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Old 05-12-2006, 05:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Emissions help 85 EFI whats the trick?

Ok, ol' rusty doesn't want to cooperate.

Running rich..
1st run CO was 57 allowable 45
2nd run CO was 45.6 allowable 45
3rd run CO was 56 allowable 45

My truck is an 85 EFI with pacesetter header. 2.5" exhaust, ebay cat, bosch o2 sensor.
timing is 5 BTDC i believe. Failed with high CO on my first trip to the colorado emissions test. I pulled the air filter on run 2 and got slightly over (45.6 allowable 45.0). Determined to pass, I bought the 'guaranteed to pass formula' at checker, followed directions exactly and filled with 91 octane. Retook (air filter still out) the test after thoroghly warming it up at 15 minutes freeway and taking the gears to 4000+. It failed again, and this time it was way over again at 56 (45 allowable).

The truck has driven fine for quite some time since the pacesetter header was put on about a year ago, but I have read about the o2 sensor problem with the bosch where it doesnt get adequate flow, coupled with the poor location of the sensor on the pacesetter pipe. My CEL has been coming on at steady throttle on the freeway occasionally, and i'll only have to take my foot off of the pedal for a second or so to have it clear. Since nothing else has worked, I've swapped the bosch for my stock sensor. Should I retake the test as it is or are there any suggestions for adding ethenol or some alcohol to make it burn cleaner? Thanks!
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Old 05-12-2006, 05:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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try a can of carb cleaner, pull the air tubes, have somebody in the cab to start it for you. hold the throttle open and spray away, do the whole can, and make sure the throttle isn't open too much, you want the carb clean to bog th motor and barely run. after that drive it for 5 miles and then hit the smog shop again. I hope you are going to a no pass no pay station.
you do not want to run 91 octane, go with a lower octane, it burns more completely. check resistance on your temp sensors. make sure they are good, that will mess with your fuel mixtures too.
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Did you check the code from your CEL???
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I had the same CEL light problem after installing an LCE Header on my 85 22re 4runner. We do not have emissions testing so I do not know what the CO levels were, but I know it was running rich. I had to extend the wires to get the O2 sensor relocated from the exhaust manifold to the exhaust pipe past the header. After a year I bought a heated O2 sensor. Before I installed it I re-check my connectors and one of the wires came loose. I soldered it together, cleared the computer and have had no problem since. Never did put the heated one it. Before clearing the computer I checked the codes and I had a O2 sensor code and TPS code. The O2 code went away. I have since changed the TPS and that code went away also. I would switch back to a factory Denso sensor. Heated would be better, but not required.

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Old 05-13-2006, 07:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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thanks - I had that thought about the 91 octance after running one tank of it. I'll try the carb cleaner trick. Yes I checked the code, I think it was code 5. I ended up extending the wires like ccannon and used solder and wire loom to keep it covered. I hope the stock o2 sensor, a new tank of gas, and the carb cleaner trick makes it happen. and no its not a no pass no pay

I'm $50 in the hole (buy one get one free) so far but don't really want to see how much more I can give away..
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Old 05-13-2006, 08:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Whats the NOX? Should be 1200 something. If its low then it might be a EGR issue.

Mine was blowing high CO and low NOX because the EGR was dumping to much. So it had to little O2 to burn the fuel. It was to the point I had a stumble at steady cruise.
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Old 05-13-2006, 09:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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the only thing those nymber say is that it is too rich
what are the other numbers.

CO can be too high from too much fuel or too little if there is a miss presesnt
what was the HC and O2 counts
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Old 05-13-2006, 09:35 AM   #8 (permalink)
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1200 is like the max allowable here for NOx....average should be between 300-400


CO is usually measured in a percentage....

Is this a dyno test or a 2 speed idle test?

If it is a dyno test gears and tires can have a big effect on the readings. Even the best running engine will fail if its being loaded down by oversized tires with the incorrect gear set.
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Old 05-13-2006, 10:26 AM   #9 (permalink)
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A couple of ideas:

1. Swap the Bosch sensor for a Denso, they work better in the Toyota engine.
2. Dump in a gallon of ethanol (~10% mix) and see if that helps.
3. Advance the timing a few degrees if possible.
4. Make sure the engine is hot for the test, drive ~20 miles and keep it idling until test time.
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Old 05-13-2006, 11:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I had about the same readings and .......... used a bunch of cardb cleaner and some other crap that you add to the gas to clean everything to help it pass smog AND I put 3 quarts of rubbing alch in the gas tank
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Old 05-13-2006, 02:37 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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This isn't a fix, but it'll help to pass ya. Run the tank down low and add some denatured alcohol. Basically, you want to add as much as you can that'll allow the truck to keep running well (if you add too much, just even it out with a bit of gas). Make sure the cat is nice and hot (cruise for 30 minutes or so before the testing), and after you pass fill the tank up to dilute the alcohol (otherwise it'll eat all the rubber and seals in your fuel system).
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Old 05-13-2006, 05:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I haven't tested yet, will probably do it on monday. Here are the numbers from the barely fail test:

