Pirate 4x4 banner

1441 - 1460 of 1572 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
442 Posts
Wonderful build thread, thanks for keeping this alive. I've left this open on my laptop for the last week or so going through all the years of progress and finally got caught up before posting this.

Anyways, now that you have some trail time under your belt on this rig, I am curious if you could provide a lengthy review of the Ecobox and 205 pairing. How do you like it with the ring and pinion choice, the tire size, the 4L80E, the power of the engine, the weight you carry around, what pairing of gears do you find you use the most, ect?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
Looking good as always! Chromos should treat you well! Hopefully you can do a better job being nice to your ujoints than I've done :homer:


Also reminding me that winter is cruising by and my truck is out back looking like a snowman instead of getting worked on.
 

·
E-Locker or Bust!
Joined
·
4,271 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,443
Wonderful build thread, thanks for keeping this alive. I've left this open on my laptop for the last week or so going through all the years of progress and finally got caught up before posting this.

Anyways, now that you have some trail time under your belt on this rig, I am curious if you could provide a lengthy review of the Ecobox and 205 pairing. How do you like it with the ring and pinion choice, the tire size, the 4L80E, the power of the engine, the weight you carry around, what pairing of gears do you find you use the most, ect?
I actually was recently a guest on a friend's offroad podcast and talked a little bit about this. Check em out, and I'm specifically on episode 3.

https://open.spotify.com/show/6LL95sLySeLmCXOInxE8Ft

Anyway, the cliff notes are as follows:

The 4L80E has a terrible 1st gear (2.48:1). This is bad on-road and off-road. It also wasn't that cheap to swap in - cost me well over $1000 with the used trans, tuning, harness adjustments, cooler lines, flex plate, and whatever else was needed. Were I to do it again, I'd probably try and find a well-built 4l65e or 4l70e and swap that in instead. This would have brought my crawl ratio to 74.4:1 with the 3.06:1 first gear of the 4L60/70e.

With the doubler in single-low in the EcoBox (same low range as the NP241), I have to give it a lot of gas to climb stuff and thus have a lot less control - so a 4l80e and an NP241 would have sucked a bit.

Axle gears will help, though. 4.56s are way too long for 40s with most 3/4 speed transmissions. I selected 4.56s when I built the truck because I never expected to go to 40s. They were great with 37s. I have a set of 5.13s in the garage that will go in when I swap to a selectable locker up front. 5.38s would be better in-town but I'd be close to 3000rpm on the highway going 80mph, so I think 5.13s will be just right.

That being said... I'm dealing with the poor 1st gear on-road (not going to win any street races) and offroad I'm sure glad I have the doubler. My crawl ratio comes out to 60.2:1 which is decent for an automatic transmission rig in my opinion. It has a lot of control on obstacles and going to 5.13s gets me a tiny bit more low range (67.8:1) and I think that's where I'll settle, ultimately.

Overall, I like it a lot. It's super stout, never has issues overheating, and there's tons of gearing and drive options. I don't use front dig that often, so in hindsight, I probably should've gone with an Ecobox/NV271 instead - then my crawl ratio would be 83.6:1 with my current axle gears. It's not really worth it for me to change at this point, though - unless I grenade the NP205 which is unlikely. :eek: :laughing:

Looking good as always! Chromos should treat you well! Hopefully you can do a better job being nice to your ujoints than I've done :homer:
What kind of u-joints do you use? You've also got a lower crawl ratio and 42s... :flipoff2:

Also reminding me that winter is cruising by and my truck is out back looking like a snowman instead of getting worked on.
Get out there!
 

·
E-Locker or Bust!
Joined
·
4,271 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,444 (Edited)

·
E-Locker or Bust!
Joined
·
4,271 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,445
I made it up an obstacle I never had before and so did Grohe, so I was super stoked with the trip. His rig held up perfectly and he has just a few minor issues to address that he already knew about.

Mine held up, but not perfectly :laughing:.

Sitting low:


Broke the lower leaf spring on the driver side and kept wheeling the easier obstacles. Got back to the parking lot to leave... and the middle one had also broken. So I took it SUPER easy and limped the truck home going 55mph and slowing for all railroad tracks, bridges, and rough spots. Made it safely and took this picture:





So now I'm looking into new rear leaf spring setups and thinking seriously about dropping some coin on custom rear leaves and going back to a tension shackle setup. Lots of research to do now, though. Short term, I'll probably just stab another junkyard set of springs in it.
 

·
E-Locker or Bust!
Joined
·
4,271 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,447
How did they fail / could you tell how they failed? Were your caps tack welded?

Bggrnchvy mentioned to me that he had caps spinning inside his Yukon chromos and eventually got so loose they started having issues.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,847 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,073 Posts
They never show up for me... updates suck when it's just blackness with a negative sign in the middle...

Nice job on the spring pack derek!
You looking at deaver long travels or something similar? Just curious where you're going after this. I figured links would be next for you though?!?!
 

·
E-Locker or Bust!
Joined
·
4,271 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,450
None of the google user content pics are showing up?
Try again on that post, I didn't double check in incognito mode. They work for me now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
How did they fail / could you tell how they failed? Were your caps tack welded?

Bggrnchvy mentioned to me that he had caps spinning inside his Yukon chromos and eventually got so loose they started having issues.
Both the u joint failures I had two opposing trunions sheared off from the body clean. On the one that failed on me in low range in the rock garden at Mt Mud Run, the two yoke ears on the broken side shaft had the sheared trunions and caps still in them! Unfortunately when it unloaded and I backed out the shafts contacted and tweaked the ears and made re-assembly impossible.

