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Discussion Starter #1
can the tst fuel plate mod and propane injection be used? What kinda power would this produce? this is for a 12 valve cummins
 

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What year 12V and what tranny make a big difference. Personally i dont like nor do i recommend running drugs. I dont like propane in my diesels, and it depends on the metering of the propane nozzels. Give us some details and then well go from there. or better yet how much HP.... Torque do you want and for what purpose?
 

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buy a tranny first!!!!!! then look into mo power
 

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Discussion Starter #5
IM getting ideas, because im pretty sure i want the 12 valve, and definatly a 5spd. Well the tst mod says it will add up to 70hp and 205 ft pds of tourque. Id like to get around 700ft pds and 350 horse
 

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If you get a '96-'98 5 speed, a #10 TST plate is advertised at 330 hp and 750 ft lbs. You will most likely need a clutch, and air flow improvements are a good idea.

Pete
 

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with the #10 plate and a 3000 gsk in a 5 speed truck you can get over 300 hp and 700 ft lbs pretty easy by just sliding the plate forward some.

derek
 

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#10 irregardless of what ever year 12v motor it is. I can get more power out of a #10, timing and a gov spring kit than any other plate and better more usable power curve.

Depending on if it is a 49 state truck or a Cali truck and what year, the best years are 96-98 12v 215HP 49 state but even a 180/175hp version builds alot of power.

You will definately need a clutch 650 ft/lbs and things start slipping especially when you start pulling.

I would recommend finding a 1996-98 215HP

Put in a Pyrometer and Boost gauge
Check your intake tubing boots they tear by the radiator.

Next do.

4" Exhaust
#10 plate (can be slid forward to increase fueling (HP) after installation)
3000 rpm gov spring kit
Timing bumped to 16-16.5*
no higher youll be pushing the cylinder pressure and head gasket at 16* I ran 17* fo along time no problem and towing but 16* seemed to be a good sweet spot.

Look a Htturbo.com, they have a reasonably priced Hybrid 60mm stage 3 modification for your turbo add that with a 14cm WG exhaust housing (spools fast with the big intake fan, stock is 12cm watsegated, the 14cm lowers exhaust driver pressure from that of the 12)

Or a 16cm non wastegate housing (spools slower better with injectors, lower yet on exhaust drive (back pressure) pressure).

If you arent towing all the time and want the snappy horse power go with the 14cm you'll be happier, I towed witht he 16cm and loved it but many people who drove my truck didnt like the lag.

I suggest the turbo modification because of how well it increases the efficiency range of your turbo and helps cool down your EGT's, a 215 pump with a #10 runs warm especially with towing and is at the outer limits of the standard HX35, the modification extends that range and allows you to slide it forward and capitalize a little more on the potential power available.


Those mods with the timing will yeild you a fairly well ballanced setup that will push good snappy numbers tow well and leave you extra throttle to play with. 370HP aka. marine injectors are overkill until you want to jump up in turbo's to a B1 series or a HT2B or Twins
 

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12 valve mods/propane

I have a 97 CTD 12 valve with 160K miles and the original tranny, which i flush every 20k miles. I put a BD throttle plate and 41/2 inch exhaust on at 120k miles.I have bumped the boost up a couple of pounds and when the truck gets on step it pulls hard. I replaced the throttle positioning switch on a recall about 2 years ago and it seemed to help the shifting ( not so much early upshift). I am interested in a propane system after riding in a 97 12valve with the system and was damn impressed. I think a new tranny is a real possible side affect if to much is done, and power is addicting,keep that in mind.
 

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CTD's don't need propane... just add more fuel and the appropriate additional air...
 

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I've never tried propane on mine. #5 plate slid foward, modified hx35 (hate it) 3K governor springs, valve springs, 16 deg etc.... Runs way too hot and eats NV4500's. The harmonics on the transition from 15-20 psi to 32 psi are roung and honestly I think thats what kills my trannys. I'm pulling mine back down to the stock plate slid foward. I'll sure miss smoking the ricers tho'. :D If I ever get the cash for a 5600 I'll take it back up and see how it does, the gear splits on the 4500 aren't well matched for a bombed 12v and big weight.
 

