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Discussion Starter #1
My 78 w200 has sat up for 2 years without running. Before it sat it had aquired 140k on it and was burning oil. I want to rebuild the motor. I woul dbe doing this with my dad in law who is a diesel mechanic (farmer) so im confident that it will be done right - im just not sure where to look for getting a rebuild kit.

searching the wide world of web i found this
flatlander racing
anyone ever used this comp? recomend someone else?

will rebuilding it with a kit stop the truck from burning oil? its not burning bad but 2 yeasr ago i would have to add a little everytime before ide go hunting - about a quart a month. (sorry for such a greengills newby question)

btw- it has edlebrock performer intake and 600cfm edlebrock performer carb. this truck had plenty of juice back in the day.

there is a NAPA about 45miles away so i might call them and see if they carry master overhaul kit.
 

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Seeing how old it is, there is a good chance that rebuilding it should take care of your problems.

I have a question for you though... How set are you on rebuilding it? For the cost of rebuilding it, you could probably find a good running late model EFI motor. It would make the truck more drivable and you may get better mileage as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
i was hoping to get away with rebuilding it in the $500 ball park. in my mind getting a used efi motor+computer+wiring harness would put me near $1500. or do you think that is off? looking car-part.com 318 w 120k on it is $1000.

i would definately love to have the added power and econ of efi. i wonder if rebuild + efi conversion would be worthwhile? probably cost as much or more than halfdecent used motor.
 

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Have you ever rebuilt a motor before? I have a feeling that you are going to be spending more than $500 to do it right... The machine work is what costs money...

For the EFI motor, you are probably about right on cost, but some of it depends on your area and their pricing there. I still think that you will come out about even if you did an EFI swap vs. rebuilding your current motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
i have not built a motor by myself before. ive been involved with rebuilding a couple diesel motors and a overhaul 258 in the cj5.

i was going to have the crank turned and the cylanders bored out - local machine shop quoted me $200. What should i be asking the guy? he seems to know his stuff and is an uncle of a friend. i have no place to compare to since hes the only one around - is this good, bad, about right?

master overhaul kit includes Pistons, Rings, Gaskets, Cam Bearings, Rod Bearings, Main Bearings, Oil Pump, Freeze Plugs, Camshaft, Lifters, Pre-lube, and Timing Set for $340. besides little oddball things that are bound to come up what else do i need to be considering? i guess that list is closer to $700 than $500. what are the big things im missing?

believe me if i can justify getting a decent used or rebuilt efi for close to the price of the rebuild ill pinch my pennies a bit longer and go for it.

i guess my original thinking was use what i got and learn how to rebuild by myself with help nearby...but im always open to change.

i appreciatte your help mondtster!
 

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I'm just finishing up a rebuild on a tbi 360 and doing the efi conversion in my 79 ramcharger. I have abt 2k into the rebuild and alot of time into the efi conversion. Luckily (if I can convince myself that it was lucky) I found a complete setup at pick-n-pull and walked out on half price day for $125, but now 10 months later and abt 3k total to do it right in my mind it's about done. So if you can find a running donor truck with a solid engine, I say go for it, cause a good rebuid will cost you more than $500.

just my opinion though.
 

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you can do it

i would not hesitate to rebuild a motor on 500$. it just depends how far you want to take it and what you can do yourself. the way that we rebuild motors is always to the bare mimimum. unless we are looking for more hp out of it. you can rebuild a motor on a 500$, it depends if how far your motor is gone, what kind of damage it has sustained, and what you want to do. good luck on your project.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
the motor is not gone at all - it has just sat for about 2 years. i feel that i could get it running with just tinkering with it for a bit. i swapped a dead 2.8 for a junkyard special 2.8 a year ago and i had to spray blaster in the cylanders and let it soak overnight. the starter still wouldnt brake the motor free so i soaked them for another night - the next day i had to use a pipe wrench (36") on the bottom idler and it broke. that was a year ago and the truck still cranks every day and runs - its a farm truck.

i feel with the intake and carb i have on it i should have a decent amount of HP - according edelbrock dynochart it should be over 300hp.

my intent on the overhaul and rebuild was to make a reliable motor that i can use offroad but also fire up and run down the road to the beach or whatever with the fam.

have you rebuilt motors for $500 price before? what all did it entail?
 

