not 100% up on the koh stuff but I'm pretty familiar with the local MSA regs and they would require it and iirc when I was looking at building a U4 vehicle to compete here in Europe the cage requirements were even more stringent than MSA regs.

Edit: The X brace also has to be the same diameter tube as side hoops so 2" in this case.

Correct, it'd be 2" DOM. Ultra4 isn't very specific in this area, but we're going for Safety. The area that covers it generally is: "Competitors are ultimately responsible for their vehicle’s safety features, including the design, fabrication, quality of execution, maintenance and repair of the roll cage structure."

Here are the FULL Rollcage 8.2.12 rules, if you're interested:
"1) It is each competitor’s responsibility to present a safe vehicle for pre-event technical inspection. Competitors must maintain their safety equipment including the roll cage integrity. Hammerking Productions Inc. reserves the right to not allow any cage designs that, in the opinion of the Chief Technical Inspector, is not fit for competition. Competitors are ultimately responsible for their vehicle’s safety features, including the design, fabrication, quality of execution, maintenance and repair of the roll cage structure. The roll cage is considered to be the main 6-point structure that surrounds and protects the vehicle’s occupants.
2) All vehicles must be equipped with a roll cage fabricated of 1020 mild steel mechanical tubing or better (higher carbon content or alloy steel). The following minimum mild steel tubing sizes for roll cage main structure, based on dry vehicle weight rating (DVWR) in race trim, not including occupants, are recommended:
o DVWR Under 3200 lb. (1452kg) - 1.5” (38mm) diameter x .120” (3.0mm) wall thickness.
o DVWR 3201 lb. (1452kg) - 4400 lb. (1996kg) - 1.75” (45mm) diameter x .120” (3.0mm) wall thickness.
o DVWR Over 4400 lb. (1996kg) - 2” (50mm) diameter x .120” (3.0mm) wall
thickness.
Supporting Tubes as defined above with an unsupported span of less than 30” (762mm) are allowed to be the same diameter as the main structure in the .095” (2.5mm) wall thickness or .25” (6mm) smaller tube diameter with .120 (3.0mm) wall thickness. All unsupported span more than 30” (762mm) must be the same diameter and thickness as the main structure. No aluminum or other non-ferrous materials are permitted. (All specifications may be substituted with metric equivalent).
3) Roll cage main structure material may be CREW, DOM, WHR, or WCR mild carbon steel or 4130 chromoly alloy steel. All welds must be of high quality and craftsmanship with good penetration and with no undercutting of parent material.
4) All roll cage components (hoops, braces, gussets, etc.) must have a minimum of 3” (75mm) of clearance from any vehicle occupant’s helmet when occupant is seated in normal driving/riding position. All roll cage components that might come into contact with the vehicle occupants’ helmets must be padded.
5) Roll cages must be securely mounted to the frame, chassis, or body. Roll cage terminal ends must be attached to a frame or body member that will support maximum impact and not shear or allow movement in the cage terminal end. Cab/body-mounted roll cages must sandwich the body structure using a minimum of two .1875” (4.75mm) thick, dissimilar sized, doubler plates, one on each side of the body structure. Roll cage mounting fasteners must be at least .375” diameter S.A.E. Grade 8 (10mm gr 10.9) or
equivalent or better. Sandwich plates, if used, must be oriented only in the horizontal plane. No vertical or other non-horizontal sandwich plate orientations are permitted.
6) All vehicles, including those with stock steel doors, must have at least one side bar on each side of vehicle that will protect occupants from side impact. The sidebars must be of the same tubing material and dimensions as the main frame of the roll cage. The sidebars should be as close to parallel to the ground as possible, must be located to provide maximum protection to the occupants, and must be securely welded to the front and rear hoops of the roll cage. The location of the sidebars must not cause difficulty in entering or exiting the vehicle.
7) Gussets must be installed at all major intersections, including diagonal and rear down braces, where single weld fractures can affect occupants’ safety. Gussets constructed of 3” (75mm) x 3” (75mm) x .125" (3.5mm) flat plate or split, formed and welded corner tubing, or tubing gussets made of the same material and thickness as the roll cage may be used.
8) Six (6) point mounting cages are required over the occupants.
9) A minimum .040” (1mm) expanded or flat sheet magnetic steel or .125” (3.5mm) aluminum must cover the area immediately above the occupants’ seats and be attached via welding or bolting to a steel tubing frame work."

