Pirate 4x4 banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,926 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So just how strong/weak are they? Who's broken one (or more) and what did it take? I've got one under a big ole 'burban and trying to decide whether to go with the alloy axles/c-clip eliminators (or Warn FF kit) or just bite the bullet and 14b/D60. Running a pretty warm 383 in one end and going to 38's on the other. Haven't wheeled this one hard yet, but gotta get it ready for the spring. Yeah, I already know the answer, but gotta convince the wife before spending the $$$ on a 60. Tales of carnage?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,452 Posts
I've run a 12 bolt with 38.5x11 boggers and a 305.
Didn't have a problem.

Remember if you go Dana 60 with 38's you will loose ground clearance and get anchored more than if you keep the 12 bolt on 38's

Now I run dana 60's on 44's
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
My 12 bolt holds up semi fairly on the street, but i don think it will fair on the trail. And i have 39.5's. I know its gonna break soon, i can feel it. So if you can i would go to bigger axles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,403 Posts
I wouldn't run 38's with a 12 bolt if you do any serious wheelin. Do a full floater. You don't really need a 60, a 14 bolt is rated as strong as a 70. Look for the 14 bolts with the pinion plate that bolts on, thats the one you want! <IMG SRC="smilies/skull.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,926 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I was planning on D60 front, 14b-ff rear. If I beef up the D44 front and 12b rear, we can keep the rims; otherwise add that to the equation. If I go 14b-ff rear and big spindles / 8 lug front on the 44, it might live with Jess's new 4340 joint and alloy axles. And the big ole 'burban is heavy, and will be much heavier loaded.

A. 12b - d44 Warn ff kit, all alloy axles, joints : $1600. Less with Superior/Moser/Dutchman axles and c-clip eliminators.

B. 14b ff, d44 8-lug spindle-out swap and alloy axles, joints, wheels : ~$1600.

C. 14 b ff, d60, wheels. $2500.

Thoughts?

[ 10-16-2001: Message edited by: Lloyd ]

[ 10-16-2001: Message edited by: Lloyd ]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,083 Posts
A. 12b - d44 Warn ff kit, all alloy axles, joints : $1600. Less with Superior/Moser/Dutchman axles and c-clip eliminators.

B. 14b ff, d44 8-lug spindle-out swap and alloy axles, joints, wheels : ~$1600.

Ah, I think the strength factor here is a no brainer. My .02.... strength outweighs ground clearance here ,its a Suburban!!!

C. 14 b ff, d60, wheels. $2500.
You can always upgrade later to a D-60 front when you start breaking the 44.
Well just my .02
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,586 Posts
Those C-clip eliminators are over rated. They convert it to a Ford 9 style bearing set up. Ford 9's are prone to breaking bearing races when they get the wheel poped from the side. The end result it the broken chunk of the race 90% of the time will cut out the wheel seal. The cost of that kit you can often find a 14 bolt.
If your running anything over 36's a D60 and a 14 is the way to go. Even with the upgraded axle shafts in the front your still not correcting the real problem. The U-Joint size. All of those upgrade axles have a disclaimer in the warranty that if the U-Joint fails and the ears get bent that it is not covered. That is usualy what happens. Wasted money. The D60 will set you back but breaking one is rare.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,926 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Good to hear about the c-clip eliminators - thanks Grim, I don't have any experience with these. I guess what I'm really after here is R&P strength on the 12-bolt. I know the 14 ff is way stronger, but want to quantify just how much of an issue that is. Surely someone's broken one or more 12-bolts? I'd like to know what it takes. Hell, a guy here a few months ago broke a 14 bolt ff. Just after hard data to convince myself of what I already know - not to fix up something I'm going to destroy and would've been off better replacing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,586 Posts
Originally posted by Lloyd:
<STRONG>Good to hear about the c-clip eliminators - thanks Grim, I don't have any experience with these. I guess what I'm really after here is R&P strength on the 12-bolt. I know the 14 ff is way stronger, but want to quantify just how much of an issue that is. Surely someone's broken one or more 12-bolts? I'd like to know what it takes. Hell, a guy here a few months ago broke a 14 bolt ff. Just after hard data to convince myself of what I already know - not to fix up something I'm going to destroy and would've been off better replacing.</STRONG>
I have seen plenty of 9's fail like I described. Never saw a 12 fail with a busted shaft. I know plenty of folks running 12 including me. Many with 36's and 38's. We blew up all sorts of D44's and 10 fronts at Tellico but the 12's have been taking the abuse. Now R&P strenght gets worse as you go for more crawl. I would not recomend gearing one below 4.56. Never have seen a R&P go on a 12 though either. I am aware of 1 12 blowing spider gears.
Bottom line is you can get a 14 (around $200 if you look) with a Detroit ($300) for what the Detroit for a 12 would cost ($500). You can also find 14's with 4.56s easy and some even have lockers. finding a 4.56 detroited 14 for under $400 is not uncommon. That will save you some cash right there if your want that gear.
The downside is the clearence. I run 32's right now (fundage) on my 12. I have as much clearence as 35's with the 14 bolt.
Really depends on size tires, terrain and how heavy that right foot is. 33's I'd stick with the 1/2 ton stuff. It would take a long time before you bust enough axles to justify the D60 cost. over 36's and hard trails....You will catch up quick with axle shafts and hassle of changing them. Locking them doubles the chance of them blowing.
I got a deal on mine and was able to get into a matched set of axles (10 front 12 rear) Detroit in the back and a lockright in the front for less than a Detroit would have cost and I can sell them easy for more than I got in them.
I am waiting for that "can't pass it up deal" on a D60 front. When I find it I'll be going up to 36's for sure if not 38's with a lot of fender hacking.
If I was you running 38's...14 for sure and start looking for that D60.

