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Discussion Starter #1
Howdy;

Posted this in newbie; but probably is more tech related than "can I put beadlocks on my 10 speed?" (You cant; I searched the FAQ.. ) :flipoff2:



I just picked up a totally rust free 86 4Runner; 22RE; totally bone stock and un-molested. Really a great score.. I swear I looked at about 10 1st gens all mostly junk or whored out..

PO snapped a timing chain a few months ago and did a total rebuild. I purchased it with supposedly less than a 100 miles on the rebuild.

I will post later (On a Tuesday of course) a symptom and fix for all of the issues I am coming across. (the PO was not having a good day doing this rebuild; install or tuning.. ) I am going to split all of the issues I am resolving and post them up (Some are in the FAQ but a few were not)

So; my question today is:

Early EFI to late EFI swap; in this case the intake manifold. I have the upper intake from a 90 22RE as a spare but no lower. I am not planning on swapping the entire EFI setup; just the upper half of the intake.

1. I have read that there is a performance improvement. Does anyone have real experience in this swap?
2. Is the lower intake the same for a early and a late? (Discounting injectors; looking at it from a performance standpoint)
3. Cold start idle air bypass (Air Valve). These are different designs from a 86 to a 90. Any one have any issues in swapping to the 90 style? It looks like it takes up much less space.

Thanx..
 

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Early EFI to late EFI swap; in this case the intake manifold. I have the upper intake from a 90 22RE as a spare but no lower. I am not planning on swapping the entire EFI setup; just the upper half of the intake.

1. I have read that there is a performance improvement. Does anyone have real experience in this swap?

You will gain 2.135436929 HP increase with this swap:D Do not put on any Crawler Turtle stickers on your rig with this mod as you will lose HP/performance. Instead you'll need to put on TRD Stickers as this will net you an additional 5-10HP increase


2. Is the lower intake the same for a early and a late? (Discounting injectors; looking at it from a performance standpoint)

Same lower for both early & late

3. Cold start idle air bypass (Air Valve). These are different designs from a 86 to a 90. Any one have any issues in swapping to the 90 style? It looks like it takes up much less space.

Unbolt the old one and hook up the coolant lines to the newer t-body
Thanx..
Here is a pic of a later upper intake/t-body on my 86 4runner. Just plug & play...
 

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Gravity Works!
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Almost everything is different between the 86 and the 90 EFI systems. Can't answer you on the lower intake but it could be because the injectors are different. Why not just change it too?
 

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So; my question today is:

Early EFI to late EFI swap; in this case the intake manifold. I have the upper intake from a 90 22RE as a spare but no lower. I am not planning on swapping the entire EFI setup; just the upper half of the intake.

1. I have read that there is a performance improvement. Does anyone have real experience in this swap?
2. Is the lower intake the same for a early and a late? (Discounting injectors; looking at it from a performance standpoint)
3. Cold start idle air bypass (Air Valve). These are different designs from a 86 to a 90. Any one have any issues in swapping to the 90 style? It looks like it takes up much less space.

Thanx..
1. I've done this twice. I did not notice any major improvement in performance from that mode, though I did install a bored throttle body at the same time and there may have been some improvement there. I do believe it helped, though.

2. They are different, but the difference is so minor most folks won't notice. The one difference is with the early lower intake. It has TWO ports at the temp sensor which make it easy to install another, aftermarket, sensor. The late model does not. The late model upper is a straight bolt on to the early lower.

3. The Air Flow Valve goes away when you install the late upper intake. Just unbolt and toss. You will need to re-route the coolent lines to the throttle body.

I did two short stories on this at: #1, and #2.

HTH
 

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Just ditching that Aux Air Valve makes it worth it. The heater coil in those burns up with age and quits working.

The Built in air valve in the late model TB works so much better for cold starts.

Electricly, the connector that goes to it is just supplying 12v to the heater coil, so it's no problem to leave it disconnected. I do recommend capping it so there is no way it can touch ground and cause a short.

Hose wise, i just got the later model hoses from the dealer. I'll see if i can find the receipt and post the P/N's. Any decent parts guy should be able to look them up.

