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Old 12-21-2006, 05:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Arrow ATTN: [email protected], what are our most common mistakes when we wrench on our engines?

Like the title says. What are the most common mistakes we make when we tear into our engines, and how do we avoid them?
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Old 12-21-2006, 05:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Like the title says. What are the most common mistakes we make when we tear into our engines, and how do we avoid them?
Steve, the most common mistake I see causing problems is someone not knowing whether the result they now have with a replacement part, a performance part, a tune modification, etc., is correct. It"s a farse to think taking a part out of a box and bolting it on is all that's needed, especially when it's an attempt in resolving a bad state of tune, and even more so with efi than carbs. Experience allows you to recognize potential problems when a teardown to any degree is performed. Lacking that "experience" can be a problem, but this is how we all learn, myself included. My opinion is a person has to be patient, and open minded when attempting any type of work to any engine, or peripheral. I think cutting corners is also a common problem, negating proper stages in work is a bad thing, and can lead to a worse result than what the situtaion started as.
There's some really bad Intel out there, and I mean complete crap information. I fix a good amount of problems because someone simply "didn't know." You avoid bad results by searching out the needed information and process from competent sources. Now if you're asking about "specific" errors, the answer is endless. Hope this is answers your question, if not, hit me with a specific.
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Old 12-21-2006, 05:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Ok, reinstalling 3VZE heads.

You mentioned that was a big issue, so what makes the 3VZE that much different that working on any other top end?
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Old 12-21-2006, 05:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Lets do specifics:
What is the correct procedure for installing a 22r/re camshaft?
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Last edited by steveh; 12-21-2006 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 12-21-2006, 05:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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If not, hit me with a specific.
Okay. Should I remove the "hidden" bolt before prying off the timing cover?

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Old 12-21-2006, 05:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Okay. Should I remove the "hidden" bolt before prying off the timing cover?

Smart ass!! Lets not chase Tim away. Don't make me Bit slap you
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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In your experience, at what point (in terms of modifications) do you have to seek EFI tuning?
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Lets do specifics:
What is the correct procedure for installing a 22r/re camshaft?
Step one:


Buy a FSM. The rest of the steps will be in it.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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maybe you could do a quick over view of the 'best bang for the buck' mods on a 22re in your experience?
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:04 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I see all too often people reusing internal wear items when rebuilding a complete engine, upper end, or just replacing the camshaft. Like it really makes sense reusing you old oil pump in a fresh rebuild then come on here and bitch about your engine problems. (example)

FSM is a great source for information, how else do you know how to measure and or diagnosis things? Oh, come on here and ask the same Q over and over.

I wonder how many people actually inspect an engine while they are tearing it down. Looking for reasons for failure or engines demise.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dcg9381 View Post
In your experience, at what point (in terms of modifications) do you have to seek EFI tuning?
This is a good question that I've been kind of wondering about since I built my motor. It's nothing huge, just a cam and a small bore (.020), and cleaned injectors are the big things, of course along with all the other standard new parts. However I know that a cam can make a HUGE difference in the way a motor runs. I'm sure my tune is complete crap, and wish I knew as much about engines as I do steel fabrication.

What kinds of simple things can be looked at when running a high lift cam?

Also in my case I took a block and head, replace the head, and put the EFI system from my running motor on the newly built block. Aside from the Cam, injectors, and bore, should there be much of a difference in the operation/tune of the motor?
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
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maybe you could do a quick over view of the 'best bang for the buck' mods on a 22re in your experience?
Great question. This could be a good thread
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Old 12-21-2006, 09:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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on a carb. motor its got to be running it to rich, this is not good for the #3 cly.
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Old 12-21-2006, 09:11 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Okay. Should I remove the "hidden" bolt before prying off the timing cover?



i know that was coming sooner or later,
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Old 12-22-2006, 05:33 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Ok, reinstalling 3VZE heads.

You mentioned that was a big issue, so what makes the 3VZE that much different that working on any other top end?

Sapper, what makes the 3.0 heads different when they're being installed is that they use specific stretch yield fasteners that REQUIRE an angle gauge to be used. An angle gauge insures correct loading / stretch has been achieved. Also, 3.0 head bolts DO NOT RECOIL!!!!! Reusing them is an error, even though dealers did it all the time. Dealerships also paid dearly in the end. Fasteners apply clamping force at specific torque values, and ft. lb for ft. lb. stretched fasteners fall short at the same torque when applied. In english, reusing a 3.0 head bolt gives you less clamping force at the same poundage applied. 3.0's also require the cam to be loaded (torqued in place) before the head bolts are final torqued, this preloads both the cam, and the head assembly. This is another reason 3.0 heads crack between the galley plugs adjacent to the bucket tubs. In english, it's like torquing a bent header flange to a straight head, heating it up under load, and snapping a primary tube. It's all about load.
Steveh, can you post a picture of an angle gauge for these guys, I have no idea how to post a picture in here......I still have yet to figure out how to box in a "quote."

