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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
whats the difference between the clevland and windsor engines? i think one was a car engine,and one a truck engine. is the 351 out of a 77 truck worth much with all the accesories?which one would it be?
 

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The 351W is built on the same basic design as the 289/302 and shares some interchangeability w/ them. They have a taller deck heigth than the 302 so intakes are not interchangable. The Cleavlands are a whole other monster. Cleavlands tend to make poor truck motors since their large valves and intake/exhaust ports ten to make alot of high end power but not too much on the low end. Their are few (if any) interchangable parts between the 351W and the 351C. The W is a good motor (although 77's have crappy smog heads) and is capible of very impressive low end power. There are also stroker kits out there for the W to take it all the way up to 416+ci and those motors are KILLER! In a 77 you might have a 351 Modified. I can't remember if it was 77 or 78 that those came out. These were based on the cleavland but were pretty much crap in stock trim.

[ 08-08-2001: Message edited by: 72F100 ]
 

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The 351C didn't ever come in a truck; the 351M and 351W did. The 351M/400 are essentially a low-performance tall-deck 351C with a 429/460 type bellhousing pattern. 2V Cleveland heads are the same as 351M/400 heads.

For the most part, the 351M/400 sucks in stock form.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
so would the 351 out of a 77 truck be worth any money?worth pulling?
 

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Not really, either way it will be an anemic smog monster with poor compression. Check and see what kind it is. A cleveland or modified has the water outlet off of the top of the block above the timing chain, a windsor will have the waterneck as part of the intake manifold. <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">
 

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i like that anemic smog monster comment. Its true, don't get me wrong. I have a 400M that i've relentlessly tried to muster power from. To no avail, that engine couldn't pull a sick whore off a pisspot. Just a poor design flaw of the late seventies smog crisis. If its from a 4wd truck, i'm almost 100% sure its a 351M, if so shy away, they're pretty much boat anchors with little aftermarket support. One sure fire way to tell is the thermostat housing. The 351/400's have no water running through the intake manifold, so if the thermostat housing runs out the block in front of the intake that what it is. My motor runs well, but after installing lifters, rods, rockers, camshafts, and polishing the head ports i haven't gotten piddly for horsepower gains. No dyno results, just not happy compared to big block 429/460, or FE block(390,428) performance.
 

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hell, I pulled a 351 out of a '77 2wd pickup, and guess what it was?...a Cleveland!, no shit. I traced the #s and It was out of a cougar I guess. the guy had droped it in there and it worked great. It is now going in my '81 4x4, but it was neat because it I bought the whole truck for 450 bucks because a tree fell on it, and the motor was what I was after, I new it was a cleveland be for I bought it, the guy didnt care, he just wanted it out of his yard, so I drove it home 3-4 miles with the roof touching the seat because if the tree <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
another way to tell if its a clevland is if it has 8 valve cover bolts. 7 are windsors. it was a clevland but its gone,the guy lost his storage so its at the pick and pull.
 

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The winsor is better right out of the gate for wheelin because of the way the water jackets are inside of the block. I read this out of the fordmotor sport catolog. The winsor run much cooler at lower R.P.M.s
 

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Originally posted by Brad:
<STRONG>another way to tell if its a clevland is if it has 8 valve cover bolts. 7 are windsors. it was a clevland but its gone,the guy lost his storage so its at the pick and pull.</STRONG>
Sorry, that's wrong. 289, 302, 351W have 6 valve cover bolts, 351C, 351M, and 400 have 8, 429, 460 have 7, and 352, 360, 390, 427, 428 have 5.
 

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I belive that Weiand makes spacers to fit a 351C manifold to a 351/400M block and heads. Dont all late seventies engines have horsepower robbing and primitive smog equipment on them! There are a lot of cleveland aftermarket parts that will work with the M series motors, you will have to do some research to see what works. A 351/400M has 0.8" longer connecting rods and a deck height difference of 1.09" which is the main difference from clevelands. I'm going to run my 351M into the ground, because I no it will take another 100k miles before it will stop running. My engine has close to 200k miles on it, with no smoke blowing from it yet, and it has plenty of torque and power for my needs. Obviously if you want to run 44's and have plenty of power to spin them then dont waste your time, but the engine isn't that bad! But that is just my opinion, my dad's 400M has close to 300k miles on it with out a rebuild and it has outlasted the other driveline components including the indestructible C6 and D60. Maybe the driveline components are tired of hauling around with 1500lbs in the back of the truck at all times, and the 10ft camper before that!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Originally posted by Grandpa Jeep:
<STRONG>Sorry, that's wrong. 289, 302, 351W have 6 valve cover bolts, 351C, 351M, and 400 have 8, 429, 460 have 7, and 352, 360, 390, 427, 428 have 5.</STRONG>
thats what it said in 4 wheeler(i think) magazine like this month or last. thats just what i was going by
 
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