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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
With the 3800 swap's gaining popularity and me starting mine, thought we could get a bible going with specs, links, what works and dose not. The other thread is kinda going in 10 directions. Try to keep it on track. If my info is wrong, speak up. If you have stuff to add feel free.......

GENRAL SPECS

Displacement - 3.8L / 231 cu. in.

RPO - L67 Vin code 1(supercharged) / L36 Vin code K (N/A)

Bore - 3.8''

Stroke - 3.4''

Compression Ratio - 8.5:1(L67) / 9.4:1(L36)

Firing order - 1-6-5-4-3-2

Factory boost - 7 to 9 psi.

Oil capacity - 4.5qt

Oil pressure @ Operating temp (1850 rpm) using 10w-30 - 60 psi

Bellhousing pattern is the 60* Chevy

Thread Pitch on bellhousing bolts 12-1.75

Lenght of motor from transmission surface to front of crank pulley - 21''

Crank center to top of supercharger - 18''

Crank center to bottom of oil pan - 9''

Factory supercharger pulley - 3.8''
-each .10" drop in pulley size equals about 1 pound of boost

Some cool specs on the motor

Pushrod guide plates

Behive valve springs

Roller SHAFT(not tip) rockers

Billet steel camshaft

Cross-bolted mains

Moly-coated piston skirts

Hyd. roller lifters
 

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Factory supercharger pulley - 3.8''
-each .10" drop in pulley size equals about 1 pound of boost
I've a 2.8" and I don't remember ever seeing more than 12 on my boost gauge.

Edit - I researched this a little and read somewhere that the supercharger I have (Gen V M-90) is capable of 15 psi. The previous models were capable of 10-12.
 

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Just to start, get a SeriesII motor 97+ years with the GenIII M-90 or Gen V M-90 supercharger(Gen-V will put 30 whp more down than a Gen III due to increased efficiency and temp reductions). If you get one of the earlier engines, burn it in it's place and go get the later model motor, you're wasting money on a Series I SC(M62 vs M-90 on the other models) 3800. That being said:
Tuner websites:
http://wiki.opentuner3800.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
http://www.gmv6pcm.com/
http://www.uvscanning.com/forum/index.php
http://www.bonnevillepro.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=186&t=8741
Eddie's Table modifier Thingy(This guy is the most generous SOB out there! This thing makes tuning easier and quicker!!)
http://www.theblattners.com/projects/tablemodifier/Default.html

Tuners available are HP tuners and DHP powertuner(no longer made). HP tuners require credits for different models and years, DHP is open to all supported models. DHP is not Vista compatible.
DHP powertuner supported years and models:
http://www.bonnevillepro.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=187&t=8950
Bin files:
http://www.bonnevillepro.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=187

General:
Timing >boost for power. Pulley up(as in bigger, less boost) until you can command 20 deg of advanced timing. Going past 21-22 deg timing advance pops head gaskets. Shoot for 11.0-1 AFR for safety. KR is bad, let me repeat, KR IS BAD FOR THESE ENGINES. Piston tops crack and break off between the top ring and the piston top, smash the spark plug on the way out. The engine usually still runs fine in vacuum but gets super pissed under boost. Popped pistons happen all the time unfortunately. Did I mention KR is bad?

Other 3800 links that can be tech friendly(after sorting through the online BS of course:flipoff2:)
http://www.clubgp.com/
http://www.bonnevillepro.com/forums/

Belt size to pulley size chart:
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/articles1.php?id=57

Good place to start for mods. I'm not a big zzp fan but they do have the sequence of mods down fairly well in this article.
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/articles1.php?id=35

97 wiring harness/pcm has slower bus rate, get 98+ harness.

99 throttle bodies have a much more "free flowing" design
http://www.zzperformance.com/articles_img/10_1.jpg

That's a good start :smokin:
 

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Some RWD transmission info for the 3800 L67:

The L67 and other GM engines with the 60 deg pattern will bolt up to an Aisin Warner automatic with the correct bellhousing. And because Toyota used the A340e (a variant of the AW4 in Jeeps), it can also be used since it is essentially the same transmission.

The bellhousing needed is a factory Isuzu part. Because GM and Isuzu are in bed with each other, the 3.5L v6 in the late model rodeos shares the gm 60 deg pattern with the 3.1, 3.4, and 3.8L Chevy Engines (even though the 3.8L L67 is a 90 deg engine). AND because Aisin Warner made the trans for the rodeo (essentially an AW4), it all bolts together with only a small spacer for the torque converter mounting bolts. The AW4 has proven itself behind a few turbo 4.0L's (Corey's) and is a variant of the trans in the turbo supra (big power potential). Lots of good stuff in there, it just hates heat. Keep it cool and you've got a bulletproof trans.