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just do it i think rebuilding it will cost more than $500 but if your truck is worth fixing just go for it and quit worrying
 

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what i have done.

stripped the motor apart, looked everything over. looked for scratches in the bores, put a feeler gauge bewteen the pistons and the cylinder walls. took the motor completely apart, hot tanked the block, had new crank bearings installed by the machine shop, also new cam bearings. if the bores look good dont mess with them, some scratches then hone it out a little with a honing tool on a cordless drill. look at cam. if all the lobes are ok then apply cam grease and re install. if you reinstall your old cam, make sure the pushrods and the lifters go back in there original locations. always look at the heads before you install them, make sure your valve seats are alright, look at the valves themselves, make sure they are seating well. if your heads need a valve job then your 500 dollar budget is out the window. if heads are okay reinstall. pushrods, lifters, rockers next. i would adjust the rockers while the motor is running, tighten them until they make noise and back them off a quarter turn. buy a book about small chryslers and read all you can. i hope this helps some, good luck.
 

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I've never understood what the point of "rebuilding" an engine was if no new parts are going into it. If I am going to go to the effort of pulling a motor out of a vehicle, taking the whole motor apart, and putting it back together I would want to make sure I have all new or properly reconditioned parts throughout the motor. But that is just me too, I have alot higher standards than most people.

In my opinion, another option would be to get a late model magnum motor out of a newer Ram or Dakota and pull off the factory EFI intake manifold and get a carbureted manifold to replace it. You could sell your current intake on your 318 and recoup some of the costs as well as maybe some other misc parts you may have around. This way you would have a pretty new motor that isn't old and worn out and you don't have to have nearly as much down time as you would if you were taking the motor apart and waiting for parts, etc.

These are my opinions, but I seem to have a different way at looking at things too...
 

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the point is to overhaul the motor completely. and do it resonably priced. we have done a few of these to motors, and all of them have ran for atleast another 150k. none of them have smoked and or had bad power. most of them are still running. the point to rebuilding a motor using most of the original parts is that the manufacturer has already built it plenty strong, but some things will always go bad no matter how strong the manufacturer built them. ive had one 318 that i pulled from a 67 half ton longbox 2x4 that had been sitting since 70, i put it in my 73 shortbox 4x4 and it is still running great.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
thanks biggun - thats good stuff.

here is the book i plan on getting tonight if they have it at barnes&noble
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/of...-display_1//103-9816860-8417422?condition=all

mondtster

I've never understood what the point of "rebuilding" an engine was if no new parts are going into it.
wouldnt rebullding it with a kit pretty much replace all bearings, rings, pistons, seals and gaskets? if i can get away with not getting a head job and and not boring out the cylanders i will. my intent is to build reliable.

i appreciatte your help guys. im going to get the master overhaul kit and the book and tear into it and see what i find. the motor was fine just consuming oil so hopefully i wont find anything too bad in it.

pics of motor and rig
http://www.geocities.com/buchvilleman/318.jpg
this is an old old pic before i put new intake and carb on. i ran it for one year in teh hunting woods and then let it sit for over 2 now.
http://www.geocities.com/buchvilleman/BEAST.jpg
aint she perdy? the only thing left is the body and frame sitting on the ground. going to build tube frame and reuse entier drivetrain including axles for my buggy project.
 

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As long as you are replacing the pistons as well as bearings and rings, then I don't have as much of a problem with it... I was thinking you were going to try and reuse old worn out pistons with just new rings. I don't understand reusing a cam and lifters when most new ones are under $150 and you can find some for even under $100.

One thing I have seen is that the older motors are much harder on the cylinder bores than the new motors that have low tension rings in them. I'm not sure if you will be able to get away with just honing the cylinders instead of boring them.

Reusing the heads without any work on them could lead to trouble, depending on where the oil consumption was coming from. Why not just take the heads apart and give them a good valve job and install new seals in them? You can do this at home...

I would HIGHLY recommend taking the motor apart and measuring the clearances of everything before ordering your rebuild kit... Even when the motors were built at the factory some of the motors came with slightly oversize pistons or undersize cranks so that they wouldn't have to scrap a block or crank if the tolerances weren't too far off. Use a micrometer and figure out what size parts you really need, or else you could end up ordering two complete kits by the time you are done if you jump the gun by ordering all standard size parts and everything is over or undersize.

