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tri or not?

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
look at thesae 2 set ups, which is better for a sammie rockcrawler? I will be going to coils near the end of my frame and streching the WB to aprox 103" from 89", so by going link and coils, I don't have top erxtend the frame and should have a 90* departure angle to boot. I'm still confused as to the links, I see one triangleated and the other not. I'm leaning towards triangledated, outside links on top of the tubes, going sch80 1.75" aprox pipe.
 

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Mudtruck (first one) built his for mud. He didn't do so well in the rocks at TTC. The other was built for rocks. It's triangulated. Go figure:rolleyes:


:flipoff2:


Why don't ya find the god of suspension thread and ask a couple questions on it:D That'll make everyone happy.

Really, though. From what I've seen, double triangulated 4 links with opposing V's work the best. Like desertoy's.
But I like simplicity. I like leafs. Just don't like the approach/departure angles...but the 38.5 SX's will help a little:smokin:
 

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I think what you're missing on mudtruck44's rig is a panhard bar??? Which the triangulated link setup eliminates the need for. I'd go with DOM for the links. I just don't like the idea of using pipe.

-Ummm, but to answer your q, tri
 

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a 3 link is better then any 4 link
it is a truly no bind suspension
the 4link will always fight itself when twisted, even worse when triangulated
it will work but a 3 link is without the bind so why use the extra link
 

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mj said:
a 3 link is better then any 4 link
it is a truly no bind suspension
the 4link will always fight itself when twisted, even worse when triangulated
it will work but a 3 link is without the bind so why use the extra link
Please explain how a 4 link "will always fight itself when twisted, even worse when triangulated"
I am trying to figure out if you are a total MORON who speaks with thinking or if you know something that EVERYONE on this board who has tried and tested 3 links doesn't know.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
mj said:
a 3 link is better then any 4 link
it is a truly no bind suspension
the 4link will always fight itself when twisted, even worse when triangulated
it will work but a 3 link is without the bind so why use the extra link
ok are the 2 links on the outside stright or triangleated? and from which end should the wide side be:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Im4yotas said:

But I like simplicity. I like leafs.
I do too.............but............did ya read why I want to go link? bawaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa no frame ext with the links, that god of sus thread hurt my head!
 

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OK, Here's what I came up with when I was researching this subject.
The standard 3 link doesn't work for rock crawling because:
1. When articulated, instead of articulating the axle under the center of the vehicle, it forces the vehicle to fall to one side or the other because of the single attachment point at the top center of the axle. I think this is called roll center. (does that make sence?)
2. Because the lower arms are connected from the outside of the axle housing to the outside of the frame, when you articulate the suspension, the side that drops will tend to push the vehicle over on it's side because the lower link arm on that side is pushing up on the outside of the frame where it is attached. This has proven to be the biggest problem with rigs that have standard 3 link in the rear. They are fun to watch because they ALWAYS have one front tire 3 feet in the air.
3. You end up with a serious rear steer problem.

If you go to a 4-link design and triangulate the lower links from the outside of the axle housing to the center, under the transfer case yoke. and the upper links from the outside of the axle housing to the outside of the frame. This will cure your rear stear problem and will not tend to push the vehicle over when articulated. (Works really good)

If you go with the dual triangulated 4-link design you get the advantages of the above 4-link and also it spreads out the side loads to all 4 link arms (rather than 2 on the other design)so that is doesn't tend to pull the link arm mounts out of the frame or break heim joints.

I use 1 1/2"x.120 wall mild steel tubing on my upper link arms ans 1 1/4" scedule 80 pipe for my lower link arms. They are all 4 the same length so I only have to carry one spare(though I have never used it).
 

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I'm in the process of finishing my rear coils and links. Mine are like the bottom pic but my top links will come together into one heim at the diff so it will look like a Y on the top and an upside down V on the bottom so they cross. It is all 2"x.250 DOM. You can get it at All Metals there in Oroville for $6.17 a foot or from Valley Steel in Chico on Nord just past Phil's shop for $5.13 a foot.