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Rocktoyo said:
I've never tried propane on mine. #5 plate slid foward, modified hx35 (hate it) 3K governor springs, valve springs, 16 deg etc.... Runs way too hot and eats NV4500's. The harmonics on the transition from 15-20 psi to 32 psi are roung and honestly I think thats what kills my trannys. I'm pulling mine back down to the stock plate slid foward. I'll sure miss smoking the ricers tho'. :D If I ever get the cash for a 5600 I'll take it back up and see how it does, the gear splits on the 4500 aren't well matched for a bombed 12v and big weight.

Also your 12V DOES NOT NEED DRUGS (AKA Propane)


You say modified HX35, which one did you get. what intake fan size and what exhaust housing. Waste gate or none?

roung? rough???

the #5 plate slid forward is also a bitch, did you adjust the gov arm, if not odds are 9 times out of ten the gov is hanging up below the plate edge and then finally sucking itself up and onto the plate. Honestly i have had and tried all the plates, i still have a POS #5 laying around and IMPO the #10 is the best plate all around. I can build more power smoother with a #10 in a 175 or 180HP pump slid all the way forward and then back roughly 1/16" and the gov arm adjusted than you can with the #5 on a good day. the #5 has a steep ramp which causes the hard fuelling and rough transition you are describing also it overfuels at the wrong times and is hard to control so that leads to the heat also.

the exhaust housing you are using could be creating the lag if your fueling is not in sync.
 

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ddestruel said:
Also your 12V DOES NOT NEED DRUGS (AKA Propane)


You say modified HX35, which one did you get. what intake fan size and what exhaust housing. Waste gate or none?

roung? rough???

the #5 plate slid forward is also a bitch, did you adjust the gov arm, if not odds are 9 times out of ten the gov is hanging up below the plate edge and then finally sucking itself up and onto the plate. Honestly i have had and tried all the plates, i still have a POS #5 laying around and IMPO the #10 is the best plate all around. I can build more power smoother with a #10 in a 175 or 180HP pump slid all the way forward and then back roughly 1/16" and the gov arm adjusted than you can with the #5 on a good day. the #5 has a steep ramp which causes the hard fuelling and rough transition you are describing also it overfuels at the wrong times and is hard to control so that leads to the heat also.

the exhaust housing you are using could be creating the lag if your fueling is not in sync.

wastegated 35, spools well but I need more than 38 psi. (the 35 is maxxed at 38-40, the 40 will make 48 with a bit more lag) I'm not sure on the inlet wheel, Piers sent it to me.

The ramp on the 5 would work well for a auto, the arm has been played with, both up and down from the tip of the ramp. The further up the ramp it is, the more controlable it is. With a 35, there is no way to balance the fuel to boost curves, with twins...maybe. Of course, the further up the ramp the arm is, the smokier it is. I'm thinking about a 8 or a 10 after I get the tranny right. (honestly, I think I have a badly machined or cast case, the only thing I can think of is case stretch) I also am thinking about tightening the star wheel in a effort to slow the fueling until it hits 32 psi, then let it loose. That might get the 2 curves better matched and ease that rough transistion and those scarey harmonics. I wonder if the 5 plate might make more with higher boost numbers and more "fine" tuning but, I aint got the money to play with turbos. I also think 4:10 gears vs the 3:50's I have would be helpful if I continued to run the 5. (I think it would be a lot less trouble to use the 5 as a paperweight and buy a 8 or a 10.
 

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Piers uses a 58mm intake blade which is only one size up, the largest available HX40 blade that is also used by a few other companies is a 60mm and those can be trimmed instead 8 blades they are putting on six supposedly resistance and more volume at hgher RPMs. Match it with a 16cm exhaust housing and you will pushing the limits of the turbo's efficiency range and approaching that of the HX40's. My setup would goto 42-45 psi. which was a polished 16sm housing and the htturbo 6 blade 60mm HX35/40. My HX40 with 16cm W/G housing woulclick 45 psi also and lag was about the same EGT's were the same too, within 50*'s across the curve. my complaint was i only got 60k miles out the two HX40's between rebuilds (one piers and one htturbo) and i got 125k-150k miles each out of the Htturbo HX35/40's. Take that for what its worth i used to tow with it all the time.