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65Chevy4x4 (Post 44261280)
You want the X to meet in the center, Otherwise you are creating a shear point for the bracing to shear that middle tube. Do it right.

UPDATE:
It will be an X. Otwell was planning on a X all along.

Beat95YJ 01-11-2019 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44261330)

7) Gussets must be installed at all major intersections, including diagonal and rear down braces, where single weld fractures can affect occupants’ safety. Gussets constructed of 3” (75mm) x 3” (75mm) x .125" (3.5mm) flat plate or split, formed and welded corner tubing, or tubing gussets made of the same material and thickness as the roll cage may be used.

The way I read this, shouldn’t you are a gussets be 2” x .120”?

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44261372)
The way I read this, shouldn’t you are a gusset speed 2” x .120”?

Yeah, you have to read this one closely. It says: "Gussets made of the same Material and Thickness"

The Material is DOM. The thickness is 0.120".

Note that Diameter isn't specified, so we called Ultra4 Tech yesterday and they told us we could use 1.25" Diameter for the Gussets.

65Chevy4x4 01-11-2019 11:51 AM

You are correct on the material being DOM and thickness .120. I have used smaller diameter tube for gussets and never have an issue.

hurleygo3 01-11-2019 12:30 PM

Put an X behind the driver, gusset the A and B pillers if there's a weld joint and run it. No way in hell would I be adding that table full of gussets.

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44261176)
[U]We have 1 Front to Rear Brace running Center-to-Center between the two A-Pillar and B-Pillar Connecting Horizontal Bars.

Based on your experience, do we need to add 1 Additional brace on each side of that Center Brace that are radius'd so they do not affect headroom (so 3 Bars there total)? Or is this overkill?

We spoke with JT and got this solved!

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleygo3 (Post 44261476)
Put an X behind the driver, gusset the A and B pillers if there's a weld joint and run it. No way in hell would I be adding that table full of gussets.

Intriguing...

8.2.12.7
"Gussets must be installed at all major intersections, including diagonal and rear down braces, where single weld fractures can affect occupants’ safety. Gussets constructed of 3” (75mm) x 3” (75mm) x .125" (3.5mm) flat plate or split, formed and welded corner tubing, or tubing gussets made of the same material and thickness as the roll cage may be used."

Given your comment, I'm guessing you'd take advantage of the fact that the C and D Pillars have don't directly "affect occupants' safety" right?

I just sent this to Otwell!

coilcj 01-11-2019 01:22 PM

In the main passenger area where you and co-dawg will be sitting there should be two "angle" tubes at least, going from where the center front to back meats the overhead B to where the overhead A meats the real A. Make sense? I wouldnt be opposed to deleting that front to back and putting an X over head.

From there I would X behind the driver and passenger seats, B pillar to driver to B pillar bottom passenger and vice versa.

Remember, triangulation is your friend, especially around the occupants and right now in the pic you have posted you have ZERO and this cage without last in a serious impact.

Just my honest $0.02

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 01:45 PM

RockSolidToys is busy torching off our Rear Suspension Brackets getting ready for the RST 4-Link and Dynatrac ProRock 60 to go in:

Short Video:
https://www.facebook.com/SteelCityRa...8751155264765/

Image:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f7&oe=5CBC6F91

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coilcj (Post 44261584)
In the main passenger area where you and co-dawg will be sitting there should be two "angle" tubes at least, going from where the center front to back meats the overhead B to where the overhead A meats the real A. Make sense? I wouldnt be opposed to deleting that front to back and putting an X over head.

From there I would X behind the driver and passenger seats, B pillar to driver to B pillar bottom passenger and vice versa.

Remember, triangulation is your friend, especially around the occupants and right now in the pic you have posted you have ZERO and this cage without last in a serious impact.

Just my honest $0.02

Good feedback. We're definitely doing what you describe above for structural triangulation. We might also add a 1/8" Plate above Driver/Co-Driver Heads for "Shark Fin Shaped Rock" protection during a roll-over, but it may be overkill given the "angle" DOM will be there.

hurleygo3 01-11-2019 04:50 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44261524)
Intriguing...

