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What the hell, why not do a poll.......

  • Stick with the ZJ :flipoff2:

    Votes: 1 4.2%
  • Do a build thread when you do it.....

    Votes: 8 33.3%
  • Bacon

    Votes: 15 62.5%

  • Total voters
    24
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So, I'm planning on picking up a '47 Willys this weekend. The plan is to throw waggy 44's under it, with a 3 link front, 4 link rear and 2" airshocks all the way around.

Why am I doing this? Sick of my ZJ, unibody, size, would need new axles anyways etc, and I don't like having anything like anybody else and love the older CJ's and especially the Flatty's. :D

So that being said, I would like some suggestions on motors, tranny's & t cases. I would love to throw an Atlas or a Stak in it if I could find a good used deal. I don't feel I need a V8 due to the weight of the rig and its not a mud bogger, and I want a good dependable auto tranny. I'm running 44 axles due to the weight of the rig and I'm only planning on putting 36-37's on it and keeping it as low as possible without compromising ground clearance.

I've thought about putting a doubler of some sorts in it, but length "may" be an issue. Probably something like a 203/205 or 231/300 doubler if I did. Thought about putting a 4.3L Vortec, but I'm not opposed to oddball setups or what have you either.

If your gay please select the "bacon" option! :flipoff2:
 

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Doing very similar right now, with a 59 CJ3b. I'm starting with the tried and true 4.3 / TH350 / Dana 300.

I think a doubler is going to be a tall order unless you REALLY shove the rear axle back a lot.. mine will have the front axle forward about 6" and the rear axle back about 12-13" at the moment, and I don't think I could get a doubler in there.

I'm very close to cutting the hood and adding 3" to get a little more motor room, which is also to cover up the fact that I extended the front frame rails about 6" for more room for suspension (running leafs for now....).

Now, with the 47, you've got the low hood, which ends up being a big factor in what you can fit without major theatrics.

To me, a 4.3 is pretty ideal, almost V8 HP/torque, reasonable length, ~425lbs, good automatic selection.

Looking at the transmission, depending on other factors (transfer case, driveshaft setup, front axle pinion placement), a new 6 bolt style 4L60e is actually no longer when adapted to a Dana 300 than a TH350, and you get a lot better gearing.

So, if you use that as your benchmark motor, it just depends on what you'd gain.

I personally think between either the simplicity/cost effectiveness/availability of a TH350, and a good gearing of a 4L60e, that chevy transmissions are the good way to go, with autos. With the 30% overdrive, you could go with a 4:1 gearset, and have near-doubler gearing without the extra weight and length of the doubler.

Figure a doubler is like 40 more pounds, and 6" of length lost. Likewise an atlas is bigger and heavier than a Dana 300...

So, doesn't sound like you want more power than that, so, maybe something to save weight?

There's the vortec 2800/2900 aluminum 4 cyls from the canyon/colorado, which are still in the 170-180hp range, but less torque than a 4.3. I am thinking probably 100lbs less weight, but the intakes aren't going to clear your hood.

Hmm.. there's always the GM 60* V6s, which can get up to, what, 240-260hp in the SC versions. You might save maybe 50-75 lbs of weight, and if you used a Jeep 3 speed auto from a 4 cyl, that'd be a little better first gear than a th350.


To me, the best non V8 drivetrain for a low-hood flattie is going to be a MPFI 4.3 V6 / 4L60e / Dana 300 with 4:1 gearing...
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Yah, a 4.3L hooked up to a 4L60E would be easy to find from an LKQ or the like. Run the tranny till it craps out then get it rebuilt beefier or swap it as a core for one.

Not sure on the wheelbase, need to get it in the shop and do some measuring. What is the factory wheelbase on these? Like the thoughts on the 300, are all the 4:1 gearsets apples to apples as far as strength, cost looks relatively the same?

They said it had a 350 in it, but thats toast because someone tried to clean the motor with drano!? :laughing: :shaking:

Thanks,
Chris

Figure the bacon votors are the buggy owners or mudboggers, sorry not taking a second mortgage out on my house! :flipoff2:
 

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Factory wheelbase is 80" With little lift, like 2.5" that was kinda common, you could stick 33s under there, use a th350 with the stock dana 18 and get a driveshaft in it. But it ain't big.

The thing that kills you isn't really the wheelbase itself, but the fact that the grill is sooooo rearward. On my build, my front axle will be completely in front of the engine, actually directly under the grill itself (unless I stretch the front clip a few inches).

There are some threads out there on the dana 300 gearsets. search for 'tera' or 'lo-max'
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Factory wheelbase is 80" With little lift, like 2.5" that was kinda common, you could stick 33s under there, use a th350 with the stock dana 18 and get a driveshaft in it. But it ain't big.

The thing that kills you isn't really the wheelbase itself, but the fact that the grill is sooooo rearward. On my build, my front axle will be completely in front of the engine, actually directly under the grill itself (unless I stretch the front clip a few inches).

There are some threads out there on the dana 300 gearsets. search for 'tera' or 'lo-max'
Yup, noticed Advanced adapters and Lomax make gearsets from quick searching. I'll definitely stretch it out, hell maybe I'll build a tube frame for it? But I've been wanting a long armed rig thats smaller and more manueverable than my ZJ. Been thinking a wheelbase of 95-100 would be what I'd shoot for anyways. Have to take a gander at it, since I'll be doing highsteer, maybe just get the double ended arm for the pasenger side and have the draglink hook up behind the axle. But I'll build new tube fenders that look very similar to the factory fenders and have the tire crammed as far back as I can. Since links move forward during compression so I don't have to worry about the tire jamming in the back of the wheelwell, and I'm pretty sure the frame is narrow enough I don't have to worry about the tire turning into it. :D
 

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I'm in the process of building my 1950 right now. I've stretched it in 3 places just cause I don't care much for it being only stretched in one place. I went ahead and made some tube fenders that stretch the front about 4", the 5.3L sits in there nice with plenty of room for a radiator and elec fan. stretched the door way 5" and behind the door about 7". Man do I hate body worknow. I went ahead and made a new frame with 30" between the frame rails. The stock exhaust manifolds fit between the frame rails and it gives me a little more room in the engine bay. This also makes it so that I don't have to outboard my springs but i might have some frame rubbage. If I were you I'd stretch it but widening the frame might or might not be a big concern to you.
If you can get enough room for a 4l60 than that'd be pretty sweet.
 

