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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Yeah yeah..........This is another chapter in my stupidity that has likely become fairlly well known.
I've been doing a lot of figuring in the last few months, and the debate has been between what axles I wanted to run.
3 major factors came into play. These where Cost, Strength, and availability of parts.(Weight for me was not an issue, and I can warrant it anyways.:flipoff2:)
Once the numbers had been crunched, the 5 tons won hands down.


This thread will document everything I've been gathering for information, every bit of hardware and part numbers, plus any aftermarket parts available or that I have made.

Some of the pictures may be out of order and seemingly random, but bear with me.


This isn't my "project thread", more of a documentary of everything I can find about them. Feel free to pipe up with any pertinant info that may be usefull to someone else.



Trying to add some shortcuts to the important posts.
I'll try to keep these links updated with any new information, so it's not scattered in a dozen places throughout the thread.


Build threads
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9780797&postcount=56

Shave
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9780797&postcount=56

Factory air locker
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9778068&postcount=41

Wheels
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9776687&postcount=33

Parts
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9776648&postcount=30

One piece Boots
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9776381&postcount=23

2.5-5 ton comparison
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9775926&postcount=11

D60-5 ton shaft comparison
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9775753&postcount=8

Homemade socket
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9775740&postcount=6

Hub tech
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9775736&postcount=5

Weight post
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9791753&postcount=79

Hardware post
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9791824&postcount=81

More measurements
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9826000&postcount=116

Dane's Double beadlock thread
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=782141

Part #s
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9945232&postcount=189
 

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Discussion Starter #2
This was the day I got them, I bought a pair of steering axles, as well as another set of hummer wheels that I will be re-centering to the 5 ton pattern, and a driveshaft for bits and pieces.









 

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Discussion Starter #3
The upper reduction in the diff is 2.45:1, has 11t pinion and a 27t ring gear.
Ring gear is 9".
Since these are 6.44:1 diffs, the lower reduction on the bullgear would be 2.63:1

Some basice teardown pics as well, these need some cleanup, more details and specs as it all goes back together.





 

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Discussion Starter #4
Got a bunch done today, both diffs are stripped. I've got a bunch of part numbers to track down parts, and need a few more hard parts now that it's all apart.
Also tracked down a wheel stud that should work without the drums.

Pics of the outer bearing, the seal carrier/seal.




The brakes look like brand new. Into the scrap bin anyways........:laughing:



Pulled the 3rd and checked it on rotation. Front becomes a rear with NO MODS:D




Pics of the Rezeppa shafts that came in the one diff. Fawkin huge....These are the "spare" shafts.



Everythings sitting for work. Brackets are all programmed for the hats and tabs, the diffs are ready to come apart for welding, and the housings are getting shaved. I can take 2" out of the center, and way more out of the rest of it.


 

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Discussion Starter #5
Got some wheel studs sorted out and on the way, I'll post the part numbers as I get them, they're the same size, but a shorter shoulder to make up the differance without the drum. Sorting out rotors for the pinion brakes as well, I want something budget and common so it's cheap and easy to replace since they'll likely ovverheat before they wear out. Hoping to have that sorted out and the diffs going back together next week for brackets.

Couple of pics for referance.
First is a 14ff hub from a disc swapped axle, has a HD44 rotor on it, beside an airbrake style hub.

Second is a hydraulic brake hub beside an airbrake hub. The hydro hub is needed to beable to "flip the hubs" in, just like a 2.5 ton. The rear is already drilled and tapped, just have to flip the seal and bolt the drive flange to the back side(now front side)
Inner and outer bearings are the same, and the same between the different styles of hubs as well.
3rd pic is the hydro brake hub inside a 12 bolt hummer back half. It's a real tight fit, I'll need a swivel to get the lug nuts on, but it's doable. You can actually squeeze a 16" rimon without the drums, and yes, I'm planning on 20" hemmt wheels(they're scaled up hummers), but I'll have a set of each with 2 different sets of tires to open options for me.



 

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Discussion Starter #6
Figured you guys would like this, and it's related to the diffs anyways. I'm working on the brakes and needed a pinion flange to get the mounting of the rotor sorted out. Only problem was I don't have a 2-1/4" socket handy, the thirds are loose, and the nuts are stupid tight.

Basically the recipe here is.
A piece of 2-1/4" exhaust tube, 6 pieces of 1/4" flat stock 1-1/4" long, welder, and some scrap boxtube.
The pictures tell the rest, the second piece is to lock the pinion still so that I could pull the nut, and it bolts to the flange itself.

Yup........I'm a Redneck:flipoff2:






 

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Discussion Starter #7
Got some more work done, Stripped all the paint off the one housing cleaned all the crap off and took a bunch of measurements. Broke out the plasma and made the housing more Rock friendly. All said and done I'll be gaining about 2" at the very peak, allowing for a 1/2" thick skid (the current belly is 3/8"thick). And 3-4" on the rest of it. Ground clearance I don't know for sure yet, but from the center of the diff, to the absolute bottom of the skid will be 7". If memory serves me correctly, that's about the same as a 14ff.:grinpimp:

The marker lines on the complete housing are the proposed skid lines, just to give an idea of the differance.