The upper port near the t-stat housing may need to be tapped for a brass pipe fitting to replace the press in 90 elbow some older rigs have if using the older lower runners. I'm sure the 90 could be used with creative hose routing. The late model lower is already set up for the right fitting there

Make sure to use a combo of Teflon tape and a good thread sealer (Blue Magic is great stuff) on all the threaded fittings so there are no leaks

Lastly, you will need a late model throttle cable and bracket to replace the early style.
 

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back from the dead... i was going to pm pappy but he has not been online in 9 months.

i did this swap and i want to say there was an issue with the tps sensor from the newer tb and the 87 harness i had. i am having drivability issues that i think is due to the tps. do i have a weird year tb or should all the tps sensors fit one another? i know reading the tps check procedure the newer ones have different resistances than the older. on that note does the ecu have to match the tps? many questions, and the more i look the more questions i have! thanks for the help.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
back from the dead... i was going to pm pappy but he has not been online in 9 months.

i did this swap and i want to say there was an issue with the tps sensor from the newer tb and the 87 harness i had. i am having drivability issues that i think is due to the tps. do i have a weird year tb or should all the tps sensors fit one another? i know reading the tps check procedure the newer ones have different resistances than the older. on that note does the ecu have to match the tps? many questions, and the more i look the more questions i have! thanks for the help.

Yes; there are 3 or 4 points to keep in mind.
TPS can be different, You have a Idle vacuum pot to contend with when setting TPS and something else my muddy brain is having issues with.
I document pretty much everything. Give me a day to locate the images and I will post up.

I probably missed it; but please post what year you are swapping to..

Thanx
 

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ok... that is what i did, 87 truck/harness and ecu. i want to say i had to joky it around to get it to work... but i cannot remember. i tested the ohms and they checked out but i have not checked the voltage. i looked at crawlers site and it is chalk full of goodness. thanks for the help.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Re: which TPS to use. You want to use a TPS for the year of the truck, not the year the TB came from.

The best guide to testing and adjusting the TPS is Roger Brown's 4crawlerm.com tech tips.
Please sticky this.. I will edit it later with images. It contains the paddle swap instructions and the proper process to set the TPS with the old style idle up Vacuum pot.


Having ISP issues (And it's really a double whammy when you are your OWN Internet Service Provider..:shaking: ) As soon as I can I will post images as to how I swapped mine.

Early TB and late mod TB may have a different layout for the TPS.
As SteveH stated you must use the TPS from the old TB.


Here is the skinny in the mean time.
  1. Remove both throttle bodies.
  2. Record the part numbers for the older TPS and the newer one (You will not be using the new one)
  3. Pull both TPS.
  4. Manually actuate the original TPS and check for binding; it's very common.
  5. Lay the old TPS on it's back and fill it with WD-40. Let it soak in and clean \ lube the wiper as you perform the next step. (Every used TPS I have pulled was sticky..)
  6. Inspect the "paddles" bolted to the butterfly by a single nut for alignment. Do not be surprised if they are clocked differently. My 86 was clocked at around 90, and the 92 was clocked at around 0.
  7. If they are clocked differently, carefully remove and mark the old paddle position on the circle area of the old TB, and set aside. A marker or pencil works well.
  8. Remove the butterfly from the "new" throttle body and swap the old in it's place. Made darn sure the clocking matches the old throttle body.
  9. Lube the throttle plate while you have it apart. You may want to replace the packing.
  10. Place loctite on the TB nut, and check for smooth actuation.
  11. Drain the WD from the TPS and test it with a ohm meter. If it checks out OK; install it. If not, replace it.
  12. Drop the TPS onto the mount ring and manually verify it properly mates with the butterfly paddles. You drop it on "Before" the paddles and rotate it into to place.
  13. Snug the screws, do not tighten them. Test for proper operation with a ohm meter
  14. Reattach the Throttle body.
  15. If your old TB had a vacuum pot touching the idle screw, move it over. It is designed to kick the idle up if the engine tries to die. Great for crawling. It will also shoot you in the foot when to either test for codes with the engine off; and when setting the TPS.
  16. You must defeat the vacuum dashpot when setting the TPS or reading codes. I used a spring. It must be pulled fully in to set TPS. With no vacuum on the dashpot, it extends the plunger for higher idle. This is enough to allow you to set it improperly and to throw codes with the engine off; or to foul up timing and idle when running.