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Yeah, my frame is wider than stock, too, 29.375 on center, which matches my spring spacing for my axles (toyota/diamond axles). Probably about 2" wider than stock.

I have a fiberglass tub, so I can't stretch the body, so I'm looking only to get the hood a little longer. That way I won't have a 16" long shelf sticking out past the grill..
 

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jesse (Mudtruck44) has an awesome willys, last I heard he wanted to swap in a 3400 60* V6 and auto into it. I think that would be a pretty cool engine for that rig, compact, good power, plentyful.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
If I were you I'd stretch it but widening the frame might or might not be a big concern to you.
If you can get enough room for a 4l60 than that'd be pretty sweet.
Stretching will be determined once I get and gut the unnecessary stuff out of it. Acquire the drivetrain, bolt it all up and test fit. Whats the issue with the 4l60e, getting it to clear the tunnel, I'll modify that! :D

jesse (Mudtruck44) has an awesome willys, last I heard he wanted to swap in a 3400 60* V6 and auto into it. I think that would be a pretty cool engine for that rig, compact, good power, plentyful.
I'll have to look into that, does he have a build? If not I'm not shy, I'll shoot him a PM!

I guess the nice thing about linking it is I don't have to worry about making spring packs meet up to the frame width or stretching it so I have a perch out front. I have a sweet deal on an HS9500i WARN, thats all that I need a perch for on the front, although its a bit overkill for this but what are you gonna do!

I've got buddies with S10's and 4.3's with the 4l60e's so I can premeasure those to help brainstorm fitment.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
There are pics on my myspace page, and I posted a pic in a thread similar to this a few weeks ago. A few of the pics are with the stock tub at 92" wheelbase. The more recent pics are after it was tubed out, and 100" WB.

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=688255&highlight=
I'll check your page out when I get home, think I might have met you May 2004, back at the Badlands when my buddy needed to change sprockets on his Banshee (sure you hear that ALL the time though). I was drooling over the buggy in the shop......... :D

Your rig is the CLOSEST I've seen to what I want the end outcome to be (^didn't realize this was so popular^), I'd love to do 60's but don't know if I really need them. Prolly regret it later, but I can always upgrade too. Did you redo your frame cause it was toast, prolly more strength as well?

Thanks!
Chris
 

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My stock frame started bending. They suck, and it was very easy to build a new one, 2 x 3 box tube, and some miter cuts.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
It'll get a cage, and I guess if I have to build motor and tranny mounts I should just build a tube frame, might use round tube instead though....................hmmmm, decisions decisions.............:laughing:

C channel frames suck the big one, I concur........................
 

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I used 2 x 3 box tube on mine, its pretty simple to do. Its nice to get yourself a good digital level, to really get things dialed in as you weld, but think of it this way... how straight and level are all the old used frames we all use? So if I'm off an 1/8 or even a 1/4", does it matter? Naw...
 

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There are pics on my myspace page, and I posted a pic in a thread similar to this a few weeks ago. A few of the pics are with the stock tub at 92" wheelbase. The more recent pics are after it was tubed out, and 100" WB.

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=688255&highlight=
Funny, this was just a few weeks ago, and my vehicle plan changed... at that point, I was thinking 4-links and my CJ3a.. since then I bought a fiberglass tub'd CJ3b and stretched the frame to fit leafs. Links aren't 100% out of the question, though.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Yah fiberglass would be a big no no for me. :laughing:

My buddy was saying a Turbo 4.3L out of an early 90's Chevy Typhoon would be a nice choice. Thoughts?

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm bacon...................... :flipoff2:
 

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I am going old school Buick 225 v6, sm465, dana 18.

And when that is not enough a 3.8 turbo out of a Grand National is a bolt in.
 

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Yah fiberglass would be a big no no for me. :laughing:

My buddy was saying a Turbo 4.3L out of an early 90's Chevy Typhoon would be a nice choice. Thoughts?

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm bacon...................... :flipoff2:
Up here in the rust belt, you get a choice of evils. I have a CJ3a that'd need a lot of body work, or get the CJ3b (from 99grandTJ, above). Since my present truck is rotting of the frame at the moment, this one is getting something that won't rust.

On mine, though, I have the rear bumper ending 6" behind the tub, and there will be side bars along the tub, also sticknig out, maybe 3" from the body. The front clip is metal, and will have reinforced tube fenders and a grill hoop. So It'll be kept off rocks and trees pretty well. Its worth it to lose a little clearance , to have the protection. Plus, I like them as steps. When I'm sitting, stuck, in water up to the headlights (happens more that you'd think), you REALLY like the rails all the way around to walk on to hook up a strap/winch.

If you start getting something crazy like a 4.3 turbo, then you are right back to V8 power and weight (adding the turbo, plumbing, and intercooler on top of the regular 4.3 weight), why not go aluminum 5.3 or LS1, they'd be lighter and better power delivery.
 

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if i'm not mistaken I think the 5.3 weighs a little more than the stock 134. 134 is ~470 lbs, 4.3~ 425lbs, and the iron block 5.3 is around 500lbs. someone can correct me if my numbers are off a little. Just something to consider.
 
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