 

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Discussion Starter #8
This is a comparison between a u-joint 5 ton shaft, and a chromo 35 spline D60 shaft. 5 ton is a 2-1/8" at the splines, necks down to a hair under 2" along the length.



 

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Discussion Starter #9
I've been programming like crazy, I already have templates for all the covers, wheel centers and rock rings, boot guards for the lower kingpins, high steer arms, and am working on the skid and pinion brakes.

I will be getting a set of HEMMT wheels soon, they area 20" copy of an H1, with a 5ton pattern already.

WMS is similar to their 2.5 ton brothers, hubs can be flipped in or out. Out as they came they are 88" wms-wms, hubs flipped in as I will be changing them to, they are approx. 72" wms-wms.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
The picture makes them decievingly big because of all the brackets on it. Axle tubes are 5" square, formed from 1/2" plate. Doubled up at the flange for the 3rd. I need to find a fair comparison pic without the brakes on the 5 ton, and without the bracketsto give a true sense of size.



Pretty sure it's a Wilwood rotor for a pinion brake. The pinion flange is 8" across, with a 8 on 7-1/4" bolt pattern with 3/8" through holes. Wilwood rotors are available in (amongst others) an 8 on 7" bolt pattern, and it's a minor mod(as far as I can tell) to make them fit. They look like the best option for pinion brakes because of the fact that finding a rotor with a larger than one-ton pattern that is around 13" diameter is near impossible. I've got a Wilwood rotor coming to check out for pinion brakes, It'll go in this thread as soon as I know how to make it work.
 

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nice write up so far. after looking at all the pic's and seeing that theres not differance between the 2.5's and the 5 tons it make's sence for a someone who's not concerned about weight to run the 5 ton's insteed.

you get all the beef of what the after market is trying to make for the 2.5 tons factory with the 5 ton axle's.

how many diffrent gear ratio's are avable for the 5 ton axle's? ive herd of three but i dont want to clog up this thread with misinformation. i also herd that the 5 ton axle's can be converted to planitary ends very easly.

very nice and now i feel that my 2.5's are small:flipoff2:

jason.
 

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how many diffrent gear ratio's are avable for the 5 ton axle's? ive herd of three but i dont want to clog up this thread with misinformation. i also herd that the 5 ton axle's can be converted to planitary ends very easly.
6.44, 8.88, and 10.26 .... i've heard of a couple of other ratios that came in civilian trucks, but that could just be a rumor. the 6.44 ratio is the most common, by a long shot.

the air brake fronts, with the hubs like spidr has should have been u-joint style shafts. my front was air brake, but had the old style hubs and rezeppa shafts.

i believe the clark 20 ton planets are the ones that fit without too much work. you still have to put a flange on the axle tube though.
 

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Pretty sure it's a Wilwood rotor for a pinion brake. The pinion flange is 8" across, with a 8 on 7-1/4" bolt pattern with 3/8" through holes. Wilwood rotors are available in (amongst others) an 8 on 7" bolt pattern, and it's a minor mod(as far as I can tell) to make them fit. They look like the best option for pinion brakes because of the fact that finding a rotor with a larger than one-ton pattern that is around 13" diameter is near impossible. I've got a Wilwood rotor coming to check out for pinion brakes, It'll go in this thread as soon as I know how to make it work.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=WIL-160-2898&N=700+115&autoview=sku

i drilled new holes in the pinion flange. however, it's a tight fit next to the chunk. the caliper i wanted to use wasn't going to clear the chunk, so i scrapped the project and just kept the brakes i have.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
nice write up so far. after looking at all the pic's and seeing that theres not differance between the 2.5's and the 5 tons it make's sence for a someone who's not concerned about weight to run the 5 ton's insteed.

you get all the beef of what the after market is trying to make for the 2.5 tons factory with the 5 ton axle's.

how many diffrent gear ratio's are avable for the 5 ton axle's? ive herd of three but i dont want to clog up this thread with misinformation. i also herd that the 5 ton axle's can be converted to planitary ends very easly.

very nice and now i feel that my 2.5's are small:flipoff2:

jason.

That was my logic. As a budget axle, there isn't much comparison as for the most part these are cheaper than the 2.5 tons.


6.44, 8.88, and 10.26 .... i've heard of a couple of other ratios that came in civilian trucks, but that could just be a rumor. the 6.44 ratio is the most common, by a long shot.

the air brake fronts, with the hubs like spidr has should have been u-joint style shafts. my front was air brake, but had the old style hubs and rezeppa shafts.

i believe the clark 20 ton planets are the ones that fit without too much work. you still have to put a flange on the axle tube though.
Gear ratios as far as I can tell you're bang on. I have a military service manual that list those three ratios, I've read about 2 or 3 others as well, but no evidence of it. Bonus to these is that Detroits are readily available online, and in a lot of rear applications came factory.

As with a lot of the parts for these the prices on new bits are comparable to one ton Dana stuff. Detroits as far as I've found brand new are about $800.

I have one of each of the axle types, My hydraulic brake front had rezeppa shafts, and my air brake front had u-joint shafts. I got another set of hydraulic hubs, and a set of u-joint shafts in the deal.

Somewhere I've got the info written down about the planetaries,I'll dig it up and add it when I find it.
 
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