    This is a simple in process; but takes time to perform. Cleaning and setting the TPS is important. Timing and idle will not be as expected if you do not.

    My 86 with the later model TB runs circles around my 93; but that's probably due to the over porting, Stupid big header and crappy Crawler cam I installed. There is a lot to be said about the stock cast iron tri-Y manifold Toyota developed, and a modern high flow cat.

    Hope this helps.... Elvis




 

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This is good info. The search function really does work newbs.:eek:

I'm having to swap the "straight" plenum and TB from a 93 onto my 87 Runner because the tcase is raised up so much that the intake tube and radiator hose are trying to occupy the same space. The straight plenum solved my problem.
 

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Thanks for all the info guys. I have an 86 that the "paddles" on the tb is striped so that it just rotates. I bought an upper plenum with tb from a junk yard but found out its out of an 89. I cant swap the paddles because of mine being worn. I havent decided yet if I am going to continue the swap to a later plenum and tb or find one from an 86.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks for all the info guys. I have an 86 that the "paddles" on the tb is striped so that it just rotates. I bought an upper plenum with tb from a junk yard but found out its out of an 89. I cant swap the paddles because of mine being worn. I havent decided yet if I am going to continue the swap to a later plenum and tb or find one from an 86.
Pull the screws out of the butterfly, and swap the shaft.

Use threadlocker.

BTW, my '86 runs very well with the later model plenum. Just getting rid of the idle motor is worth it.
 

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I swapped a cressada (5mge)throttle body at the same time as when I did my conversion, so I can't say how much better just the intake manifold is vs what I did. The cressada is 60mm vs our 55mm. I was even able to use the cressada TPS, it was the same. Had to fabricate a braket to hold the throttle cable, but it was all good. I eliminated the coolant hoses to the throttle body also, I wanted as much cold air as possible. It seems to pull a little better, even after adding a front winch bumper and a tube rear bumper. I spend more time in 5th than I used to.
 

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Elvis did you still have any of those pics from your swap? I'm going to try to do the swap while im doing a rebuild of a 85 22re since I had a 90 something intake sitting on my shelf. I think I have a decent grasp of what to do but I just like to have a visual before starting something
 

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Subscribed. I have an 85 with the later upper and loooking to do some work on it. This thread is great!
Thx.
 

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Hi Blazer,

I'm a newbie to this kind of forums and at 4runners also, 3 months ago i got an 87 in decent shape and i'm looking at doing the same kind of mod that you did, i already got the tb from a cressida and the upper intake (don't know which year but it's the newer kind) and have some questions:

1) how deep you need to go on the plenum at the time of porting it?
2) the newer plenum is missing a couple of ports:
a) the one where the front pcv hose on the vlave cover connects to the old style,
from what i've read on others forums i can just plug an air filter but just wanted to
know how you did it.
b) the other port is the one just below the cold start injector that from what i can
see on my current setup it goes to the aux air valve, and i think i would be still
using that valve so to where can i plug that hose?

3) my current tb has a port with a hose that connect to a valve that it's also has a hose
connected to another valve in the p/s pump that the cressida dosen't have, will it
affect if i just tapped both ports?

4) the tb from the creesida does not have the tps can I use the one that I'm currently
have since i know its working.

any help on this i will apreceiate a lot.

Thanks.
 

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I just got finished swapping in the Later style Plenum and throttle body onto my 85 22re. All things considering I ran into a few minor issues but I am very impressed with the results. My throttle response is much better.

I will edit this post a little later with the part #'s for the hoses and gaskets I got.
 

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any information that you can provide i'll apreciate to be able to do the swap, my main concern is where to plug the air valve hose since the new plenum doesn't have a port for it, i'm not using the newer tb so i need to keep the old air valve.

Thanks
 
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