 

·
E-Locker or Bust!
Joined
·
4,271 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,452
Damn! That's a strange break in my opinion.

Hopefully the superjoints do the trick for you!
 

·
E-Locker or Bust!
Joined
·
4,271 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,453
Videos from the past trip:




 

·
E-Locker or Bust!
Joined
·
4,271 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,454 (Edited)
Do I get kudos for doing more work than necessary? :flipoff2:

Despite wanting to go to a tension shackle setup and Deavers/Alcans/Atlas custom springs in the rear after breaking my rear leaf... I picked up a set of 2500 springs to get the truck roadworthy again. My wife and I are on a tighter budget this year so it'll be a couple months before I can save the scratch for the custom setup (I estimate around $1500 for springs, new perches to adjust pinion angle, and new shackle hangers).

Anywho... I should have just bolted the rusty fuckers in the truck and called it good... but here we are.

I continually love my choice in DD / go-fast car / parts runner :laughing:


Ordered new friction pads for it, too. They'll be here Wednesday and I can button the pack up and start working on getting it in the truck.


Already started drawing up a tension shackle hanger. The only non-factory ones I can find were pretty damn expensive and this one I can play with the shackle location to adjust pinion angle and account for a longer shackle if I want. Plus it's beefier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,422 Posts
What is your wheelbase on this? It seems to work good, do you wish it were shorter or longer, or is it just right?
Travis..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,847 Posts
Do I get kudos for doing more work than necessary? :flipoff2:

Despite wanting to go to a tension shackle setup and Deavers/Alcans/Atlas custom springs in the rear after breaking my rear leaf... I picked up a set of 2500 springs to get the truck roadworthy again. My wife and I are on a tighter budget this year so it'll be a couple months before I can save the scratch for the custom setup (I estimate around $1500 for springs, new perches to adjust pinion angle, and new shackle hangers).

Anywho... I should have just bolted the rusty fuckers in the truck and called it good... but here we are.

I continually love my choice in DD / go-fast car / parts runner :laughing:


Ordered new friction pads for it, too. They'll be here Wednesday and I can button the pack up and start working on getting it in the truck.


Already started drawing up a tension shackle hanger. The only non-factory ones I can find were pretty damn expensive and this one I can play with the shackle location to adjust pinion angle and account for a longer shackle if I want. Plus it's beefier.
Now these aren't available...
 

·
E-Locker or Bust!
Joined
·
4,271 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,457 (Edited)
Now these aren't available...
IDK what's going on this time. I checked them when I made the post and they worked and now they're not no matter what I do.

What is your wheelbase on this? It seems to work good, do you wish it were shorter or longer, or is it just right?
Travis..
133"

I'd say its good but not great. The only thing I don't like it about it is breakover angle isn't the best. I don't care if I drag belly, but it does keep me from getting up stuff from time to time. I can't really go much shorter without the bed being utterly useless or the rear tires being in the back of the cab. A reg cab wheelbase is a lot more maneuverable and will have better breakover if everything else is the same as mine.

That said, for as top heavy as this thing is, it sure is nice having the extra wheelbase over most jeeps when doing climbs and descents. I really like how it performs compared to the old wheelbase and have very little wish to shorten it further.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,847 Posts
IDK what's going on this time. I checked them when I made the post and they worked and now they're not no matter what I do.
Whatever you did fixed the issue:laughing:
 

·
E-Locker or Bust!
Joined
·
4,271 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,459
Whatever you did fixed the issue:laughing:
I didn't do anything. Perhaps the google public server was temporarily down or something.

Whatever, it works now!
 

·
E-Locker or Bust!
Joined
·
4,271 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,460 (Edited)
So... apparently, not all spring packs are created equally (duh!) even from truck to truck. I'm guessing there's a year break or trim level difference but anyway... doing some calculations to determine spring rates of the old leaf pack compared to the new one (or combinations of the new one with springs removed). The spring dimensions are listed below with the amount of sag at ride height approximated by the unsprung weight fully loaded.

Old:
Main: .403 x 64"
Middle: .403 x 60.25"
Bottom: .433 x 51"
Spring rate: 227.07 lb/in - Squat = 7.49"

New pack (4 Leaves):
Main: .403 x 64"
Middle: .359 x 59.5"
Middle: .359 x 55.25"
Bottom: .378 x 51"
Spring rate: 250.7 lb/in - Squat = 6.78"

New pack (3 Leaves):
Main: .403 x 64"
Middle: .359 x 59.5"
Bottom: .378 x 51"
Spring rate: 190.94 lb/in - Squat = 8.90"

New pack (3 Leaves, alt):
Main: .403 x 64"
Middle: .359 x 55.25"
Bottom: .378 x 51"
Spring rate: 202.85 lb/in - Squat = 8.38"

Looks to me like the truck will ride around 3/4" higher than previously if I do nothing. Most likely I'll chop the overload down to become a zero rate and remove my 2" block. This will lower the rear about half an inch (assuming the overload is around 3/4" thick, I didn't measure it yet), which should be fine to get me through until I can afford some fancy springs and convert to a tension shackle setup. Flex won't be quite as good, but my fancy photographer buddy who rode with me (@mattspitchers on IG) took this shot and I think I'll be okay with a 10% stiffer rear end. This is before the driver's side spring broke, before anyone asks :flipoff2:



I toyed with the idea of cutting the old main leaves down to size, but then I can't bring a spare main leaf with me and I'd really like to do that just in case there's ever a catastrophic failure.

The other option is for me to ditch the 6" shackle and put my 4" shackle in, leaving the 2" block in place. I think this would mess with the pinion angle too much, though.
 
1441 - 1460 of 1572 Posts
Top