I have heard interesting things from guys who are tickled since they ditched thier HX40's for HT2B's or KSB1's. Sounds like your needing more volume not just boost. Past 32psi the Piers HX35 begins to super heat the air mine at 35 psi did the same thing and my HX40 started heating the intake air around 36psi. (had a temp gauge on intake side also)

Adjusting the star wheel is a good place to start, i always ran mine pretty light just a burst of black at full throttle start then dull haze all the way through. also you should be able to trade the #5 for a #8 or #10 ussually TST and Piers charge $50 to exhange a plate.

Twins arent too bad. a void the kit build em yourself. flip the manifold use your HX35 and current exhaust housing order up a HT3B with 24cm exhaust housing $400-600 depending on what mods you have done to the turbo. Tubing is at $1000. Set the top turbo wastegate at 44-48psi. I helped spec out and layout a setup for a friend who hotshots, he has been running it since we put it in 140k miles and two years ago at 44 psi on a stock head gasket, no Orings no problems. other guys running hte same setup whio pushed thier timing past 16* and the boost past 50 psi all poped thier gaskets.

Just some tid bits.
 

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I think my 12v buildup is conservatively and smartly built...

1. tripple guage pillar pod (trans/boost/egt)
2. #10 TS plate
3. AFE intake kit & filter
4. 3K governor spring kit (here, but not installed)
5. built auto tranny (planned, but not yet scheduled)

Works for me :)
 

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ddestruel said:
Twins arent too bad. a void the kit build em yourself. flip the manifold use your HX35 and current exhaust housing order up a HT3B with 24cm exhaust housing $400-600 depending on what mods you have done to the turbo. Tubing is at $1000. Set the top turbo wastegate at 44-48psi. I helped spec out and layout a setup for a friend who hotshots, he has been running it since we put it in 140k miles and two years ago at 44 psi on a stock head gasket, no Orings no problems. other guys running hte same setup whio pushed thier timing past 16* and the boost past 50 psi all poped thier gaskets.

Just some tid bits.
Sounds interesting, got any more info on this setup? I'm currently running the stock turbo, and have put off buying a bigger one because I really can't handle the thing spooling any slower than it does.

Pete
 

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Get ahold of schieds diesel.... I think thats who it was. Teh turbo is an HT3b I recall it being a the smallest available for that turbo 22cm exhaust housing ported and polished for $600. If i recall the options might have been 22cm, 24cm and a 26cm exhaust.

For his towing application we decided that the smaller housing would spool quickly and since he only wanted into the 425-450hp arena for towing high rpm flow wouldnt be an issue nor would super boost, he wanted instant response and spool up. All we did was flip the stock exhaust manifold (though i recommend buying an ATS version) mounted the stock HX35 ontop and used the stock 12cm exhaust housing with a new (ordered from scheids) Wastegate told them we were doing twins they suggested the different wastegate. Otherwise it was pretty simple after that we took it to an exhasut shop they cut and fit all the pieces, hung the HT3b off the downward exhaust pipe coming off the HX35 with a welded on flange for the HT3b to bolt to. Then routed the air into the HT3b inlet first then out and around to the normal air inlet ... the big inlet on the HX35 and then down to the intercooler. Exhaust came through the HX35 then out and into the HT3b and out a 5" pipe that we necked down to 4".


I will say the HX35/12 is really quick to spool i thought that witht he volume of air coming in from t he HT3b/24 that the 22 cm housing would have quickened/increased the big turbo's volume of air to the little turbo and that the HX35/14 would have been a little slower to toally spool and keep the boost /turbo speed down a little and flowed a little better on long pulls but obviously hes had great luck with it and hasnt touched it since we got the wastegate dialed in......... He never gets his RPMs above 2500 and seldomnly uses all 44psi of boost available but with 370's a #10 and the twins he gets a consistant 18mpg and can get 20+ empty.

I think i have a picture of how the tubing was welded together on someone elses that might help too PM me and ill email it to you.
 

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I'm not setup for pms, and the email listed for you isn't working--if you could sent the pics to [email protected], I would appreciate it.

Pete
 

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Any idea on what his total cost for the setup was?

(One of the pics that was emailed to me, for whoever else may be following the thread).

Pete
 

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