HC GPM 1.864 limits 6.000 PASS
CO GPM 45.612 limits 45 FAIL
CO2 GPM 258.595 not measures
NOx GPM .9244 limits 12.000 PASS

I put some 87 in it, and I'm going to try carb cleaner, and probably some denatured or ethenol... whatever it takes. The tires are 31x10.5. Truck has good compression, new top end rebuild, and it purrs up i-70 (as long as its got momentum). Thanks 4crawler - I'll check the timing. Appreciate the help!
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Old 05-13-2006, 06:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
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the trick is to move out of california!
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Old 05-13-2006, 09:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
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the trick is to move out of california!
That's great advice, but he's from Colorado...
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Old 05-13-2006, 09:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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none the less CA sucks!!!
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Old 05-14-2006, 10:42 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter
1200 is like the max allowable here for NOx....average should be between 300-400


CO is usually measured in a percentage....

Is this a dyno test or a 2 speed idle test?

If it is a dyno test gears and tires can have a big effect on the readings. Even the best running engine will fail if its being loaded down by oversized tires with the incorrect gear set.
We do PPM in GA not GPM.

1200 ppm = 395 GPM
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Old 05-14-2006, 10:53 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my94israd
I haven't tested yet, will probably do it on monday. Here are the numbers from the barely fail test:

HC GPM 1.864 limits 6.000 PASS
CO GPM 45.612 limits 45 FAIL
CO2 GPM 258.595 not measures
NOx GPM .9244 limits 12.000 PASS

I put some 87 in it, and I'm going to try carb cleaner, and probably some denatured or ethenol... whatever it takes. The tires are 31x10.5. Truck has good compression, new top end rebuild, and it purrs up i-70 (as long as its got momentum). Thanks 4crawler - I'll check the timing. Appreciate the help!
Low NOX you are either not going closed loop, way to high of fuel or too much EGR. Low NOX means the cat is not coming up to temp. Your test looks like it fails on too hight of NOX (cat melting) but not too low. Generally the higher the NOX the lower the CO.

Test your temp sensors including the Ambient air temp sensor in the AFM.
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Old 02-19-2008, 05:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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ok guys... need advice.... failed twice... first run :
15mph:
co2-12.5
o2-.1
Hc- 9 (221 max)
co-3.70 (1.62 max) Fail
NO-115 (1533 max)

so i failed.
the fixs :
i reset timing. found a port on the egr valve was plugged up ( thought that was the fix) and then a new cat.....

2nd test.....:
15mph:
Co2-13.0
o2-0.1
HC-550 (221 max ) Fail
Co-3.31 (1.62 max) Fail
NO-21 (1533 max )
p.s. also failed EVAP test... said fuel system had a leak. found the "breath tube" coming back up to the filler cap had holes... replaced it ... yet still failed the evap test again....

soooo.... so far.... i found out after the second test fail.. that when adjusting the idle mixture screw.... there was no effect on rpm's at all. a neighbor mechanic said that was "most likely" my high HC output reason right there because in order to compensate for no idle mixture adjustment he had to raise my idle speed screw up more then normal. sooo in turn, baisically dumping way more gas in at all times then needed... ( which might explain the ruff/ lofty hestation in mid-rpm range while accelerating???) well n e ways... i took the carb off and completely apart. soaked it in Pb penetrating oil and sprayed everything out with carb cleaner. rebuilt it with a complete rebuild kit. ( also found during reassembly that the " water heated" choke " monifold" was not sealed to the carb... basically hangin on with one tiny screw... but up to date. havent retested yet, but the trucks idle mixture screw is affective ( actually adjusts/ speeds/ tweaks the rpms.) no more throttle hesitation... soo my question... does it sound like i've done enought to restest???? n e more tips that i havent tried yet???? thanks alot! - Smash o yea... 1980 toy 20r
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:36 AM   #19 (permalink)
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High hydrocarbons indicate that you're rich. Are you seeing high hydrocarbons under high RPM test? If so - I'd check two things:
1) Make sure you're in closed loop - there is a FSM procedure for checking the output of the 02 sensor. It should dither if functioning properly - that is, switch back and forth from rich to lean.

2) Cat condition.
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