The bottom links use Wrangler bushings on the axle end and Bronco radius arm ends on the cross member end. Mike Ladd sells some radius end extensions that fit inside the DOM. The top links will have Wrangler bushings on the frame end and a huge 1" heim on the axle end. I HOPE it all works out ;)
 

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YOu gotta go trianglated 4-link bass! DO it like desertoy was talking about, where you have all four links triangulated to spread the load better. I have mine set up like a "W" formation and it works freekin awesome. AS for the other guy who says 4-links always work against themselves, well, your retarded:flipoff2: I can show you some pics of mine if want em
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
nuttzack said:
YOu gotta go trianglated 4-link bass! DO it like desertoy was talking about, where you have all four links triangulated to spread the load better. I have mine set up like a "W" formation and it works freekin awesome. AS for the other guy who says 4-links always work against themselves, well, your retarded:flipoff2: I can show you some pics of mine if want em
10-4:D but hey sure the "other guy" is a PCE not retarded;) lol, thx Desert Toy and Nutt, like I said later, just wanted tio get a good idea of the working of it, I never paid a whole lot of ATT: to it before..........I like the 4 equal length so I spare deal too:)
 

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gotta say I didn't think MUDTRUCK would flex like it did!



I like his drop out coil thing too..
 

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Curtis said:
Mine are like the bottom pic but my top links will come together into one heim at the diff so it will look like a Y on the top and an upside down V on the bottom so they cross.
You had better check this design because I think it might bind. I don't think you can use an "A" frame on the top and triangulated lower links. I think the roll center tendencies will fight each other.
 

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a local guy swore up and down on how much the XX 4-link would bind and suck and break and suck and not work and suck and blah blah blah. we did it anyway and it rocks. desertoy is on the ball on this topic.

that is the coolest setup and it flexes like crazy and it still works. little to no rear stear, no axle bounce, it's just awesome. not just some ramp queen setup.
 

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This design does flex well but for rock crawling it will put ALOT of force on the panard mount and eventually it would fail (blue circle)
Also, this is a perfict example of what I was explaining about the lower arms wanting to push the vehicle over when articulated.(yellow circle) because of the angle of the link arms and the fact that they are mounted to the oudside of the frame. It will push up on the frame where it is mounted instead of foreward.
 

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OK, what about all of these comp rigs that are running the 3 links. They don't seem to have any problems. I have seen them work in person. Unbelievable if done right. Jason Paule, Tracy Jordan, Don Robbins, and Shupe all run the same design. Doesn't seem to want to tip their rigs over. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something. What is your take on this.

Erin
 

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desertoy said:
This design does flex well but for rock crawling it will put ALOT of force on the panard mount and eventually it would fail (blue circle)
Also, this is a perfict example of what I was explaining about the lower arms wanting to push the vehicle over when articulated.(yellow circle) because of the angle of the link arms and the fact that they are mounted to the oudside of the frame. It will push up on the frame where it is mounted instead of foreward.
First, yeah there is A LOT of stress on the panhard mount. That is why the front looks like this-

I have a brace going to the panhard bar mount.

About the angle of my bars, you realize the axle is drooped like a couple feet? The angle is not very steep normally so it doesn't really push up on the frame.

4-link won't really bind if the bars are parallel. The other secret to my flex is the long bars. I think it could work pretty well in a Sammy but triangulated bar or bars may be best.

Here is an idea I thought of the other day at work. I am a mechanic and at work we replace a lot of track bars on Dodge trucks. I was looking at them and realized how great they would work for suspension links. One end has a ball joint (the end that goes bad). The other end has a rubber bushing. They are made from solid bar close to an inch and a half. If you cut the usable portion off, you have almost 2' with a bushing on the end. Schedule 40, 1 1/2 pipe slides right over it tight. Cut two bars in half, splice em, and you have bulletproof bars! And the cost? go to your local Chrysler dealer and I am sure they have ten in the junk pile that you can get for almost nothing.
 
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