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Old 08-12-2011, 11:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
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SUPER light spring rate?

The rig is a '91 toy truggy with toy running gear, tubed rear and 2"diameter, 16" FOA C/O's. I'll post a picture too.

I borrowed some 14/200 and 18/250 springs to throw on and test, since I don't have any way to weigh it. The 14" springs only compressed 1.75", which gives me 350lbs per corner (right?). By using FOA's spring rate calculator and other measurements, it recommends a 73lb main and a 48lb tender. To my knowledge, those don't exist. I've searched and read and read some more. Am I doing something wrong? Am I shit outta luck? Are air shocks my only option?
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Ttt

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Old 08-12-2011, 02:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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is the ride height acceptable?
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Not even close. It needs to come down another 6.25"
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Here's another pic to get a better idea of the rear end mass
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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did you have any preload on the springs?

how uptravel is left on the shocks

are you touching the cross over collars?
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksp04031 View Post
The rig is a '91 toy truggy with toy running gear, tubed rear and 2"diameter, 16" FOA C/O's. I'll post a picture too.

I borrowed some 14/200 and 18/250 springs to throw on and test, since I don't have any way to weigh it. The 14" springs only compressed 1.75", which gives me 350lbs per corner (right?).
Depending on how old the springs are and weight they have carried etc. The spring rat most likely isn't what is printed on the spring, thus I have found out racing asphault oval. You would need to re test the rate on a machine and most of the time the rate gets mor progressive after 1 1/2".
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:06 PM   #8 (permalink)
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did you have any preload on the springs?

how uptravel is left on the shocks

are you touching the cross over collars?
No preload, 10" (or close to) of shock travel left and collars are not touching. I was only using the springs to calculate the sprung weight.
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Here's another pic to get a better idea of the rear end mass
nice rig but looks like a pain in the ass to get in and out of with bars like that! but could just be the angle of the picture
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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nice rig but looks like a pain in the ass to get in and out of with bars like that! but could just be the angle of the picture
It's an even bigger pain in the ass to figure out spring rates for it.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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i'm new to links and coils, ets etc. so i can help with your problem, but can i ask why you need it to come down 6.25 inches in the back? or is that front and back, cause it looks to me that its sittin perty level, or maybe a tad low in the back. or maybe thats just the picture?

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Old 08-12-2011, 05:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
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i'm new to links and coils, ets etc. so i can help with your problem, but can i ask why you need it to come down 6.25 inches in the back? or is that front and back, cause it looks to me that its sittin perty level, or maybe a tad low in the back. or maybe thats just the picture?
Yes, the rear is lower than the front but I need it lower. The 4link was designed for 70% droop. Once the rear is dialed in, I'll link the front and ride heights will match.

Can anyone tell me if there's a minimum sprung weight to be able to run coilvers? Are air shocks my only option?
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
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looks like your around 600 lbs a corner. to achieve what you want youre going to need 100/150. its going to be damn near impossible to find those weights and lengths. check with AlumCJ he deals PAC springs who at KOH said they were going to be makin light weight springs.

or you can start messing with triple rates springs, but even then youll be hard pressed to get what you want.
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:16 PM   #14 (permalink)
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FOA has 14" tender coils as low as 80# and main springs as low as 100#. How did you get 600# per corner? In your opinion, should I just save the spring money and "spring" for some airshocks? Get it? "Spring"?
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Im going with 18" 200, 12" 100, and a triple rate
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:53 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Jegs has 14" Qa1 springs down to 60# if I remember right. :EDIT: they only sell down to 80# for $39.99 they have them in stock.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Might try a triple rate set up with varing spring rates, Like an 18" 200# main- 12" 100# sec and a 5# tender coil. (200x100)/(200+100)= 66lb initial rate.
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:02 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Might try a triple rate set up with varing spring rates, Like an 18" 200# main- 12" 100# sec and a 5# tender coil. (200x100)/(200+100)= 66lb initial rate.
Thanks for the responses. I'll definitely go with a triple rate setup, as the springs have unseat themselves in the past.

FOA's calculator says I need a 29lb initial spring rate The 200# tender spring compressed 1.75", which shows I have 350lbs @ each corner. As long as I didn't screw that up somehow, this is all telling me that Fox 2.0 air shocks will be my only option for this application. The 2.0's max out at a measly 500# per corner, so I would be well within their capacity. i would much rather go with C/O's (especially since i already have them) because of their adjustability.

I'm not understanding how you guys are coming up with much higher #'s than I am. What am I missing?
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
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16" 100# main with 14"80# tender and trip rate would be a initial rate of 44# in the end you are just gonna have to try a combo and see what works. On the front of mine I run a 14" 250 main with a 14" 100 tender with no trip rate on a 14" shock, its not a combo that most would run but it works great for me. If you want to sell those shocks pm me.
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:17 PM   #20 (permalink)
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looks like your around 600 lbs a corner. to achieve what you want youre going to need 100/150. its going to be damn near impossible to find those weights and lengths. check with AlumCJ he deals PAC springs who at KOH said they were going to be makin light weight springs.

or you can start messing with triple rates springs, but even then youll be hard pressed to get what you want.
Listen to him.

You have no weight over that rear end, which is why its not compressing. I agree with mobil1syn you need something like 100/150 and then you may still need a third helper spring to reduce further. You can find those wieghts using a 14" 2.0. If its a 16" then use a 100lb 14" on top and a 16" 200 lower. I dont think they have anything lower in the 16".
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Old 08-13-2011, 05:19 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Foa lists 16" and 18" springs all the way down to 100lb.
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Old 08-13-2011, 10:44 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Foa lists 16" and 18" springs all the way down to 100lb.
Correct. Please bare with me. I'm listening what you guys have to say, reading the CO bible as well as other posts but I'm just not completely understanding. My understanding is that your best spring combo for a 16" shock is an 18" main, 14" tender and a triple rate kit to keep the the springs seated during full droop. But as said before, that combo will only get me down to a 44# initial rate.

This is what was recommended by someone else: 18/100 main spring, 12/80 tender and triple rate kit lower. This is very similar to what you guys are recommending, just lower rates. Does running a 12" tender instead of a 14" tender w/ triple rate kit lower my initial rate even lower than 44#?
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Old 08-13-2011, 12:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Yes, the rear is lower than the front but I need it lower. The 4link was designed for 70% droop. Once the rear is dialed in, I'll link the front and ride heights will match.

Can anyone tell me if there's a minimum sprung weight to be able to run coilvers? Are air shocks my only option?
AHH!!! ok. sorry bout that
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Old 08-13-2011, 03:27 PM   #24 (permalink)
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You can always trade springs with foa, just pay shipping.

If you want really soft you could always try 100# 18" and a 10-12" 100# and a triple rate kit. The shorter upper will also help get the ride height down. There is also several other companies that make a 14" 85# if you want to try that.(then go with a 16" 100# lower)

Im just thinking you dont want to do to soft in case you hit something hard or drop off something you will botttom out fast unless u add air bumps also.
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Old 08-13-2011, 05:18 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksp04031 View Post
This is what was recommended by someone else: 18/100 main spring, 12/80 tender and triple rate kit lower. This is very similar to what you guys are recommending, just lower rates. Does running a 12" tender instead of a 14" tender w/ triple rate kit lower my initial rate even lower than 44#?
The initial rate will still be 44# it will just sit 2" lower than if you used a 14" tender, Its ok to run a shorter stack just keep in mind when you go to full droop you still want to have just enough tension to keep the bottom retainer from falling out. Or run a limiting strap. Have you tried a PM to Motochris to get his thoughts on it. He has been very helpful with a couple projects I have done.
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