[a1racer]

Figured this goes here because it's not hardcore enough for the xj section or the general 4x4.

Ok so I've been looking into the 5.13 and 5.38 gears for these axles. Both gear sets use the same pinion tooth count ( guessing the 5.38 may be slightly smaller diameter pinion ? ) but different ring tooth counts. Is there any significant drawbacks to the 5.38's compared to the 5.13's

This will be going on a jeep xj 4.0 aw4 np231 ( dana 300 in the future ) will be running a 37 military tire but with plans of going 40" in the future so the 5.38 would be a more desirable range but if its weaker then a 5.13 it's not much of a rotational difference.

 

[sjracer]

I think either one is going to be the same strength wise, in my opinion the pinion size is the major determining factor. the less number of teeth on the pinion the less number of teeth in contact with the ring as its turning. 8 teeth seems to be the magic number. an extreme opposite example would be a 2:73 gearset for a 12 bolt, 15 teeth. look at the pinon on that, it's huge. here's a pic

also, another factor is pinion deflection - that is how much the pinion moves up/down as torque is applied. this is where good quality gears pays off, they can handle a little deflection without breaking.

one tooth on the ring one way or another isn't probably going to affect it much at all, the main thing is shock loading.

 

[a1racer]

I've been looking at getting the G2 series has a 10 year warranty double lapped and shot peened. And they are about 100 less a set then yukon for the setup I'm running.

I've never used g2 before so if anybody has any advice on that front or if I should save for the yukon's or maybe go motive. Trying to stay away from budget sets or secondary runs that didn't meet specs for other brands.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Georgia boy '88]

I've been looking at getting the G2 series has a 10 year warranty double lapped and shot peened. And they are about 100 less a set then yukon for the setup I'm running.

I've never used g2 before so if anybody has any advice on that front or if I should save for the yukon' sorry maybe go motive. Trying to stay away from budget sets or secondary runs that didn't meet specs for other brands.

Thanks for the help.

I run a G2 set in my 10.5 and know several others running G2 without issues. They seem to be a good buy.

As for 5.13 or 5.38 with a 4.0 pushing it. I'm running 5.13's with 39.5's, 231, and a tired old 4.0 (250,000 mi). There have been a couple of times I had the rig bound up and was wishing a had more gear or more power.

More gear will also help keep that 300 you plan to swap in, alive.

 

[Curbkrawler]

I run 5.13's with 42's and wish I had more gear sometimes. I'd go with the 5.38's personally. Be prepared to do a little grinding on the pinion support in the 14 bolt with either of those gears.

 

[a1racer]

Thanks for the advice. And glad to hear the g2's are a good setup

I run 5.13's with 42's and wish I had more gear sometimes. I'd go with the 5.38's personally. Be prepared to do a little grinding on the pinion support in the 14 bolt with either of those gears.

Can you explain this in a little more detail please as I plan on doing the gears myself so any advice will help me greatly as I've never done gears before.

 

[sjracer]

Thanks for the advice. And glad to hear the g2's are a good setup



Can you explain this in a little more detail please as I plan on doing the gears myself so any advice will help me greatly as I've never done gears before.

if that's the case you may want to have someone set them up for you. gears are a kind of fuzzy logic, and getting them set up right the first time having never done them before and not having someone there to guide you can be kind of daunting, not to mention the special tools needed to do it right.

 

[a1racer]

I'm pretty set on at least trying it myself as I'm a diy dude and cheap. Guess if i get in over my head i can always take the axles to my local 4x4 shop. But id like to give it a try myself before I spend the cash and labor rates on that.

The 14 bolt is supposed to be a pretty easy setup as long as you get the backlash dialed in. The 60 on the other hand I will probable pay to have setup as I don't have the bearing pullers case spreader and other tools needed.

But then again I have a fairly competent machine shop buddy that can help with some of that stuff providing he has any free time between paying jobs.


Edit* I searched and seems the 3rd pinion bearing support may have to be ground down a tad to prevent the ring gear making contact with it. Seems some do and some don't may be a difference in the years.

 

[sjracer]

I'm pretty set on at least trying it myself as I'm a diy dude and cheap. Guess if i get in over my head i can always take the axles to my local 4x4 shop. But id like to give it a try myself before I spend the cash and labor rates on that.

The 14 bolt is supposed to be a pretty easy setup as long as you get the backlash dialed in. The 60 on the other hand I will probable pay to have setup as I don't have the bearing pullers case spreader and other tools needed.

But then again I have a fairly competent machine shop buddy that can help with some of that stuff providing he has any free time between paying jobs.

actually, to me the front 60 is easier to set up try it first, especially if the diff is out of the vehicle. get new axle seals for it from PartsMike. they have the correct ones that make putting the axle back in a snap. also, it being a front diff if you don't get it perfect then its very unlikely you will hear any noise since more than likely you'll only be engaging it at low speed. you don't need a case spreader, just set up the diff carrier to zero lash and then tap in a thick shim on the side that would decrease backlash. you probably wont need any bearings, just a setup kit (shims and a seal), and someone to press the old bearing off the old pinion and onto the new one. if you were giving any consideration to an ARB or other such diff now is the time, the carrier is very heavy and getting it installed when the diff is mounted on the truck is difficult.