[ 10-17-2001: Message edited by: Grim Reaper ]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,926 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Oh, I found the 60 - $1800. He'll throw in the 3/4 ton 14b-ff for $300. Both with 4.56, and open. Best I can tell that's all that's available in my state, at least for the front 60. Need wheels and driveshafts to go with 'em, otherwise just bolt in. We're building a house now, so I can think about it, discuss and debate, but can't actually do anything until that's finished; sometime near Christmas hopefully. Damn, its frustrating.

So you don't know what it takes to break a 12 either? I know a guy here who runs one in his old camaro; turns very low 9's with the original 327 (obviously highly modified); and another guy with a hot 396 who can't break his either. The guy with the fast 327 also has one in the back of his tow truck; it's tied to a 427 with a 6-71 blower! Now the front 44 has been through about six sets of Warn axles playing in rocks and mud, but he's not broken the 12 yet. All this is why I asked: I know it's more cost effective to get the 14 in back, but what does it really take to break a 12?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Lloyd,

Take a look at my post in the 4-sale section about D60/14B for sale in Texas. The axles are off CUCV's 4.56 w/Detroit and open 60 for $1600. The guy live in Roby, TX which is about 45 mi ne of Abilene. It would be worth the trip if you are interested.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,719 Posts
www.markwilliams.com they sell 35 spline spools for the 12B.
For a full size truck I feel they are not going to Get It if you are going to do some hard trails.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,083 Posts
You know the only r&p failures I have seen have been due to lack of oil and spiders breaking. For the most part they are a tough critter for what they are.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,265 Posts
D60 rear will work pretty good with 38's. I had one and wheeled it hard on a beater truck. No problems. As for front a D44 with some good axleshafts will work pretty well, just have to use a little less right foot when geting the front end up in the air. Trusses tend to help that D44 too
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,926 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Originally posted by Derf00:
<STRONG>Lloyd,

Take a look at my post in the 4-sale section about D60/14B for sale in Texas. The axles are off CUCV's 4.56 w/Detroit and open 60 for $1600. The guy live in Roby, TX which is about 45 mi ne of Abilene. It would be worth the trip if you are interested.</STRONG>

I couldn't find it - looked and did a couple of searches. Yeah, that'd be worth a trip. Save me $800 over the Albuquerque yards. Any more info? PM me if it's easier.

Dean, thanks for the link to the spool. Planning on the 14/60, but still checking options.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,586 Posts
Check the for sale section in the forums at www.coloradok5.com. few people in there sell them also. ThatK30guy does a lot of selling of them for very reasonable prices.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
If yer going to 38's then the Dana 60 front and 14 bolt rear or Dana 70 rear is gonna be the ticket. Especially on a Sub. I have a 77 K5 that (as Grim will attest) I wheel pretty hard. Got a D 44 front and 12 Bolt rear. Have 36x14.5x15 Swampers and the rear has held up just fine with Superior axle shafts and a Detroit Locker, also has 4.56 gears.

I keep blowing front ujoints which in turn takes out at least one of the stub shafts or the inner shaft. I am hot on the hunt for a Dana 60, might have just found one for 750.00

From my experience the 12 will take a lot of abuse, but the front D 44 the U joint is the weakest link.

Depdog <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
392 Posts
wow i am suprised to hear that nobody else has blown a 12 bolt. i am on my thrid one in 2 1/2 years. one lasted a year, the other 6 months. the one i have now is opened up and lasting longer than the others. the two that i grenaded were posi too that sucked. the if you are wondering how i blew them or what it takes. the first one i was pulling out of school, put it to the floor, the tranny shifted and my rear end locked up and slip to a stop. i had a shift kit but i was going 35 when it happened. sscared the crap out of me. the second one i was screwing around in the parking lot of the local gas station and power braked let off the brake and let the tires spin. at about 3 grand my rear end exploded inside. i have yet to break an axle but i am having problems with the r&p and the spider gears. when i open the cases all the gears fall out into the drain pan.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top