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Last edited by steveh; 12-22-2006 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 12-22-2006, 05:35 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Okay. Should I remove the "hidden" bolt before prying off the timing cover?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, there's a hidden bolt?
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Old 12-22-2006, 05:46 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
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In your experience, at what point (in terms of modifications) do you have to seek EFI tuning?
Darin, this will get deep, but your up to it. It depends on the ECU driver, different years are different, injector cc's were increased as the later years evolved, ohms changed, high impedance vs. peak and hold, saturated, etc. O2 sensors changed, upper chambers and throttle bodies changed. 83-84 efi used carbed distributors and a different tps so the ecu had no effect on timing. Altitude, climate, terrain, it all comes into effect. It all depends on what the tuning shows before modding takes place. That's why I tell people "You have to watch the tune up." Adding performance parts to a bad tune shows greater losses than one would suspect. Guys here that grew up on old school domestic and dubs know this all too well. Look at it like this, when a 4 banger making 100hp losses a cylinder, say by yanking a plug wire, you in theory lose 25%, drop a cylinder in an engine makin 200hp and you lose in theory 50hp. This is going to show on a grander scale. Duty cycle and loads play into it also. You have to seek tuning from the start, compensating comes into play from there.
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Old 12-22-2006, 05:50 AM   #18 (permalink)
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on a carb. motor its got to be running it to rich, this is not good for the #3 cly.


Hey, it beats running one lean with advanced timing any day
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Old 12-22-2006, 06:01 AM   #19 (permalink)
 
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However I know that a cam can make a HUGE difference in the way a motor runs.
More than you'd actually think. Here's something that really needs to be known. R-series heads, from the get go, do not flow equal from head to head. Castings go from almost perfect to total yuk. I've bought new heads from Toyota that could not be ported without welding in material. The difference a cam makes in an engine (22r,re,rte) is going to depend on the intake to exhaust flow deficit, the actual casting, seat undercuts, core shift, and overall combination, just to name a few factors. You can take any cam out there and bolt it in your engine and come out with a hit or miss, and this is because those factors are in play. Bigger bores are a huge player in this because the bore becomes an extension of the port itself. Valve sizing, seat and face angles, stem undercut, ramp profile, etc. COMBINATION!!



Quote:
I'm sure my tune is complete crap, and wish I knew as much about engines as I do steel fabrication.
I wish I knew that field..

Quote:
What kinds of simple things can be looked at when running a high lift cam?
Not certain what you mean.

Quote:
Also in my case I took a block and head, replace the head, and put the EFI system from my running motor on the newly built block. Aside from the Cam, injectors, and bore, should there be much of a difference in the operation/tune of the motor?
Motors are individual entities, they require tuning as a specific unit. You can build 2 indenticle engines, and both will want exactly what they want. No "generic" tuning, tune your engine for what it best likes.

Last edited by steveh; 12-22-2006 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 12-22-2006, 06:03 AM   #20 (permalink)
 
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on a carb. motor its got to be running it to rich, this is not good for the #3 cly.
It doesn't matter which cylinder it is NC, overly rich hurts the engine.
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Old 12-22-2006, 06:04 AM   #21 (permalink)
 
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Hey, it beats running one lean with advanced timing any day
True that. This is why pistons are so often seen as ashtrays and coffee table ornaments.
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Old 12-22-2006, 06:13 AM   #22 (permalink)
 
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maybe you could do a quick over view of the 'best bang for the buck' mods on a 22re in your experience?
It comes down to the size of what you're able to invest, or intend on investing, and the desired results you're seeking. Kinda like this, "I have $20.00, what is the best bang I can get for this?" It also depends on the current condition of the engine, adding stressors to a weak platform is a recipe for disaster. Give me an amount.
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Old 12-22-2006, 06:17 AM   #23 (permalink)
 
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Lets do specifics:
What is the correct procedure for installing a 22r/re camshaft?
Steveh, I wrote an article for 4wheel&Sport ute, this showed in detail cam install decriptions, in fact, it was the cam install on Camo's engine ;-) I will ask the Editor of the mag if I can submit this to you, and maybe you can pop it in here.
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Old 12-22-2006, 06:27 AM   #24 (permalink)
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It comes down to the size of what you're able to invest, or intend on investing, and the desired results you're seeking. Kinda like this, "I have $20.00, what is the best bang I can get for this?" It also depends on the current condition of the engine, adding stressors to a weak platform is a recipe for disaster. Give me an amount.

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Old 12-22-2006, 07:10 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I read an article in one of the 4x rags (not sure who wrote it, but I'll look) about changing out the camshaft. I was somewhat uncomfortable about their instructions. They prescribed R&Ring the camshafts without removing the cylinder head. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not really interested in loosing and removing all the head bolts, then removing the cam journal cap (with out moving the head). Installing the new camshaft and reinstalling journal caps - torque them to specs (without moving the head) and then reinstalling rocker assy and torque head bolts back down.

22r-re engines already have a really bad habit of blowing head gaskets. Aluminum head to a cast block. Why would you take the risk of, well, reusing the head gasket
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