 

[a1racer]

Yeah plan is eaton e locker in the front and either Detroit or arb rear. Probably Detroit cause its half the price and the jeep won't see a lot of street driving maybe 40% street to the trails around town the rest trail use.

I've rear up on the Detroit and its handling when on the street and it sounds similar to a lunchbox handling just more predictable. Arb would be nice in the rear but I'm on a tight budget and its double the price of the detroit.

 

[Subybaja]

A couple useful threads:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gene...antz-engineering-advanced-masters-course.html

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/1707402-best-r-p-manufacturer-brand.html

I've been debating selectable/auto lockers, and decided that an extra $500 is worth it in the long run. 5 years from now, will you be happy to have saved that money? Kinda like saving the money and using an open carrier... Just my opinion.

 

[a1racer]

Will read more into those two threads after work. The first one seems very helpful for what I'm gonna be doing soon. As for the rear locker will have to just see what I can scratch together when i purchase it.

Front is 100% gonna be the e locker just because I like to be different and electric seems easier to deal with then potential air leaks and trying to track and repair on the trail. To bad there isn't more options for the 14bolt a e locker would be awesome but I guess I could always spool it and be done with it.

 

[sjracer]

Yeah plan is eaton e locker in the front and either Detroit or arb rear. Probably Detroit cause its half the price and the jeep won't see a lot of street driving maybe 40% street to the trails around town the rest trail use.

I've rear up on the Detroit and its handling when on the street and it sounds similar to a lunchbox handling just more predictable. Arb would be nice in the rear but I'm on a tight budget and its double the price of the detroit.

get a factory Detroit for the 14 bolt, they operate very smoothly. I only hear mine every great once in a while. very strong also, and usually not to expensive as they were a factory piece. I've also heard good things about lunchbox Detroit lockers for 14 bolts.

selectable in front, trust me, if you run a non-selectable in the front you will more than likely regret it. not being able to turn in the snow/mud is one good reason, being able to turn your short WB truck on the trail easier is the other. or leave it as a stock open diff for now, invest in some good 35 spline axle shafts as the factory dana60 outer stub shafts suck.

 

[Subybaja]

Front is 100% gonna be the e locker just because I like to be different and electric seems easier to deal with then potential air leaks and trying to track and repair on the trail.

:laughing: Insert "OX" and "cable" and I'm there!

To bad there isn't more options for the 14bolt a e locker would be awesome but I guess I could always spool it and be done with it.

You didn't say intended use, but if it's street at all, forget this! DSPO Lincoln-locked my Sterling, and I hate it in a DD. It shudders and scrapes and screeches, and grinds up tires (even long-wearing military 37s!).

On a trail/trailered rig I guess that wouldn't matter.

 

[a1racer]

Lot of very useful info thanks guys. Hopefully this will be useful to others as well looking to do what I'm planing.

:laughing: Insert "OX" and "cable" and I'm there!



You didn't say intended use, but if it's street at all, forget this! DSPO Lincoln-locked my Sterling, and I hate it in a DD. It shudders and scrapes and screeches, and grinds up tires (even long-wearing military 37s!).

On a trail/trailered rig I guess that wouldn't matter.

Will deff have some street use but 40/60 street trail use is intended build usage. May just have to save for the rear arb just means will take a little longer to get the parts ordered amassed.

 

[Curbkrawler]

A lot of great info on this site. The biggest thing that you need setting up gears yourself is patience... Get all your parts and tools together, print out the Billavista articles and take your time. I never set a gear up in my life and I did the aforementioned with no problems...

I think setting up the 14 bolt is far easier than the 60... The only shims you have to fool with are the pinion. You are correct that you have to clearance the support so the ring gear doesn't come into contact with it.

I'm a selectable locker guy. I run ARB's in my 60/14 and would have nothing else. Detroits are great, but I just don't care for them in a short wheelbase, especially if it sees some street duty (just my opinion)...

Good luck and dont hesitate to ask for help if you run into problems!

 

[a1racer]

Ordered my eaton elocker rear arb gears and install kits yesterday. Should be in sometime mid next week. Got a deal to good to pass up through a member thats a vender on here for a 4th of July sale deal. Will try and setup the 14bolt sometime next week. I got a shave kit coming for it and a machine shop that can help me with the shave in the next 1-2 weeks. So figured it would be best to setup the gears and locker before shaving the gears and axle housing so I can get a proper gear mesh.

Front will most likely be done by a local axle builder unless I can find a clam shell bearing puller or get the old bearings machined as setup bearings so I'm not pulling and reinstalling bearings to add or replace shims.

Should be a interesting and learning experience for me.

 

[rokk99]

Did you go 5.38? I would recommend it for sure. I ran 5.13 on 37's in a 5.2 grand cherokee and wished it had 5.38 instead.

 

[a1racer]

Yeah I went 5.38 both the 5.38 and 5.13 had the same pinion tooth count so I figured there shouldn't be any strength difference between the two. Just waiting on the lockers and 14 bolt shave kit to arrive then some work can start on the axles.