I'm honestly surprised the XJ guys haven't caught on to the GM 3.8L family yet... :smokin:


There is also a semi-common 700r4 with the 60 deg bell from some 2.8L S10's I believe, but I'm not that knowledgeable on that particular setup.



The thread covering the build of my YJ with a L67 mated to an AW4 on PGH-offroad for future reference.
http://www.pgh-offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10901
 

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A 60 degree 700r4 WILL Bolt to the back of the l67. From the Iron duke 4cly chevy motor, the 2.8l, 3.1 and 3.4, there all the same bellhousing. Even the 2.2 non-ecotec motors are the same. 4l60e's where stock equipment behind the 3800 l36 N/a motor in the camaro/Trans Am in the late 90's till it was discontinued. THese will probably be the best bet for a straight bolt up Having the correct torque converter depth and flex plate. The trannys behind the fwd and rwd versions are controlled diffrently, the fwd with 1 more servo. One solution is to use a camaro computer, and have the tables changed in the tune to accomadate the boost, while controling the RWD 4l60e.

I do have a l36 bolted to a 88 camaro 700r4, with 1/2 spacers, and the pilot is JUST hanging in the crank. Stall is really high. Others are running a custom TC built with longer pilot and bosses.

V6 700r4/4l60/e have less clutches then a v8 built one, being they where built to handle less power. You can assemble a v6 case with v8 internals.

NOTE: the l67 was never offered in North america will a 5sp/standard. NO flywheels where built. This is important because the l36 and l67 have a diffrent internal balance. The flex plates are not interchangeable. L36 Flywheels can be rebalanced to match the 'unbalance' of an l67 flexplate.
(flywheels where made for austraila, holden, but hard to find i imagine.)

For offroading, i've had it suggested to me that there is no use for the balance shaft to be run. It does use oil from the galleries for lube. It's been recomended to take it out and plug the oil holes, so more oil is avaible for the top end. Use at your own risk, but i've lost the l36 i was running, don't want to lose my new l67.

I've been tempted to start this exact thread for the last few months, glad some one did.
 

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Where's the tech?:flipoff2:





No really, I've always been fascinated with these motors. Aren't they direct descendants of the Odd fire? What kind of power can one expect from a gen V with a little massaging (mild porting, gasket matching, cam, different pulley)?
 

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I didn't really think the other thread was going off course at all. There's a ton of good tech in there, links to all sorts of builders, and places to get stuff, as well as discussion that's pretty on topic.
 

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ok...have a question, does anyone know if the n/a motors and the supcharged motors have any cosmetic difference's ? i just bought a non-supercharged motor for mock up purpose's , heads different, block, ect...?
they look the same my supercharged motor is still in it's donor car. any info would be great.
 

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ok...have a question, does anyone know if the n/a motors and the supcharged motors have any cosmetic difference's ? i just bought a non-supercharged motor for mock up purpose's , heads different, block, ect...?
they look the same my supercharged motor is still in it's donor car. any info would be great.

Other than the blower, intake manifold, and valve covers, the overall dimensions are the same. Same block, same heads. Make sure you allow clearance for the throttle body/intake on the back side of the engine (almost another 8 inches past the rear of the block depending on the intake elbow used). The accessories will vary depending on what vehicle you pulled each engine from.
 

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Other than the blower, intake manifold, and valve covers, the overall dimensions are the same. Same block, same heads. Make sure you allow clearance for the throttle body/intake on the back side of the engine (almost another 8 inches past the rear of the block depending on the intake elbow used). The accessories will vary depending on what vehicle you pulled each engine from.
There is a difference in cylinder heads. The blocks are the same but the block internals are not. NA engines are 9.5to1 compression vs the 8.0to1 SC engine.
Cylinder head information here:
"Note that the injectors are mounted into the head on a supercharged 3800 (L67) whereas a naturally aspirated 3800 (L36) doesn't have these holes tapped for the injector bosses."
From here: http://www.thrashercharged.com/tech_htm/engine_tear.shtm
Casting numbers for L67 heads to stay away from located here:
"Apparently, there was an issue with early L67 cylinder heads being prone to cracking. It appears that the casting was actually changed DURING the 1998 model year. Old castings are G.M. #24503436 and have .855" valve spring seat pilots. New castings are G.M. #24507848 and have .810" valve spring seat pilots. "
From here: http://www.intense-racing.com/techtips.shtml

Hope that helps some :smokin:
 

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He was asking about cosmetic similarities between the two (L36 & L67).

As long as both are Series II, they are identical in dimensions when it comes to the blocks and heads. The bosses are there in the L36 head casting for the injectors, and therefore L36 heads could (with machine work) become heads that will work on the L67.

Mock up using the block/heads and take measurements for the intake/charger assembly and you'll be fine.
 
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