8.2.12.7
"Gussets must be installed at all major intersections, including diagonal and rear down braces, where single weld fractures can affect occupants’ safety. Gussets constructed of 3” (75mm) x 3” (75mm) x .125" (3.5mm) flat plate or split, formed and welded corner tubing, or tubing gussets made of the same material and thickness as the roll cage may be used."

Given your comment, I'm guessing you'd take advantage of the fact that the C and D Pillars have don't directly "affect occupants' safety" right?

I just sent this to Otwell!

Just occupants.
In the pic. The only gusset needed to pass tech in where the red is.

generalee7 01-11-2019 08:02 PM

Whats the plan for welding the top of the cage? That's the fun part :grinpimp:

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by generalee7 (Post 44262152)
Whats the plan for welding the top of the cage? That's the fun part :grinpimp:

Otwell has a plan! He'll cut holes in the floor and drop it through to the frame. Weld the top. Bend it over some if needed to weld the sides. Then raise it back up, put on the Interior floor plates.

We'll of course then add the Frame to Exterior floor plates underneath and sandwich the Interior/Exterior plates together.

Charles4x4 01-11-2019 08:22 PM

Roll Cage Update:
Here's where we ended up for the night. As you can tell, the feedback I received today from all the forums made a significant impact. I'll let the pics tell the story.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...bd&oe=5CC9F7CC

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e9&oe=5CCD0D8B

Robert Otwell has been flying. He said "everything has just been falling into place really nicely!". So much so that he asked me to move up my flight by 3-days to tackle all the Small Stuff earler than expected while RockSolidToys is finishing their work.

I'll now be at Otwell's shop starting MLK Day - Monday 1/21! This should give us more days for testing! Thanks again for all the advice and feedback today and I hope everyone has a great weekend.

trmartin 01-11-2019 08:34 PM

I haven’t heard any mention of this.....
Do you plan on flying out and helping to install the driver seat? I can’t imagine letting someone weld seat mounts up without me sitting in it and making sure it is at the right angle, height, etc.

Talking about coming down to the wire.....lot of people predicted this would end up getting finished without testing when you thought you had plenty of time for test/tune.

Roc Doc 01-11-2019 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44262196)
Roll Cage Update:
Here's where we ended up for the night. As you can tell, the feedback I received today from all the forums made a significant impact. I'll let the pics tell the story.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...bd&oe=5CC9F7CC

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e9&oe=5CCD0D8B

That's more like it, much more like it.

the78outlaw 01-11-2019 09:35 PM

50 Attachment(s)
^^^Not trying to be a dick, but I don't understand why it didn't end up like this in the first place, if your guy is a professional fabricator.

SLOWPOKE693 01-11-2019 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles4x4 (Post 44262186)
Otwell has a plan! He'll cut holes in the floor and drop it through to the frame. Weld the top. Bend it over some if needed to weld the sides. Then raise it back up, put on the Interior floor plates.

I dont want to call BS, but i'm not seeing how any of that is going to happen. The A pillar tubes wrap around the dash, the B pillar tubes are tight to the body and your C pillar bars are set onto a bar going across the floor. :confused:

Btw..... Every inch of tube that you installed after the B pillar that didnt angle down to the frame was a giant wast of tube, money, weight & effort. Did you not look at the picture of the Baja 4runner posted in here? :shaking:

4xfiend 01-12-2019 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWPOKE693 (Post 44262312)
Btw..... Every inch of tube that you installed after the B pillar that didnt angle down to the frame was a giant wast of tube, money, weight & effort. Did you not look at the picture of the Baja 4runner posted in here? :shaking:

Can’t put the kids in the back and overland back home if the B-C bars block the doors :flipoff2:

Charles4x4 01-13-2019 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roc Doc (Post 44262256)
That's more like it, much more like it.

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWPOKE693 (Post 44262312)
Btw..... Every inch of tube that you installed after the B pillar that didnt angle down to the frame was a giant wast of tube, money, weight & effort. Did you not look at the picture of the Baja 4runner posted in here? :shaking:

See post #680:
"Note this (C-Pillar Structure) is not part of the Main Structural Cage. However, the bottom horizontal bar is actually wider than the Frame just below the floor, so in the event of a roll over, it would actually provide structural support which is nice.