I've built alot of race motors, so my attention to detail and standards are much higher than most people's. If you aren't going to have this in a truck that will see highway use, you will be fine. But in my opinion, if the car is to be used on the street too, every effort to make the thing as reliable as possible would be a good idea. Breaking down on the side of the road sucks.

BTW - in my opinion, trying to put a spending cap or budget on any car project is only somewhat of a reference. Every time I have had a "budget" I could pretty much count on at least doubling the budget in order to make everything right and not half ass.
 

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If you just want to stick in new rings and bearing on the cheap, you can probably get away with this level of a "rebuild" for $500. If you want to do something cheaper and easier, your oil consumption is almost certainly due to valve stem seals - the factory seal material is very poor; the factory bottom ends typically hold up extremely well. I'd bet a case of beer that you can cure the oil consumption with a set of Fel-Pro valve stem seals and valve cover gaskets (no need to pull the heads). I put one set in a 318 that was burning a quart in 1k miles, afterward oil consumption was less than half a quart in 3k miles - and that engine had 250k miles on it. Our mailman has a 318 that was rebuilt properly at 450k miles (just because they thought it might be prudent, no real symptoms) and is now pushing 800k miles, runs like new and uses no oil. My own '77 318 had 40k on the odometer when I got it, and was blowing some blue smoke - valve stem seals replaced, no smoke, no oil consumption.

These farm-boy type rebuilds like you're proposing are usually better than just starting it and running it, and I've done a number of them when that's what someone insisted on. However, I think that the point mondster is trying to make is that it's not really the right way to go about it.

First step after disassembly and hot tank is to have the cylinders bored with a deck plate installed. This is because when the head is installed and torqued down, the block deforms some in the regions near the head bolts, and you no longer have a true "cylinder" for the pistons to run in - this causes some loss of sealing, and faster wear. A good shop won't do this work until you've got the pistons you intend to run in hand, so that they can be fit properly. Manufacturers don't do this because it takes too long, and costs too much.

There is no way that a carb and intake alone will get you 300 hp out of a '78 318. First, those heads have open combustion chambers the same volume as 360 heads (~70 cc) and the pistons sit ~0.100 under the deck, so you're really at about 7:1 compression. Subtract from this some loss due to blowby, and some more due to production-grade valves and seats. Next, the valves and ports are small, and of mid-60s design, so flow really isn't all that great. That stock cam is only running about 240 degrees seat-to-seat duration, so it can't use much more air than the little 2bbl would supply anyway. Put that engine on a dyno and you'll see 150hp at the flywheel AT BEST, and probably under 100 at the rear wheels through the transmission and 203.
 

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i agree

this level of rebuild is exactly what you called it. Farm boy rebuild. i agree with loyd. but not always do people have a couple grand to sink into the motor. i know because im a poor student. the rebuild that i described is better than dumping atf down the motor to break the rings loose. i dunno, im a shadetree mechanic.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
i agree with you on budget - determining a good baseline will help in timing the project. if i have to go over a grand then ill need to wait until tax refund season. under i can pretty much get it done before t-giving. (told my wife i could do SAS on my explorer for a grand - 2k later i was still going over)

thats good on measureing everything before hand. ill heed that advice. right now i guess the thing is whether or not it needs to be bored out or not.

i can do a valve job... done it before on dodge 3.9. as far as seals in the head - your talking valve seals right? i bet i could order those with the rebuild kit.

i was thinking of getting the edelbrock performer+ cam, but i dont want to get too radical. any cam advice? the eb performer seems like its mild comparred to others.

this is the dyno graph ive been looking at

it has the performer intake and 600 cfm carb and had lots of guts with that combo so i may leave well enough alone unless the lobe show significant wear and i need to get a new cam anyway.
 

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one more thing.

i dont know about the cam, i dont have any experience with aftermarket cams, we always just reinstalled the old one or purchased a new one from napa. another thing to consider was, how much oil was it using? i quart every 1000 miles is okay. 1 quart every 500, something is wrong. i could just be a bad seal, like the rear main seal, ect. the bottom line is that you are going to decide what you gotta do. i hope i helped some.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
1 quart every 12-1500 miles. about every month or so. i used it as a hunting truck and it was abused every saturday and sunday for 3 months. lots of stop and go in the woods. about 70 mile round trip to the management area and back with whatever i put on it chasing dogs. i guess its not so bad.

you did help i appreciatte it.
 
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