From here, a Lower Shelf right at floor level will be built for the Fuel Cell. Then Fuel Cell Firewall will go from side-to-side across the back and up 2" above the cage along the same plane as the rear seats (they are still in there for mock-up purposes).Then a Upper Shelf will be built over the cage that will hold the Spare Tire horizontally above the fuel cell on 30deg/45deg angle back toward the Lift Gate. We'll then install PowerTank, Spare Tools, Ammo Cans, etc on this shelf structure and the D-Pillars."

The D-Pillar of course ties into the Frame too. In the event of a roll-over, we can't allow the rear roof to cave in... Per the rules, I assume they wouldn't let us progress past the next check-point if it did due to safety concerns and we certainly couldn't' race the truck again (4400 on Fri). The D-Pillar to B-Pillar (and to some extent the C-Pillar Quasi-Structural Component that is wider than the frame rails) are all aiding Total Roof Structure Integrity. With that said, they'll be much "lighter" than the A-B Occupant Compartment protection, including minimal gussets and cross-bars back there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the78outlaw (Post 44262284)
^^^Not trying to be a dick, but I don't understand why it didn't end up like this in the first place, if your guy is a professional fabricator.

See Post #656:
"For KOH, we're putting in a temporary, non-water proof aluminum patch over the sunroof hole. For future races, I asked Otwell to give us a bit of clearance between the roof and the cage so we could theoretically slide the sunroof structure (2" Thick) back into place or give us room to install a more substantial, water-tight patch in for the sunroof for future races. I know it isn't ideal and take 100% of the blame on it not being right against the roof structure. with that said, it's not too late to still radius them up at this point..."'

AND

See Post #684:
"Again, I take 100% blame on the sunroof thing if we DO have to backtrack slightly. I'm just thankful we can get real time feedback like this - we absolutely have time to make a change and radius the Horizontal Roof bars up across all pillars if the team believes we need to."

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4xfiend (Post 44262452)
Can’t put the kids in the back and overland back home if the B-C bars block the doors :flipoff2:

We still have to add Horizontals between A-B Pillars at Seat Cushion height. We were initially debating B-C Pillar Horizontals at rear seat cushion height as well, but have moved away from them for now.

jetboy 01-14-2019 03:14 PM

Just more of an FYI - The Baja 1000 2010 4runner did roll during the baja 1000. I don't know much for details other than having seen a cell phone video of it being tipped back onto it's wheels at night. So the roll could have been a soft flop - probably was. But it was on it's roof at one point given the sheet metal. You won't see much info on the web about it - but I think the roll over was why they end up bringing it home in 2wd and lost the 1st place position near the end. Still put down a decent time though. And it demonstrates that the OEM body is pretty robust on its own. The rear part of the body beyond the cage was wrinkled, but otherwise undamaged. I'd bet that the body structure is already stronger than the cage on 99% of the open tops you'll be running around with.

Also - just as an additional comment - U4 Basically just wholesale adopted the SCORE cage requirements, but didn't include the detail pictures - probably for copyright reasons. You can use flat plate wedges that extend 3" from each weld joint on the required gusset corners. The engineering behind them is that a weld failure could compromise the cage, not that the tube will bend. So the primary purpose is simply to make sure that all the critical joints remain connected where they need to be. All critical elements should be loaded in tension or compression, as such there should be almost no bending moment on the joints. If you have an ironworker (tool, not person) - the gussets are quick and easy to make.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...9IeTuvaSs9A03T

At least one other competitor in 4600 from a well known professional that was at SEMA has a non-compliant cage (at the time of SEMA show pics) that should be fixed before the race. I have no idea how strict the inspections are. My guess is not very. I don't remember if U4 requires inspection holes for wall thickness like some race classes - I'd keep a few 1/4" bits and a cordless drill in your tool kit just in case.

good luck

Charles4x4 01-15-2019 09:15 AM

Update on yesterday's progress:
Otwell dropped the cage through the floor for finish welding, including on top of the cage.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...39&oe=5CCEAEFB

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...68&oe=5CC28BBC

Robert made good progress on some of the more complex joints:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f6&oe=5CCE8AF5

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...46&oe=5CB372FB

And we got our T-Shirts made for our core 4602 and Pit Crew teams. I couldn't get sponsorship on this, so we didn't get many extras made. Maybe next year!
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...14&oe=5CC76B92